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Taoist Dragon
No.1 Crazy Fighter Squadron
865
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Posted - 2014.02.19 08:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:
Armchair psychiatrist.
Only your perspective is broken, not the game. As often as i run into disgruntled pilots who fell into my web, i get pilots who i fell into their 'web' and used boosts to escape giving me props. Many of these pilots had boosts themselves and still deliver props for a fight well fought. Or they kill me.
I remember my vigilant dying to a 45 man battlecruiser hot-drop. You search for fair and balanced in a game that is and should be anything but.
EVE is not a 1v1 game. If that is the kind of fighting you value best you move to high sec and drop a can outside jita 4-4 or whatever the modern equivalent is.
Expecting an unarranged fair fight in low-sec is really the epitome of stupidity. You will not find one from me, nor do i expect one from anyone else.
What you are describing is a person using link to fight a person using links. Therefore perfectly balanced. sounds pretty much like a 1v1 to me, only with extra toons.
Links are a 'pay to win' mechanic. pure and simple. You get an in game advantage to buying (or plexing or whatever) multiple accounts to give your 'main' a huge advantage against any other 'comparable' opponent. The original concept of gang links was to give players who group together an advantage to do so. Not to allow 'leet' pvp'ers to ROFLMSTOMP over 'comparable' forces. The mechanics were put in place and to aid in social play but instead were abused by the players and CCP has decided to keep, and somewhat promote the gameplay style (sidekicks etc), as it gives them greater revenue.
That fact that a 45 man BC gang dropped on your vigilant had nothing to do with game mechanics supporting 'pay to win'
And blah blah blah about 'can't afford etc don't fly' and all that **** once again get distorted by the use of links. People also then like to point out 'falcon alt!' but at least they had to commit them to the fight and if you know how to you could counter them with something other than 'buy your own alt' strategy.
Eve is not fair, nor should it be, but it does require balance. When that balance requires people to purchase (or plex or whatever) a second account to be competitive then the mechanics are broken.
And yes when I fly with the guys links are almost always up as it is expected within the FW area. GF are given and taken and ganks happen as well. However the game mechanics are broken and I will never have a second account for links etc.
Yes I will get my arse handed to me by linked pilots, whatever, but when I'm out solo etc it is true solo as I like a challenge. The perspective is not broken but it is twisted by peoples view on mechanical balance vs account balance. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
No.1 Crazy Fighter Squadron
866
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Posted - 2014.02.19 08:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yuri wanna come join the fighter squadron? \o/ That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
No.1 Crazy Fighter Squadron
866
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 10:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:Yuri still makes a fair point. You learn who uses links and add their booster alts to your contact list. When you see them in local you can avoid them if you don't have your own links. (LOL. Here comes so and so with his Tengu and Loki alts. Time to hang out in the POS for a couple of minutes. )
And anytime the answer to an issue is get another account and get your own you have a broken mechanic. There is only one reason mechanics such as these are still in game. They give CCP more revenue due to more accounts. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
871
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Posted - 2014.02.25 01:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
I honestly don't see the problem with coding links on grid. The code is already there in the fleet watchlist - it only displays staus bars of on grid ships. It should be a simple matter to add the same flag to the fleet boosts.
IMO the issue is not a technical one at all and CCP are reluctant to put link alts in too much danger in fear of those accounts being unsubbed.
So we live with an arguably broken mechanic until CCP can come up with another use for alt accounts that require little in game effort to use. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
871
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Smook wrote: Crying about a freely-available game mechanic just makes no sense.
Just because they are freely available (which is arguable at best) doesn't mean it's not broken.
Any time the counter to a mechanic is get another account so you can have your own it is broken. Simple.
Bringing the boosts on grid is a simple way to balance them out. You want the benefit - put them on the field. Alts were not invented for boosts etc, falcon alts were the bane of solo/small gang pvp for some time but they showed up on KM and if you knew how to you could somewhat counter them and killem when they entered the fight.
Then the 'leet' solo pvp'er realised that they could 'solo' with OGB's and people couldn't prove otherwise so they got a raging hard on about all the kills they were getting.
Boosts are fine when you scale up combat and everyone has them but for smaller scale they are just op'd to hell and back. Bring them on grid so they are vulnerable. As boost hunting is something you have to set yourself up for not something you can just do on the fly - you either need your own alt set up for it (again the argument of 'get your own' hence broken) or someone in your fleet needs to set up and remove themselves from being effective in combat.
Bringing them on grid is not as hard as CCP is making it out to be IMO (there is already code that operates on grid only - overview/fleet watchlists). I think they are just scared of all the subs they will lose for alt accounts if they do so, afterall someone has to pay for those accounts even if the players who use them plex it. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
871
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote: I personally will unsub my boost toon over going back to using ECM as dual boxing is not much fun.
Yeah your post pretty much nailed it about the difference when using boost toons v ecm alts.
Personally I used to prefer getting ecm'd as I knew who the ecm alts were and was ready to try and counter them when they appeared on field. As a solo pvp'er I can setup for general pvp and still have a counter plan for ecm'ing. This is not practical if I want to go roam to have a ship that I can pvp in as well as hunt down and kill OGB's toons.
Having said that I really don't worries about OGB too much as I can probably claim only about 15%-20% of my solo deaths are due to OGB.
But the above quote is by far the main reason IMO that CCP won't ever bring them on grid. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
874
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Posted - 2014.02.26 20:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:
If CCP some day forces links on grid they should bring frigate size boost ships too.
Make dessies have a link ability. So small and up plexs would be able to field them but novice is still free from boosts. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
931
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Posted - 2014.03.27 06:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Killboards are a simple way to measure one's effectiveness in combat.
I'm not saying that they are the 'best' measurement but they give some players a tool to measure their performance.
For me personally I don't care about my overall killboard 'score' as such but I do keep tabs on my solo kill record on my personal KB. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
931
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Posted - 2014.04.01 05:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Solo in an MMO is perfectly viable and all the go find friends arguments are silly. We all fly how we want and find fun.
I solo the majority of time however I'm social and like chatting to friends I know in game. Yes I fly with them from time to time and yes I can have extended period where I am pretty much a small gang pilot. Then I get the 'urge' and just have to go a wanderin'
As for Boosts I have no problem with them as a concept. My issue is the extent they boost is way out of balance with everything else in eve. I don't argue costs around having the alts etc as TBH alts is a way of life in eve and if they weren't boosters, they'd be cloaky scouts or ECM alts etc. But the actual cost of the ship + implants is what?! (2b ish?) dunno as I'm never space rich enough to buy those. But it scales very badly as the boosts are generally better than 2-3 full pirate implant sets & deadspace/faction modules.
They are a way of life in eve and I'll actively avoid known booster users while out solo'ing. As for the choice. Yes I'd rather face an ecm alt in a fight as there are ways to counter them much easier than scanning out a booster alt and killing it. Lets face it if it was that easy to scan them and kill them they wouldn't be used so much tbh. And having them show up on KM will stop a lot of the rage around them as people couldn't claim solo when they are using multiple toons.
Oooo and think of the rage when the Leet pvp'ers have all there BC dropped to next to nothing for killing that 10mil isk frig with a a bil+ worth of ships etc. It would be worth it just to see the rage on the forums That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
933
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Posted - 2014.04.11 00:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Damen Apol wrote:Diesel47 wrote:My opinion:
When links used by a small gang to wreck a blob = good.
When links used by solo pilots because they suck = bad.
It is a good and a bad thing. But mostly a bad thing. Links don't turn a bad pilot into a good pilot I assure you. The solo pilots that suck still suck. Is it bad that they use links as a crutch? Yea, but you can still kill them because, again, they suck anyway.
Not quite untrue.
When the links provide such a huge mechanical bonus the pilot doesn't have to be 'good' to completely stomp a decent pilot is a supposedly 1v1.
The main reason links will probably never be on grid is money pure and simple. CCP don't want to the revenue generated by the accounts for link alt.
Lets face it the argument about brink links on grid will only work for blobs. Well that won't actually change a great deal of activity associated with blobs now. All it will stop is the odd good pvp'er harassing the blobs and killing off stragglers.
The station games argument. Nothing will change as most people who play station games have OGB pretty much all the time anyway.
Lets face it if boosts came ongrid very little would change in the grand scheme of combat apart from having another high value target on the field. The tactics would slightly alter but in general not much else would.
OGB's are purely a money making exercise that a few people on either side of the arguments use to polish and wave their own epeens around. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
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Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
933
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Posted - 2014.04.11 00:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:I'd like to come at this from another direction. We've heard a lot of reasons why it's "OK" to have them of grid. I'd like to compile a list of why they "need" to be off grid.
Reasons boosting ships NEED to be off grid:
(I'm asking, so please - make me a list) Easy. Here are a few of the basic ones I have seen/heard and said myself before. Reason 1: Because CCP want an extra $15 a month from people. If they go ongrid - CCP will take a huge financial hit and people will spend that $15 a month on new Steam games instead of Eve. Reason 2: Station games are all that Eve will be as it is the only play style that will suit ongrid boosting. Reason 3: The people who are complaining about boosts will just move on to something else and say it is 'unfair' instead of adapting and competing. That is the nature of the whinger. They blame everyone else or 'the system' for their own failures and expect everyone else to change to make up for their shortcomings. Some misguided fools even think an MMO should be 'solo' when and if they choose. Reason 4: Some people might even feel that CCP has ripped them off and unsub all accounts. They will see there is no point training anything long term or investing their play time in Eve as CCP could render it useless and all their toons unsaleable in the future. Reason 5: The single account 'solo' dreamer is not as valuable a customer as someone with multiple accounts who gives CCP more $$ each month. I am sure others can come up with more reasons.
Reason 1, 4 and 5 are the only reason boosts will stay off grid. Unless CCP decide to take the commercial risk (they won't)
Reason 2 and 3 are general things that happen all over eve since day 1 and will probably continue till eve shuts down. These have nothing to do with OGB per say.
OGB's are a fantastic commercial idea that CCP has taken full advantage off. They know this and any nerfs to them would probably just be substituted with something else that would get peoples backs up.
Serendipity - it has nothing whatsoever to do with losing ships. Expensive shite gets lost all the time. The risk averse among the playerbase will always want to protect their investment. it is purely a commercial activity by CCP and all the whining about it won't change that. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
941
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:You can say it has nothing to do with losing ships and I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.
Nah,
Cost of losing ships has never been a prohibiting factor in eve apart from the very early months/year maybe. If it was then there wouldn't be the proliferation of supers etc that CCP have expressed some concerns about (don't ask me for links as I can't be bothered to find them, but remember something mentioned like that.)
There will always be a minority of people who whine and complain whenever they lose any ship. This will never change as the risk averse are quite a big group.
For me personally I don't think they will ever be moved on grid, even though I'd like them to be, but I would like them added to killmails though. This would stop a few (very few) elite pvp'ers who claim to be solo bragging about their purposed successes when they kill a T1 frig in a boosted/linked T1 frig for example and also give me some feedback when I get stomped in a 1v1 that should have been even or in my favour. It lets me know if I did something wrong, picked bad tactics, or it the other guy was actually boosted to high heaven in which I wouldn't have stood a chance anyways. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
942
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Posted - 2014.04.12 21:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Damen Apol wrote:Would you also like to see the implants and boosters that the pilot had consumed on killmails? Because running Snake implants with some Quafe and Zor's link is going to give you similar results to receiving OGBs
I'm on the fence with these tbh. At least they are being put on the field and risked in combat to provide those boosts. But a well skilled/equipped booster provides boosts similar to multiple full sets of implants (Speed, tank and ewar/tackle etc)
Yes I'd like to see any and all effects on the combat abilities posted in the KM but that is mainly from a AAR analysis point of view. And if I were looking at the rating systems of some KM sites (BC and Z-killboard) then yes I'd like all combat effects added because then you could factor these in your point rating for each kill.
2 T2 fitted T1 frigs in a 1v1 for example with both pilots using clean clones and no OGB would have a point rating of say 10 for the victor.
If the winning pilot used combat enhancing implants then the points would say be 8
If the winning pilot was the one without implants then the points value would say be 12.
And so on and so forth with the points being modified based on how many enhancements the winner had v the loser as well as the number of players on the km v the relative ship classes.
But like I say that is from a self performance analysis point of view. The main reason I'd like to see OGB's on KM is mainly to **** off those 'elite' 1v1'ers who are often multiple link boosted that brag about killing a comparable ship while boosted to the max. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
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