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Jack Hayden	Posted - 2003.09.14 15:22:00 - [31] Quote: This seems to be a bit overblown. From the understanding I received, if a change was implemented it will only be to remove the constant and frequent supply of pirates to a single area. This would then force the hunters to move around a bit in the different belts to find other targets. It doesn’t sound like a drastic change of massive proportions to disrupt game play as we know it. I mean heck, I imagine even miners have to move around once in a while to find new asteroids. Actually miners have no great need to move around alot. Chain-spawning is the hunters way of not having to move around alot, this is also what brings the ISK income on par with miners. Remove chain-spawning and hunting will decrease in profit. But hey, I'm all for it if asteroids is scattered so much a miner has to move around as much too. á "Spelling and grammatical errors are placed solely to test your abilities as a proofreader. All prices include 25% VAT."
Luc Picard	Posted - 2003.09.14 15:55:00 - [32] a cargo scanner can be useful sometimes
Darth Maul	Posted - 2003.09.14 16:52:00 - [33] Quote: NPC farming is a science of it's own. It is far riskier then mining, contrary to what some ill percieved individual stated up in this thread. And your always on the consol working your ship. There is no break, no slight afk - constant work. You can make just as much money mining / manufacturing or trading. It is just another option to make money in EvE. It is an option that was put in place to give bounty hunters a stable income who do not have time to mine, trade, or manufacture do to their skill tree being tailored to ship operations and combat. You can be assured if CCP fubars this one a lot of ppl will simply quit. Consider it killing "mobs" in other persistant games for exp. If anything they need to improve upon npc hunting. Exactly.. if they take chain spawning out 2 things are guaranteed to happen. 1) All those npc hunters will start killing carebears and indys instead 2)Then they will quit. Simple as that, since if they wanted to be popping indys all long with their millions of combat related skill points they would have been doing so allready.. but this change will force them to it. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there just like me.. I have a little over 2.8 million SP.. with mining/refining/industry/science @ lvl 1.. so if they make NPC hunting any less viable than it allready is, you can use your imagination to figure out where I'll start getting my income.. since it sure as hell won't be mining. Also the flip side of gimping spawns will be it makes mining deep space a no risk enterprise. You roll in, kill the initial wave, then mine bistot in peace for 30-45 minutes? Yeah right.
loci	Posted - 2003.09.15 00:15:00 - [34] we hunters will just have to up our rare item prices
Don Ramere	Posted - 2003.09.15 06:31:00 - [35] Edited by: Don Ramere on 15/09/2003 06:32:19 Edited by: Don Ramere on 15/09/2003 06:31:29 Edited by: Don Ramere on 15/09/2003 06:31:12 Ok forgive me for being a little naive here (this from a dedicated miner) but... Is farming not killing the last pirate in belt so that other pirate ships will continue to spawn in the same belt? Allowing you to keep killing them without waiting for respawn or hunting another belt? If so doesn't this strike you as rather odd behaviour from the pirates point of view? Picture it - RedBeard the Pirate"Three of our buddies just got wasted in Belt III, Terry's still alive, calling for help!" Nasty Jack the Pirate "Lets warp in and help him then" RedBeard and Jack arrive. Terry gets blown up followed by the death of Jack. Redbeard makes a stand but is getting slowly worn down. Then the attack, for some reason, relents. He radios his teammates back at base. Does he choose option 1 or option 2 from the following? 1 - "Guys we got some trouble in Belt III, they took Terry and his mates. They got Redbeard and I'm going down. Why don't you send a few guys to hassle them ineffectively for a few seconds only to die in exactly the same way? Then the lone survivor can ask for more fools to come and die?" or 2 - "Guys we got some trouble in Belt III, they took Terry and his mates. They got Redbeard and I'm going down. There's no way we can take 'em. They've got better ships and better guns. Steer clear of Belt III!" Hehe, Just an outsiders viewpoint, and I am just taking the micky here, not falling on either side of the fence --- The Universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.
DJvGalen	Posted - 2003.09.15 13:01:00 - [36] I am both a miner and a fighter, I sometimes also go farming but I don't really do it for the money. For me it's more for fun, I'd rather see intelligent pirates then a constant stream of stupid pirates charging into my battleship and not even do some serious damage. It's really hard to find an alternative though, if you look at how pirates (bandits) behave in freelancer then you could say that also has a variant of the permaspawn. I'd prefer npc pirates to be more like they were in Freelancer. Sometimes you found a npc convoy consisting of a Mule (freighter) protected by 8 fighter ships, the fun part was to scan AND take down the Mule before it escaped while it's escorts would keep you occupied. On other occasions you'd find tons and tons of pirates near pirate bases. And there were offcourse the pirates that disrupted your tradelane and raiding pirate groups that attacked npc convoys. Freelancer also had the missions you could take, destroy pirates, destroy pirate base, some people even hacked the game to include Battleship missions. I would much rather see more intelligent and stronger npc pirates who are more rewarding to destroy and drop a single good item then the current system where you kill hundreds of npc pirates and are left with mostly junk. I hope sometime in the future we will see NPC pirate convoys moving through below 0.5 systems, that would be so much fun ------------------------------------------------ CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon.
Bry I'onak	Posted - 2003.09.15 13:36:00 - [37] Edited by: Bry I'onak on 15/09/2003 14:13:51 There MUST be better solutions than simply remove chaining. I don't want to jump around between crowded belts just to get my hands on a few pirates with crappy loot. If it's the sheer amount of cans flying around, do it another way: make fighting vs. npcs more challenging, pay better bounty and let them drop loot only occasionally, but with better loot and THEN remove the chaining and i guess all will be fine .
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2003.09.15 13:51:00 - [38] Personal I think chain spawning needs to go. People demand that the loot tables are fixed, but I don't think this will happen untill the bug that allows chain spawns has been fixed, as farming NPC is already too profitable (which is probably why most people have posted to keep it). I'd prefer to hunt harder to find and kill pirates for better loot, that chaining hundreds for the bounty.
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2003.09.15 14:24:00 - [39] Only thing that can be found on patch notes up until now is this: "Fixed a possible npc exploit. Entities who were in combat with someone and had not managed to activate their weapon reconsidered their situation and because they had no other targets and were directed to ignore the last one they had, went idle and ignored their old target." This doesn't mean you won't be able to chain kill... this means you won't be able to get one of the pirates to unlock and stand idly looking at you while you chain the rest. Luckily i never had problems having a "leech" as i call it on me while i was waiting for respawns. Stats of turrets is getting better = npc do more damage. What is needed are BS pirates. No official word about eliminating chainkilling everything else is a rumour. Pain is meant to be felt
Kaleb	Posted - 2003.09.15 18:07:00 - [40] There's a skill called "Salvage Drones" on Chaos atm as well. I would assume salvage drones could be used for cleaning cargo containers.
D'Boss	Posted - 2003.09.15 19:44:00 - [41] If they take out chainkilling npc's there just won't be anything fun left in the game. The best solution that someone mentioned is make pirate cans rare, but when you do get a can it is guaranteed to have good stuff in it.
McWatt	Posted - 2003.09.15 20:18:00 - [42] Edited by: McWatt on 15/09/2003 20:19:42 yeah, there could be: * intersting combinations of pirates/indys to work on. * pirate stations that keep spawning (dangerous) guys till you silence them. * dangerous pirates closing certain gates to the unprepared. * spreading of pirates/ fights between differen factions. * moving pirates to disturb those afk miners occasionally. * famous (named) pirates to pop up randomely. * or at least pirates who are clever enough to stop closing in, if their hull is down to 2%. * oh, and how about a few of the guys carrying long range weapons, as players tend to do??? * or better reinforcements arriving every time? * pirate cans to dissapear after a few minutes, to keep you busy and draw you close? * just forgot to mention that NPC- pirates are incredibly interesting/clever if you compare them to the common convoy. omg. just spicying them all up, wont realy change it. neither will an end to chain spawn. but hey, there s still mining...
Saelek	Posted - 2003.09.15 20:28:00 - [43] Well, who cares if they screw farming npcs, well just have to wait till jumpdrives and go farm GMs in polaris ey .....wonders if theyll have bountys
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2003.09.16 00:40:00 - [44] Chaining isnt exactly all that fun nor give great profit. You have to wad through a lot of basic crap before you even find a gadget that is worth keeping. Although the crap makes fine ammo once recycled and minerals put into production. Like there isnt all that much exciting things to do in EVE to be honest. Mining get boring awfull fast. I didnt even know about chaining and how it worked before recent. I dont see any wrong in people doing it if they want too, its broing as hell after a while and the reward isnt all that great. The loot tables need to be fixed though. Like its a major bummer to nuke a cruiser and find basic crap when you find the same basic crap on a low level pirate. I would like more challenges to the game, but the rewards should be worth it too. Who want to pitch into a fight where the reward is a reinforced bulkhead and some basic nano stabilizer. Or nail a marauder and find 1 heavy missile as reward, duh... playing out of boredome of nothing else better to do Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Kathea Borian	Posted - 2003.09.16 03:31:00 - [45] I have a small suggestion...What if no new pirates spawned untill the first wave was killed and the cans gone or instead of the cans gone they would only spawn after all pirates dead just cut down the wait time. And if miners complain well if you can handle one spawn every 5-10 mins then you could do it every 4-5 or leave the last pirate picking on you. Or pirates spawn only after all pirates dead and 2-3 minutes after last can gone or the normal 5-10+ spawn with the containers floating...Would give incentive to clean up the cans to get the spawn again fast.
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.09.16 05:30:00 - [46] How about leave it the way it is or just improve upon it? Lots of stupid suggestions. EvE is already bad enough as is. Don't f*ck it up anymore. "There's a skill called "Salvage Drones" on Chaos atm as well. I would assume salvage drones could be used for cleaning cargo containers" This would be a great idea. The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
3L3KTR4	Posted - 2003.09.16 05:42:00 - [47] I'd prefer to hunt harder to find and kill pirates for better loot, that chaining hundreds for the bounty. Its not just the bounty its also fun IMO. U also find better loot that way cause u killed a bunch. And its saves time rather than jumping field to field Plus u do make a little extra isk on the side while having fun
HC JT	Posted - 2003.09.16 07:27:00 - [48] Pirates are, not matter how you look at it an infinite money pool. If they would let the NPC farming go on, it will just screw up the whole PvP thing. I mean EVE is supose to be a PVP game, with PVP action. Whats the point in producing stuff, like ammo, and try to sell that on the market. There is none, its easier to go and shoot some pirates. Shooting NPC pirates is indeed a very fun part of the game. But just like mining, a belt can be cleared out. and it shouldnt be easy money. I suggest less and harder pirates would do the trick. If there are 3 very difficult pirates in a belt wich wont respawn. Nobody would complain, because its more challanging, and less cluttering of the server.
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.09.16 13:16:00 - [49] Once again a lot of ppl talking on this subject when the have no fcking clue what they are talking about. Those talking about chaining and how easy or bad it is obviously don't do it or can not do it successfully. Go *** on someone elses parade. Just because you have failed at something, don't try and bring those who have worked hard to make something work be destroyed. Challenge: those who say it is so easy and the money flows like water show me what you can do. I will glady watch you try and see what you can do per hour. Until then, just stfu until you get a clue on this subject. Or shall I get started the topics of macro mining and trade runs? Ever here of "mob camps" before? They are common in every single mmog on the market. EvE has them for bounty hunters too. The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
Jarjar	Posted - 2003.09.16 16:27:00 - [50] Edited by: Jarjar on 16/09/2003 16:27:40 How ARE you supposed to make money in a PvP game anyways? I can only see one way, to be a pirate (commonly known as PK, since most of the pirates only PK and nothing else). Let chaining stay, or I'll just use the regular threat: To cancel my subscription.
Admiral Tarkin	Posted - 2003.09.17 20:25:00 - [51] There's a question of balance that needs to be considered. There have to be multiple different professions that are roughly equivalent in terms of effort/reward. I ain't gonna mine, period. I don't want to sell/manufacture stuff. I'm a killer at heart and want to fight for my money. I'm not particularly drawn to or away from PvP. Chaining is fun and profitable, so I do that. If the chain respawns are removed, I'm not going to spend my time jumping from belt to belt (unless somehow the loot/bounty is jacked up so I can still make good money for my time). Otherwise, I'll still be killing ships. They just won't be NPCs >). Mining will get a lot more "costly" if that happens. Admiral Tarkin -- Eve's First Official Spamfighter -- You want to RP a spammer, well I'm RPing -- a guy who hates spam. Happy now?
Paul Dubois	Posted - 2003.09.17 23:55:00 - [52] Lets see, so far every change that has been brought in has increased the time taken to kill npc pirates or reduce what profit you make from it. Stopping the small/medium guns skills from stacking, and the surgical strike changes I can understand. Even dropping the rof bonus on the pirate drop weapons in the recent patch I can cope with. But as well as this they have dropped the effectiveness of shield hardeners, dropped the effectiveness of cpu's, removed the cruiser npc pirates from anywhere close to my home base, altered the loot tables to not only make the good items incredibly difficult to get but reduced the number of items the cruisers drop; etc etc etc. Many of the changes I can understand, even agree with but each time it seems to make it harder for me to make money by killing npc pirates. I don't have a battleship, and Im not in a big corp. I can't farm npc cruisers the way some can with a couple of battleships and a cargo ship lifting the loot occassionaly, its usually me on my own or maybe a couple of corp members at most, all in cruisers. I could fight frigates but theres not a lot of challenge in that, besides I need improved cruiser items and you tend to only get what I need off of npc cruisers. Even finding areas where higher level cruisers spawn can be a problem, I tend to use 650s on my Rupture, but because of the way the loot table is done, only Maurauders drop the Scout 650s; and there are limited numbers of places where I can find them, and most are well known and well hunted already. As it stands I don't think I can make as much money as somone who mines or manufactures for a living, and in a cruiser theres a lot more risk, I can and have lost ships and if the ship is equipped with pirate drop items that can be a helluva loss. At the moment there is nothing better for the battleship owners to fight, so I can understand them farming cruisers, and for them its probably more profitable and less risky than for me. But you stop the farming, and in the areas I hunt it will make things harder for me especially as I can't compete with the battleships; heck if theres a limited spawn I'll probably be warned off by any battleships in the area. You want to do it for technical reasons to reduce to item count etc fine, but if youre going to do it, you had better do it in such a way that those of use who make a living at it can still get a income from it comparable to the other ways of making money. Just don't forget that there are plenty of us who don't own battleships, and who arent in large corporations - I get the impression that too much of the balancing that goes on is based around battleship. To the fellow players, apologies for the rambling nature of the post, but I'm just browned off with the game tonight.

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