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c0rn1
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Posted - 2006.04.03 15:51:00 -
[1]
I am just wondering why this is the only upgrade item which needs lvl 5 in it's special skill to use it. PDU II needs only 4; all t2 weapon upgrades need only 4. Target Painter and all other t2 items need 4 for usage. Why does the RCU need lvl 5? Doesn't make sense in my eyes. I'd vote for adjusting it to a level 4 item as well!
Anyone else with me?
Regards x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ...
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Caldorous
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Posted - 2006.04.03 16:09:00 -
[2]
Imo, the reactor control unit II is the t2 item that recieves the most boost of all modules, as it gives a 50% more pg than it's t1 counterpart, thats maybe why it needs so much skill -----------------------------
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Nifel
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Posted - 2006.04.03 16:53:00 -
[3]
Why does so many of the T2 ships require lvl5 <insert ship skill here>?:(
But ye... doesn't really make that much sense. Nor does the skill training system with no queue or just a continuation of the next level of the skill make no sense. /me rants about the lower levels of skills
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
c0rn1
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Posted - 2006.04.04 07:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Caldorous Imo, the reactor control unit II is the t2 item that recieves the most boost of all modules, as it gives a 50% more pg than it's t1 counterpart, thats maybe why it needs so much skill
Here an Example with 50% boost and a lvl 4 requirement: Tracking Computer I to II: max range: 1.1 <-> 1.15 ==> 50% boost tracking speed: 1.2 <-> 1.3 == 50% boost
some examples of other items with a high boost: gyrostab T1 to T2: (same boost for all damage mods) 1.07 damage mod <-> 1.1 damage mod ==> ~ 43% boost 7.5% ROF <-> 10.5% ROF ==> 40% boost
Tracking Enhancer T1 to T2: max range: 1.1 <-> 1.15 ==> 50% boost Tracking Speed: 1.07 <-> 1.095 ==> ~ 36% boost
So it is not too far off, and I do not think that an 8% boost difference deserves a lvl 5 learning period.
And here some curiosities: Remote Sensor Booster 1 Skill Requirements: Sensor Linking LvL 1 / Electronics LvL 3 Remote Sensor Booster II: Sensor Linking LvL 1 / Electronics LvL 3
I do not understand the sense here that you can use the t2 item without having the skill sensor linking @ lvl IV similar to most t2 modules whereas the remote sensor dampener II has sensor linking IV as requirement.
Another thing is the Signal Amplifier II which has a requirement of lvl 5 Electronic upgrades whereas the boost is only 33% target range and 50% scan resolution, which isn't logical due to the fact that it's average boost is less than most skill level 4 requiring t2 modules.
It just makes me think about the skill system. In my eyes the first level I trained a skill gives me a basic understanding of how something works that I want to use. Level 4 should give me a more specific sense of using modules in that area as some kind of Expert which should cover all T2 items. Level 5 should be the level where I studied the whole mechanics of this technical field and I can achieve further knowledge by specialising in it and being able to use more complicated systems. (example Weapon upgrades -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades)
I know thinking is sometimes a bad attitude, but I couldn't help myself :D
How do you think about this?
Regards x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ...
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Audrea
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Posted - 2006.04.06 06:24:00 -
[5]
This thread deserves an answer.. *bump* :) And t2 Sensor Dampeners require lvl4 of linking, I trained them perhaps half month ago. ---------------------------------------------- All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise. |
Ramov Tinoga
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Posted - 2006.04.08 14:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: c0rn1 I am just wondering why this is the only upgrade item which needs lvl 5 in it's special skill to use it.
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II and Armor Thermic Hardener II (and the similar modules) need Hull Upgrades V too.
Whether it's level 5 or 4, seems random to me.. ----------
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Luzerus
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Posted - 2006.04.10 19:25:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Luzerus on 10/04/2006 19:25:25
Originally by: Caldorous Another thing is the Signal Amplifier II which has a requirement of lvl 5 Electronic upgrades whereas the boost is only 33% target range and 50% scan resolution, which isn't logical due to the fact that it's average boost is less than most skill level 4 requiring t2 modules.
Dont forget that the Sig Amps II have a +1 on Max Locked Targets for your ship so there is another bonus to it besides Boosting and no T1 does not have that.
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NE Weevil
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Posted - 2006.04.10 20:01:00 -
[8]
It requires level 5 because it requires level 5. lol They give such a big advantage to their tech 1 counterparts, this is very likely why, but level 4 - 5, your going to train level 5 anyway right - why not just do it now?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.10 20:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: j0sephine on 10/04/2006 20:33:27
"Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II and Armor Thermic Hardener II (and the similar modules) need Hull Upgrades V too.
Whether it's level 5 or 4, seems random to me.. "
Hull Upgrades is rank 1 skill. Energy Grid Upgrades ain't.
Requirements are not really as random as it'd seem... rank 1 skills often require lvl.5 If the relevant skill is rank 2+ though, the module requirements generally settle on lvl.4 top ... which is why Heat Dissipation Field II has lvl.4 requirement even though matching armour hardener requires lvl.5 in rank 1 skill.
edit: and yup, Signal Amplifier II is messed up like that, too. Suspect if the skill needed for it wasn't a pre-requisite for Covert Ops you'd simply see people not use it... because training lvl.5 specifically for this kind of module isn't really worth it except in some really rare cases.
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aeti
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Posted - 2006.04.10 20:34:00 -
[10]
hull upgrades is rank 2
and I probably am wrong, but when rcu 2s initially came out didn't they need the skill at 4?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:45:00 -
[11]
"hull upgrades is rank 2"
D'oh! i remembered it's "half" the rank of tactical shield manipulation, and for some odd reason thought the latter is rank 2, not 4... okay, so much for sense in the skill requirements, i guess :|
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Emno
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: j0sephine
edit: and yup, Signal Amplifier II is messed up like that, too. Suspect if the skill needed for it wasn't a pre-requisite for Covert Ops you'd simply see people not use it... because training lvl.5 specifically for this kind of module isn't really worth it except in some really rare cases.
Signal Amp IIs used to need the skill at lvl 1-4 (not sure) the +1 locked targets is great for a mining barge Target Painter IIs also had a lower skill req but got increased to lvl 4
Some odd stuff gets increased skill reqs but having trained for rcu IIs i doubt i'll ever regret it was well well worth the training time for me but on that topic i would never have taken a rank 2 skill to 5 just to use signal amps IIs ;/
Anyway not all stuff has the same skill reqs just as its x% better for example osprey needs cruiser lvl 1 to use yet mines better then a small barge which needs industry lvl 5 to use does that mean the osprey needs a lvl 5 skill to use or does that mean eve is just odd :o on that note i have completly forgoten what im talking about and its 5am yeah etc ;s
i like rcu IIs btw
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Seramis
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Posted - 2006.04.11 07:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: c0rn1 I am just wondering why this is the only upgrade item which needs lvl 5 in it's special skill to use it. PDU II needs only 4; all t2 weapon upgrades need only 4. Target Painter and all other t2 items need 4 for usage. Why does the RCU need lvl 5? Doesn't make sense in my eyes. I'd vote for adjusting it to a level 4 item as well!
Anyone else with me?
Regards
Why not changing all tech II modules to level 5 skill requirement?
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Calleb
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Posted - 2006.04.11 07:47:00 -
[14]
IIRC some time back there was an offical response to the skill requirements of tech 2. I can't remember it all but it was something to do with the fact that according to the DEVs the ammount of skill points for lvl 4 was in general too low, giving a huge step between lvl 4 and lvl 5. Knowing what they know now they would like a smaller step between lvl 4 an lvl 5 keeping the lvl 5 skill point total.
In general if lvl 4 was the requirement for tech 2 it would make the number of skill points required to use them too low, so many tech 2 items and ships need lvl 5 even though its a bit high. Its a bit harsh but its all they can do as a reworking of the skill point system is just not possable this far into the game.
Maybe if someone else remembers this they can point to link to show the original post. It is probably a couple of years ago though.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.11 08:59:00 -
[15]
Edited by: j0sephine on 11/04/2006 09:02:59
"Why not changing all tech II modules to level 5 skill requirement?"
Because the game already makes people question the sense of having to spend months on training skills necessary to use tech.2 equipment, and the whole "need lvl.5 for this, this, this and that" thing has gotten to the point where even developers admit they'd rather lower skill requirements on stuff to make it more accessible to average EVE player..? (average player doesn't stick with EVE for longer than 7 months)
The skill system was supposed to provide one with diminishing returns. Granting at lvl.5 access to a module which is ~20% improvement on top of regular bonus from a level of skill... is anything but that.
(not that doing it at lvl.4 is really that much better, but at least it helps to keep the playfield somewhat more even, due to shortened time required before one can use things)
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