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[GNW II] and Good vs Evil

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Evil Nurse	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:14:00 - [1] Many people are talking about the good versus ebil in EvE and the lack of epic clashes between the two sides. BoB is evil, this is their game; EVOL, ex-MOO, ex-TPS, ex-CA and now DICE aka ATUK, i mean c'mon this is the army of darkness. On the other corner you have what: Celestial Apocalypse? i am just joking obviously (ignore that). What alliances are actively fighting this menace, the ebil mastermind? Oh i know who ... GIRONZOR. But GIRONZOR were too busy setting all the northern alliances on -10 and after that started a futile invasion in D7 vs FE/5/KAOS, burning all the bridges to fight a real ebil opponent. GIRONZOR by declaring hostility against the weakened PA/NBSI/FE has ensured the quicker demize of the weakest alliances and the controversed NAP between FE/5. If they would've looked at the evemap closer they would've realized that they should've helped FE at least not to find themselves surrounded. Now ASCN/AXE/BoB/5 took the fight to them in Pure Blind, took their carebear outpost and now GIRONZOR must find an alternate route to get home because the main route is too laggy due to the zerging of the dark armies moving to stage 2. <insert nice img here with [G] POS'es in EC-P8R laying in ruin> That being said i can't see the conflicts in EvE as good vs evil, but rather stupid vs evil. If i will ever have to choose betwen stupid and evil i, as citizen of EvE choose evil. Maybe in the near future "the good" will no longer do such stupid things so we can finally have a ballance and some damn fun.
Blacklight	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:16:00 - [2] There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. Eve Blacklight Style
Shittake	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:17:00 - [3] Edited by: **take on 03/04/2006 23:19:30 Originally by: Evil Nurse That being said i can't see the conflicts in EvE as good vs evil, but rather stupid vs evil. While I would not call G/IRON/RAZON stupid, it does seem like perhaps a slight lack of forward political vision on their part has brought them to this point.
Moridan	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Blacklight There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. Good = Beer Evil = Jita "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
Krychton	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Blacklight There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. I have to agree with Blacklight. You keep thinking of EVE and compairing it to Middle earth, where all the free people must fight the evil BoB. There is no Good vs Evil, or how you say it, Ebil. As Blacklight put it, its grey, not black and white. Every alliance is out for their own gain, and they will get what they want through whatever means. Even if it means running throw everyone to achieve it. Seems to me that this is nothing but BoB fanboi post. If you hate BoB, thats great. Personally anyone who isn't on your team you should consider a threat. ---- "No army is big enough to conquer the galaxy. But faith alone can overturn the universe."
Kiyoshi Aphelion	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:35:00 - [6] Evil Nurse, You have no idea the morals, and ideals for which we fight up north. PA was weak and no longer could sustain itself, it was evident when they did not even show up to defend themselves. NBSI was a victim of circumstance and of their own NBSI policy, and FE are for lack of a better word traitors. The Five have for long been enemies of the north and FE allied with them. It wasn't done out of stupidity, it was done because we fight for something other than ourselves. We believe in freespace, equality, strength in unity and diplomacy. Things the south will never learn, they are constantly at war with one another, and BoB and Five, only fight for the sheer thrill of the fight, they hold no purpose, no higher belief. Now while I may not personally or officially agree with some policies or actions of G and IRON, I am their ally and as such I must stand by them as they fight for, what I fight for.
Commander Paul	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:45:00 - [7] Amen, Someone gotta raise there heads up above the foul stench that everyone is currently wallowing in
Commander Paul	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:49:00 - [8] Make the north strong and respectable as the Fade Union was minus the petty indecisiveness and bickering
Phoenix Pryde	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Blacklight There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. Ironically, i quite agree. Shop // Infinite Improbability Inc [3-I] - a TRUST corporation
MrFu	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:57:00 - [10] A simple interests war,no humans vs orcs thing.. --------- Ninja1= Pirate tactics are to board our ships,kill everyone onboard and steal our treasures Ninja2= But...we dont have any ships Ninja1= Yes,that gives us a significant advantage

Recluse Viramor	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Blacklight There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. QFT
Pehova Mindtriq	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Blacklight There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. I agree to some extent but some alliances just feel plain evil or good. Personally i've always viewed the 5 and bob as evil, don't know why maybe it's the destroying other alliances thingy. Then we have the good guys like 3FA and Big blue that stay out of the big conflicts and do their own thing without bothering to many. Even g/iron feels like good guys, they defend their space and occasionally retaliate for past attacks. They never seem to do much unprovoked. But most alliances are grey imo.
Evil Nurse	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Kiyoshi Aphelion Edited by: Kiyoshi Aphelion on 03/04/2006 23:47:55 Evil Nurse, You have no idea the morals, and ideals for which we fight up north. PA was weak and no longer could sustain itself, it was evident when they did not even show up to defend themselves. NBSI was a victim of circumstance and of their own NBSI policy, and FE are for lack of a better word traitors. The Five have for long been enemies of the north and FE allied with them. It wasn't done out of stupidity, it was done because we fight for something other than ourselves. We believe in freespace, equality, strength in unity and diplomacy. Things the south will never learn, they are constantly at war with one another, and BoB and Five, only fight for the sheer thrill of the fight, they hold no purpose, no higher belief. Now while I may not personally or officially agree with some policies or actions of G and IRON, I am their ally and as such I must stand by them as they fight for, what I fight for. We have a code of honor we follow up North. BoB&5 fighting for the sheer thrill of the fight? You sure you know what it means to close down a system for almost a week? I'll tell you - not fun. Closing down a system like EC for almost a week requires endurance, sacrificing many hours for camping and coordination. Pray that BoB came for the pos loot only coz otherwise you will die, but it will be fun this time, at least coz you will have your fleet battles. I am not flaming in any way here gentlemen, i am just contemplating in open discution how politics may or will get you killed. I look at the damn map and i see all the roads blocked, BoB at one entrance with a fleet of gigantic proportions, FE at another and yet the five at another. Maybe i need some glases, i'll look again...
FFGR	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Blacklight There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. QFT Humans themselves are things that drift between good and evil. Something evil for someone is good for someone else and the opposite. _____________________________ siggy v. 0.1, bare with my Photoshop n00bness
Kiyoshi Aphelion	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Evil Nurse Originally by: Kiyoshi Aphelion Edited by: Kiyoshi Aphelion on 03/04/2006 23:47:55 Evil Nurse, You have no idea the morals, and ideals for which we fight up north. PA was weak and no longer could sustain itself, it was evident when they did not even show up to defend themselves. NBSI was a victim of circumstance and of their own NBSI policy, and FE are for lack of a better word traitors. The Five have for long been enemies of the north and FE allied with them. It wasn't done out of stupidity, it was done because we fight for something other than ourselves. We believe in freespace, equality, strength in unity and diplomacy. Things the south will never learn, they are constantly at war with one another, and BoB and Five, only fight for the sheer thrill of the fight, they hold no purpose, no higher belief. Now while I may not personally or officially agree with some policies or actions of G and IRON, I am their ally and as such I must stand by them as they fight for, what I fight for. We have a code of honor we follow up North. BoB&5 fighting for the sheer thrill of the fight? You sure you know what it means to close down a system for almost a week? I'll tell you - not fun. Closing down a system like EC for almost a week requires endurance, sacrificing many hours for camping and coordination. Pray that BoB came for the pos loot only coz otherwise you will die, but it will be fun this time, at least coz you will have your fleet battles. I am not flaming in any way here gentlemen, i am just contemplating in open discution how politics may or will get you killed. I look at the damn map and i see all the roads blocked, BoB at one entrance with a fleet of gigantic proportions, FE at another and yet the five at another. Maybe i need some glases, i'll look again... They've been up here for 3 days. And perhaps they're not doing this for the sheer thrill of kills, but as one BoB member told me when I questioned him as to their motives, they're doing it because they can. I am in no way flaming either, I'm merely stating, in the north the majority of us fight for a cause. BoB and Five fight because they can, they want to, they have fun doing so. They have fun fighting for themselves or to destroy others. We have fun helping one another and fighting for one another. We simply have different philosophies. As for ASCN, I hold them in high respect as with every engagement they've done nothing but compliment the victor or loser. They're a model alliance in my opinion, however I do not believe in what they fight for, and at this time unfortunately that makes us enemies.
Shar Gath	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:50:00 - [16] its about power and to be remembered. best reasons to fight in this world or another. --------------- SMOKE BUD MON!!!
Tecam Hund	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:51:00 - [17] Edited by: Tecam Hund on 04/04/2006 00:51:38 Originally by: Evil That being said i can't see the conflicts in EvE as good vs evil, but rather stupid vs evil. "Evil will always prevail, because good is dumb." As for what is evil and what is good. I think people brand things they can't defend against to be evil.
Ashen Brarn	Posted - 2006.04.04 01:20:00 - [18] History. Bandwagons. NAPS. Attacking "industrial" alliances. 1 2 3 4 There are many more examples. I link to this incident because I was very impressionable at that time. Black & white? Good & evil? No. Wrong universe. ---
Monarch	Posted - 2006.04.04 01:51:00 - [19] n00b script0r cought in the act I guess we are ebil
Death Merchant	Posted - 2006.04.04 02:07:00 - [20] Everything depends on perspective. Both ingame and in RL. One persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist. Eve is a funny that way. In the end it comes down to playstyle and what morals /values/codes etc... you and the people you play with bring to the game. G/Iron/Razor could have done the "easy" thing and kept the north positive. But they didn't. We play how we want to. Everyone else plays how they want to. Eve is great that way. But no matter how many grand schemes,roadtrips, stages 1-35, or NAPster coalitions are formed its still not over till its over. Hell, Texas lost the Alamo to the Mexicans, but it turned out alright in the end 1

The End	Posted - 2006.04.04 02:41:00 - [21] Crusades to Purge The Weak in the Game that is what it is all about. It isnt a question about good nor evil. it a question of who deserves to hold space and exploit all of 0.0 space The War Machines of The Galaxy are Mobilizing to Cleanse this Galaxy of the Weak Trust is the First. im sure this new coalition of Empires will seek out and crush all that stand in its way. You Can Look at it as the "Crusade era"
Body Count	Posted - 2006.04.04 03:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Evil Nurse That being said i can't see the conflicts in EvE as good vs evil, but rather stupid vs evil. If i will ever have to choose betwen stupid and evil i, as citizen of EvE choose evil. Maybe in the near future "the good" will no longer do such stupid things so we can finally have a ballance and some damn fun. QFT. While Eve doesn't lend itself to normal black and white morality very well I'd say BoB and .5 are the closest thing to true evil in this game. "Nice region, we'll take it!" is not the slogan of good guys. ASCN and F-E aren't evil. Traitors and band wagon jumpers perhaps. But mainly I see them along for the ride. Right now the two sides appear to be one highly motivated and disciplined force that's well equipped and has legions of fan bois riding along with it. The other force while also disciplined and experienced is severely outnumbered and is beset on almost all sides. Soon the choice won't be between good and evil or stupid and evil. The choice will be evil or empire. If Iron/G/Razor falls and BoB puts up another puppet alliance in their place what's left? Outer Ring and parts of Syndicate which can't withstand the BoB Horde by itself. RA space which is itself under siege by all of it's neighbors. And Stain which is itself under attack now. If BoB and friends win here which could easily happen you might as well just get yourself a BoB travel pass before entering 0.0 Because every alliance will either be outright dominated by BoB or will be forced to maintain friendly relations with them. It'd be nice if G/Iron could make nice-nice with all the other corps and alliances and form a real force capable of restoring balance to Eve. Without that the might as well consider renaming this game to "BoB Online"
Muthsera	Posted - 2006.04.04 03:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Blacklight There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. Any corp whit Evol in it's name just have to be hopping on the dark side of the fence. So come ann. Lets not keep kidding outselves here. And not to talk about BlackNovaCorp. Black as we all know is the apiffany of evil between all the colors. The evidence is quite clear and undisputable! Well... If it was good enough for the inquisition, it's good enough for me. My thoughs
FlyinFish Shriker	Posted - 2006.04.04 03:53:00 - [24] Edited by: FlyinFish Shriker on 04/04/2006 03:53:35 Usually those who lose are evil, because they can't argue with the 'good' guys anymore, aka. died. Unfortunately, in EVE, those who are dead can still speak for themselves. edit: typo ------------------------------------------- "Death is just the beginning..."
Gierling	Posted - 2006.04.04 05:08:00 - [25] It takes a while to sort it out, Good and evil are sides of a specturm and you CAN be closer to one side then the other. Of course in EVE We roleplay that, but its more of a microcosm of a real social environment in that we can see good and evil behaviors with thier effects caused by individuals. Good tends to be more unified, capable to compromise, capable of deferring gratification etc, Evil tends to be more prone to visceral disagreement, divisive,, impulsive and stubborn... not always as a general rule. PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2006.04.04 05:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Blacklight There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self interest. No. Outside observers could finger which is what fairly easy... ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Qayos	Posted - 2006.04.04 05:25:00 - [27] Edited by: Qayos on 04/04/2006 05:27:15 Before the 'Betrayal at AZN' I considered GIRON a 'grey' who we happened to often be mutually politically hostile towards. After then, I've always considered them quite 'evil'. ASCN I've always considered 'good'. Pretty much all the others I've always considered 'grey' persuing their own interests in matters. With a few exceptions, like Jericho and some other 'RP' alliances who I consider 'good'. 'course, this could be coloring of views by the fact that I am ASCN. As many other views will be. So yeah... basically no good or evil in Eve. (these are personal views and not necessarily those of EDF or ASCN)
Seleene	Posted - 2006.04.04 05:32:00 - [28] Edited by: Seleene on 04/04/2006 05:34:21 I'm evil. Seriously. Just ask people. Even Blacklight. "Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight or if he bothers me or if there's a woman or if I'm gettin paid... well, mostly only when I'm gettin paid." - Jayne, from the movie 'Serenity' ^^ Win. - Who is the MC? Watch!
Pallas Athene	Posted - 2006.04.04 05:35:00 - [29] The moment politicians start talking about Good & Evil, one can be sure they¦re about to sign a war decleration .... N.A.G.A Website I make you a Prince - promise
Emno	Posted - 2006.04.04 05:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Qayos Edited by: Qayos on 04/04/2006 05:27:15 Before the 'Betrayal at AZN' I considered GIRON a 'grey' who we happened to often be mutually politically hostile towards. After then, I've always considered them quite 'evil'. ASCN I've always considered 'good'. Pretty much all the others I've always considered 'grey' persuing their own interests in matters. With a few exceptions, like Jericho and some other 'RP' alliances who I consider 'good'. 'course, this could be coloring of views by the fact that I am ASCN. As many other views will be. So yeah... basically no good or evil in Eve. (these are personal views and not necessarily those of EDF or ASCN) you know ascn were about to "remove" g/iron and they found out right? oh and that cyvok post lol... ;s



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