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Alundil
Sky Fighters
403
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Posted - 2014.02.17 20:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:Back to the OP... First reply nailed it. If anything, Eve is already too large for it's player base. While care bears howl about not getting one jump into low/null before being killed- the fact is that once beyond border systems/bottlenecks- one can make a dozen or more jumps without so much as seeing another name in local. Vast, vast tracts of Eve are wholly uninhabited while only a small area has a thick population density.
It's not a matter of space per se, but rather 'safe' space. Eve's population isn't broken down by activity but rather by risk avoidance level. You could double, triple, quadruple the amount of 'non-safe' space in Eve and it wouldn't matter at all. But if you expanded high sec, with more risk-free rewards and expectation of zero PvP ever....then more players would move there and thin the current empire herd a bit.
Don't forget CCP did expand space with the addition of Wormholes. But that is dangerous, non-safe space and so a very few people that would have left high sec anyway found a home there. The vast majority remained rooted to high sec and it's risk-free game play.
More activity is not related to the amount of space in Eve, only the amount of 'safe' space to do any given activity in. Care bears aren't leaving the safety of NPC cops regardless of how much acreage you offer them.
Well put
Clone mechanics enchancements
Deep Space Probe Revival |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
4902
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Posted - 2014.02.17 20:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:I would really really really like to see some statistics of how many hisec mission runners are actually nullsec player's mission running alts.
A number I can easily pull out of my sleeve is about half the incursion runners I've talked to and about two thirds of the mission runners I talk to are the hi sec mission-running alts of null sec people who are in hi sec for various reasons including CTA-dodging, blops-dodging, or "just don't want to deal with politics today."
There are people who claim that null sec folks come to hi sec for the ISK, but the majority that I have spoken to are actually in hi sec to avoid the other people in their own null sec alliance. One of the main reasons for the low population in null sec is the people in null sec.
As for assertions that people aren't leaving hi sec to head to low and null: changes to exploration and faction warfare drastically increased the number of people in lowsec. Make of that what you will.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1472
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Posted - 2014.02.17 20:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:
Then came that day when I agreed with one of the Goonswarm.
As a filthy highsec pubbie I can state the following:
There's rarely any reason for me to go to low aside from every now and then when I feel like doing some frigate PVP. Never even went to null. The only time I'm planning on actually going to null is when I train for a covops frigate to run data and relic sites in relative safety.
So I take it you'll be happy as a Goon pet, or a scrub in one of the proxy corps? ... or maybe a renter?
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken
Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
221
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Posted - 2014.02.17 20:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
@OP
But less interaction.
That will be bad
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unreadOATHS wants you. Come to the WH |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
277
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Posted - 2014.02.17 20:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:Your Dad Naked wrote:Low-sec needs to become safer. In it's current state PVE'ers see no reason to go there for PVE. As a result low-sec population is basically small-scale PVPers, people transporting stuff into hi/null, and FW PLEXers.
I would suggest bringing CONCORD into low-sec, with two key points:
1) Response time scales down much like in hi-sec; 0.4 might have a 25-30 second response time, where as 0.1 would be closer to a minute. Numbers can be debated, perhaps response times could be a bit longer or scale further.
2) CONCORD does not automatically blow up your ship. They are insanely strong and virtually impossible to kill, but if you warp out before they get you (or scram you) you're safe. They will chase you, but will leave you alone in certain areas; starbase, PVE complex, etc.
Without such a change people simply won't flock their for anything besides the 3 things mentioned at first. Just no. Stick to high sec, you *****.. don't try to ruin the game for everyone who actually has a pair. I'm not sure how exactly it would be ruining the game....? Please explain? Here's my PoV: 1. Low sec pvp can be found easily in FW which doesn't cause a concord response so it wouldn't ruin faction warfare (good) 2. It would ruin FW Awoxxing (good) 3. Piracy is dead anyway. 4. You can do the exact same thing in npc null sec as you can in low sec in regards to killing anyone everywhere anytime... 5. Low sec mining is non-existant. 6. Low sec missions are non-existant. I like his idea. It would bring balance.
It would effectively mean expanding high sec and eradicating the defining characteristic of low sec, i.e. the lack of a punitive Concord response for initiating PVP away from a gate or station.
In contrast with NPC null the absence of bubbles makes a world of difference in terms of allowing free movement and docking/undocking.
It would ruin the game for all of us who choose to try to survive out there by our wits, instead of relying on some automated babysit mechanic.
Now, to move on to that impressively clueless list of points you came up with,
if piracy is dead, how come low sec mining/missioning is "non-existant"?
May I cordially invite you to come to low sec Placid and put your uninformed theories about my residential area to the test? Those natives running level 5s will be the least of your worries.
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Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
114
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Posted - 2014.02.17 21:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Arkady Romanov wrote:I would really really really like to see some statistics of how many hisec mission runners are actually nullsec player's mission running alts. A number I can easily pull out of my sleeve is about half the incursion runners I've talked to and about two thirds of the mission runners I talk to are the hi sec mission-running alts of null sec people who are in hi sec for various reasons including CTA-dodging, blops-dodging, or "just don't want to deal with politics today." There are people who claim that null sec folks come to hi sec for the ISK, but the majority that I have spoken to are actually in hi sec to avoid the other people in their own null sec alliance. One of the main reasons for the low population in null sec is the people in null sec. As for assertions that people aren't leaving hi sec to head to low and null: changes to exploration and faction warfare drastically increased the number of people in lowsec. Make of that what you will.
That's very interesting, if anecdotal. You raise some good points.
I had forgotten about the exploration changes, and I believe you're right that that has encouraged more people into non-hisec areas of the game. It just seems that even more are going from null to hisec for Incursions and mission running, than people leaving hisec for exploration.
I'm not sure about "its the people in null" as a reason though. Sure I bet there are instances where people want to avoid a losing battle (i.e. when their alliance is in the middle of a failure cascade) and thus sit out the CTAs, but I would have thought "I can't be bothered with dealing with the risk of someone dropping on me today" would be a plausible meaning of "the people in null."
I really would like to see CCP do a survey of all the players that would identify where each player believes their home region to be, and what they spend their time doing. Basically I'd just love for CCP to get concrete figures of how many nullsec players are spending their ISK making time on hisec alts, and why they aren't actually using the space they're fighting over. |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2414
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Posted - 2014.02.17 21:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:Player desnitiy in nullsec is really low. You can do alot of jumps without encountering anybody after you got past the bottleneck systems. Even if we would get new space whats the point? People who want to stay in highsec will stay in highsec.
I just want to point out the main problem with low and null that you brought up...... bottle necks. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
114
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Posted - 2014.02.17 21:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:Cheng Musana wrote:Player desnitiy in nullsec is really low. You can do alot of jumps without encountering anybody after you got past the bottleneck systems. Even if we would get new space whats the point? People who want to stay in highsec will stay in highsec. I just want to point out the main problem with low and null that you brought up...... bottle necks.
Yes, but is that a cause, or an effect?
Is population density low because people are constantly getting caught at chokepoints and thus have been trained over time not to go to null or
Population density is low for other reasons, therefore the most reliable way to get kills is to set up a gatecamp on a chokepoint system, so that you can kill the few people who are trying to move in and out. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
865
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
There's plenty of routes already. I remember when my clone wasn't cooled down and I had to travel from the military 5 system to the staging system, man that was a lot of gates. In some alliances you have to take as many as two jump bridges! |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken
Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
225
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
The State has jump bridges?!?!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH
"Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
866
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:I wouldn't say that we need more nullsec. I think we have plenty of null sec, however changes need to be made to try and entice more pilots to venture out there (who are not apart of the large alliances).
However, I wouldn't mind seeing another low sec region like Genesis (non-factional warfare), that shares the same traits as Great Wildlands, in respect to the amount of systems that have stations.
Generally speaking though, I don't think we need more space... just more reasons for the smaller gangs/solo pilots to venture into low/null sec.
The changes that got more day trippers into nullsec weren't to do with risk and reward but logistics.
Exploration used to tie you to one area, you would have to use the scanning frigate, reship into a combat ship. And then reship again into the frigate if you wanted to use the hacking/arch bonuses. That's two reships, you don't want to go too many jumps. The only solutions were a silly arbitrator fit with no bonuses or a tengu which was a long train. So now newer people can use just the frigate and go as far as they please into deep space.
Now there's a depot and sister of eve ships they might put some rat sites back too so there's better day tripper prey for the residents.
Same thing with the venture, before you either had to use the barge which ofc no one is going to take into 0.0 alone, or a bantam or osprey which needed jet canning, so again, the reshipping problem which meant you couldn't go far from your high sec home.
This is why you see so many people in ventures and herons, because they let you travel far for a longer time.
So if they want more high seccer venturers then this is the pattern they need to follow. Lots of players do go out to 0.0 not for the money, but just for the sake of it, or to have a look, the money is secondary. |
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ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
117
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Posted - 2014.02.18 02:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Great Ideas keep them coming, topic moved to an appropriate Forum.
On On
ISD Flidais Asagiri
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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Karle Tabot
State War Academy
Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2014.02.18 13:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:Cheng Musana wrote:Player desnitiy in nullsec is really low. You can do alot of jumps without encountering anybody after you got past the bottleneck systems. Even if we would get new space whats the point? People who want to stay in highsec will stay in highsec. I just want to point out the main problem with low and null that you brought up...... bottle necks.
Those are a major part of what I had reference to. The "more routes" that I mentioned was about making it far more difficult to effectively bottleneck the major gateways into and out of null sec. The fact these are relatively limited in number makes it easier for them to be gate camped and/or bubbled.
There seems to be this very large amount of space with no one much in it, and all the increasing the rewards of null sec has not really changed that. As another poster mentioned, some of the new ships and deployable structures made it easier to get past those traps into null sec. So it seems the key to why null sec remains so sparsely populated lies in the fact the risk at the relatively few entry points is just too high.
There are probably many ways to reduce that risk, but one seems to be to greatly increase the entry points and routes.
Risk measured over all the space of null sec is not unreasonable. But if you measure it over just those bottlenecks, it is very high, and judging by the choices of most to avoid it, too high. |
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