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What do all you missile users do about fast frigates?

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Ralumos	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:16:00 - [1] I'm fairly new to the game (closing on 1mil sp) so forgive me if I reek of nub... I just got a Ferox and I have it fitted with 5 Heavy Launchers, this is upgraded from a Caracal with 5 Assault Launchers, or 3 Assault and 2 Heavy depending on the situation. I did a few level 2 missions, and my missiles were doing about 28-58 damage to the frigates I was fighting. They were great against larger ships but they just couldn't do anything to the frigates. I was still successful, but it took FOREVER, not to mention using about a million isk in missiles. I have a target painter that was running the entire time (I've yet to notice a difference with it), and these frigates were orbiting me at about 500 m/s. So clearly speed is the issue, not radius. I was webified to **** so I couldn't get away from their blasters either. Do you people fit webifiers for the rare situation when a frigate gets close enough to use it? Or blasters in the remaining two spots I suppose? I currently only have Target Navigation Prediction to rank 3...does rank 5 make enough difference? Everyone I've talked to says frigates are not a problem for heavy missiles, so I'm wondering what gives?
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:18:00 - [2] Edited by: HippoKing on 10/04/2006 13:18:54 sig IS the issue, not speed. you have to be going well over 1000m/s to even hope for a reduction in damage from heavies fired by a average skilled pilot (lvl4) Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Ralumos	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:21:00 - [3] Like I said, I have the skill at 3...are you telling me one more rank is going to boost the damage from 28 to 150?
Yaro	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:28:00 - [4] the question is were u using the right missiles ? an example, I use raven with cruise missiles and i hit very fast orbiting frigates for 50 damage without any target painters (my missiles skills r level 4)
Sirilonwe	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:32:00 - [5] Get precision missiles, use drones, and train skills. That's all I can tell to you. ____________________________________ Free ISP users, read this if you have connections problems [b]I'm on Eris side!
Ernest Graefenberg	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:33:00 - [6] Make sure you have the correct rat-specific damage type, make sure you use light drones with their racial damage as well and switch target if one of them MWDs for a bit, as their MWDs are fake ones and won't increase sig radius (a 40 sig/2500v frig is going to be able to withstand a decent beating). And 50ish a hit sounds quite fine honestly.
Cade Morrigan	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:50:00 - [7] You need missile skills like Guided Missile Precision. You need drones doing the right type of damage for the rat. You need the right damage type for the rat you are shooting. You don't need tech 2 ammo to hit L3 mission frigs. You don't need a target painter or webber. I run 5x heavies and have no trouble killing frigs with these paltry missile skills: Guided Missile Precision 3 Heavy Missiles 3 Missile Bombardment 4 Missile Launcher Operation 5 Missile Projection 3 Rapid Launch 4 Target Navigation Prediction 4 Warhead Upgrades 2 -= Save the Gila! Fix its grid and cpu! =-
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Ralumos Like I said, I have the skill at 3...are you telling me one more rank is going to boost the damage from 28 to 150? no, i'm saying speed isn't your problem here. its sig Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:50:00 - [9] Edited by: Bottled Brain on 10/04/2006 13:51:59 But they always hit!!!111eleven Npc frig orbiting at 750m/s (explosion velocity of heavy missiles) or lower: heavy missile - 125 explosion radius: 125 x 0.8 (skill)= 100 target signature radius: 40 damage reduction: 40/100 x 150 (ignoring damage related skills) = 60 Use assault launchers for lvl2 missions... And read the sticky...
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Make sure you have the correct rat-specific damage type, make sure you use light drones with their racial damage as well and switch target if one of them MWDs for a bit, as their MWDs are fake ones and won't increase sig radius (a 40 sig/2500v frig is going to be able to withstand a decent beating). And 50ish a hit sounds quite fine honestly. uh, you are wrong about the MWDS. they bump the sig through the roof. ALWAYS shoot MWDing rat frigs Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin

Astrum Proeliator	Posted - 2006.04.10 13:59:00 - [11] Edited by: Astrum Proeliator on 10/04/2006 14:02:35 Edited by: Astrum Proeliator on 10/04/2006 13:59:50 If you're trying using tech 2 ammo on lvl 3s, you'll be making a loss, regularly. I've been doing lvl 3s in my Ferox for months, 5x heavies, 2 med nos. Drones skills up, you should be able to plow through them. The only thing you'll need to work on for lvl3s in a BC, is your tank. And be careful how you agro the spawn...
Charles Tucker	Posted - 2006.04.10 14:05:00 - [12] Kill the frigg before they start to orbit you!. Warp in at 80km and kill the friggs first. When they try to come close they use MWD, and they get same signature penalty like every player. So they die by one or two volleys. In your 2 remaining high slots on your ferox fit 2 small guns (i use medium beam Laser II, but 125mm rails do the job as well as the small beams) and you can hit the NPC's if they get close. A webbifier is always a good idea against friggs in close combat.
Al Haquis	Posted - 2006.04.10 15:35:00 - [13] Or a simple solution is to use painter. Yes it does work great against small frigs while using heavy missiles. With love from Al Haquis. To the Op try fitting a painter and take some pot shots at belt rats and then turn it of and compare the results. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Council Member, Tahiri Warrior Masuat'aa Forums
Ernest Graefenberg	Posted - 2006.04.10 15:45:00 - [14] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Make sure you have the correct rat-specific damage type, make sure you use light drones with their racial damage as well and switch target if one of them MWDs for a bit, as their MWDs are fake ones and won't increase sig radius (a 40 sig/2500v frig is going to be able to withstand a decent beating). And 50ish a hit sounds quite fine honestly. uh, you are wrong about the MWDS. they bump the sig through the roof. ALWAYS shoot MWDing rat frigs Really? I assumed mostly because they're happy to use it in deadspace et cetera it wouldn't get any of the other MWD effects either. Also, depending somewhat on the speed they're breaking an MWDing frig will still take less damage than a regular cruising one (they're definitely above the 1k explo velocity of HMs, and at about 3k the damage starts to falloff if I remember correctly). I'd still be interested in some conclusive testing in that regard. Ie a webbed MWD NPC frigate would have to be taking nearly double the damage a regular cruising one does.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.10 15:50:00 - [15] Edited by: HippoKing on 10/04/2006 15:51:04 my heavies hit MWDing NPCs for between 150 and 250 damage (fired from a cerberus with heavies 5 and HAC 4 thats pretty close to full - i can break 300 on crusers though. on the ohter hand, it doesn't matter exact numbers, i one volley pretty much all MWDing NPC frigs. The only ones that MWD far too fast for the damage to increase are spider drones edit: i have no web Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.04.10 15:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 10/04/2006 15:46:00 Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Make sure you have the correct rat-specific damage type, make sure you use light drones with their racial damage as well and switch target if one of them MWDs for a bit, as their MWDs are fake ones and won't increase sig radius (a 40 sig/2500v frig is going to be able to withstand a decent beating). And 50ish a hit sounds quite fine honestly. uh, you are wrong about the MWDS. they bump the sig through the roof. ALWAYS shoot MWDing rat frigs Really? I assumed mostly because they're happy to use it in deadspace et cetera it wouldn't get any of the other MWD effects either. Also, depending somewhat on the speed they're breaking an MWDing frig will still take less damage than a regular cruising one (they're definitely above the 1k explo velocity of HMs, and at about 3k the damage starts to fall off badly if I remember correctly). I'd still be interested in some conclusive testing in that regard. Ie a webbed MWD NPC frigate would have to be taking nearly double the damage a regular cruising one does. There's a saying about assumption. Shoot the mwding rats. Preferably in a 1400mm tempest while they are approx 60ks from you with a transversal of less than 50. One hit wonder :) To the op - heavies work fine for level 3s, with average skills, although i tend to ignore the friggies orbiting me and let my drones kill them while missiles shoot stuff further away. sgb
Cade Morrigan	Posted - 2006.04.10 16:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Al Haquis Or a simple solution is to use painter. Yes it does work great against small frigs while using heavy missiles. Because you are so sincere in your pimping of them, I'm going to test a target painter again. A few months back I was entirely unimpressed using it on my ferox and found the slot much better spent on tank. -= Save the Gila! Fix its grid and cpu! =-
Ralumos	Posted - 2006.04.10 16:46:00 - [18] I'm not sure if anyone read my post...but I'm doing level TWO missions, not three... I AM using a target painter, and it's making no difference either way. I have level 3 target navigation prediction, I don't have guided missile precision at all yet, but I would think the target painter would at least partially make up for that. So is that the answer? Just get that skill and everything will be better? As far as killing the frigs before they get close, my missiles were doing 28 at 60km too, and I can only fly away for so long before they catch up, even with my AB on.
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.04.10 17:11:00 - [19] Edited by: Bottled Brain on 10/04/2006 17:12:21 The target painter increases the sig radius of your target and does about the same like the guided prescision skill at lvl4. target sig radius: 40 explosion radius: 125 40 x 1.25 / 125 = 0.4 40 / (125 x 0.8) = 0.4 Originally by: Bottled Brain ... Use assault launchers for lvl2 missions... And read the sticky...(edit: the missile guide thingy...)
Koori	Posted - 2006.04.10 17:28:00 - [20] If heavies are not working on your lvl 2 missions try fitting assalut missile lunchers. It should be alot faster, but you will have to be somwhat closer to the targets.

Retrax	Posted - 2006.04.10 18:29:00 - [21] Edited by: Retrax on 10/04/2006 18:34:08 Rule of thumb: weapon classes match ship classes. Frigates are the hardest class to hit, so use anti-frigate weapons against frigates. Answer to your question: Use light missiles in Assault launchers... probably the best anti-frigate missiles. I say probably because rockets are sometimes better and soemtimes worse. Train up your skills of course, but don't expect them to make heavy missiles do 150 damage vs. frigates. Even at highest skill levels, light missiles will still do more damage against frigates than heavy missiles. If you're doing an all frig mission, take all light missiles, maybe some rockets. No need for heavies. It's just a waste of ammo unless there are cruisers there to use them on. In fact, light missiles will do better damage against cruisers than they will against frigs. All cruisers, maybe one or two frigs on mission? Take all heavies. "Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." - Dr. Wernher von Braun
Wild Fox	Posted - 2006.04.10 19:03:00 - [22] First, a Ferox is overkill for level 2 missions. A Caracal is more than sufficient (as in, shields never dropping below 60% in any mission). Second, level 2 mission have a LOT of frigates and a few cruisers. Accordingly, fit 2-3 heavy launchers and 3-2 assault launchers. Get some drones, they help. Get a web if you need to, but really, I have zero problem killing frigates in a Caracal with 3 heavy and 2 assault launchers. I like kiting and sniping from a distance -- that's why I use the heavies. A 5 x Assault Launchers setup is probably more efficent for level 2 missions. Oh, and I tried the target painter and was severely underwhelmed. A waste of a mid slot.
Jennifae	Posted - 2006.04.10 19:05:00 - [23] 4 words target painter, precision cruise
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.04.10 19:30:00 - [24] The target painter does exactly what it should do. It increases the sig radius by 25%. T1 Missiles are balanced by built-in damage limitation regarding ship sizes. And a target painter, especially not a single single painter, is supposed to turn your cruiser sized missile into a frig weapon. interceptor sig radius: 24 frig signature radius: 35 assault ship signature radius: 28 destroyer signature radius: 75 light missile explosion radius:50 x 0.75 (skill) = 37.5 + painter => 30 heavy missile explosion radius: 125 x 0.75 (skill) = 93.75 + painter => 75 So, one painter helps light missiles to hit frigates and not heavy missiles to hit frigates. It¦s quite obvious that heavy missiles are no anti-frig weapons. At higher skill lvls you can reduce the restrictions with pure damage. The damage reduction is still there but the reduced damage is effective enough to kill the frig in an acceptable time.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.10 21:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Make sure you have the correct rat-specific damage type, make sure you use light drones with their racial damage as well and switch target if one of them MWDs for a bit, as their MWDs are fake ones and won't increase sig radius (a 40 sig/2500v frig is going to be able to withstand a decent beating). And 50ish a hit sounds quite fine honestly. NPC MWD's have increased their sig radius for a long time now "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Brem Watson	Posted - 2006.04.10 21:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Wild Fox First, a Ferox is overkill for level 2 missions. A Caracal is more than sufficient (as in, shields never dropping below 60% in any mission). Second, level 2 mission have a LOT of frigates and a few cruisers. Accordingly, fit 2-3 heavy launchers and 3-2 assault launchers. Get some drones, they help. Get a web if you need to, but really, I have zero problem killing frigates in a Caracal with 3 heavy and 2 assault launchers. I like kiting and sniping from a distance -- that's why I use the heavies. A 5 x Assault Launchers setup is probably more efficent for level 2 missions. Oh, and I tried the target painter and was severely underwhelmed. A waste of a mid slot. +1 Sure there were some times when i had to warp out and come back in but I never have any problems with killing frigs in my Carac or Ferox. I don't have painters either. For drones, went from 4 light to 2 med and 1 light. The med drones do good damage to frigs when I pile them up on one.


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