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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.04.07 10:23:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/04/2006 10:27:00
 Originally by: Aridia Parker
The Muninn does so much more dmg because of the hac bonus and the additional slot and can tank a lot more because of it's resistances and higher basevalues. The dmg about is REALLY nasty. So in my mind the only the pain is the price on the market atm,
And also I found most of the minni-ships tend to be armor tanked.
Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly do an opt range and a tracking bonus increase raw DPS? Seems to me the Muninn only has one more gun over the Ruppie damage-wise... Does not seem all that hot to me compared to other HACs, though I want one still because it seems to be the uber thing when tanking Blood/Sansha.
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Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Great Artista
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Posted - 2006.04.07 10:42:00 -
[32]
Now that im trainned with minnie cruisers, I can surely say, that Rupture is THE THE solo T1 cruiser in game.
Counted 3 Thorax kills (Should I start fiting T2 items now...?)
Just wait for my video, and visit the placid region meanwhile...
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Sentille
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Posted - 2006.04.07 11:53:00 -
[33]
So to summarise for you Ore Monkey, Matari is a long road in terms of getting the best out of the ships, but we have some awesome PVP ships for most situations.
Minmatar is all I fly and I've never regretted it, as your sp's increase so do your options and ability with Minmatar ships. Not a quick win solution though.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.07 13:41:00 -
[34]
Strange that everybody suddenly seems to agree that minmatar rocks their world. Did all the critics recently get podded?
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"Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait" |
Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2006.04.07 13:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/04/2006 10:27:00
Originally by: Aridia Parker
The Muninn does so much more dmg because of the hac bonus and the additional slot and can tank a lot more because of it's resistances and higher basevalues. The dmg about is REALLY nasty. So in my mind the only the pain is the price on the market atm,
And also I found most of the minni-ships tend to be armor tanked.
Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly do an opt range and a tracking bonus increase raw DPS? Seems to me the Muninn only has one more gun over the Ruppie damage-wise... Does not seem all that hot to me compared to other HACs, though I want one still because it seems to be the uber thing when tanking Blood/Sansha.
raw DPS as you put it is useless if you dont land any shots on your target, optimal and tracking boni help a great deal with using your more damaging ammo`s at longer ranges, with normal ammo even using uranium you have optimal at something like 40-50km then another 20km falloff, and that ammo is enough to 1 volley most frigate sized ships,
try using quake ammo against cruisers/BC`s and BS and see how much pain it can inflict,
the munin is fast too, fair enough its not a vagabond by any means but stick an MWD on this baby and it will close or keep range with the majority of ships in eve
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Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques |
Matrices Sunbound
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Posted - 2006.04.07 16:57:00 -
[36]
TO the guy who said is Autopest was getting owned by BSes with a similar set-up due to ammunition problems - you mean how much ammo you can carry in your hold? That shouldn't be an issue unless you have massive amount of 800s in there. Also, T2 ammo seems to make a world of difference for Minmatar autocannons.
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2006.04.07 20:48:00 -
[37]
I don't know, I seem to be doing just fine with my tempest 
sure it ain't the best damage dealer, or the best tanker, or best anything... But does that really matter if it gets the job done ?
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phew! dodged the mods on this sig!
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.04.07 21:36:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 07/04/2006 21:36:43
I take it the general idea for the Cyclone specifically in solo PvP would be an all out no hold barred gank setup, seeing as you will only have 5 mids, 3 of which would be fitted with AB/MWD, Web, Scram?
Two slots does not make a tank.....I assume you'd use them for a Shield Booster and a Large Extender/Invul Field, to at least have some form of tank?
Lows would be filled with 3x Gyrostabs, and 1 x Other......Possibly Damage Control, so that if it all goes arse about face, you at least have 50% Structure Resists to limp away with?
Thoughts? Opinions?
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HankMurphy
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Posted - 2006.04.07 21:39:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ore Monkey
I'd just like to hear from both sides, commited Minmatar pilots (do we suck?) and people who've flown against Minny ships in PvP (do they make you laugh?)
Thanks!
We suck...
....but only your energy w/ a nos
We make ppl laugh...
....but only if they find dying fun.
"Brutors do it better, just ask your gf" -Hank'omglookatthesizeofthathowitzer'Murphy
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Ultroth
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Posted - 2006.04.07 22:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Ore Monkey
I'd just like to hear from both sides, commited Minmatar pilots (do we suck?) and people who've flown against Minny ships in PvP (do they make you laugh?)
Thanks!
We suck...
....but only your energy w/ a nos
We make ppl laugh...
....but only if they find dying fun.
"Brutors do it better, just ask your gf" -Hank'omglookatthesizeofthathowitzer'Murphy
Well said!! 
"It's better to stay silent and appear stupid, than to open your mouth and leave no doubt!"
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Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.04.07 23:40:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Tasty Burger on 07/04/2006 23:40:20
Minmatar tend to be the hardest ships to fly because they don't just give you what you want in terms of damage output or tankability. You need to actually earn it on the battlefield by using the unique advantages, and having alot of experience, whilst other races, primarily amarr and caldari, you need only have a good setup and a general knowledge of tactics to win.
Its very satisfying to destroy an enemy's prized Cerberus/Apoc/whatever in your 'crappy' minmatar ship with less dps and tankability.
Problem is that you need assloads of SPs though.
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:11:00 -
[42]
to the guys going "omg claw is uber"
Claw is only good for one thing, killing dumb people.
Then again, i can kill dumb people in a vigil too... or a rifter...
Everything a claw can do, a crow and a ranis can do better.
All about target jamming |
Jack Folstam
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Posted - 2006.04.08 19:51:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Jack Folstam on 08/04/2006 19:53:51
Originally by: Matrices Sunbound
TO the guy who said is Autopest was getting owned by BSes with a similar set-up due to ammunition problems - you mean how much ammo you can carry in your hold? That shouldn't be an issue unless you have massive amount of 800s in there. Also, T2 ammo seems to make a world of difference for Minmatar autocannons.
perhaps i should amend what i said... the problem isn't the ammo supply, it's running out of 800's  since amarr ships can carry more 800's in their bay if i want to have a decent supply of ammo. t2 ammo does make a world of difference - and i suspect i lost to the pilgrim/zealot because i didn't bring hail along.
I ran a test against one of my corp's apoc pilots who'se close-range apoc was extremely similar. I ran out of cap before he did, therefore, i would have went boom.
EDIT: Twilight, my cyclone's pvp setup is all damage and tank, so it's not a solo ship. I just hide behind the swarm of frigates my alliance sometimes puts out in fights 
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2006.04.08 23:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 07/04/2006 21:36:43
I take it the general idea for the Cyclone specifically in solo PvP would be an all out no hold barred gank setup, seeing as you will only have 5 mids, 3 of which would be fitted with AB/MWD, Web, Scram?
...
I don't care how many AB/MWD you fit on a Cyclone, you wont be catching anybody.
I think Minmatar ships have no where to go but up
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.04.09 05:09:00 -
[45]
I haven't flown Cyclone since Invuln II broke 10mil each.
20mil for two mods on a 30mil ship? C'mon! I'm too stingy for that.
Minmatar ships require a lot more skills than others, but it's not so significant as you think. The best option is specialising in a few ships. Train armour tanking and projectiles heavily, gives you access to most Minmatar ships. Only some of the t2 ships, and Cyc shield tank. Temp can too (makes a great small gang shield tanking AC gankmobile) but doesn't have to. The bread and butter Minnie ships - Rifter, Ruppie and Temp(ie) are simple enough to not need a great amount of time (though temp benefits massively from better skills).
Once you've done that you can choose to shield tank and go for vaga (get good nav skills first), Cyc etc. It's not till you wanna fly a phoon that you need many missile/drone skills.
It's only a few ships that make you train everything.
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Matrices Sunbound
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Posted - 2006.04.10 16:25:00 -
[46]
Two pieces of advice:
A. Don't solo PVP in the Cyclone. Anyone solo PVPing in a shield-tanking ship is at a severe disadvantage. Bring along some tackling friends. Small group PVP is on the whole much more fun than either huge lagging fleet battles or dueling circle-jerks where you're racking your brains out to configure your ship so as to take on any other single ship setup in existence.
B. Seems to me you can fit 10 cap 800s and still have 200m3 left for projectile ammo. Doesnt large ammo take up 0.1 m3? You should have more than enough to last a couple battles. Don't forget to load some ammo into your guns/boosters before filling up the cargo.
Also, for small group or solo PVP I wouldn't fit any Nos on an autopest. 3 x Heavy named neutralizers will insta-pwn any HAC or BC immediately. It will also make enemy BSes run out of cap boosters faster than you.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2006.04.10 17:46:00 -
[47]
Versitility only means that whatever you fit there will always be something better out there. Amarr have the best armor tanks, Caldari have the best EW, Gallente have the best drones, Minmatar just do everything ok. Looks nice on paper, but in reality when you're in space you have just the one fit and it's a bit of a drag knowing no matter what you fit you're going to be outclassed by something. What good is being able to fit an ok shield tank or an ok armor tank if you can only practically use one at a time? I'd rather be good at one and not so good at the other than simply ok at both.
But somehow I've stuck with Minmatar since beta, and I'll be damned if I'm changing that now =)
Signature removed. -Zhuge ([email protected])
Woot.
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Makepeace Fox
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Posted - 2006.04.10 21:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Matrices Sunbound
Also, for small group or solo PVP I wouldn't fit any Nos on an autopest. 3 x Heavy named neutralizers will insta-pwn any HAC or BC immediately. It will also make enemy BSes run out of cap boosters faster than you.
Yes but in a cap war with other BS you will always lose as Minnie. Not to mention doms or anyone who has nos. And that you're gimping your DPS taking off a gun. Guess it works well for smaller stuff though, however you might argue two heavy nos is sufficient.
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Matrices Sunbound
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Posted - 2006.04.10 22:27:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Matrices Sunbound on 10/04/2006 22:28:40
There's no comparison between Nos and Neutralizer. It's called Neutralizer for a reason: one Neutralizer will neutralize 600 cap; you only lose 400. So 3 Neutralizers will stop any BC, HAC, Cruiser, dead in its tracks. As for enemy battleship, it is going to neutralize that ship's Nosferatu. Moreover, it's going to neutralize it's tank, and mathematically it will run out of cap faster than you. Besides, it's feasible to fit two capacitor injectors on a Tempest (hint hint). And if you're losing, just MWD away and out from the enemy BS. Finally, no one expects it. Enemy BS is likely to panic as he sees his comfortable little Nos-induced capacitor flow disappear. And when you panic in PVP, you make mistakes.
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.04.10 22:54:00 -
[50]
Solo pvp in a cyclone is awsome,
5x220mmIIs, 3 x nos / heavies
mwd, web, sceam, t2 extender t2 booster
damage mods
If you are fighting a nossing ship then just run your large booster till your cap dies - so will theirs and you're still doing lots of dps.
Just avoid ammar ships - they hurt :(
sgb
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Makepeace Fox
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Posted - 2006.04.11 00:01:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Matrices Sunbound
Edited by: Matrices Sunbound on 10/04/2006 22:28:40
There's no comparison between Nos and Neutralizer. It's called Neutralizer for a reason: one Neutralizer will neutralize 600 cap; you only lose 400. So 3 Neutralizers will stop any BC, HAC, Cruiser, dead in its tracks. As for enemy battleship, it is going to neutralize that ship's Nosferatu. Moreover, it's going to neutralize it's tank, and mathematically it will run out of cap faster than you. Besides, it's feasible to fit two capacitor injectors on a Tempest (hint hint). And if you're losing, just MWD away and out from the enemy BS. Finally, no one expects it. Enemy BS is likely to panic as he sees his comfortable little Nos-induced capacitor flow disappear. And when you panic in PVP, you make mistakes.
I wouldn't panic. Consider you're using the best named Neuts, with emission V, 375 cap cost for 600 drained. Enemy using a Nos, non-named. Every 24s you'll be losing 575 cap to his 400. Doesn't sound too impressive. Sounds more like his nos cancels your Neut. That's because 200 of the cap you drain off him he got off you, you're hit twice, losing the cap and draining less of his. AND he's using a non-named nos, while you've the best named neut with emission V. Plus his fit easier.
So why am I fitting Neut again? Didn't realise they sucked so much till I worked that out. Better to fit nos yourself and then at least net loss is 0.
Even with two neuts to his one nos: you lose 950 cap to his 1000 every 24s.
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Matrices Sunbound
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Posted - 2006.04.12 03:45:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Matrices Sunbound on 12/04/2006 03:46:21
Yeah, guess this setup is not useful against close-range BS. But it will destroy HACs faster than any other way.
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Gelian
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Posted - 2006.04.12 23:22:00 -
[53]
neuts do have there uses. 2 nos + 1 neut is cap neutral (if u have the skills) but will drain equivelent to 5 nos. so against a NON nos enabled ship, u'll drain them much quicker. but hey we appear to have gone off topic  |
Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.04.13 00:03:00 -
[54]
Ok fine. Back on topic.
Yes. We're kings of PVP. Aren't we?
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