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HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:32:00 - [1] Please can i go faster than amarr? Seriously, it makes no sense going slower than them. Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:34:00 - [2] WHy do you need to go fast when your enemy can't fire back? (yes, this IS sarcasm) "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Jinx Barker	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:34:00 - [3] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 15/04/2006 14:44:59 Thank You Hippo, I promise I will not tickle you for at least couple of hours. I agree we are the heaviest ships in EVE, for whatever silly reason! I dont understand it. I am gonna go scour the numbers will add them in. Here are the numbers: Megathron Agility factor: 0.155x Mass 102,500,000 kg Dominix Agility factor: 0.155x Mass 105,000,000 kg Tempest Agility Factor: 0.155x Mass 102,500,000 Typhoon Agility factor: 0.155x Mass 100,000,000 kg Apocalypse Agility Factor: 0.155x Mass 107,500,000 kg Armageddon: Agility factor: 0.155x Mass 110,000,000 kg Raven Agility Factor: 0.155x Mass 110,000,000 kg Scorpion Agility factor: 0.155x Mass 115,000,000 kg
Kunming	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:38:00 - [4] LMAO, if anything caldari needs a nerf IMO, you dont need to worry about optimal, why worry about speed... you just want your race to be nber like 1000s of other players Website Kaos Empire Killboard
Great Artista	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:40:00 - [5] I actually played 1 month Caldari, then trainned other races (= amarr)... Never looked back. Houston, we have a new minmatar. -------------
Sovy Kurosei	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:47:00 - [6] Edited by: Sovy Kurosei on 15/04/2006 14:48:26 I don't know why people keep comparing the Caldari to the Amarr like this. The ships usually have the same base speed with the Amarr having slightly less mass. Better off comparing the speed and agility of Gallente ships compared to their size, like the Megathron which I think is the biggest battleship of them all. But then again the Machriel has a base speed of 196 m/s. Pretty fast for a battleship. --- Punishers 4TW!
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:51:00 - [7] (a) We have the lowest max velocity (b) We have the highest mass (c) We have the least lowslots for nanofibers/overdrives Yeah, somebody coughTomBcough doesn't want us going anywhere fast. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Sovy Kurosei the Megathron which I think is the biggest battleship of them all. The Apocalypse is HUGE. It's way bigger than anything else, except maybe the Machariel, but that doesn't count because it's some wierd ancient Jovian design or somesuch nonsense. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Kaylon Syi	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari (a) We have the lowest max velocity (b) We have the highest mass (c) We have the least lowslots for nanofibers/overdrives Yeah, somebody coughTomBcough doesn't want us going anywhere fast. Why bother? Missiles don't miss, rails use range, and you have the the crow. What more do you want? If I was you... I'd run.
Jinx Barker	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Kunming LMAO, if anything caldari needs a nerf IMO, you dont need to worry about optimal, why worry about speed... you just want your race to be nber like 1000s of other players Actually I do not argue for Caldari to be "UBER" or anything. I just think that after we have been [i]narfed[/] so many times the Caldari pilots desrve an explanation as to the reasons behind this obvious imballance. If a Dev comes in here and states in clear terms why they believe that Cladari ships ought to be the slowest and least agile in game, with all the drawbacks of being a missile boat, I would accept it. In all honesty Caldari are not "kill-all" race. Perhaps pre-missile nerf any silly noob could jump into a raven and go on his L4 spree. Now it takes time, just like with any other race to train the proper and needed skills, etc. All I am asking is for people not to flame and acutally explain to me why Caldari are the least agile ships in game? To All of the people who fly Apocs and Geddons: I would settle for Ballance between Apoc and Raven and Geddon and Scorpion. Adjust the mass to be equal between those ships, so they can handle in the same fashion. That way there is no nerf to Amarr ships and ballance is restored.
Manfred Doomhammer	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:56:00 - [11] to boot it, amarr ships rely on ARMOR, wich actually means lot of stuff sticking to your hull, upping your ships mass... dont get me wrong.. i mostly fly amarr ships, still its a tad idiotic that caldari would be the slowest and most cumbersome ships (not to mention the fact we got the lowest number of lowslots, further limiting the available top speed) ---- Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
Sovy Kurosei	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:58:00 - [12] Do'h! Yeah, just took a look at that ship comparison picture somebody did up. Although the Megathron was twice as wide as the Apocalypse if I recall correctly. --- Punishers 4TW!
JamesTalon	Posted - 2006.04.15 14:58:00 - [13] I find it hilarious that the Scorpion is heavier than the Raven though...which are the heaviest battleships listed lol
Morgana Janan	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:02:00 - [14] My impression was Caldari ships are less agile because of the tactics they're made to employ. They're not knife-fighters, they're stand-off systems. The primary weapons of Caldari are missiles and rails, both of which are best at medium and long range. Agility isn't the most critical of elements to the design then, at least not from an engineer's point of view. I mean, if you're a good 30 to 50 kilometers off, odds are I'm not making many tight turns. Plus, look at their main opponents: Gallente. The Gallente ships employ the opposite tactics, close in fighting with blasters and drones. It fits in my mind. Beyond that? I blame the heavy shielding. Probably draws a lot of power away from the engines. ______________________________________________ When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Sovy Kurosei Do'h! Yeah, just took a look at that ship comparison picture somebody did up. Although the Megathron was twice as wide as the Apocalypse if I recall correctly. thats because of an old planetside tradition the Gallente are used to living in Double Wides............
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:12:00 - [16] Originally by: HippoKing Please can i go faster than amarr? Seriously, it makes no sense going slower than them. Humm diet maybe? really Hippo. But your right, Caldari ships are suppose to be top of the line tech wise. So why do the Amarr get faster ships? Oh so they can run from a fight maybe? (sorry just had to get into a Hippoking thread)
Sovy Kurosei	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker Originally by: Sovy Kurosei Do'h! Yeah, just took a look at that ship comparison picture somebody did up. Although the Megathron was twice as wide as the Apocalypse if I recall correctly. thats because of an old planetside tradition the Gallente are used to living in Double Wides............ They live in trailer parks?! Although, back on the topic of mass. I don't know why people keep saying "But Amarr have more armor on their ship therefore they MUST be slower!11!!" when you look at history and see that armor has not only been getting stronger but lighter. Compare the rolled homogenous steel from WWII tanks to the Chobbam armor on the M1A2 tank of today. Even in game you have different grades of armor plating, from rolled tungsten to nanofiber to rolled steel which have varying weights and strengths. So yeah, that is what Amarr ships can be lighter than Caldari ships, because Caldari are skimping out for cheaper armor in order to put in more advanced computers and shield generators. --- Punishers 4TW!
Alistaire Mirabel	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:21:00 - [18] Edited by: Alistaire Mirabel on 15/04/2006 15:24:13 Originally by: Morgana Janan My impression was Caldari ships are less agile because of the tactics they're made to employ. They're not knife-fighters, they're stand-off systems. The primary weapons of Caldari are missiles and rails, both of which are best at medium and long range. Agility isn't the most critical of elements to the design then, at least not from an engineer's point of view. I mean, if you're a good 30 to 50 kilometers off, odds are I'm not making many tight turns. Plus, look at their main opponents: Gallente. The Gallente ships employ the opposite tactics, close in fighting with blasters and drones. It fits in my mind. Beyond that? I blame the heavy shielding. Probably draws a lot of power away from the engines. I understand that. But why are we at least not equal to Amarr? They are another race in EVE who are super elite and with right skills are downright scarry. And scorpion is the heaviest ship in game? This is just plain strange. But tactics have changed with missile nerf, now for caldari it is important to be able to align a little faster, since any frigate can lock raven down failry fast. Caldari are good against other Battleships, just like any other race when properly equiped, but suck when they have to face few frigates, 10hp damage anyone? Manuverability of caldari ships now is more important than it was before. We should be as agile as Amarr at least. Everyone screams to nerf Caldari, we have more drawbacks than allot of others it would appear. I think there is imballance here and many just dont want to aknowledge it. (sigh) Oh well, Hippo and Jinx, good luck getting flamed, but I agree with you guys. Originally by: Sovy Kurosei So yeah, that is what Amarr ships can be lighter than Caldari ships, because Caldari are skimping out for cheaper armor in order to put in more advanced computers and shield generators. my circuit boards must really weigh allot more than a steel plate.
Kunming	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:29:00 - [19] Originally by: JamesTalon I find it hilarious that the Scorpion is heavier than the Raven though...which are the heaviest battleships listed lol Geddon is heavier than apoc, whats your point? Website Kaos Empire Killboard
Sovy Kurosei	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Alistaire Mirabel But tactics have changed with missile nerf, now for caldari it is important to be able to align a little faster, since any frigate can lock raven down failry fast. Caldari are good against other Battleships, just like any other race when properly equiped, but suck when they have to face few frigates, 10hp damage anyone? This is a problem shared with all racial battleships to be honest. If a turret battleship isn't kitted out to take out frigates then those tachyon IIs are going to be missing that pesky little cruiser all the time. Originally by: Alistaire Mirabel my circuit boards must really weigh allot more than a steel plate. But my rolled tungsten weighs a lot less than your steel plate. --- Punishers 4TW!
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:35:00 - [21] Originally by: HippoKing Please can i go faster than amarr? Seriously, it makes no sense going slower than them. ehm ? lol why ? wierchas 4tw
Morgana Janan	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:37:00 - [22] Well someone has to be the least agile. Why not Caldari? It's them or Amarr, and Amarr are relatively more likely to be fighting at closer ranges than Caldari. Also, I blame the uglyness. The sheer hidiousness of the Raven and it's little brothers is such that space is pushing back. nods ______________________________________________ When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
Jinx Barker	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Morgana Janan Well someone has to be the least agile. Why not Caldari? It's them or Amarr, and Amarr are relatively more likely to be fighting at closer ranges than Caldari. Also, I blame the uglyness. The sheer hidiousness of the Raven and it's little brothers is such that space is pushing back. nods Dont get me started on the "esthetics" of Caldari ships, its as if we fell of the ugly tree and hit every LEGO on the way down. I just want to be as agile as Amarr are, at least. Hurts my feelings, damn it. I agree with above that tactics have changed post missile *narf and there just needs to be a review of Mass/Agility bonuses for many ships. A while ago I proposed a skill that would slightly** increas agility for all "heavy ships" but I got flamed to hell and back. *[Ask Jenny]
Slaveabuser	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:47:00 - [24] Originally by: HippoKing Please can i go faster than amarr? Seriously, it makes no sense going slower than them. Because you sux n00b. We invented jump technology before you hence we are more uber than you n00bz. We still value you in the fight against filthy Minatars and the liberal Gallante federation though. Killing the Minmatars since 22480 AD
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.15 16:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Kaylon Syi Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari (a) We have the lowest max velocity (b) We have the highest mass (c) We have the least lowslots for nanofibers/overdrives Yeah, somebody coughTomBcough doesn't want us going anywhere fast. Why bother? Missiles don't miss, rails use range, and you have the the crow. What more do you want? Have fun fighting a ranged fight against an anart or tachy platform and watching it warp in and out to avoid your missiles completely. Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.15 16:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: JamesTalon I find it hilarious that the Scorpion is heavier than the Raven though...which are the heaviest battleships listed lol Geddon is heavier than apoc, whats your point? His point is it makes no damn sense. Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
natashii	Posted - 2006.04.15 16:15:00 - [27] hilariously true. <img src="http://static.flickr.com/51/128781980_925a423fc5.jpg?v=0">
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.04.15 16:16:00 - [28] I Say boost the caldari they are the slowest ,less DPS ,less Tank ships in EVE . Damm were is tomb and tux when we need them?
The Wizz117	Posted - 2006.04.15 16:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Pesadel0 I Say boost the caldari they are the slowest ,less DPS ,less Tank ships in EVE . Damm were is tomb and tux when we need them? theyr creating ships like titans and helping bob out pwn eve
Montague Zooma	Posted - 2006.04.15 16:35:00 - [30] A megathron blew up my 'geddon just fine the other day...I see no problem lol. ____________________________________________________________________ Open skies policies are signs of strength and courage, not weakness.

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