incidentally you probably don't actually own the copyright to any user-submitted logos under american copyright law whatever you try to say in your EULA because you didn't get a signed instrument of conveyance, note or memorandum of the transfer signed by the current copyright holder under 17 usc 204(a) and most of those were probably copyrighted under american law

stuff created in-game, you can probably swing under the eula: logos created outside the game and submitted, nope

fortunately for you i believe a failed attempt to transfer a copyright (like your eula) gives you instead the non-revocable royalty-free unlimited licence to do whatever you choose with it that you actually need

Sorry this is taking a little longer than expected, but it's a pretty complicated situation.

"Yo Playerzzz,

If you submit a logo, you are granting CCP a worldwide, irrevocable license to use it in any format both present and future conceived. But we totes don't actually own the logo, that would be silly and unnecessary.

Lorra love,

CCP legal"

Please give me a big cheque for sorting this out for you.

Why, precisely, can't CCP instead be given a universal, assignable, non-revocable, royalty-free licence to use alliance logos as part of the submission process, and avoid this blatant copyright land-grab that will just lead to lawyers getting richer if ever used in anger?

Hey Seagull, remember this?

if thats what your reading then your intel is a little out of date ... read the CSM9 Minutes they have Alliance Logos addressed on pages 94-99

Okay, so the first point is that because alliance logos are part of the EVE client, CCP has to own the logo. Otherwise, we canGÇÖt use it or show it for stuff like Twitch, we canGÇÖt use it during the AT, we canGÇÖt use it on ship models, in comics, or anything else potentially. We basically canGÇÖt use the logo unless we own it, from a legal standpoint. If CCP doesnGÇÖt own the logo, then players can potentially advance IP infringement suits against CCP or other players, and we canGÇÖt take the risk there. Ownership of logos and player created content is consistent across the industry and PC games.

Point two: Because players create their own logos and submit them to CCP, many player believe that they own their logos and that it is their IP. This directly contradicts the EULA, where submitted content belongs to CCP.

For example, if a logo is in EVE, and the logo is in another game, game publishers may find themselves in conflict over who owns the logo.

Thread too long to read and doesn't seem to be a final answer from CCP.

What confuses me is this.

If I make a piece of program, I can give anyone the right to use it in their program - including for free in programs they are going to be selling commercially. While retaining the right to use it as I please myself - including selling the the same right to use to someone third.

This is called a non-exclusive agrement.

Why can't the logo be treated the same way? I don't see the difference on picture and algorithm here?