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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:35:00 -
[1]
from all the whining about WCS and such, it sounds like people don't see it possible to "win" without the other player blowing up...
now for some situations, this obviously is so. but it seems to me like there should be a majority of circumstances where destruction of a ship should not be the only "signal" of victory.
for example a while back I was scouting ore with my AF. happened upon another AF while doing so. they locked and scrambled me... and as much of a carebear as I can be... I was in an AF in low sec afterall. so I spin back around from trying to warp away, and engage them, and they end up warping off, (Ishkur ftw)
the way I see it, I won that engagement. if we were at war or something, sure, it'd have been annoying that they got away, but we weren't, so it wasn't.
the way I see it if the other person is voluntarily fighting and fits WCS... then hes gimping himself and giving you an another advantage to win with. not keeping you from winning by making it so he can get away.
for wars and such, thats different.
so any thoughts on why it seems to be such a fixation that you haven't won unless you've killed their ship, or even pod?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Kye Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:42:00 -
[2]
1)For killmails and the kill count on killboards.
2)The satifaction of knowing you finanically hurt the guy.
3)Proof of victory as there will always be those who smack and try to make out you didnt win the fight.
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kel Shek on 08/04/2006 17:47:54
 Originally by: Kye Kenshin
1)For killmails and the kill count on killboards.
2)The satifaction of knowing you finanically hurt the guy.
3)Proof of victory as there will always be those who smack and try to make out you didnt win the fight.
sooo.... in other words:
1) ePeen.
2) ePeen. (borderline greif really, but understandable ... sorta, but why isn't their pride enough?)
3) ePeen. (why do you care?)
Quote:
4) your enemy won't come back 5 minutes later and try to attack you again.
now THAT one, I see as a legitimate, reasonable ... erm, reason. why can't people be reasonable and leave you alone if you beat them though?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:46:00 -
[4]
4) your enemy won't come back 5 minutes later and try to attack you again.
All about target jamming |
Lucus Ranger
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:46:00 -
[5]
And for the pretty explosion 
But yes everything said above...
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:47:00 -
[6]
letting the guy get away doesn't make much ISK
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:49:00 -
[7]
loot.. that simple.
demand is greater then supply = high price.
supply is greater then demand = low price.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:51:00 -
[8]
Explosions are pretty
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Shetani Mferna
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:51:00 -
[9]
It's all about the objective. Your objective was more or less to survive in your example, and by running away or by forcing the other to flee, you succeed.
If your objective is to make them space dust and/or plunder their wreckage, of course you'll need an explosion for that.
Of course, sometimes, the only way to drive someone off for any useful ammount of time, is to make em dead...and if they cant be scrambled...
________
Dont mind me, I'm just going insane... |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:53:00 -
[10]
Proof, satisfaction and loot.
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Mag's
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Posted - 2006.04.08 17:56:00 -
[11]
Well it's a game and as such people want different things from it.
I for one, don't care if someone warps or not.
Horses for courses. 
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Pwny McPwnerson
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:05:00 -
[12]
It's because you might drop good loot.
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:09:00 -
[13]
Maybe you won because you didn't have a scrambler fitted and thus cud go for max tankage? 
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Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:20:00 -
[14]
If I get a killmail, cool, if not, still cool.
I don't need proof of my ability as a PvPer.
~Overlord Eximius Josari
Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
Industrial Giants |
Victor Valka
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:27:00 -
[15]
Because it hurts.
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Livia Tarquina
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:30:00 -
[16]
In small gangs or solo PvP I'd see people wanting more concrete victories. In fleets/wars it should be seen as a minor victory.
"Big guns and heavy armor what else is there?"
--Amarrian Admiral before entering battle against Jove Navy |
Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:33:00 -
[17]
forcing an enemy to fall back is victory from a tactical sense.
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Destises
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:34:00 -
[18]
Killboards are retarded. What is the point of someone posting how they got the killing blow in a when they just blobbed some newbie in an Ibis. Some people think this game is Counterstrike or Quake. I'm all for some good PvP, but some of the killing going on is just 100% pure unnessecary griefing. Killboards should only be for fair 1v1 fights, but how can you track those?
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:40:00 -
[19]
Satisfaction, adrenaline. It's even more satisfying when you battle and are victorious in a dogfight or 1v1. 
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:43:00 -
[20]
It is not about the killboard. The simple fact that in EVE you can repair so easily should tell you loads. You really haven't accomplished anything if the other guy warps off (unless you were the one in the tight spot, of course).
Now, had repairers been slow as hell (read: hull repairer) and shield boosters non-existant so that tanking was done soley through amount of hit points, THEN you'd actually accomplish something by simply shooting at someone regardless if he warps off or you do.
So, 1, 2, 3, and loot are just the rewards and proof of success. Number 4 (not coming back to attack you a minute later) is the real kicker.
That said, if someone runs away, some people do think they get bragging rights on EVE-Ohnoes.com forums, when in reality noone cares ;)
Arkanor > Gallente missileboat might be cool.
KilROCK > Pod yourself till you got no skills left |
Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Destises
Killboards are retarded. What is the point of someone posting how they got the killing blow in a when they just blobbed some newbie in an Ibis. Some people think this game is Counterstrike or Quake. I'm all for some good PvP, but some of the killing going on is just 100% pure unnessecary griefing. Killboards should only be for fair 1v1 fights, but how can you track those?
There are a few killboards now that not only crossreference with other corp or alliance but also have awards for each month. Top pod killer or top solo killer etc. This is a nice feature so it is possible to filter out the crap kills like alts in shuttles and noobships etc. In fact i'm pretty sure these boards only show kills that are ships other than pods, shuttles and noobships as well on the home pages. To see all the kills and losses you have to search for the individual pilot.
I see your point about only showing fair 1v1 encounters but the problem is that alot of corps have contracts some for specific targets but sometimes ones which mean killing absolutely everything they can in a certain system. In fact ER had a contract just for that about 2 months back on a certain system in Syndicate that was next to a very busy system. Since these contracts are sometimes given a bonus for how effective you have been all kills and losses have to be posted.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.08 18:59:00 -
[22]
To quote someone when I asked him why he destroys ISS haulers, "dey drop gud stuf".
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
R31D
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Posted - 2006.04.08 19:40:00 -
[23]
No explosion means no loot. No loot means there was no point in that last exercise except to risk your own ship for no reward other than the fun of the fight (which is normally quickly forgotten when your opponent warps with stabs)
Free bumpage for all |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.04.08 19:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: R31D
No explosion means no loot. No loot means there was no point in that last exercise except to risk your own ship for no reward other than the fun of the fight (which is normally quickly forgotten when your opponent warps with stabs)
This and a knowledge that he will fix his ship in 5 mins and get back ...
Die, die, die. |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.08 19:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nyphur
To quote someone when I asked him why he destroys ISS haulers, "dey drop gud stuf".
what were you expecting? 
except maybe someone literate
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Bazman
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Posted - 2006.04.08 20:20:00 -
[26]
Its not exactly a victory if he warps off then comes back at 100km and blows you up
-----
Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.04.08 20:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bazman
Its not exactly a victory if he warps off then comes back at 100km and blows you up
Uh...if he managed to do that then I doubt he would even need to warp off in the first place.
~Overlord Eximius Josari
Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
Industrial Giants |
Sidraket
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Posted - 2006.04.08 20:47:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Sidraket on 08/04/2006 20:48:04
I wish there was a way to make attacking people profitable with out always having to blow them up. I feel bad for the poor pirates who fly around in crap just trying to find enough stuff to feed their little pirate family, but then i also think that killing people for killmails alone is stupid.
They need to make it so people with legitimate reasons to kill people (piracy, war, hatred, insanity) dont get shafted, while people who just want killmails, do. Because kill boards are the problim, with killboards everyone wants to fly around in ships designed to do damage to the other ship, if it was not for that there would be many more people willing to fly a full dedicated tackler (like, 6pt). And if this where the case stabs would stop being a problem.
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2006.04.08 21:15:00 -
[29]
This is actually one complaint I have with EVE. The lack of victory conditions that don't require the destruction of the enemy ship. When someone war decs my corp, we have to destroy our enemies, or we have accomplished nothing. The only way we can end the war, is to either pay them off, or destroy enough of their ships, that they get sick of it and quit. Because of this, any time they run from a fight, we have failed.
Personally, I think we need more small player owned structures of importance, since they can't run. If a corp needed to have a small pos in empire before they were allowed to declare war, then we could have something to go after when the enemy runs. |
Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.04.08 21:22:00 -
[30]
I think the NPC infrastructure is too important. And I never really understood why NPC corps can build stations in 1.0 but player corps cant.
~Overlord Eximius Josari
Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
Industrial Giants |
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