| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mark A
   |
Posted - 2003.09.13 17:24:00 -
[1]
A couple of weeks ago I was battling some guy on Chaos, and since I was using a lot of torps he (unavoidably) ended up getting podded after his ship went down. He then announced he'd forgotten to upgrade his clone, and as such was basically screwed until the next mirror.
It's kinda worrying that a similar slip-up on TQ would basically leave your entire character, and all the months invested in training, totally destroyed. There's a good chance many people would just quit the game at this point.
Since people quitting the game is the last thing CCP want, shouldn't there be more of a safety net to this disaster scenario? Its bound to happen to someone, e.g. you get podded and log off in disgust. The next day you purchase a new ship in a nearby system and head over in your ibis, only to get ganked again. Then the realisation dawns (and since you've never been podded before and don't know the drill) you forgot to upgrade yr clone again  .
So perhaps after you get podded you are taken to the Upgrade Clone screen? Or maybe if you try to undock with a clone worth less than your skill points you get a warning? Maybe you automatically buy a good enough clone after getting podded and the cash deducted from yr wallet.
Sure its still a dumb thing to do, but anyone who's read the Darwin Awards threads knows that doing dumb things is not beyond even the most experience players. And is nuking potentially months of invested play time (not to mention subscription $$) something which should happen to anybody ever?
____________________________________
|
Shani
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 18:13:00 -
[2]
good idea...i did that very thing 
got podded for the first time 2 days ago on a haulage trip, no big deal,empty cargo, but once i got my new ship and set off again, it was a good few systems before i got the shock that i had forgot to buy a new clone..
it was a very careful trip back 
|
Darth Tom
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 18:19:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
It's kinda worrying that a similar slip-up on TQ would basically leave your entire character, and all the months invested in training, totally destroyed. There's a good chance many people would just quit the game at this point.
Can't say I agree with this I'm afraid. If someone forgets to reload their gun or their missile launcher during combat, should it be done for them?
If someone places a buy order and forgets to check the price, should the game fix it for them?
It is not the game's responsibility to, basically, manage someone's character for them.
If you forget to buy a new clone when your skill points are above it's level, should the game do it for you? Or remind you?
No. It's up to each player to manager their character.
If people are unable to pay attention and actually play the game, that's their problem.
CCP can't keep on wrapping up the players in cotton wool. There's got to be risk and danger, otherwise there is no excitement.
Cheers,
TOM
|
Arch Aggelos
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 18:27:00 -
[4]
I agree with Darth on this one. Honestly, I feel Death already has too little sting. It's all in losing a ship, even those 19m skill point clones only cost a few mil. No biggie, and no one's even close to those yet. If it were up to me your clone could never cover as many points as you have.
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 19:09:00 -
[5]
... There could probably be a small reminder in the form of evemail from the cloning facility, issued once, the moment number of skill points exceeds capacity of one's current clone.
Something along the lines, "Dear future biomass, our database check indicates your current clone is no longer able to store all the precious knowledge you've accumulated, would you be interested in upgrading it? Love and kisses, can't wait to see you leave more of your isk in one of our offices."
'Tis would make sense as far as game world goes (it's in the best interest of the cloning company to try to sell people the more expensive clones) while still leaving enough room for human error, i think....
|
KIAHicks
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 19:13:00 -
[6]
Edited by: KIAHicks on 13/09/2003 19:17:38
Edited by: KIAHicks on 13/09/2003 19:14:49
Theres death having a sting then theres death making you quit the game. I agree with Mark on this one, I know if I died without a clone in the current system, I would quit. I'd be very unhappy about doing so, because I really enjoy playing eve. But I cannot see myself enjoying starting from scratch.
I don't plan on starting again and having to spend 3 months of real time to get to the position I'm in now.
Ok if you can't afford a clone, or have to buy a cheaper one, then fair is fair, you take your risks. But I bet the majority of players if they ever die without a clone and have been playing more than a few months will quit. Imagine what this will be like after you've been playing 6months to a year!
The examples you quoted are not even in the same ball park as what Mark is talking about.
If you buy something for way too much, its tough, you've lost some credits.
If you forget to reload, you miss a few shots and take a bit of dmg while you reload.
If you forget to bring ammo, you probably die, or have to run away, losing at most some isk for a new ship.
There the sort of things that could hurt you, or make you unhappy for a day or two especially if you lost your ship. But in the end they're not events that would cause you to quit, unlike losing months of work on building up a character.
"If you forget to buy a new clone when your skill points are above it's level, should the game do it for you? Or remind you?"
Well that would depend on how many skill points your going to lose. If your losing a few weeks then no it shouldn't. But if your risking losing months of work I think it should.
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
|
Reverend Mother
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 19:23:00 -
[7]
having the clone screen appear after death makes sense, as thats where you would be after death.
|
Other Minion
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 21:23:00 -
[8]
Ummm Darth and who ever agrees with him are idiots. Really its going to happen to most ppl once. And guess what CCPs player base is small and weak as it is. They can't afford to lose that many players. If ppl just opt to quit when they lose a char with a few million points they are probably gone for good. Heck I would be.
This is why most games with perma-death don't do to well. People player them till they lose their character and rarly ever play again.
|
Luther Pendragon
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 21:48:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 13/09/2003 21:49:11
I agree that the consequencies of forgetting to reload or punching the wrong number in the market are insignificant compared to losing to skills. Players do need some kind of minimal safety net.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Kassik Traggar
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 21:56:00 -
[10]
So Minion, should we just nerf the whole freaking game to make the carebear player base happy?
Im not suggesting that anyone reading this forum is a carebear, simply this. Imagine if you had the power to make CCP change ANY one thing or you'd quit. Imagine if EVERYONE had that power. I think this might be some of the logic being used in these types of arguments.
Bottom line? CCP has a game they want to implement. They have artistic license to do whatever they want/need to make the game fit their idea. If they make changes to the game to suit any player/group who threatens to quit, the game would suck in short order.
STAY STRONG, CCP!
------------------------------------------------
Military Adjutant of
The People's Front of Minmatar
------------------------------------------------
"Remember, I don't know if you're not 'Playing Role'." |
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 22:40:00 -
[11]
I agree with Mark on this. I had a scare (actually a display bug) that showed me as having no skillpoint, and no actual skills. This was 5 minutes after I got podded by concord for an honest mistake.
I wasn't in the right frame of mind to just accept it as a bug. I shut down Eve, and had to go for a walk, I was livid. About 30 minutes later, I had calmed down a bit, and my response was 'if I've lost my SP, I quit'.
Luckily (for you guys) when I logged back in, the bug was gone, and my millions of points were proudly displayed over my huge army of skills.
---
My suggestion (this will be the third time I have posted it) is to work the clones on a percentage system, where *maximum* loss would be 10% (no clone). A good clone would cut this by up to 5% (depending on price/quality). A further 2% could be saved by having genetics lvl5, and another 2% if you have biology lvl 5. But basically, no way to get a 100% clone.
so (stick with me here):
minimal clone + no gen/bio skills = 10% loss
top-end clone + no gen/bio = 5%
top-end clone + gen5 + bio0 = 3% loss
top-end clone + gen5 + bio5 = 1% loss
These figures may not seem much looking at them this way, but If you take my situation into account it goes like this:
me = 3M SP (actually 3,007,000, but let's not split hairs)
10% of that would be 300,000SP (~2 weeks training )
5% would be 150000 (~1 week)
3% would be 90000 (~4 days)
1% would be 30000 (+1 day)
So even with the best clone, I'd still get knocked back a day.
see?
good.
.
|
Kassik Traggar
|
Posted - 2003.09.13 22:49:00 -
[12]
I think maybe something like buying clones in advance? I mean, make cloning sort of like insurance. Of course, you would have to pay for this convenience, perhaps an cumulative 10% (or more) per advance clone.
That kind of gives us the best of both worlds if ya think about it. Yer still ultimately responsible for yer own clone(s), but you can now live through that double-tap with skizzles intact.
------------------------------------------------
Military Adjutant of
The People's Front of Minmatar
------------------------------------------------
"Remember, I don't know if you're not 'Playing Role'." |
Ciel
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 06:01:00 -
[13]
Quote:
... There could probably be a small reminder in the form of evemail from the cloning facility, issued once, the moment number of skill points exceeds capacity of one's current clone.
A splendid suggestion. That, and the idea of being brought to the cloning screen when your character wakes up makes perfect sense. Both changes would fit in seamlessly and one would be hard to argue these as being another set of training wheels.
Thank you to those who paused to think for a moment before spitting "Carebear!" on everyone's shoes.
|
Other Minion
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 06:30:00 -
[14]
Same thing happened to me drunk master. Scared the crap outa me.
And no this would not make it into a carebear hell and I am not a damn carebear. But if you lost all your skills would you keep playing? The truth! I mean I would just switch to antoher game after losing my 3.8 Million skill points.
Maybe CCP could have another option. Say for 40 bucks you could get your character back after some awful mishap, or in EVE probably a bug screwing you over.
|
Rath Amon
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 07:36:00 -
[15]
How about something simple like your skill points displayed in a red font if your clone can't cover them? You'd still need to pay attention but the information would be readily available.
|
Muaddid
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 07:41:00 -
[16]
Gotta agree here, losing months of skill points would make anyone leave, carebear or not.
A simple "Warning, your friendly insurance detected that your clone does not cover your skill points, are you sure you want to undock ?"
message would probably be enough, tho an auto-payment option should also be avaible, where your clone would automaticly upgrade to whichever you need, directly from your wallet with a little supplement of course 
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Bjorn Nilfheim
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 08:56:00 -
[17]
i selfdestructed my pod with a basic clone on chaos. i had about 1.5M skillpoints on chaos at this time, and all i lost was 60k points off of my drones level 5. its not starting from scratch, but it is several days of training.
Admiral of the Forsaken Fleets
Pillar of the Fallen Emperor |
Drutort
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 08:56:00 -
[18]
i vote on a warning or some info... as this is good for user friendly type of deal 
cause you will see someone say nobody ever told me or there was no info about it etc... or who knows what...
puting some info is nothing wrong... and you could click on dont show again LOL
i kind of do like a % system it is some what stupid that clones are cheaper then some of our gear and ships and yet you could lose everything any way?
so why not make it so you cant... cause losing everyting would just be stupid dont you think?
i mean 1 year down the road it would be a lot even with the % system... so why not do something like that?
instead of a system of covering total points...
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Shock
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 10:08:00 -
[19]
I think I like drunken master's idea.
It also feels better to lose percentages of the skills points.
I hope also that CCP will make the pod have some better ejection system where it gets shot away quite a distance from the exploding ship and torpedos going for it.
---
soonÖ |
Aki Ross
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 11:25:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Aki Ross on 14/09/2003 11:26:30
I'll vote for the EVE-Mail reminder and payment idea 
I have eerr, ojections to the "clone screen when you die" idea. Don't take it personally 
1) A Clone is a COPY of you. Body and Brain. How could you be cloned remotely? To be Cloned, DNA samples must be taken and your Brains contents copied.
2) If Podded, you are DEAD. Hate to be the party-****er but a Corpsicle doesn't ring the Station up and ask for Clones.
Somebody get me the Ghostbusters
|
Other Minion
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 11:58:00 -
[21]
I don't know. All those EVE stories the DEVs have provided us with on this site give me the idea that a veteran EVE piolt is more machine then flesh. With all those inplants and electronics to allow them to extrend their lives to a few hundred years inbetween clones.
I wouldn't find it to had to believe a spaced bodies machinical systems could eve-mail its last scan of the players flesh and memory to a station.
LOL, isn't this world of EVE great. Life so cheap.
|
Quiz
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 14:35:00 -
[22]
It would be easy for eve to pop up a message box warning if you are trying to undock from a station with a clone that doesnt cover your skillpoints.
Cant hurt to implement it...
|
Jojin
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 14:49:00 -
[23]
I think if you are revived in a purchased clone, you should receive a notice through EVE mail informing the clone was used and make sure you purchase another. It should be one of those once per death messages.
Having a warning message every time you undock would be annoying if you did not wish to purchase a clone or did not have the funds to purchase an adequate clone.
The player should be responsible for keeping up with the clone as far as quality and adequate skill points. It isnĘt hard to do and unlike insurance on a ship, it is a one time fee until utilized. Add to this the low cost of clones in regards to the skill savings and it should not be much of a problem.
|
Data Loss
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 16:00:00 -
[24]
i dont know but i hope this happens to all of you that disagree with this idea. i hope you have 2.5million skill points and you get podded and forget to buy another upgraded clone and you get podded again. i hope it happens to you soon too. lets see if all you say is true. may VERY BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO YOUR CHARACTER.
to the one that started this topic: Very good topic, and very good idea. a small evemail from your old clone saying, dont forget to reupgrade your clone. simple as that.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 19:48:00 -
[25]
I'm just 100K skill points from having to pay half a million isk per clone 
Just thinking of losing all my SP makes me squirm.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Fencer
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 20:07:00 -
[26]
hum. you had common sense to insure your ship. but not to update your clone.
if everybody got second chance that would then become an exploite. why bother shelling out the isk to buy clone in advance. when you can buy it after the fact. and if you don't have enuff isk. then CCP will just give it to you....not
you have trained for hours and hours. you have purchased the best ship iskers can buy and outfitted with best equipement. you even shell out the weekly payment on your ship insurance. even watch to make sure it is always uptodate. I think you could do same with your clone. when next you go buy that expensive Battleship, look at clone and upgrade it instead.
My alt hates me, I don't know why. he won't even talk to me anymore |
Dan Forever
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 21:08:00 -
[27]
When you're killed and reappear at the hospital station, some kind of reminder, beit an evemail or the hospital window automatically opening just to say, you have used your clone, and you should buy a new one. Hell, you could even have a charge for the reminder.
There is a difference between reminding someone that they need a new clone and having the game become carebearesque and deaths not effecting skill points at all.
|
Kassik Traggar
|
Posted - 2003.09.14 22:29:00 -
[28]
Im just gonna put my last two bits here, then you guys can continue arguing this into the ground.
First, I prefaced my earlier remark with
"...not that I'm implying anyone who reads these forums is a carebear..." or something similar. All of you who took offense to any of my remarks WANTED to.
Secondly, the only thing I am trying to say is that if CCP compromises their artistic integrity just to satisfy the paying gamers, then the game will suck because everyone, myself included, has at least one thing they want to change. Some of the things may be reasonable, but the majority WILL NOT. Such a path WOULD lead the game into carebear-ism. Count on it. So I say again,
STAY STRONG, CCP!
------------------------------------------------
Military Adjutant of
The People's Front of Minmatar
------------------------------------------------
"Remember, I don't know if you're not 'Playing Role'." |
Ezra
|
Posted - 2003.09.15 02:41:00 -
[29]
Does anyone know why they didn't implement a clone system like that described in the manual?
Right now, the way things work, there is ZERO penalty if you have a sufficient clone, and a complete penalty if you don't.
The way the clone system described in the manual (which was never implemented) worked was that your clone would set two things:
a) What number of skill points/levels you were guaranteed to keep
b) What percentage of the difference you lost.
So if you got podded with only a basic clone, you wouldn't lose everything, but you would lose a significant percentage.
I think a good way to implement the clone system is to assume that a person obtains a certain number of skillpoints per day.
If they don't have an upgraded clone, they lose 10 days of training. For every level of clone above that, it reduces the number of skillpoints lost by an amount equivalent to one day of training.
Most importantly, no matter what clone you have, make it so a podding will ALWAYS lose you a day of training minimum.
Or another possibility is to have 5 clone levels plus basic. Basic clone, you keep 75% of your skillpoints. Each level above that is 5% more, up to 100% for the best.
Also, how exactly did he define "basically screwed" - Did he lose ALL of his skillpoints, or only a percentage of them? (So few people are podded with an insufficient clone that I don't know what happens to those who are.)
------------
Ezra Cornell
pe0n, Xanadu Corporation |
Nirvy
|
Posted - 2003.09.15 02:51:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Nirvy on 15/09/2003 02:55:39
Gotta agree with mark, Had a scare recently after a podding my skill points showed as 0.
Luckily re-logging brought them back, if by some***** up i did lose my 3 month of skill points, i would quit, i couldnt go through that again :
Drunkens Idea is great. I cant see many people wanting to keep playing after losing 100% of their characters development.
Mercenary | The Azath |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |