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Kyreax
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Posted - 2006.04.05 22:51:00 -
[1]
I was thinking about this for a while, finally decided to get some feedback from the experienced players here:
What if Skills were organized to give, say a smaller bonus for each level reached until level 5, which gives the majority of the bonus then?
Example: Instead of 5% per level damage increase for each level of some gunnery skill, let's say that the first 4 levels were a 4% bonus, and the final 5th level was a 9% bonus?
That's the same amount overall as before, but it gives added incentive to carry the skill into level 5 instead of the diminishing return system it has now.
What do you all think? Is this something that would give us incentive to train the advanced learning skills to 5, say if there was a 2 point attribute increase for level 5 instead of 1 ?
Lob it back and forth a bit. I'm interested to hear the responses. |
knifee
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Posted - 2006.04.05 23:05:00 -
[2]
tbh i like it how it is, training skills to level 4 is a lot quicker then to 5 giveing new players a chance to compete with the older ones... at the same time though all those extra 5% add up so there is a nice reward for haveing played longer then others.
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Kyreax
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Posted - 2006.04.05 23:07:00 -
[3]
Ah yes, I forgot about the "noob" factor. I suppose this would increase the gap between the vets and the new players even more. |
knifee
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Posted - 2006.04.05 23:11:00 -
[4]
well yer... training level 5s already have a lot of incentives imo. there are a lot of mods/skills/ships that have level 5 skill prerequisites, for example training a turrent skill to 5 only gets you the extra 5% but you gain access to specialisation skill which gives you another chance to expand the gap between you and someone with only level 4s
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.04.06 01:21:00 -
[5]
I think for EVE the way it is is better. but another skill system entirely... might work ok with that, but I'm not sure.
though I still say to add in a test, if you get to level 5 of a gun skill, to make sure you can spell "turret" right. and if you fail, then it reduces it all the way back to the small skill of that to level 1.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
WildAmishRose
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Posted - 2006.04.06 03:37:00 -
[6]
I've felt that the rewards for mastering a skill are a bit lean as well to be honest. But I'd always wished CCP would go a different way with it and give us a chance to pick a 'perk' for completing(training to level 5) certain skills, like in the fallout series.
What the perks would be, and which you could pick from when mastering a skill, of course, I have no clue what the perks would have to be to avoid completely unbalancing the game, but say having a set of 3 different, useful perks to pick from when you get level 5 in a skill would add a lot of variety, right now there will be a point where everyone's toon is exactly the same ability wise, it may take a while, but thanks to diminishing returns, pretty much everyone will get there.
I think having a permanent choice of a 'perk' rewarded after mastering a skill would keep that from happening. |
Cringeley
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Posted - 2006.04.06 03:38:00 -
[7]
As has already been said , the reward for training some skills to 5 is access to a further skill that gives extra bonuses or some new bonus. Just choose which skills you want to take to 5. I doubt those who are complaining about the lack of rewards for level 5 training have actually trained every "gateway" skill to 5 yet, so there are still bonuses you could be collecting by training more skills to 5.
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Thrice is he armed who has his quarrel just,
But four times he who gets his blow in fust. |
sabsi
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Posted - 2006.04.06 04:46:00 -
[8]
Just leave it alone.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2006.04.06 08:53:00 -
[9]
Actually, for lots of skills lvl5 already gives better bonus than lvl4 or lvl1.
Let's look at Energy Systems Operation skill. It reduces cap recharge time by 5% per level.
So,
lvl1 - 0.95 recharge time
lvl2 - 0.9 recharge time
lvl3 - 0.85
lvl4 - 0.8
lvl5 - 0.75.
So, when you train it from lvl3 to lvl4 you get 0.8 / 0.85 ~= 0.941, or 5.9% less time for cap recharge.
When you train it from lvl4 to lvl5, you get 0.75/0.8 = 0.9375, or 6.25% less time for cap recharge.
As you see, for the skills with negative percentages lvl5 is already more advantageous than lvl4.
Tradeoff is that for positive bonus skills, like Energy Management (5%/level to max cap) it works the other way around - you get 5% for level 1 but only 1.25/1.2 ~= 1.042, only 4.2% for level 5...
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Kyreax
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Posted - 2006.04.06 18:55:00 -
[10]
Thanks for all the input. A few posters decided to not really read the post and post anyways
There was an argument that the "reward" was access to another related skill or something like that. Well, I wasn't talking about that. We already all know about skill tiers - that's not a reward in and of itself for reaching level 5 of a skill. You still have to buy it and train it to at least level 1 to be a "reward".
Anyways, one of the points not discussed had to do with things like Advanced Learning Skills, for which there is NO further skill access when you reach level 5, just a crappy extra attribute point that takes years for the payback to be effective.
So, like I said, would having TWO extra points for training that to level 5 make a big difference to people who didn't want to train it before? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about...less of the "diminishing returns" for the 2 weeks it takes to train.
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knifee
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Posted - 2006.04.06 21:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: knifee on 06/04/2006 21:22:15
 Originally by: Kyreax
Anyways, one of the points not discussed had to do with things like Advanced Learning Skills, for which there is NO further skill access when you reach level 5, just a crappy extra attribute point that takes years for the payback to be effective.
At some point you have to face it that you have maxed that skill out the whole point of eve skill training is deminishing returns... if that extra 1point or 5% is worthless dont train it.
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Static Universe
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Posted - 2006.04.06 21:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: knifee
Edited by: knifee on 06/04/2006 21:22:15
At some point you have to face it that you have maxed that skill out the whole point of eve skill training is deminishing returns... if that extra 1point or 5% is worthless dont train it.
I don't think that's the answer he wants in this "discussion."
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knifee
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Posted - 2006.04.06 21:41:00 -
[13]
Edited by: knifee on 06/04/2006 21:41:44
Originally by: Static Universe
I don't think that's the answer he wants in this "discussion."
 Maybe, but then if its a discution why do i have to give him the answer he wants...
My point is valid, training to level 5 gets you 5% or 1 point, often it gets you access to another skill which very quickly gives you another 6-8% or 3-4 points. that is your reward for spending the time training. However that cant go on indefinatly at some point you come to end of that skill tree. The advanced learning skills are your reward for trainng level 5 learning skill, the same as Specialisation skills are your reward for training turets 5. There is no need to give out more bonues.
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