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Boughan Maroon
Ideal Machine Academy
6
   |
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, someone at CCP has mentioned that the Rattlesnake (one of the best looking ships IMHO), is not quite in line with the other Pirate Faction battleships. The Rattlesnake has also suffered from the nerf to the omnidirectionals, thus further diminishing its place on the power curve. Now I would like to hear ideas and suggestions on how to "fix" the Rattler, without having to hit the other pirate faction battleships with the nerf-bat.
Should CCP change some of the drone boni? Should its missiles be buffed / removed / changed?
I am curious what everyone can come up with and am looking forward to a good discussion (maybe even CCP could pick an idea presented here.
o7
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Mr Doctor
Sex Machineguns
Happy Cartel
90
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would imagine a similar bonus to the domi and a loss of missile bonus but I would hope for something a little more out of the box. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
398
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reduce its shield recharge time a little. It needs more tank.  |
Lina Theist
Rosendal Research and Development
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm hoping for more missiles. Missiles are pretty bland at the moment, but it would be fun to have a pirate BS which actually uses missiles and not only neuts/smartbombs |
Voxinian
26
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 16:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Missile boats (besedes the BCs) needs to be buffed period and especially the BS. There are now the new rapid launchers, but with an insane activation time so it still pretty much useless. Missile boats should not have the tag 'PvE boat' as they have now. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
649
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 17:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
mm.. a 50/50 damage split of missiles and drones ..
100mb dbw 300 dronebay
25% missile damage bonus ... instead of velocity bonus
nerf HP and recharge reduced in line with navy
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 17:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Boughan Maroon wrote:So, someone at CCP has mentioned that the Rattlesnake (one of the best looking ships IMHO), is not quite in line with the other Pirate Faction battleships.
They all seem so distinct. I honestly can't tell what is the "line" of the pirate faction battleships. |
Boughan Maroon
Ideal Machine Academy
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
I personally think drones are ok and all, but I would prefer to have a true missile boat. Seeing that torps are very underutilized (at most in the Golem) I think some good boni for torps (speed / flight time / explosion radius / (pick two) would, along with an improved agility and speed |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Disturbed Acquaintance
1214
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:
100mb dbw 300 dronebay
Now why would a Drone based Pirate Battleship have less bandwidth than a Drone based Pirate Cruiser .......
the mind boggles. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
635
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
here is my solution:
1. drop the missile range bonus, it's useless.
2. give the ship an ECM strength bonus as befits a guristas battleship.
3. trade one low for a mid.
4. watch and be amazed as the price doubles due to real demand from pvp and pve players alike.
solved.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
398
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
I dont know about ECM befitting Guristas, but it certainly fits on that scorpion hull.
I dont know about giving it another mid. I was joking about it needing more tank, the thing is already an absolute beast. |
Boughan Maroon
Ideal Machine Academy
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:here is my solution:
1. drop the missile range bonus, it's useless.
2. give the ship an ECM strength bonus as befits a guristas battleship.
3. trade one low for a mid.
4. watch and be amazed as the price doubles due to real demand from pvp and pve players alike.
solved.
I do like the ECM idea. I mean the Baal has neuts, why not one with ECM? Good idea!
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1102
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
If they made guristas missile ships because we have no current pirate missile ships, then it would make us equally devoid of pirate drone ships.
i'd have thought sansha were the unloved bastards of the pirate world.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Voxinian
27
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Boughan Maroon wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:here is my solution:
1. drop the missile range bonus, it's useless.
2. give the ship an ECM strength bonus as befits a guristas battleship.
3. trade one low for a mid.
4. watch and be amazed as the price doubles due to real demand from pvp and pve players alike.
solved. I do like the ECM idea. I mean the Baal has neuts, why not one with ECM? Good idea!
The normal Scorpion and the Widow is already for ECM, both needs to be buffed. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
637
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Voxinian wrote:Boughan Maroon wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:here is my solution:
1. drop the missile range bonus, it's useless.
2. give the ship an ECM strength bonus as befits a guristas battleship.
3. trade one low for a mid.
4. watch and be amazed as the price doubles due to real demand from pvp and pve players alike.
solved. I do like the ECM idea. I mean the Baal has neuts, why not one with ECM? Good idea! The normal Scorpion and the Widow is already for ECM, both needs to be buffed.
Scorpion has ECM range bonus, as befits caldari long range missile doctrine.
Guristas PVE battleships always field ECM, so there's storyline support for it.
The combination of monstrously powerful ECM plus 1000dps of drones + a bit of missiles and a couple of heavy neuts would make for an extremely powerful skirmishing battleship.
You'd need the extra mid so that it could keep its tank while fielding an ECM.
There is of course a risk that people would field it with 8 ECM and no tank. But this ship would be selling for close to 1Bn, so what's the problem? People field bhaals with 7 neuts and no dps. No-one bats an eyelid.
There is also a risk that people would simply fit it with triple XLASB and no ECM to become an unkillable skirmsher, but it would be vulnerable to drone depletion in an extended skirmish so that's a niche role (i.e. bait) and unlikely to be a winning strategy in the real world.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1859
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
The problem with the rattlesnake is its unfocused bonuses. The slot layout and other stats are brilliant. The rattlesnake has a few strong flavors.
- Missile/Drone Hybrid. Unique and Awesome.
- Long Range. Has a missilve velocity bonus, uses sentry drones, good lock range.
- Tanky. Has a resist bonus, considered one of the most powerful bonuses a ship can give. Also has ginormous base HP values and 13 total mid/low slots.
My proposals are centered around preserving the strongest flavor of the ship through shuffling the bonuses, especially its role bonus which is total weaksauce compared to every other pirate BS. it basically lets you shoot really far with precision cruise, or... yeah. thats pretty much it. or t2 heavy missiles from RHMLs.
Snipey version, replace powerful resist bonus with powerful drone bonus
Role Bonus: 50% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints
Gal BS: 7.5% bonus to range and tracking of drones
Caldari BS: 7.5% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Brawly version
Role Bonus: 50% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints
Gal BS: 4% bonus to shield resistance
Caldari BS: 7.5% bonus to missile explosion velocity.
Basically I think the drone bonus should be moved to the range bonus to bring it in line with other pirate BS role bonuses. The drone damage bonus is core. Giving it a missile application bonus beefs up the lackluster missiles, and makes them more worth fitting, and contributes to the dps. In its current state the rattlesnake needs to worry about both missile application and drone range, and absent bonuses for either its a very tall order to make both of them effective. Adding a RoF or damage bonus in place of the missile application bonus is also possible. Keeping it to 4 launchers is fine. The rattlesnake will be tanky enough due to base values and slot layout even if it loses the resist bonus.
EDIT: ECM idea is stupid.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1102
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Guristas PVE battleships always field ECM, so there's storyline support for it.
by that thinking angels should have TP's and serpentis have damps.
batelle, u say it has bad unfocused bonuses, and then propose almost identical split bonuses...
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2207
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:If they made guristas missile ships because we have no current pirate missile ships, then it would make us equally devoid of pirate drone ships.
i'd have thought sansha were the unloved bastards of the pirate world.
My friend, I believe you have forgotten about the Astero, Stratios, and Nestor(lol).
Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1102
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:If they made guristas missile ships because we have no current pirate missile ships, then it would make us equally devoid of pirate drone ships.
i'd have thought sansha were the unloved bastards of the pirate world. My friend, I believe you have forgotten about the Astero, Stratios, and Nestor(lol).
gyah
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1859
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:
by that thinking angels should have TP's and serpentis have damps.
batelle, u say it has bad unfocused bonuses, and then propose almost identical split bonuses...
well lets just say that a shield dominix with a resistance bonus and a 6/7/6 slot layout would be OP as ****, so im not going to bother proposing it.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1102
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 21:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
thats kinda my standing. rattler is pretty good at what it does.
are they supposed to be trying to make it a PvP ship or something?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 22:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adding a role bonus for 100% missile dmg (8 effective launchers, like golem), along with Dominix drone bonuses and top it off with 4% resist bonus and you have a decent ship. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
643
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Adding a role bonus for 100% missile dmg (8 effective launchers, like golem), along with Dominix drone bonuses and top it off with 4% resist bonus and you have a decent ship.
So basically a missile version of a navy Dominix?
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:Adding a role bonus for 100% missile dmg (8 effective launchers, like golem), along with Dominix drone bonuses and top it off with 4% resist bonus and you have a decent ship. So basically a missile version of a navy Dominix?
More like a Missile/shield Dominix, navy Domi have worse drone bonuses |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
399
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
I am not at my computer to be able to check, but ai am pretty sure the N.Domi and Rattler have the same drone bonus.
N.Domi also gets a hybrid damage bonus and Rattler gets tank resist plus a flavor missile range bonus. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 00:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:I am not at my computer to be able to check, but ai am pretty sure the N.Domi and Rattler have the same drone bonus.
N.Domi also gets a hybrid damage bonus and Rattler gets tank resist plus a flavor missile range bonus.
Yes bouth N.Domi and Rattlesnake currenty only have 10% dmg bonus to drones. RS have 4% shield resists and 50% range bonus on missiles (4 missile hardpoints), where the N.Domi have 6 turrets with 5%/lvl dmg bonus.
N.Domi is nothe power level to look at for balancing a pirate ship tho, that would be Vindi/Mach/Bhaal/NM
Vindicator have 8 turrets with 37.5% dmg role bonus (11 effective turrets), tracking bonus, a STRONG web bonus and 125mb drone for drones
Mach have 7 turrets with 5%/lvl dmg and 25% RoF role bonus (11.67 effective turrets), falloff bonus and 100mb for drones (+good agility/speed)
Bhaal have 4 turrets with 100% dmg role bonus (8 effective turrets), web range bonus and neuting amount bonus.
NM have 4 turrets with 100%dmg role bonus and 5%lvl dmg (10 effective turrents), tracking bonus and 75mb for drones
Current RS have 4 range bonused missiles, 125MB drones with 5%/lvl dmg and 4%resist bonus
With this the Vindi stands out for raw dmg, the Mach for agility/speed and Bhaal for its neuting.
Notice how all these ships have 8+ effective weapons, a bonus to dmg application and decent drones.
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
399
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 00:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ok.. it's hard to say what the drones are worth in terms of turrets... but it's got to be at least 5, and really probably closer to 8.
Drones have their downsides, probably most importantly here in terms of being easily killable.
I can see where the Rattlesnake can use a bit of a bump, and that bump probably needs to be in the missile area, perhaps an explosion bonus, or a better range bonus so that torps can have a useful range. As it stands, you don't need the bonus on cruise missiles, and torps have such a short range that even a 50% bonus does not do much good on a ship that is also expected to put out sentries. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 10:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Ok.. it's hard to say what the drones are worth in terms of turrets... but it's got to be at least 5, and really probably closer to 8.
Drones have their downsides, probably most importantly here in terms of being easily killable.
I can see where the Rattlesnake can use a bit of a bump, and that bump probably needs to be in the missile area, perhaps an explosion bonus, or a better range bonus so that torps can have a useful range. As it stands, you don't need the bonus on cruise missiles, and torps have such a short range that even a 50% bonus does not do much good on a ship that is also expected to put out sentries.
Lets then assume a sentry/heavy = 1 turret (blasters do more, artillery does less)
RS have 7.5 effective sentry + 4 effective turrets = 11.5
Vindi have 5 effective sentry + 11 effective turrets = 16
Mach have 4 effective sentry + 11.67 effective turrets = 15.67
Bhall have 3 effective sentry + 8 effective turrets = 11
NM have 3 effective sentry + 10 effective turrets = 13
This is a bit more balanced, but all of the other ships here have bonus to dmg application and/or bonus that indirectly help with dmg application |
Boughan Maroon
Ideal Machine Academy
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 10:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Ok.. it's hard to say what the drones are worth in terms of turrets... but it's got to be at least 5, and really probably closer to 8.
Drones have their downsides, probably most importantly here in terms of being easily killable.
I can see where the Rattlesnake can use a bit of a bump, and that bump probably needs to be in the missile area, perhaps an explosion bonus, or a better range bonus so that torps can have a useful range. As it stands, you don't need the bonus on cruise missiles, and torps have such a short range that even a 50% bonus does not do much good on a ship that is also expected to put out sentries. Lets then assume a sentry/heavy = 1 turret (blasters do more, artillery does less) RS have 7.5 effective sentry + 4 effective turrets = 11.5 Vindi have 5 effective sentry + 11 effective turrets = 16 Mach have 4 effective sentry + 11.67 effective turrets = 15.67 Bhall have 3 effective sentry + 8 effective turrets = 11 NM have 3 effective sentry + 10 effective turrets = 13 This is a bit more balanced, but all of the other ships here have bonus to dmg application and/or bonus that indirectly help with dmg application
Thank you for putting these numbers together. They really demonstrate the disparity well. Only thing to add, is that I think most Bhalls are not used for damage application, but for their fantastic neuting power (plus webs help too).
o7
Boughan |
Enya Sparhawk
State Protectorate
Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 10:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
With only 4 launchers there is pretty much no real point in buffing the missles to any real extent...
Special Ability: Get rid of the 50% bonus to velocity of missles and trade it with a 37.5% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo rate of fire.
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 4% shield resistance per level (keep it since it works)
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to drone shield recharge rate and damage per skill level
Give it the marauders' bonus to micro jump drives... and the ability to fit 4 Hybrid guns or 4 missles (or a combination of the two) as well...
If I was a pirate, this is how I would have refitted this hull...
F+¡orghr+í: Gr+í na f+¡rinne
D+¬an g+íire...Tiocfaidh +ír l+í |
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