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Scoo Ulter Instable Anomaly 0	Posted - 2014.02.27 00:30:00 - [31] - Quote Quote: [Apocalypse, Beginner] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Hobgoblin II x5 Imperial Navy Curator x2 Why two EANM instead of one additional mission specific hardener + another heat sink?
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.27 13:37:00 - [32] - Quote 2 EANM with compensation skills give you nearly the same tank as 2 mission specific hardeners and save capacitor. The setup is versus angels(with good skills you don't really need it, even in a recon 1/3 or Angel Blockade), the extra hardener can be switched to kin for the Guristas Assaults or EM for people having issues with the tank. In general you can fly nearly every mission in Amarr space(minus guistas Assault) just with 2 EANMs and add another heat sink. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.27 14:49:00 - [33] - Quote OK, here it goes AE pocket 1-5 in 29 minutes, using the Navy Apoc: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1402/Navy_Apoc_Angel_Extravaganza.mkv I'm a bit out of shape since I didn't run missions in the last 2 months and normally dual box the navy apoc with a 2. hull, so I play it a bit different then. I probably lost the 1-2 minutes I am normally quicker in the 1. and 2. pocket by moving to early and for sloppy frig shooting, forcing me to use light drones. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Gregor Parud 264	Posted - 2014.02.27 14:54:00 - [34] - Quote The Djego wrote: 2 EANM with compensation skills give you nearly the same tank as 2 mission specific hardeners wut?
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.27 15:14:00 - [35] - Quote Example with IN EANMs, compensation skills at 5 and stacking: 28.13 + 28.13 x 0.89 = 53,16% extra resists across the board. 2 specific T2 hardners 55% to 2 resists. Also this costs you another 3 cap every second, what is in general nice to have for other stuff on Amarr hulls. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Dani Skye Pro Synergy 0	Posted - 2014.02.27 16:26:00 - [36] - Quote The Djego wrote: Example with IN EANMs, compensation skills at 5 and stacking: 28.13 + 28.13 x 0.89 = 53,16% extra resists across the board. 2 specific T2 hardners 55% to 2 resists. Also this costs you another 3 cap every second, what is in general nice to have for other stuff on Amarr hulls. Resists don't stack like that. A specific hardener will give 55% of the remaining percentage toward 100% resist. Therefore, if you put a t2 Thermic Hardener on an Navy Apoc you'll get 70.8% thermic resist with the hardener on. EANMs work the same way. Two EANMS will give you 28.13% of your missing resists, then another (28.13% * 0.89 = 25.04%) AFTER the first EANM is applied. Essentially, you're getting double stacking penalties. If you put two Navy EANMs, you'll get 64.7% thermic resist. Let's assume you take 100 damage from a pure thermic source. Mission specific you get hit for 29.2 damage, two EANMS you get hit for 35.3 damage. 35.3/29.2 = you're getting hit for 20% more damage on your hardener type. Whether that's worth the cap savings and whether having extra resists on off damage types is worth it is another story, but need the correct math first.
Damien White Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel 132	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:48:00 - [37] - Quote I have to say, for a newbie that probably does not know about all the damagetypes 2 EANM and a resistance shifting hardener would be "perfect". With low skills go for the old fashioned way with 1 Large repair and 4 Hardeners, 2 for each main damagetype of your enemy. 97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling, "DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Whoaness JWong Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.02.27 19:00:00 - [38] - Quote Damien White wrote: Whoaness JWong wrote: I was thinking Arbitrator, Harbinger, Apoc, Paladin. Maller => Harbinger => Apoc / Abaddon => Navy Apoc / Paladin Wow that's a lot of advice. Thanks buddy!
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.27 19:09:00 - [39] - Quote You also could consider the omen for level 2 missions, if you can afford it the navy omen is a damn nice ship for level 2 and level 3 missions(fast, massive range, good damage and very good signature tank, plus a great training for flying Zealots later on). Dani Skye I will look into it, thx for pointing it out. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Gregor Parud 264	Posted - 2014.02.27 19:21:00 - [40] - Quote The Djego wrote: Example with IN EANMs, compensation skills at 5 and stacking: 28.13 + 28.13 x 0.89 = 53,16% extra resists across the board. 2 specific T2 hardners 55% to 2 resists. Also this costs you another 3 cap every second, what is in general nice to have for other stuff on Amarr hulls. Tbfh if you're that wrong on something as basic as this then uhm, yeah.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.27 19:37:00 - [41] - Quote No need to get rude. Also I omni tank every Amarr pve ship for L4 since years, because I had the best results with it, so it is not that I give bad advice. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Damien White Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel 134	Posted - 2014.02.27 19:51:00 - [42] - Quote The Djego wrote: OK, here it goes AE pocket 1-5 in 29 minutes, using the Navy Apoc: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1402/Navy_Apoc_Angel_Extravaganza.mkv I'm a bit out of shape since I didn't run missions in the last 2 months and normally dual box the navy apoc with a 2. hull, so I play it a bit different then. I probably lost the 1-2 minutes I am normally quicker in the 1. and 2. pocket by moving to early and for sloppy frig shooting, forcing me to use light drones. Hiding the system you are in is kinda pointless, when you see all the gates in your overview. EDIT: And you are only using 4 Hob Gob II and one Tech 1. 97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling, "DO A BARREL ROLL!"
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:05:00 - [43] - Quote I know that with the system, figured it out after I did the first vid, but clicking to align also shows it and I was to lazy to change the mask in gimp again. Yeah I think I had to replace that on light drone after the last one got double webed and insta poped in the 2. room of a Serpentis assault and I had no T2 hobgoblin at hand, didn't really double check it yesterday before moving the hull to the first AE I got. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Damien White Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel 136	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:12:00 - [44] - Quote You ever thougt of switching one EANM for an Resistance shifting Hardener? You wont notice the change against EM/Therm Enemys but he will provide you with better tank against Angels, EOM or Gurista 97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling, "DO A BARREL ROLL!"
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:27:00 - [45] - Quote Well I currently got no L4 down here that I can't omni tank with that navy Apoc, but I guess I could give it a try when I get back to missions again. Normally I have 2 BS on grid for dps, so tanking becomes a fairly trivial thing anyway. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Gregor Parud 264	Posted - 2014.02.28 01:30:00 - [46] - Quote The Djego wrote: No need to get rude. Also I omni tank every Amarr pve ship for L4 since years, because I had the best results with it, so it is not that I give bad advice. My point is that you ARE giving people bad "advice" and quite often hilarious bling fit ideas while you don't actually understand how the game works. If me pointing that out makes me rude then so be it, personally I find it more rude and troubling to give people mistaken info.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.28 06:58:00 - [47] - Quote My point is I actually fly this "hilarious bling" setups, because I actually did build them around practical purpose and I guess they are cost effective for me. I have been told a troll with my setups tons of times, people that don't believe that you can fly a amarr BS with a 200 dps omnitank utilizing dps as your major tank, that you can't fly a laser BS with mwd and that you can't dps down angels with lasers in a very time efficient way to if you want. When I look back 50% of the people that flamed me last year are now in Doomheim or just flame other people today. Also there might be a difference between people that move a few chars 50 Jumps, fly a few L4s to get a AE, free up 50 GB HD space, spend 4 hours editing, rendering and uploading a example of how it works and people that try to flame others on the public eve forums on a Alt. I haven't see a single constructive post from you, but feel free to give better advice than I do. I was told last year that everybody could fly amarr BS better than I do, I still wait on a single prove of that or even a single constructive post of this people till that day. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Gregor Parud 264	Posted - 2014.02.28 08:10:00 - [48] - Quote The Djego wrote: My point is I actually fly this "hilarious bling" setups, because I actually did build them around practical purpose and I guess they are cost effective for me. I have been told a troll with my setups tons of times, people that don't believe that you can fly a amarr BS with a 200 dps omnitank utilizing dps as your major tank, that you can't fly a laser BS with mwd and that you can't dps down angels with lasers in a very time efficient way to if you want. When I look back 50% of the people that flamed me last year are now in Doomheim or just flame other people today. Also there might be a difference between people that move a few chars 50 Jumps, fly a few L4s to get a AE, free up 50 GB HD space, spend 4 hours editing, rendering and uploading a example of how it works and people that try to flame others on the public eve forums on a Alt. I haven't see a single constructive post from you, but feel free to give better advice than I do. I was told last year that everybody could fly amarr BS better than I do, I still wait on a single prove of that or even a single constructive post of this people till that day. - the majority of your fits are terrible gank magnets showcasing zero understanding of risk vs reward in that regard, especially when giving this "advice" to people who may not understand the risk or how to deal with that - just because "it works and I didn't die" doesn't mean it makes sense - your losses are riddles with "wtf" fits - teaching ppl the terribleness of omnitanking in PVE - and, shown in this thread, perhaps not up to speed on game mechanics as you think you are In short; you're not as capable as you think you are and while your effort is commendable you're going overboard on many of the things you state. This is not me being "rude" or "flaming", this is me stating simple facts. Less blingy nonsense, more realistic approaches and being able to adjust one's "advice" towards the person asking for it (like here in this thread, it's a newbie and you're giving him Core B-type fits).
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.28 10:17:00 - [49] - Quote Well I guess that's just your opinion man. Now take you straw man arguments and flame and have a nice day on my ignore list. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 328	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:11:00 - [50] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: The Djego wrote: My point is I actually fly this "hilarious bling" setups, because I actually did build them around practical purpose and I guess they are cost effective for me. I have been told a troll with my setups tons of times, people that don't believe that you can fly a amarr BS with a 200 dps omnitank utilizing dps as your major tank, that you can't fly a laser BS with mwd and that you can't dps down angels with lasers in a very time efficient way to if you want. When I look back 50% of the people that flamed me last year are now in Doomheim or just flame other people today. Also there might be a difference between people that move a few chars 50 Jumps, fly a few L4s to get a AE, free up 50 GB HD space, spend 4 hours editing, rendering and uploading a example of how it works and people that try to flame others on the public eve forums on a Alt. I haven't see a single constructive post from you, but feel free to give better advice than I do. I was told last year that everybody could fly amarr BS better than I do, I still wait on a single prove of that or even a single constructive post of this people till that day. - the majority of your fits are terrible gank magnets showcasing zero understanding of risk vs reward in that regard, especially when giving this "advice" to people who may not understand the risk or how to deal with that - just because "it works and I didn't die" doesn't mean it makes sense - your losses are riddles with "wtf" fits - teaching ppl the terribleness of omnitanking in PVE - and, shown in this thread, perhaps not up to speed on game mechanics as you think you are In short; you're not as capable as you think you are and while your effort is commendable you're going overboard on many of the things you state. This is not me being "rude" or "flaming", this is me stating simple facts. Less blingy nonsense, more realistic approaches and being able to adjust one's "advice" towards the person asking for it (like here in this thread, it's a newbie and you're giving him Core B-type fits while telling him to omnitank). Actually that's pretty fair. Brisk, granted but fair. I wouldn't omni tank outside of a paladin , I'd have serious resevations about mentioning blingy bs fits to a new player as he wouldn't have the experience to avoid getting beaten up for his shiny new toys. That said, the advice is not without merit. Just has little with regards the op. If in doubt...do...excessively.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 241	Posted - 2014.02.28 14:13:00 - [51] - Quote Well it is not like I didn't provide a T2 version confusingly labelled as "beginner" for newer players, but yeah, lets cook up a straw mans argument about "cost effective fitted" navy apocs for newer players... The Foxcat fitting is what I personally use to do L4s(I prefer it over the Pala and NM, because both a bricks), it did cost 1B(ship + full fitting), is not designed for newer players and I guess the general rule of "don't fly what you can't effort" applies as well. I just added it as suggestion what would be a good alternative at the end of the road and the vids showcase what you can do with that kind of ships. As stated before I omni tank every L4 for practical reasons(I only dock up ever 2-3 missions, I don't have issues with my tank) and again people can change the tank if they have issues and go with less expensive mods as well, it is not like I would force anybody that reads the thread to fly my personal setup. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Dalloway Jones Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 185	Posted - 2014.02.28 14:35:00 - [52] - Quote To be fair in post #26 The Djego did give examples both for a player new to a BS and then one for someone with higher skills/ISK. The starter one is something similar to what I have been flying at about 8.5 million sp and it works out well for me and is certainly doable. Anyway I won't get in the way of all the epeen waving or typical posts of people telling each other how horrible they are. I mostly fly Amarr because I think the ships look cool.
Gregor Parud 264	Posted - 2014.02.28 15:25:00 - [53] - Quote The Djego wrote: Well it is not like I didn't provide a T2 version confusingly labelled as "beginner" for newer players, but yeah, lets cook up a straw mans argument about "cost effective fitted" navy apocs for newer players... And then you tell him to fit two EANM (newbies might/will pick up on that **) partly because of ignorance on how resists actually work and partly because apparently you never gave the whole hardener cap vs repping cap any thought. Anything cruiser+ is better off fitting active hardeners because an increase in cap use is easily offset by needing to rep less. It makes ZERO SENSE to fit 2 EANM on a T1 mission BS if you're fighting a 2 damage type faction. Quote:** it is not like I would force anybody that reads the thread to fly my personal setup. That's my point, the OP doesn't CARE about your specific situation, experience, SP, knowledge and wallet. He cares about his own situation and your answers aren't helping him any.
Reiko Ikari Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.03.04 02:48:00 - [54] - Quote Regarding the Amarr ships "upgrade" paths, is it ok to move onto L3's with your Maller or should you wait till you have a Harbinger? (which based on the price of a Harbinger vs the rewards from L2's looks like it would take a while)
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2014.03.04 07:08:00 - [55] - Quote Some L3 in Maller will be tough but you can surely do some. Watch out for those webbing frigs and towers.
Gregor Parud 272	Posted - 2014.03.04 08:05:00 - [56] - Quote Reiko Ikari wrote: Regarding the Amarr ships "upgrade" paths, is it ok to move onto L3's with your Maller or should you wait till you have a Harbinger? (which based on the price of a Harbinger vs the rewards from L2's looks like it would take a while) Some lvl 3 are easy, some are difficult. If you know what you're doing you can make it work but honestly it's just not ideal. And in this case the "if you have to ask you probably won't know what you're doing" applies (I don't mean that in a negative way) and you probably shouldn't risk it.
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 594	Posted - 2014.03.04 08:39:00 - [57] - Quote Reiko Ikari wrote: Regarding the Amarr ships "upgrade" paths, is it ok to move onto L3's with your Maller or should you wait till you have a Harbinger? (which based on the price of a Harbinger vs the rewards from L2's looks like it would take a while) Bigger doesn't always equal better, some L3 missions can be done in a frigate or even a shuttle, while others require a substantial tank and dps. Personally, I've been running L3 missions in an Omen before and it's not that big a deal, but I know most missions inside out, down to the exact trigger and the types of ships in each wave. For somebody new, an unknown mission might well spell doom. Can you do them in a Maller? Yes. Should you? At your own risk. I'd do it, but then I'd also fly a Vindicator head-first into a hornet's nest.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 242	Posted - 2014.03.05 08:49:00 - [58] - Quote You can fly L3s in a Maller or Omen, but it will be a bit harder and relative slow(lack of dps mostly). However it shouldn't be a big issue, since the tanks are fairly equal(less armor, but less damage intake by higher speed and lower sig). One thing to avoid would be the big missions like blockade, where shooting the triggers in the wrong order, plus the lack of DPS can create a scenario where the damage intake is fairly huge, while a cruiser simply got a lot of issues reducing incoming dps by the lower dps you can dish out. I flown L3 angel and sansha blockade tons of times in a navy omen without breaking a sweat, but it can become very hard with low skills, a cruiser and more than a single wave on grid(seen it tons of time in corp or helping other players). Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2014.03.05 09:00:00 - [59] - Quote I fly a Paladin for l4 missions in Amarr space, decent skills and fit. My advice is fly a race that can chose it's damage type, if later you want pewpewlazor fine but pick something versatile first. Missions against Gurristas and Angel are a serious pain in the ass.
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 594	Posted - 2014.03.05 10:05:00 - [60] - Quote The Djego wrote: I flown L3 angel and sansha blockade tons of times in a navy omen without breaking a sweat, but it can become very hard with low skills, a cruiser and more than a single wave on grid(seen it tons of time in corp or helping other players). Two problems with this: 1. Navy Omen is essentially a mini-T3 2. The hull costs the same or slightly more than the Harbinger. Since money isn't an issue, Harbi is going to perform better most of the time.

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