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Evil Oreo
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Posted - 2006.04.17 01:45:00 -
[1]
First of all, I would like to CONGRADULATE CCP for making a beautiful game with the most intricate political system ever.
Time and time again I have read posts (and I'm a newer player, mind you, so if this has been stated before I apologize ahead of time) that focus on the fact that Eve (especially 0.0 eve) is controlled by large player alliances, and super-rich tycoons. And IMO, this is how it should be.
Why does it seem that 50% of the new player in Eve expects to carve a nitch in Eve that will last forever? Why is it that people fight corperate control in the game? Friends, this is nothing but a product of the game mechanics mimicing(sp) our real life world. Rome wasn't built in a day per say, and neither will your new-B corp. The fact of the matter is, if you were to place (in real life) the number of entreprenuers against the number of those that go on to build a Fortune 500 company, the percentage would be in the decimals. It is just not realistic to walk into a society that has already been claimed and expect to "oust the King" so to speak.
A real way to approach this would be as the game has designed it, and how anyone sensible person who wants to get anywhere far in life should approach their career. Join a corperation (a good one) and climb the corperate ladder. And for all of you who say that its impossible because all CEOs are dictators, have you had a look at the way you may be going about joining corps? Cmon its dog-eat-dog, kiss some a$$, throw around some cash, tell a few lies, live a little.....but dont whine and complain when you joined a McDonald's like corp that you expected to take you to the top and you got stuck at the register, and so now you have a vendetta against all corps/alliances except the one that you or your most trusted and holy best friend created. And sorry if I've stepped on some toes of peoples playing style, as what I'm presenting is time consuming and all engrossing, but then again...this is an MMO isn't it?
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Double TaP
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Posted - 2006.04.17 01:48:00 -
[2]
Preach it sistah!!!
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Rorix Whitecloud
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Posted - 2006.04.17 02:01:00 -
[3]
good post (no sarcasm)... but sorry... what was the point of it again? ^^;; dont mean to flame if i sound like it, but i'm wondering why that outburst... sound like someone ****ed you off or soemthing...
~I don't remember. That's the second thing they teach you. |
Evil Oreo
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Posted - 2006.04.17 02:31:00 -
[4]
This
and this
among many others in the archives as well as current...
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.04.17 03:55:00 -
[5]
Amen, every once in a while it just needs to be said.
>> RECRUITING << |
Virvana Sharpur
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Posted - 2006.04.17 06:01:00 -
[6]
No, actually it doesn't. That doesn't stop people from saying it anyway, and all too often at that.
____________
"Give me one frigate pilot with faith, over an armada of a thousand battleships."
--Virvana mons Sharpur,
The Fleet Prayer |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.17 06:17:00 -
[7]
Just because you oldtimers might have read lots of these posts, not all of us have.
Good post. Eve rocks. 
---
"2006.04.15 05:48:19 notify Ditrigonal Thermal Barrier Crystallization I is already modifyActiveShieldResonanceAndNullifyPassiveResonance." |
Koba Kyogen
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Posted - 2006.04.17 06:24:00 -
[8]
This "elitist" vs "newbie" thing is tired. And yes, that is what it is.
I'm logging back in, where I have fun. Not on these forums with all the negativity.
K.K.
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Kenya
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Posted - 2006.04.17 07:17:00 -
[9]
I read your post every last word and have only one question, why does EVE hate carebears? |
Rumbles
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Posted - 2006.04.17 07:36:00 -
[10]
mmmmmmmmmmm
Carebear my definition of a carebear is a person who has the COURAGE to play an online game as he/she wants to play so giving them the satisfaction of getting enjoyment out of something they actually pay RL money for.
A pure trader/hauler ooops sorry I'm a Carebear.
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Danese
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Posted - 2006.04.17 08:12:00 -
[11]
Eve is the ultimate carebear game.
You dont have to kill endless rabbits to level. In fact, you only have to kill 2 drones (i think it was) in the noob story line mission.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.17 08:25:00 -
[12]
I stopped getting your point at the 'intricate policical system'.
Which intricate political system?
Do you mean the most broken faction standing system where half thought through changes broke a partially broken system so hard the devs needed two months to ackknowledge that there might be a bug somewhere?
Or more the part where your drones attack your corp- and group members?
Or do you wanna praise the system where you can't let Alliance members use your lab at a POS?
Or did you wanna hint at the fantastic feature where a POS produces space dust out of your corp members' ships when they warp to a POS for the umptienth time?
Maybe with 'intricate' you describe the highly intuitive corp and alliance interface system that's as easy to use than a good ole Microcomputer programming system using jumpers when the documentation's gone missing for a few years.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Teronolus
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Posted - 2006.04.17 10:50:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: Tachy
Maybe with 'intricate' you describe the highly intuitive corp and alliance interface system that's as easy to use than a good ole Microcomputer programming system using jumpers when the documentation's gone missing for a few years.
No, I'd say what was meant was the fact that EVE even has politics more complex than 'OMG yuo stoel my spwan j00 n00b. OMG my gulid is liek totly gona whoop j00s azzz!!!111eleven'
Granted, EVE has bugs. So does every single game ever made in the history of mankind. And yes, that includes the game 'catch'.
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\(>_<)\ \(>_<)/ /(>_<)/
GO TEAM |
Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.04.17 10:55:00 -
[14]
I love carebears.... the splat sound they make as the hull of the pod is breached by a 1400mm shell is like nothing else ever heard :)
O RLY?! --Jorauk
Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes |
Drazys
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:02:00 -
[15]
Carebears indeed. Just look at all the "pirates" who gatecamp with their T2 setups, safespotting away at first sign of something that could possibly shoot back. Of course, the fact that they avoid all dangers of PvP *after* ganking a few newbie ships or similar makes them Big Scary Pirates...
...Or maybe it is time to stop this stupid hypocrisy at last and realize that there are "carebears" at both sides of PvP fence.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:02:00 -
[16]
I luv Carebears. They give me ISKs. Without them, I would still be flying a Merlin. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:02:00 -
[17]
EVE is EVE, sure there are things i'd love to see changed, but then again i would like to see several things changed in the Real World as well, but they are not stopping me from enjoying RLÖ nor EVEÖ
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:07:00 -
[18]
I loved the time when you could sneak up on someone's pod and set it to self destruct.
Not the active pod, mind you, but there was a time when you could leave pods behind (and a bug that made you lose skills when secondary pods went squish).
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Teronolus
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Drazys
...Or maybe it is time to stop this stupid hypocrisy at last and realize that there are "carebears" at both sides of PvP fence.
Yup, there are two kinds of carebears: Those that are being abused and those that were abused. 
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\(>_<)\ \(>_<)/ /(>_<)/
GO TEAM |
Rick Dentill
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:09:00 -
[20]
I understand what you are saying, but dont get the carebear bit.
_______
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Koba Kyogen
This "elitist" vs "newbie" thing is tired. And yes, that is what it is.
I'm logging back in, where I have fun. Not on these forums with all the negativity.
K.K.
That is not what it is about at all. Read all of the OP  .The author is a new player who 'gets' Eve. It's nice to see some new players actually understand what Eve is about and is a welcome change from all the whine threads about 'wanting to be leet on day 3' and 'why can't I got to 0.0 when I pay $15 a month for it' etc.
I'm far from elite myself. Sure we have a 0.0 base and low sec stations and such but we had to fight / mine / trade / talk long and hard to get all that and every ay we have to remain vigilent and well armed to hold onto it. Because of all that it has real value to us and real meaning that I have never felt in any other game. One my corpies admited to getting a big ol'lump in his throat when he saw our first station come online after a massive logistical effort. You don't get that in Guild Wars or WoW.
Eve is cut throat and vicious and those savvy enough to get ahead early and brutal enough to stay ahead deserve to be where they are. Even the mighty can fall in Eve, just look at the Ubiquita Seraph (sp?). All power is transitory and if you don't believe it then you just ain't watching close enough.
I'm not rich and I'm not powerful but I get by. When the day comes I get lucky in the R&D lotto or I find a hidden system where young Gallente maidens fill my cargo hold with Zydrine I will know I made it by ducking and diving, wheeling and dealing and being the luckiest sob to ever fly a half lame shuttle through Pure Blind and live to tell of it.
Eve is a great game and never for a moment pretends to be fair. Some of us love it for that, some don't. That is what it is about.
>> RECRUITING << |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 17/04/2006 11:15:40
Originally by: Drazys
Carebears indeed. Just look at all the "pirates" who gatecamp with their T2 setups, safespotting away at first sign of something that could possibly shoot back. Of course, the fact that they avoid all dangers of PvP *after* ganking a few newbie ships or similar makes them Big Scary Pirates...
...Or maybe it is time to stop this stupid hypocrisy at last and realize that there are "carebears" at both sides of PvP fence.
Someone proposed to increase the sentry range. In case of gate sentries I think this is a good idea. I think 300km sentry range and the problem of untanked solo gate snipers in empire is solved.
( Station sentries could stay as they are, because some people want to kill npc haulers out of sentry range etc. )
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:15:00 -
[23]
Amen
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Drazys
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:20:00 -
[24]
I was using the gatecamp situation just as example of the sheer hypocrisy involved with the whole "carebear" situation, how it often looks like that ganking a few ships that have snowball's chance in hell of fighting back turns one from "cowardly risk-avoiding carebear" to "cunning pirate using tactics and avoiding obvious danger".
I've got nothing against player pirates... Heck, Eve would be mightily boring without them, just that the whole carebear/pirate- dualism tends to be as wrong as it is hypocritical.
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Michiyo Daishi
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I'm far from elite myself. Sure we have a 0.0 base and low sec stations and such but we had to fight / mine / trade / talk long and hard to get all that and every ay we have to remain vigilent and well armed to hold onto it. Because of all that it has real value to us and real meaning that I have never felt in any other game. One my corpies admited to getting a big ol'lump in his throat when he saw our first station come online after a massive logistical effort. You don't get that in Guild Wars or WoW.
Eve is cut throat and vicious and those savvy enough to get ahead early and brutal enough to stay ahead deserve to be where they are. Even the mighty can fall in Eve, just look at the Ubiquita Seraph (sp?). All power is transitory and if you don't believe it then you just ain't watching close enough.
I'm not rich and I'm not powerful but I get by. When the day comes I get lucky in the R&D lotto or I find a hidden system where young Gallente maidens fill my cargo hold with Zydrine I will know I made it by ducking and diving, wheeling and dealing and being the luckiest sob to ever fly a half lame shuttle through Pure Blind and live to tell of it.
Eve is a great game and never for a moment pretends to be fair. Some of us love it for that, some don't. That is what it is about.
QFT well said
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seeking freedom...
**requiring help regarding signature size |
Double TaP
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:27:00 -
[26]
I would like to to define carebear for everyone, because some people seem to think it means pure miner/trader, and that simply isn't true. A carebear is a player that avoids competition with other players, and seeks to only benefit himself. A lot of pvp'ers in 0.0 npc for money, but the act of npc'ing is a carebear act. Mining in empire and then undercutting the other players prices because you and your corp has more ore, thats pvp. Finding trade routes, and making a lot of money raising prices, thats a form of pvp. And of course, blowing up other players ships, is pvp. Whoring missions is not pvp. Putting up a pos is. Etc. Etc.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Double TaP
I would like to to define carebear for everyone, because some people seem to think it means pure miner/trader, and that simply isn't true. A carebear is a player that avoids competition with other players, and seeks to only benefit himself. A lot of pvp'ers in 0.0 npc for money, but the act of npc'ing is a carebear act. Mining in empire and then undercutting the other players prices because you and your corp has more ore, thats pvp. Finding trade routes, and making a lot of money raising prices, thats a form of pvp. And of course, blowing up other players ships, is pvp. Whoring missions is not pvp. Putting up a pos is. Etc. Etc.
Best definition of Carebears is people with +5 and -10 in their security status.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Double TaP
I would like to to define carebear for everyone, because some people seem to think it means pure miner/trader, and that simply isn't true. A carebear is a player that avoids competition with other players, and seeks to only benefit himself. A lot of pvp'ers in 0.0 npc for money, but the act of npc'ing is a carebear act. Mining in empire and then undercutting the other players prices because you and your corp has more ore, thats pvp. Finding trade routes, and making a lot of money raising prices, thats a form of pvp. And of course, blowing up other players ships, is pvp. Whoring missions is not pvp. Putting up a pos is. Etc. Etc.
Best definition of Carebears is people with +5 and -10 in their security status.
I thought it was people who want the game mechanics changed to suit their playstyle rather than adapting to the game. It makes no difference if it's a hauler wanting PvP to be by consent only or a pirate wanting WCS and sentry guns removed. Both are examples, by my definition of carebear.
That is why I see the guy asking for sentry guns to be made even more uber as a carebear while the sniper who is just adapting to the sentry guns in low sec (they were not always there) as not a carebear. Sniping is not the bravest tactic but low sec Eve is a dangerous hive of scum and villany so what did you expect .
I get sniped at all the time and if it's one or two ships shooting at a fast BS or tanked transport ship it's not a problem. A gank fleet is dangerous but hard to miss really. If sentry guns were made uber to the point snipers had to move closer and tank the sentry guns then I would have more problems. A couple of snipers is one thing but a couple of BS close enoug to use NOS, scrams and jammers = not good, sentry or no sentry. Some folk need to think this stuff through before crying nerf.
>> RECRUITING << |
TOZI
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Posted - 2006.04.17 12:39:00 -
[29]
I agree that in order for this game to get as big as other pvp based games ccp needs to make more room for starting players expanding empire about 25% should help, i have played several games like lineage2, starwars galaxies,ultima,everquest and so far starwars galaxies seems like the best balance between pvp and carebear i still have an eve account with 40 mill sp now but no incentive to log in, at work right now reading forums. If eve was to make it possible for me to explore 0.0 without to much risk i would play again. but why should i? i can play other games that allow this right now! star wars galaxies has space content and planet content as well, yo u can even dock and walk around on space stations! eve needs to get with it or get left in the dust imho
I would play again if i could set up my own station in eve or on a planet. but right now eve is to outdated. in another year or so things will be even worse with another generation of games coming out.
I even met a guy from BOB in Starwars galaxies he only logs into eve to start training like me. LOL
I hope someday EVE will grow in content as they have good promise. but untill then its to boring. 3isk ponied up
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.04.17 12:43:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 17/04/2006 12:43:26
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Best definition of Carebears is people with +5 and -10 in their security status.
Heh, me and my alt Plutoinum are Jenny approved carebears.
But seriously, it isn't my fault. I haven't been npc'ing for months. Once I dropped from 5.0 to 4.9 when we killed someone in low sec. But the NPCs that I shot at the gate, while we were roaming around in a fleet, were already enough to have my 5.0 back again after a few days.
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
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