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Dawn Lewis
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.31 00:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello
I have some questions from the more experienced players here
I started playing a number of months ago and trained for a Tengu to run missions to raise some isk for PvP. Then heavy missiles were nerfed.
I decided to start a second character and ive trained for 50 days to get a Dommi level V and now Sentries have been nerfed.
Questions
1. Does this stuff annoy regular players or does it happen all of the time?
2. These training times are huge and they are made redundant at a moments notice
3. Is there a place that i can go where CCP will tell us what ships wont be nerfed so that im not worried about it being nerfed.
4. How can anyone train for a cap ship that takes years of training when it can be nerfed on a whim
5. Lastly, Are there any ships i can train for that are going to remain stable for the time being
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Actaeon Versaea
Azaph Incorporated
10
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Posted - 2014.01.31 01:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dawn Lewis wrote:Hello
I have some questions from the more experienced players here
I started playing a number of months ago and trained for a Tengu to run missions to raise some isk for PvP. Then heavy missiles were nerfed.
I decided to start a second character and ive trained for 50 days to get a Dommi level V and now Sentries have been nerfed.
Questions
1. Does this stuff annoy regular players or does it happen all of the time?
2. These training times are huge and they are made redundant at a moments notice
3. Is there a place that i can go where CCP will tell us what ships wont be nerfed so that im not worried about it being nerfed.
4. How can anyone train for a cap ship that takes years of training when it can be nerfed on a whim
5. Lastly, Are there any ships i can train for that are going to remain stable for the time being
1. It's not too commobn, but it's not in frequent either, you just arrived in the mids of a big two year long reballance everything phase... A bit annoying, but once you specialize (Skill Wise) in a particular weapon system, it's just a case of finding out how it should be used now... often when they nerf, it means the devs intended it to be working in a diffrent manner, and the rebalanced makes the new intended mode of operation effective. Just experiment with the diffrent types of drone, and tactics for them.
2. Welcome to EVE. Specialise, not generalize, then find how to work with changes.
3. Err.. Keep up with the deb blogs: community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs. You'll get news sometime up too 18 months in advance (Command Ship Reballance), but it's subject to chance, and not rigid in terms of time, but the CCP devs seem to have a sence of humor, particularly in the blogs.
4. Easy. Insert Racial Capital Ships V into training que. Wait 6 months. Capitals are simply needed, even nerfed, they are the only ships that can eaisially counter other capitals.
5. By now most of the ships have already been reballanced. We're just comming out of the end of the big 2 year reballance, but there will be constant tweeking of all ships, and the occasional "To hell with this, It isn't working!" Where they compleatly remake a particular ship with little notice. Most subcapitals are as good as any, now. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1819
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Posted - 2014.01.31 02:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
i'd like to add that both the tengu and the dominix are still anything but useless in missions, even after the nerfs.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
2695
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Posted - 2014.01.31 03:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
You expect to train for one ship that will be "best" and stay "best" for a long time. That's not how EVE works, in fact that's not how most MMOs work.
Instead train for something that's useful. Patch changes almost never turn a useful ship into something useless. And indeed both the Tengu and Dominix are still good in their roles - "worse than yesterday" doesn't mean "bad". Flexibility and adaptability is the key - even if you're not directly aiming to be nerf-proof, eventually you will want to have multiple ships to fill different roles anyway.
You didn't need to train a second character to open up more ships. In fact that's wasting your time as you have to train all the common skills (navigation, social, engineering, etc.) once again. If you stick to one character and get these core skills up high, retraining for a different race/weapon system will only take days, maybe a few weeks tops.
To learn about the upcoming changes, follow the features & ideas forum and read the dev blogs. Virtually 100% of any patch changes are announced weeks, sometimes months in advance. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
678
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Posted - 2014.01.31 03:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
The dominix "nerf" has almost no practical effect save that you'll have to occasionally flip the omni(s) from optimal to tracking and vice versa.
Mission NPCs that orbit at 50km do not have signatures that a garde II can easily miss, so it doesn't need the tracking at long ranges. (small signature NPCs located 50km away will simply approach the dominix directly and cancel out their small sig by making themselves easily tracked).
Unless of course you MJD your dominix and try fight from 100, but as a PVE player that was always suboptimal anyway. |
Karle Tabot
State War Academy Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2014.01.31 03:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is one of several alts, but I am not experienced enough yet to be called a veteran. I just mention that so you can weigh my comments accordingly.
1. All this rebalancing seemed to start as I was starting this game, and has continued for the duration of my time here. There were a few changes that hurt me I felt, and even though I realize I am only impersonal "collateral damage", that knowledge does nothing to reduce the impact on my personal efforts to intelligently plan my skill training. I do not know how regular these "help some - hurt some" changes have been, having only been here a relatively short time, but I would say it is one of the most disappointing things about the development philosophy to me, since it of necessity rewards some, penalizes some and worst of all, impacts new players the hardest.
2. See #1. I am not happy about them, but it has not been quite as dramatic as that, but it seems there is a kind of "we cannot be bothered by how it adversely affects new players" attitude. I say this because proportionately, any such changes are just going to have far greater impacts in my opinion on new players with less skill points, than on older players with more. I see some efforts to attract new players, but by no stretch of the imagination would I call this a new player friendly game, and these type changes are a large part of the reason why.
3. See Developer Blogs, Patch Notes and Comments in forums about upcoming changes. They do seem to try hard to give advance notice.
4. In line with the comments I have made already, actually the impact on training capitals is not going to be nearly as dramatic as the changes in earlier ships you train for, simply because in my opinion, the more training time/experience in the game you have, the less dramatically these type changes hit your personal characters.
5. I would say NO. Again, in my opinion, based on the changes already made, you are not going to be able to safely assume the time you spend training for virtually anything is not going to be impacted by future changes in such a way as to hurt your efforts to plan. |
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
196
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Posted - 2014.01.31 06:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dawn Lewis wrote:5. Lastly, Are there any ships i can train for that are going to remain stable for the time being Ibis?
It's the fallout from our WiS rejection, we wanted iteration. So they wooped out the huge nerf hammer and went to work. Even ripped out the jukebox. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned..
If you can already make decent ISK, maybe get into frigate training? That's where I am now anyway, training some more T2's etc. I can train a little more into my T3, don't seem worth it now. I can hone my exploration skills a little more, but to play mini-games? I've got HM's to spec-IV, the dust on those missiles say don't go for V. Trained up Comorant for fun, even that was nerfed beyond the rest. And much more, so no I can't give you an idea on with what they won't nerf next other than what has already been "reiterated". Though I thought I remembered people were more upset with un-addressed bugs festering for years rather than changing everything so much. Don't forget what they did with SWG, made it an utterly unplayable and unfun game in a single patch... that no one asked for. GÇö+¬GÇö |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1099
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 07:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dawn Lewis wrote:I started playing a number of months ago and trained for a Tengu to run missions to raise some isk for PvP. Then heavy missiles were nerfed.
I decided to start a second character and ive trained for 50 days to get a Dommi level V and now Sentries have been nerfed.
Don't train for the most OP FOTM ship, and expect them to stay like that forever, both the tengu and domi are still viable ships.
Stop training for FOTM ships and start training for one racial faction, like a normal eve player. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
286
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Posted - 2014.01.31 08:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
They use to do more of this with characters.
Be glad it's just the ships now.
When I started my first toon it was before remaps and the learning skill changes.
I made a new toon and max sp trained it for about 1 month. Then the remaps came out. (( I mean max! Nothing but learning skills. Toon never used due to only training learning skills. 500 mil in implants ))
Over night I'd get more sp in the long run having the extra remaps needed if I just trashed my toon and started over. That was a tough pill. CCP will give you gifts and other times ruin what you have worked at.
Expect a cycle of about 1 to 1 on how often it goes your way or not, but make no mistake the times it doesn't go your wary will suck a lot worse then the times you gain a little something.
They are professional at not thinking things through and letting players fall through the cracks. |
Gimme more Cynos
Du nervst geh sterben
130
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Posted - 2014.01.31 08:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stick with your domi. It's still a good mission boat, just needs a bit more attention now.
As for the Tengu: HAM-Tengu is still a very very good boat. It only needs a bit more attention without overnerfed HM's.
TLDR: your skills aren't useless. You just have to use them different now. |
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voetius
BITB Support Services
185
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Posted - 2014.01.31 09:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Domi is still awesome and I wouldn't call a 900 DPS HAM Tengu that can AB around at 600 m/s "nerfed" :)) |
Treborr MintingtonJr
Quantum Reality R n D Spaceship Samurai
158
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Funny enough the nerfed ships are the ones that are more likely to be the most "stable"
I would like to agree with all the people who have stated that the Domi and Tengu are still awesome.
If you want, why not get a Domi navy issue or train for a Sin or Kronos? |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
118
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Posted - 2014.01.31 15:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
The domi was a useful ship before Omnis and Drone Damage Amps. Sentries needed to require some kind of thought to utilize and it makes sense that modules follow other weapon systems (like guns).
It is a fantastic and versatile haul.
On Nerfs: Yes, if a ship or module becomes heavily utilized because it out classes all other ships and modules in multiple areas it will be changed to make the other ships viable. Having said that, CCP is doing a pretty decent job of giving ships niches where they would never have seen the light of day two years ago. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
64
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Posted - 2014.01.31 15:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stop thinking in terms of best and just choose a weapon system and hull. I specced for caldari mission ships ages ago. While I've been able to take advantage of the old drake and the hm tengu (who doesn't love unprobable hm tengus?), I've also always had the good ole raven to fall back on. But the tengu and drake are still there and still good, just not uber (omg i miss unprobable hm tengu).
Over the 5 years I've played only the hybrid was ever total trash and that has changed. I never went primary with the drones because i never liked the idea of having a weapon system the enemy could kill. Every other weapon system has plenty of good hulls associated with it. If all you're doing is missioning, you'll never go wrong with missiles. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1491
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Posted - 2014.01.31 16:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dawn Lewis wrote: I started playing a number of months ago and trained for a Tengu to run missions to raise some isk for PvP. Then heavy missiles were nerfed.
I decided to start a second character and ive trained for 50 days to get a Dommi level V and now Sentries have been nerfed.
Sorry to say, but this was probably a stupid thing to do if it was on your main account. You generally don't want two "mains" on your main account. You should have trained your main for both so you're not duplicating core skills.
HML Tengu can clear every level 4 easily. It does require some specialization to squeeze every last drop of damage out, but its a perfectly serviceable ship.
The Dominix is still excellent, especially if you have the ship skill at level 5.
1. Does this stuff annoy regular players or does it happen all of the time? Maybe once every 6 months or once per year.
2. These training times are huge and they are made redundant at a moments notice They are not made redundant. Since the HML nerf, the tengu is not the fastest mission runner (its a cruiser after all), but it remains an excellent ship that can uniquely handle virtually any kind of PVE. I use my HML tengu virtually every day, and the HML nerf didn't change that one bit. The HML nerf hurt other HML platforms more significantly than the tengu. Similarly the omni nerf hurts non-ranged bonus ships much harder than it hits the ishtar and dominix. The dominix is still excellent.
3. Is there a place that i can go where CCP will tell us what ships wont be nerfed so that im not worried about it being nerfed. No. You need to have a very broad familiarity with many aspects of the game, and perhaps have your pulse on the various PVE and PVP metagames. Wasting time on the forums is one way to achieve this. The HML nerf and the general drone nerf were not really any surprise to a lot of people.
4. How can anyone train for a cap ship that takes years of training when it can be nerfed on a whim People arrive at capital ships through many different routes. Some train specialized characters, some purchase specialized characters. Others like me don't train for capital ships until 90% of the pre-reqs are already done. Many capital ships have uses that simply won't be nerfed, either because those uses are non-combat (carriers, freighters, JFs), or because their core role is well defined and won't be nerfed ( dreads will always be good at shooting poses).
5. Lastly, Are there any ships i can train for that are going to remain stable for the time being Anything that was recently nerfed or isn't Flavor of the Month ie most things. The true answer is to invest more SP on general core skills and less on specific ships. However by the same token its never a bad idea to invest more SP in your moneymaker. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Kontrapshun
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2014.02.01 01:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
You know, the Tengu with Heavies is still a pretty good runner.
I have two Tengu maxed mission runners and they both just shoot standard Scourge and get 450DPS each out to 94k and one shot most frigs. They tank amazing and you can watch a movie if you want (often do) and your character hasn't been scratched.
Of course I dual box them.
The grass is still green. |
Gimme more Cynos
Du nervst geh sterben
132
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 17:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kontrapshun wrote:You know, the Tengu with Heavies is still a pretty good runner.
I have two Tengu maxed mission runners and they both just shoot standard Scourge and get 450DPS each out to 94k and one shot most frigs. They tank amazing and you can watch a movie if you want (often do) and your character hasn't been scratched.
Of course I dual box them.
The grass is still green.
Prolly not the best post to highlight the tengu..
450 dps is weak.. really. Spend your money on Domis and you'll get so much more out of your chars.. Or train for 2 golems, or 2 rattlers or two of the other battleships.
450 dps is laughable for running missions.. Laughable. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1553
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Posted - 2014.02.03 17:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote: 450 dps is laughable for running missions.. Laughable.
Dunno what's he's smoking but a tengu with 5% hardwires and lvl 5's does 749dps with scourge fury at 70km range. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
66
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Posted - 2014.02.03 17:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
That poster specified plain t1 scourge |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1555
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Posted - 2014.02.03 18:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Qalix wrote:That poster specified plain t1 scourge
As I said, "I dunno what he's smoking." I could tell you the dps of my megathron with 75mm gatling railguns too, but I don't think anyone would be interested in the answer. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
230
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Posted - 2014.02.03 18:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dawn,
Do not chase the flavor of the month. Yes, you should do your research or you will put time/skill into something considered laughable (Caldari Dreadnaught anyone?) but do not go chasing after the flavor of the month (FOTM) or you will suffer in the inevitable nerf.
This applies to all MMORPG, not just Eve. |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
22
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Posted - 2014.02.03 19:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dawn Lewis wrote:Hello
I have some questions from the more experienced players here
I started playing a number of months ago and trained for a Tengu to run missions to raise some isk for PvP. Then heavy missiles were nerfed.
I decided to start a second character and ive trained for 50 days to get a Dommi level V and now Sentries have been nerfed.
Questions
1. Does this stuff annoy regular players or does it happen all of the time?
2. These training times are huge and they are made redundant at a moments notice
3. Is there a place that i can go where CCP will tell us what ships wont be nerfed so that im not worried about it being nerfed.
4. How can anyone train for a cap ship that takes years of training when it can be nerfed on a whim
5. Lastly, Are there any ships i can train for that are going to remain stable for the time being
My best advice is to stop aiming for whichever is considered overpowered at the moment. You'll keep risking nerfs if you only go for FOTM/FOTY. |
Gimme more Cynos
Du nervst geh sterben
132
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 20:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote: 450 dps is laughable for running missions.. Laughable.
Dunno what's he's smoking but a tengu with 5% hardwires and lvl 5's does 749dps with scourge fury at 70km range.
Both proabably tank 1k dps crapstable. Atleast that would be an explanation.
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