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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:19:00 -
[1]
so whilst CCP might be stuck on what to do about N00b corpers, macro miners and the TII lottery  they can do something about this recent exploit before it gets out of hand.
Problem: players go on vent/TS then log out everyone except one player left in system. Target comes along, the player in system engages and shouts everyone else on vent/TS to log back in. Target is now fighting 20 ships. gg.
Solution: 'no aggression' for 300 seconds after login combined with a popup asking 'do you wish to return to original position' after a person logs in.
Not difficult at all and should nip this in the bud before it gets way out of hand. This doesnt directly affect me at the minute but like every other gameplay exploit it requires fixing. 
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The TX
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: The TX on 07/04/2006 09:25:17
I feel pity for the people who use exploits. I can't imagine what must be going through their heads when they decide to 'cheat' to gain an advantage - it's quite sad. I couldn't face you guys if I found a sploit and used it.
edit: basically, there is no honour or respect - which is waaay UNcool.
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Surviving Close Calls
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Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:30:00 -
[3]
Whats even worse is when they know a fleet is comming log of and then log back in as the fleet jumps into the system, as the scouts didnt pick up the people in local, the people who managed to jump through now has to deal with the logging in fleet and the poeple who are trying to log in completely lag out / emergency jump meaning that the fleet jumping intothe system has no chance at all.
seen it a coupple of times now, and is a awfull exploit.
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:30:00 -
[4]
its not a exploit, otherwise CCP would have done something about it.
Your idea is not good. It disadvantages people who are not log on trapping. What if I log on in the afternoon to have some fun and warp from my safe to a gate in 0.0 and I see a fresh new target, but the 300 seconds hasn't gone up yet and he gets away! Log on trapping isn't cool, bu its really very very difficult to stop it happening without annoying alot of other people who don't log on trap.
It seems to me that someone recently got log - on - trapped and has decided to come whine about it in the wrong forums.
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CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub.
Wanna Join? Convo meh IG. |
Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:41:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Rellik B00n on 07/04/2006 09:43:28
 Originally by: mirel yirrin
its not a exploit, otherwise CCP would have done something about it.
My fault for not being clear. GAME PLAY exploit ie. its not cheating but it does exploit the game mechanics because this is probably not CCP's idea of how we should be fighting.
Originally by: mirel yirrin
What if I log on in the afternoon to have some fun and warp from my safe to a gate
Let me stop you there. ideally you dont warp anywhere for 5 minutes. You use this time to make a coffee, read some ****, w/e floats your boat. Argument is erroneous, you wouldnt warp to the gate until your countdown reached 0. Dead simple.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:42:00 -
[6]
Or use WCS? 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
It seems to me that someone recently got log - on - trapped and has decided to come whine about it in the wrong forums.
oh and by the way this has never happened to me, I like your use of the word 'whine' here, always a staple for those who cannot think of anything better to say.
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Tasuric Orka
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
It seems to me that someone recently got log - on - trapped and has decided to come whine about it in the wrong forums.
You dont represent the forums 
I claim this is indeed, the right forum.
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Hypocritical. |
mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:51:00 -
[9]
Its completly the wrong forums, because your suggesting a change to the game. Go look in "game development"
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CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub.
Wanna Join? Convo meh IG. |
Myagi
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Myagi on 07/04/2006 09:56:18
My thoughts (from a while back) on this matter, included:
- Showing log outs/ins over last 1h/24h
- Reduce cap whilst logged out in space:
- Reduce 2% cap every minute logged (mean a CTD/BSOD will only loose ~20% of total cap whilst they reboot [10 mins])
- Minimum of 20% cap left (people who logged at safes can wait for cap recharge, other's have minimal cap to escape)
DAMN alt (FireFoxx80)
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Meme One
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:56:00 -
[11]
Gr8 idea rellik.
Maybe a deviation of the idea could b that depending if the person is in space or docked in station the penalty gets applied.
"Sorry, unable to target due to ship navigation equipment booting up"
But if you were in a station when you logged on then you would have the added benefits of the stations personnel/computers to help bring your systems online.
I would recommend posting this in the Features and ideas section just cause it's such a splendid idea.
This step would in one timer completely ruin the log on trappers exploit.
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The TX
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Posted - 2006.04.07 09:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Meme One
Gr8 idea rellik.
Maybe a deviation of the idea could b that depending if the person is in space or docked in station the penalty gets applied.
"Sorry, unable to target due to ship navigation equipment booting up"
But if you were in a station when you logged on then you would have the added benefits of the stations personnel/computers to help bring your systems online.
YES! Perfect! In a station, systems WOULD boot up quicker - but in space, using the log sploit, u could say that it would take longer to setup than in a station. Only trouble would be people who were fighting, but lost connection, logged back in again, and couldn't continue fighting...
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Surviving Close Calls
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.07 10:07:00 -
[13]
personally, i'd just make the ships stay at the million km safespot for a second before warping back to last position. of course, zero that counter instantly if another ship comes onto the same grid
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
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Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
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Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.04.07 10:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
do something about this recent exploit before it gets out of hand.
"Recent"? I hate to burst your bubble, but the log on trap is one of the oldest "exploits" about. The whole warp away when log off thing was introduced to COMBAT the login trap. Unfortunately, it isn't working, and CCP do need to look at it again. CCP are NOT stupid, and I'm sure that they are looking at ways of combatting this annoying problem
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
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Now run along and play with your dolls...
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Astorothe
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Posted - 2006.04.07 10:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Solution: 'no aggression' for 300 seconds after login combined with a popup asking 'do you wish to return to original position' after a person logs in.
[/b]
I would have to say this is an excellent idea in terms of game mechanics - but I cant quite justify the "in character" explanation for this.
I can see problems when you crash out during a mission, and when you reload, you find you cant get back into the mission for X time.
Perhaps there is a better way to deal with logging out and the issues surrounding that, rather than tacking it from the other end (when you log back in)?
I think this is on the right track, and I could live with it. Just I dont think it's perfect, and I dont profess to know what would be.
Nice thought Rellik.
Eve Corp for the Role Players Gaming Network Members |
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.04.07 10:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Its completly the wrong forums, because your suggesting a change to the game. Go look in "game development"
Good idea.
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Edited by: Rellik B00n on 07/04/2006 09:43:28
Originally by: mirel yirrin
its not a exploit, otherwise CCP would have done something about it.
My fault for not being clear. GAME PLAY exploit ie. its not cheating but it does exploit the game mechanics because this is probably not CCP's idea of how we should be fighting.
Best is to use the definition of "exploit" as in abusing the game mechanics in a way that is disallowed by CCP. That way we avoid confusion.
[Read the Rules!] - [Contact us] |
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Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2006.04.07 11:02:00 -
[17]
hi! thx for the replies.
It was in the wrong forum but tbh you might as well not post if you are posting in the ideas forum.
thx for moving it to the correct forum.
My only concern is to make EVE as enjoyable as possible as I have quit everything else and this is now my sole game.
perhaps 300 seconds is too long but the general principle remains. Adding the station idea in would be great.
and finally, yes, it may be an 'old' issue, but im a young player and it seems to me that players using this method are on the increase. 
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Talmssar
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Posted - 2006.04.07 11:28:00 -
[18]
Actually log of tactic needed to be reported to exploit and peeps who do it get warned first and then banned. I remember this issue talked over year ago and CCP stated that it is exploit to use TS/VENT as purpose you descripted.
So generally if you can prove that enemy is calling reinforcements or it looks like it you can file petition and GM will look at matter. At least so it was long ago... dunno if they have changed it since... BTW it may be even 2 years ago:) I have played too long to remember correctly.
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
Terradoct
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Posted - 2006.04.07 12:35:00 -
[19]
You saying it's explout. Ok why not ask yourself why they logout? Answer is - because local chat, it prevent any form of ambush exept to logout leaving 1 scout in system and wait for command. You see there is no skill involment in scouting enemy position. you jsut jump in to the system se local, and dicied whenever you jump through gate or wait till enemy log off of bordom. If there was that local chat only show pilots that are chating, then there would be any login trap. Also map option of showing pilots in space for 0.0 space should be removed.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.04.07 13:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Wrangler
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Edited by: Rellik B00n on 07/04/2006 09:43:28
Originally by: mirel yirrin
its not a exploit, otherwise CCP would have done something about it.
My fault for not being clear. GAME PLAY exploit ie. its not cheating but it does exploit the game mechanics because this is probably not CCP's idea of how we should be fighting.
Best is to use the definition of "exploit" as in abusing the game mechanics in a way that is disallowed by CCP. That way we avoid confusion.
Which would make exploiting bugs/mechanics that arent known by CCP yet completely legal...?
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
TomParad0x
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Posted - 2006.04.07 14:04:00 -
[21]
I agree that this is wrong to do, and should be considered somthing againsed the rules, but i dont like your idea...
Try this situation, say your ratting in 0.0, you crash ( happens to me all the time ) you log in ( 99% of the time the game warps me back to the belt ), but i cant attack for 300 seconds, if the rats have a warp scram and you cant leave your basically screwed unless you can tank them for 300 seconds...
to address the comment above saying if you can prove they did it, then they would be delt with...How in the hell are you suposed to do that without being on their TS//Vent...They arnt going to just outright tell you. They could look at the logs and see when they loged on compared to when the fight started and then what they did afterwords, but this wouldnt be the best way to do it ( what if the person just loged on and got cought in the middle of the battle? )
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Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2006.04.07 15:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: TomParad0x
Try this situation, say your ratting in 0.0, you crash ( happens to me all the time ) you log in ( 99% of the time the game warps me back to the belt ), but i cant attack for 300 seconds, if the rats have a warp scram and you cant leave your basically screwed unless you can tank them for 300 seconds...
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Solution: 'no aggression' for 300 seconds after login combined with a popup asking 'do you wish to return to original position' after a person logs in.
the popup would hopefully cover your concerns Tom
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Isabella Montague
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Posted - 2006.04.08 03:11:00 -
[23]
I've never experienced it, but it explains why someone in my address book was telling me about how they were at war and he kept logging in and out.
Needless to say he migrated off my address book. I don't associate with cheaters.
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twit brent
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Posted - 2006.04.08 06:46:00 -
[24]
I think right now we have arround 20 stain alliance logged off in h74 in one of our home systems. They all log off when we bring a gang to take them out. I have now lost all respect for them as an alliance. The big problem is that CCP cant dictate when people log ona and off. Make it so the 300 seconds wont apply if you have been offline for under 90 seconds to help with people that crash or get booted and it should work OK. Also we should still be able to engage NPC's.
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.04.08 08:49:00 -
[25]
This wouldn't need 'fixing' if local chat got fixed. The sole reason for this exploit is to remove their names from local, otherwise they could just wait in a safe spot.
Fix the real problem first - why can you see the entire contents of a system the second you enter?
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Shai Faetal
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Posted - 2006.04.08 11:10:00 -
[26]
it was called a "Logon Trap", which According to ccp does not exist ingame anymore due to some changed they did, lik3 randomly warping u 15km from where you logged off..
Logon trap's do not exist ingame anymore, just like Lag.
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^_^ my sig is better then urs, damn right! ^_^
CCP FTW |
Akita T
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Posted - 2006.04.08 12:19:00 -
[27]
How about something simpler and much more effective ?
Instead of complicated game mechanics and all sorts of "local chat" tweaks, simply get a fresh new button/window (on left menubar) that lists the following things:
- full list of players IN the system (logged in and logged out)
- time spent logged on, in last 1h/24h IN this system
- if online, or time passed since last logoff/timeout
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Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2006.04.08 13:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Prestis
This wouldn't need 'fixing' if local chat got fixed. The sole reason for this exploit is to remove their names from local, otherwise they could just wait in a safe spot.
Fix the real problem first
good point. However I believe certain players would still use this simply 'because they can.' It would also remain a tactical tool for use in engagements.
I do think you are right about local chat and im pretty sure CCP agree with you, but i think it should stay a seperate issue.
As far as the other replies go, thx for your input.
Since your ship auto warps to safe when you log out the popup to decide to stay in safe or go back to original position covers all aspects of combat/mining/booting, and in the worst case scenario if the 300 seconds made you lose a mission then i guess you could petition.
I personally still think its a very simple solution for both the programmers and us to do it the way i stated in my original post: adding a counter is elementry programming.
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