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General Tso's
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Posted - 2006.04.17 19:01:00 -
[1]
I was just curious the Apoc has no bonus's to RoF or Damage, so if you fit 8 large projectiles on an apoc could you do more damage per second then 8 large energy turrets? Assuming skill level is equal in both energy and projectiles, and equipment is all max damage.
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Ravenal
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Posted - 2006.04.17 19:05:00 -
[2]
when taking reload into account - i doubt it (sorry for not posting calcs)
.
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.04.17 19:05:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: General Tso's
I was just curious the Apoc has no bonus's to RoF or Damage, so if you fit 8 large projectiles on an apoc could you do more damage per second then 8 large energy turrets? Assuming skill level is equal in both energy and projectiles, and equipment is all max damage.
would an apoc have more dps then a tempest with 8 projectiles without the damage mods and a full gank setup?
and full skilz ?
maybe nott hat bad idea
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.04.17 19:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ravenal
when taking reload into account - i doubt it (sorry for not posting calcs)
ur not suposed to reload!
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Mike Yagon
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Posted - 2006.04.17 20:05:00 -
[5]
Remember, lasers have a higher base damage than projectile guns. That's why they need the ship bonuses on the Minmatar ships. If you can live with a lower damage output, then yeah, they aren't a bad solution. But remember, you will never do the same damage as a Tempest will with them.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.04.17 20:18:00 -
[6]
You'll do about the same damage with 8 guns on apoc as you'd with 6 on tempest with min bs 3 (before damage mods). You'll do a lot more damage with lasers afaik, as projectiles at base kinda suck.
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.17 20:22:00 -
[7]
use lasers on an apoc.
the tempest 6 guns become equiv to 10, so a tempest with 6 guns does 25% more dmg than an apoc with 8guns!
stick lasers on the dam thing
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VanDam
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Posted - 2006.04.17 20:37:00 -
[8]
i knew some1 who did that he sed it worked quite well as apoc has alot of PG
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General Tso's
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Posted - 2006.04.17 21:28:00 -
[9]
the question isn't what has more dps an apoc or tempest, the question was restricted to apoc, and is between the two weapon systems. But Mike Yagon answered the question, thanks mike.
--------
They say the universe is perfect
If you try to change it, you'll only ruin it
If you try to hold onto it, it will only slip away |
Malacore
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Posted - 2006.04.17 21:33:00 -
[10]
I had always thought that the sole purpose people put projectiles on their apoc was to free up cap for the armor tank. I don't see any other logical reason.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.17 23:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Malacore
I had always thought that the sole purpose people put projectiles on their apoc was to free up cap for the armor tank. I don't see any other logical reason.
Choice of damage types.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.17 23:12:00 -
[12]
The reason to use projectiles on the apoc is because EM and therm damage suck. Especially when you're locked in to them and can't change.
They also free up grid for other guns.
And no, its not a bad idea. Its been done.
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2006.04.17 23:19:00 -
[13]
You wont do more damage with 8 1400mm on a apoc then 8 Tachyons.
You wont do more damage then a tempest with 8 1400mm on an apoc.
You will however, beable to change damage type. This means yes, projectiles can be very useful on an apoc. This was incredibly common back in the day when projectiles were good without bonuses. I think if you use em you will be kinda disappointed by the damage output.
Another huge advantage is that proj are alot easier to fit on an apoc then tachys or mega beams, which gives you more freedom in your setup.
So i guess if your already good with proj i would say go for it, but if your beam heavy already, training up to T2 large proj probably wont be worth the sp investment.
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qrac
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Posted - 2006.04.17 23:51:00 -
[14]
you get a nice alpha-strike for fleetbattles and you free up cpu for ew-modules.
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.04.17 23:56:00 -
[15]
An 8 1400 II apoc has the highest volley damage in the game.
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qrac
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Posted - 2006.04.18 00:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zysco
An 8 1400 II apoc has the highest volley damage in the game.
..if you're comparing battleships that is 
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.04.18 00:11:00 -
[17]
IIRC, a Apoc with 8x 1400mm does more DPS than a tempy with 6x 1400mm IF the tempy doesn't have minmatar battleship 5. If however the tempy does have bs5, the tempy wins.
That was pre-stacking change though. No idea if that is still true or not.
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Dimitrius Zabelle
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Posted - 2006.04.18 02:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: General Tso's
I was just curious the Apoc has no bonus's to RoF or Damage, so if you fit 8 large projectiles on an apoc could you do more damage per second then 8 large energy turrets? Assuming skill level is equal in both energy and projectiles, and equipment is all max damage.
The only real benefits to that are the neglegable ammount of cap that projectiles use, and the damage type..
If you have good gunnery and a high amarr BS skill then you might as well stick with lasers tho...
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.04.18 03:03:00 -
[19]
It takes around a day to get using projectiles rather than lasers. I'm training for it now, seems worth it, since the cap usage drops (better cap, stick on a heatsink type thing for projectiles?). But the main thing is being able to do the right kind of damage, where em/thermal are the wrong kind.
What I have done though is train up for torps, since you can pick the damage type I'll do a pack of damage - even if my missile skills are sub par. But it's no big exercise to train em up to level 3 across the board and I'll need missile skills for some of the T2 ships anyway. Apocalypse has 2 torps mountings.
For PvP, I'd stick to 8 lasers/6 and 2 smarts, or 6 and 2 nos. And of course when I get T2 large charge lasers I'll be back to using them. But for now for ratting I'll be using projectiles - at least trying them - when I get the skills up. And when my skills are higher the geddon will outclass the apoc.
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Wizie
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Posted - 2006.04.18 03:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Krulla
IIRC, a Apoc with 8x 1400mm does more DPS than a tempy with 6x 1400mm IF the tempy doesn't have minmatar battleship 5. If however the tempy does have bs5, the tempy wins.
That was pre-stacking change though. No idea if that is still true or not.
Tempest with BS 5 and arti spec 4... does 625 dps base with Quake ammo. 1400 IIs and 3 gyro IIs
Apoc with 8 1400 IIs and 3 gyros does 500.
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Khory Thunderstar
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Posted - 2006.04.18 14:17:00 -
[21]
Ok. For the sake of being easier to calculate, im considering you have skill 0 in alll gun related skills ( since you said that skills will be the same, the same bonuses will apply to all below. so the only thing that matters is the base damage )
Apoc - 8 guns
Tech I
8x1400mm 'Scout' Artillery ( the best tech I )
Powergrid - 26000
CPU - 320
Base damage - EMP (most damaging ammo)- 20 EMP, 16 EXP, 8 KIN - 44 base damage
Multiplier - 6.9
Damage/shot = 303.6
ROF = 1/23,63s
damage/volley = 2428.8 (1104 EMP, 883.2 EXP, 441.6 KIN )
DPS = 102.78 ( 46.72 EMP, 37.38 EXP, 18.69 KIN)
Laser Apoc
Tech I
8xTachyon Modulated Energy Beam I (Again, the best avaliable)
Powergrid = 30000
CPU = 384
Base Damage = Multifrequency ( highest damage crystal) - 28 EMP , 20 THE - 48 Base Damage
Multiplier = 5.4
Damage/shot = 259.2 (151.2 EMP, 108 THE)
ROF = 1/12.5
Damage/volley = 2073.6 ( 1209.6 EMP, 864 THE )
DPS = 165.89 ( 96.77 EMP, 69.12 THE )
Thats with TI guns and ammo. Lasers have a better DPS, but per shot damage on the 1400s will be better, and arty is easier to fit. Also, it has a wider range of damage types, but you will need to bring ammo, and will loose some time in the reloads.
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.04.18 14:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Malacore
I had always thought that the sole purpose people put projectiles on their apoc was to free up cap for the armor tank. I don't see any other logical reason.
Choice of damage types.
Stop saying this dammit. If you change damage types you lose out on DPS. It's a slight advantage but it's not the uber amazing thing everybody seems to think it is.
sgb
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.04.18 14:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The reason to use projectiles on the apoc is because EM and therm damage suck. Especially when you're locked in to them and can't change.
They also free up grid for other guns.
And no, its not a bad idea. Its been done.
another reason could be to cut down on cap usage so you can have an uber tank run forever
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Matsuo Masato
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Posted - 2006.04.18 15:54:00 -
[24]
its only good if you are ratting angels becus angels have like 70% em and 60% thermal res on shield and armor but only 40% and 50% explosiv and kin res
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.04.18 16:27:00 -
[25]
-Apoc with Autocannons-
Resistances - 82, 64, 66.25, 70.75 on Armor
8x800mm Repeating Artillery II vs 4xHardner II Apoc = 206.817 (EMP)
8xMega Pulse Laser II vs 4xHardner II Apoc = 259.875 (Multi)
Loss of : 53.058 DPS
8x800mm Repeating Artillery II vs 4xHardner II Apoc = 272.821 (Hail)
8xMega Pulse Laser II vs 4xHardner II Apoc = 324.964 (Con)
Loss of : 52.143 DPS
Energy Use EMP = 2.25
Energy Use Multi = 15.0
PG Left 800mm = 8531.0 PG
PG Left Mega Pulse = 4571.0 PG
-Tempest with Autocannons
6x800mm Repeating Artillery II vs Apoc Hardners = 258.479 (EMP)
6x800mm Repeating Artillery II vs Apoc Hardners = 340.973 (Hail)
So to sum this up. You lose DPS with autocannons on a apocalypse. Yet you can make up that DPS with Hail ammo fitted. Yet that's not concerdering reload loss of Hail. So overall lasers will have better DPS on a apocalypse no matter what you might think of resistances in this case. Yet if you use autocannons on a apocalypse you will SAVE a lot of PG as well energy when in combat. Which might be worth more to you than the loss of DPS. It's really your choice I guess?
These were fitted with the max level of every skill in the game to level 5. Apocalypse vs another apocalypse with 4xHardner II's activated on it. To simulate the DPS on those resistances.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.04.18 16:51:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Denrace on 18/04/2006 16:52:39
Go with Projectiles.
They make a really swell bang when they fire, which, afterall, is the most important part of pvp.
Den
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.04.18 17:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Uther Doull
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The reason to use projectiles on the apoc is because EM and therm damage suck. Especially when you're locked in to them and can't change.
They also free up grid for other guns.
And no, its not a bad idea. Its been done.
another reason could be to cut down on cap usage so you can have an uber tank run forever
8 1400s
2 xl shield boosters, em hardner, amp
7 cap relays
4tw
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Larsonist
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Posted - 2006.04.18 17:17:00 -
[28]
Quote:
8 1400s
2 xl shield boosters, em hardner, amp
7 cap relays
4tw
I almost laughed at this, then i realized i armor tank my raven
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.18 17:22:00 -
[29]
volley damage on an artypoc is absolutely ridiculous. DPS isn't amazing though - with BS levels at 4, a pest does 12.5% more DPS than an apoc with projectiles. Even with BS 3, the pest does a little more damage.
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.04.18 17:33:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Zysco on 18/04/2006 17:32:47
Originally by: Larsonist
Quote:
8 1400s
2 xl shield boosters, em hardner, amp
7 cap relays
4tw
I almost laughed at this, then i realized i armor tank my raven
Like 2 years ago this was the best apoc setup 
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