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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.11 14:35:00 -
[1]
I don't want anyone to post their zealot setups, I just want to know if this setup can do level 4 missions against sansha rats. Mind you I will have a low-grade slave implant set implanted giving me 33.53% more armor, and I will have near maxed out skills. Oh, and please only comment if you currently do or have since RMR done level 4 missions in a zealot(Hanns, Toaster Oven, ect...).
4x Heavy Pulse Laser II 1x Medium Diminishing Nosferatu
1x 10mn Afterburner II 1x Fleeting Webber(90%) 1x Cap Recharger II
1x Medium Armor Repairer II 1x Armor EM Hardener II 1x Armor Thermic Hardener II 1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1x 400mm Rolled Tungsten Plate 1x Heat Sink II 1x Capacitor Power Relay
I can run AB, rep, guns, everything forever. I get 4821 armor, 663 max speed, 86EM and 78therm resists(fighting sanshas), and 401 DPS with conflagration(+5% damage and +5% RoF implants).
Is it possible? Would it be tuff or easier? --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Abyss Jack
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Posted - 2006.04.11 16:02:00 -
[2]
it would take to long with shortrange setup, i would recommend beams. Remove the AB and repleace with a 2nd webber or tracking comp, also remove the plating and repleace with heatsink II and maybe a 3rd heatsink?!
t2 ammunition is also a waste...
---------------------------------------------- Looking for a sig
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Astrum Ludus
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Posted - 2006.04.11 16:29:00 -
[3]
2 webbers with beams? why's this so they can hit things up close?
Too the OP, sorry, I don't know.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.11 17:06:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Spartan III on 11/04/2006 17:06:55
Originally by: Abyss Jack it would take to long with shortrange setup, i would recommend beams. Remove the AB and repleace with a 2nd webber or tracking comp, also remove the plating and repleace with heatsink II and maybe a 3rd heatsink?!
t2 ammunition is also a waste...
I said you have to have experience flying the zealot in level 4 missions so please delete your post....
(you get webbed a lot in level 4s and the armor allows you time to kill the webbers and get your transversal back up) --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Antrastabobica
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Posted - 2006.04.11 17:55:00 -
[5]
I do missions lvl4 in a zealot with my alt... except world collides, angel extravaganza.
setup:
4 hvy beam t2 1 tractor beam I
1 10mn ab t2 1 webi (90%) 1 cap recharger t2
1 medium armor repair t2 1 energized thermal t2 2 energized adaptive nano t2 1 heat sink t2 2 cap power relay.
Dun use active hardness dude, with passive modules my thermal hardness r better than with active ones.... |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.11 20:26:00 -
[6]
Thanks Antrastabobica
/me waits for Hanns... --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Toaster Oven
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Posted - 2006.04.11 20:26:00 -
[7]
Um, well it's possible. But it's not gonna be easy with that setup. Problem is, you don't have enough armor or resists to survive if you go up close and get webbed/scrambled. You can easily get 5-6 webbers in a spawn. Taking them out quickly is nowhere near as easy as in lvl3 missions. In lvl4 missions, there are a buttload of Sansha rats that use tracking disruptors. Net effect is that they'll reduce the tracking and range of your guns down to ~1/3 of their stats. You can count on not hitting much of anything for the first 15-20 seconds of engaging a good size spawn.
If you want to use pulses and go up close, drop the 400mm. It's worthless. Fit a 1600mm tungsten and focused medium pulses and get your HP up around 10K. Personally, I prefer using beams and AB and staying outside 30km where cruisers can't reach me. Either way, I'd suggest you train up your armor compensation skills and buy some Corpum A-Type passive hardeners. They're not that expensive and the cap you save goes a long way.
BTW, it's a helluva lot easier doing lvl4 missions against Angels versus Sanshas with a Zealot.
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Hanns
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Posted - 2006.04.11 21:06:00 -
[8]
looks like you should be ok on most missions, on the otherhand there are a few missions that get me to half armor pretty fast if the whole group aggros with my 1600 plate and full slave set.
ive done a few missions with a 800mm plate and heavy pulses, but i jus tprefer the massive buffer that you get with 1600 plate, if i was you id get rid of thos active hardeners asap, get your compensations to 5 (best skills ive ever trained) and energized plated realyl start to shine, especially the faction ones, and damage specific centum/corpum energized aint to expensive, its onyl the adaptives that are silly expensive.
Originally by: Tuxford a new retribution bonus. +1 med slot per level
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Hotice
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Posted - 2006.04.11 21:23:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Hotice on 11/04/2006 21:24:23 Don't use pulse for lvl 4, you will take on too much damage. It's range is too short you will get webbed by multipule ceptors then take damage from entire group. Not a good thing. So, use t2 heavy beams and keep range.
My setup:
4 t2 heavy beams 1 small dim. nos
1 t2 ab 1 fleet webber 1 t2 cap recharger
1 t2 medium armor repairer 2 t2 armor hardeners 3 heatsinks II 1 cap power relay
You have to manage your cap while use this setup. Or you could replace 1 heatsink with cap power relay to run everything 23x7. I use the above setup for lvl 4 missions without any problem. No need to warp out and never was in any real risk. The key is to take out ceptors at 63km, once they are gone, you can take your time for the rest. With webber, you can kill anything with heavy beams no problem.
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Lefia
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Posted - 2006.04.12 02:37:00 -
[10]
Mine is a variation of one already posted.
Hi: 4x Heavy Pulse II 1x Tractor Beam I
Med: 1x 10MN AB II 1x Fleeting Web 1x Cap Recharge II
Low: 1x Med Armor Rep II 2x Energized Adaptive Nano II 1x Energized Therm II 2x Cap Power Relay 1x 800mm plate II (or tungsten)
Upgrade to faction hardeners/repper as soon as possible, If you don't mind micromanaging your cap, you could probably toss one of the CPRs and add a T2 heat sink (haven't tried this myself, but thinking about it). But as said before, get the armor compensator skills up to 4/5 and go for energized hardeners... they are far better than active ones for the zeal.
Originally by: hired goon I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had.
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Antrastabobica
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Posted - 2006.04.12 02:50:00 -
[11]
The secret here r: Never stop ur ship, stay allways in moviment or orbiting... most ships wont hit u well... |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.12 15:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hanns looks like you should be ok on most missions, on the otherhand there are a few missions that get me to half armor pretty fast if the whole group aggros with my 1600 plate and full slave set.
ive done a few missions with a 800mm plate and heavy pulses, but i jus tprefer the massive buffer that you get with 1600 plate, if i was you id get rid of thos active hardeners asap, get your compensations to 5 (best skills ive ever trained) and energized plated realyl start to shine, especially the faction ones, and damage specific centum/corpum energized aint to expensive, its onyl the adaptives that are silly expensive.
Wow, i didn't realize those hardeners were so cheap, but anyway how should I go about fitting a 1600mm plate? Only thing I could think of would be taking off the adaptive nano and the heatsink and putting on 2 RCU IIs or changing the guns to quad light beams or focused pulse. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.12 15:28:00 -
[13]
Came up with this setup. Decreased range and speed, but double the armor a little more DPS, better cap, better tracking, and better resistances. With Nos I can run everything, and I can also run aurora crystals giving 36km max range.
4x Quad Light Beam Laser II 1x Medium Diminishing Nos
1x 10mn AB II 1x 90% web 1x Capacitor Recharger II
1x Medium Rep II 1x Centum A-Type Energized Reflective Membrane 1x Centum A-Type Energized Thermic Membrane 1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1x 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plate 2x Heat Sink II --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:05:00 -
[14]
/bump --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Lefia
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Posted - 2006.04.12 22:47:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lefia on 12/04/2006 22:48:20 Switch the quad light beams for Focused medium pulse IIs, and drop the NOS. The NOS is pointless for level 4 missions. Rats don't supply much cap and you should be able to overcome their tanks without it (in fact I've never seen a NOS actually effect a RAT tank appreciably... even though they are supposed to). Plus dropping the Nos will free up 200 grid with which to fit those focused pulse.
Also drop at least one of your heat sinks and slap on a CPR. Quad lights are the gattling laser of the cruisers, pointless. With 1 or no heat sinks focused medium pulse will do more damage. Zealots live in close, so the reduced range shouldn't be an issue.
Originally by: hired goon I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.13 03:28:00 -
[16]
Thanks Lefia, I will try both setups and see which works better for me. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.13 14:50:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Spartan III on 13/04/2006 14:52:05 Ok after testing the two setups the only bonus I get from using FMPLs over QLBL is 1km range and about 2km of falloff. I have 17.5% less DPS because of having to switch a heatsink to CPR. I have more cap use because FMPLs use more cap than QLBLs. I have less cap per second as the med nos really helps cap more than a CPR. I also have less tracking, and with T2 crystals I do more em and less thermal damage which everyone knows therm is better.
Also, a rat does not have a very fast cap recharge but he does have a lot of base capacitor and before the base capacitor runs out I will have killed the rat and moved on to the next one so no problem there. For example a common "Centus Lord" sansha's battleship has 1000 second cap recharge but 3000 capacitor so since I take 36 cap per second I can drain him for 83 second without calculating his cap recharge which will give me even longer. I can destroy the enemy ship in 36-50 seconds so thats more than enough cap for my nos to run while I kill him off.
Of course I will be fighting a lot more cruisers in these missions than battleships which do have less cap than battleships, but still have a minimum of 600(2 crusiers have this) and an average of 1000. But, the cruisers with only 600 cap take 7-10 seconds to destroy so i will destroy them and move on before he runs out of cap. The cruisers with more cap (800-1000) only take 14-20 seconds to kill and I have over 30 seconds to kill them.
Pros of your setup: longer optimal and falloff, 17% less damage.
Cons of your setup: Lower cap per second, Lower damage, less thermal damage with T2 crystals, more laser cap use, less tracking, rats are not hurt by a nos(which does help), QLBLs take a lot less PG ans a little less CPU, and Quad light beams shoot so much faster it looks like they never stop firing.
Off Topic: Oh, I also got 7 non-wrecking shots of 920-960 damage yesterday while defending myself from a raven attacking me that was at 30% shield, 100% armor, and 100% structure. It was a bug, but needless to say I instapopped his raven because of the extremely fast firing ability of my quads combined with the buggy superdamage. If any of the shots had been wrecking I would have had hits of around 2850. I am sending the guy a screenshot of my logs abnd he should get his ship back.
Check my BIO for the damage messages
Back on topic: I will stick to my setup for now. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.13 17:20:00 -
[18]
/bump for comments. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.13 17:25:00 -
[19]
Drop the 400mm and adaptive nano, replace them with two active 55% hardeners. Then you have 4 active 55% hardeners and you should assign them only to the resistances your enemy will deal, as you can work out with my spreadsheet (link in my sig). For sanshas, that's EM and thermal. So Two EM hardeners, two thermal.
If I were you, I'd worry less about damage ad more about tank because it's safer but your way might work just as well. I'd usually think of fitting a 1600mm plate on there instead of a heatsink but the grid usage of your nos and guns is prohibitive in that sense. 800mm might do but the 400mm is useless. Much better to have an active hardener.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Kular
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Posted - 2006.04.13 20:07:00 -
[20]
Well I've been playing with Lvl 4's in my Zealot and haven't lost it (lgitimitly) yet** as I have lost almost every battleship on a long enough time scale...
Hanns convinced me awhile back that Vrs Npc's I really really would much rather have a 1600 plate than the extra 50 dps heavy pulse II's can give me. Personally I have always been and advocate of fit a damn good tank first, then w/e else after that.
Heres what I currently run and the buffer saves me quite alot.
4x focused medium pulse II, Med Nos II 10mn AB II, 90% webber, 18% cap recharger( t2 still too expensive) med repair II, Energized therm II, Nano II, pdu II, 2x Heat sink II, 1600mm rolled tungston
My resists are not top notch, but they work and I can swap a heat sink out for another resist if I think I'll get hammered enough. The dmg is good, my optimal with microwave is about 28km + falloff into mid 30's
The 1600mm is what really does it, had a pack of like 8 inties on me once... had to just sit and watch my armor get chewed away while I webbed and killed them 1 at a time. No way I would have survived without the 6700 armor.
Now if I could only find a damned affordable slave set! Hanns help www.AegisMilitia.com For God, Empire, and Sarum! |
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Hotice
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Posted - 2006.04.14 01:44:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Hotice on 14/04/2006 01:52:03 You really don't need any kind of plate for lvl 4 missions. As matter of fact, the most you ever going to need would be 3 energized adaptive plate IIs. Usually I run 1 t2 medium armor repairer, 2 hardeners and 3 heatsinks along with 1 cap power relay. Never had to warp out from a mission or even come close to losing the ship.
You don't need to over tank with plate. Use t2 heavy beams instead of t2 heavy pulse. Long range will cut down the amount of damage you take by good 40% if not more. Consider t2 heavy beams got rof of 2.68 sec, damage modifer 7.92x. t2 heavy pulse got rof of 2.35 sec, damage modifier 7.31. Heavy beam got 63km range with infrared crystal, heavy pulse got 30km range with infrared crystal. That is twice as far than heavy pulse. With that extra 30km range, you can kill at least 3 ceptors or upto to 4 cruisers. You gain massive amount of safty from using heavy beams and kill a lot faster than pulse at the end. Heavy beam setup is better than heavy pulse setup no question about it. The difference is huge and I have tested this extensively in past 8 months of doing missions in zealot.
Pulse+plating is just plain counter productive. You lost speed, damage just to gain that extra few armor hitpoints. Heavy beams don't have any tracking issue with a 90% webber. I can kill ceptors as close as 13km no problem with zealot. Just hit AB once or twice while match the ceptor fly direction and that ceptor will pop. In general, you want to have as much range as you can in lvl 4 missions unless npc all mwd to close range. Even that you should always use long range weapon to give yourself some extra shots in before the npc group get close.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.14 19:28:00 -
[22]
Hotice, what type of NPCs do you fight? with guristas can see your tactic working great so I am guessing you fight guristas. Against Sansha you need to be fast(for transversal) and hit things while going fast which beams can't do. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.14 22:11:00 -
[23]
I liked Nyphur's idea better than putting on the large plate for now, but I will test them both and see what I am more comfortable with. Anyway, this is the setup I came up with, being what Nyphur said.
4x Heavy Pulse Laser II 1x Medium Diminishing Nosferatu
1x 10mn AB 1x 90% web 1x Eutectic Cap Recharger
1x Medium Armor Repairer II 2x Centum A-Type Energ. Reflective Membrane(55.625% w/skills) 2x Centum A-Type Energ. Thermic Membrane(55.635% w/skills) 1x Heat Sink II 1x Capacitor Power Relay
90.83% EM resist and 85.1% Thermal Resist, compared to the 86em/78therm I had with my first setup.
So all I want to know if this setup can do level 4s better than the first two that I posted. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.15 01:47:00 -
[24]
/bump for more comments --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.15 02:44:00 -
[25]
I think there comes a stage when you have to undock and see if it works
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Hotice
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Posted - 2006.04.15 04:41:00 -
[26]
Well, I do missions for Caldri/Amarr/Minmatar. So that is what I use zealot for and I never had problem with tracking. Below 10km range I web the ceptors, or I simply kill them at 16km+ range with heavy beams. From max 63km range, I usually kill at least 4 ceptors before they got below 16km. For cruisers, there is no need to web, from 1km-63km they just die really fast. Consider I pop those spider drones easily after I web them, I don't see how people could have problem hitting stuff with heavy beams.
Those sasha daemons are easier to hitthan angel wingmen so I guess it take abit more practice on tactics when dealing with them intead think it is tracking problem. Consider I can hit those ceptors just fine with 720mm artillery IIs on my vagabond as close as 24km and below 10km once webbed. Pulse laser range is just too short, you will find yourself having problem when you run into the mission bug that aggros the whole spawn pretty often.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.16 03:49:00 -
[27]
Ok Hotice, what do you think of this setup. I am guessing I could lose a hardener or CPR for another Heat Sink but until I feel confortable with level 4s I will stick to a safer approach.
4x Heavy Beam Laser II
1x 10mn Afterburner II 1x Fleeting webber(90%) 1x T2 Cap Recharger
1x Medium Armor Repairer II 1x Centum Energized Reflective Membrane 2x Centum Energized Thermic Membrane 1x Heat Sink II 2x Capacitor Power Relay
Quickfitt says everything will run, and great resists. I am counting on that 40% reduction in damage for beams over pulses --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.16 15:33:00 -
[28]
This is the last bump I promise --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Brazero
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Posted - 2006.04.16 23:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Spartan III Hotice, what type of NPCs do you fight? with guristas can see your tactic working great so I am guessing you fight guristas. Against Sansha you need to be fast(for transversal) and hit things while going fast which beams can't do.
I might as well post a comment here. I use t2 Heavy Beams and I have no problems with intys or anything else for that matter. And I fight mostly Blood and Sansha. I also get the usual mix of other npc types as well.
And remember, a web is pontlees with beams. Use 2 t2 cap chargers, those heavy beams eat cap. To be able to fight for a longer period you need a recharge of minimum 102, just to make sure that lovely tank is running smooth.
My setup 4 x t2 Heavy Beam 1 x t2 AB, 2 x t2 capcharge 1 x t2 Repper, 2 x t2 heatsink, 1 x cpr, 2 active hardener and 1 t2 resist plate. Either thermal or kinetic. Explo resist is ok.
This gives me 8,4 dmg, 2.64 rof and multi covers averything up to 30km. For long range I use mw with 63km optimal and great hits up to lock range. And i finish most missions with 100% shield. They never hit you when you do 700 m/s |
Vexed's Alt
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Posted - 2006.04.16 23:43:00 -
[30]
Well lvl 4's provide most of my income and I use Zealot exclusively.
Faction gear galore though to make it easier
4 x Heavy Pulse T2 1 x True Sansha Med Nos
1 x 10MN Domination AB 2 x Domination webs (don't knock this till u try it, interceptors web and movement is life in zealot, interceptors die in seconds when double webbed)
1 x Centum Armour Rep 3 x 64% Hardeners 1/2 x True Sansha Heat Sinks 1/2 x True Sansha CPR's
Same result can be achieved with t2 gear but obviously it makes things easier with all that uber loot. Come shoot me!
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