What does "Cap Recharge Time" mean?

This will do nothing to help the punisher, its still going to be utter garbage.

The rifter will be a bit better... Could you also make it possible to fit arties on T1 frigates? The fitting differential between small arties and small AC's is batshit insane.

One big flaw with both these ships is that utility highs are about as useful as half a extra midslot/lowslot.. so they effectively have less slots than the ones that don't have ****** utility highs.

I tested a Punisher fitted purely for neuts in PVP once. It worked, but our 3-man gang wasn't enough to capitalize on that against two opponents. We agreed that if it were a 3-1 or a 4-2 (another neuting Punisher), it would have been quite an effective little bugger.

Are the changes to logi frig cap recharge (ms I assume) significant? or just to offset the recharge from increased base cap? (ie, if I was cap stable before, will I be cap stable after?)

Interesting change for amarr

Punisher FW fit:

High:
Pulse Gatling II x 3
Small meta neut
Mid:
AB II
Scram II
Low:
HS II
DC II
400mm rolled tungsten
Adaptive Nano II
Rigs:
Trimark x 3

Right now you need a genolution set to fit this. After the PG buff you won't. The ship is fun if you avoid obvious kiters. 10k EHP is huge. The other lesser known strength of the punisher is that it's capacitor is sick. If you get into a neut fight with a slasher for example, the slasher will cap out while the punisher is still sitting at around 40% cap.

What do most pilots try to do against an Amarr ship? Neut it. Get under the guns. This fit plays to that strategy.

And yet I've used it to kill Firetails, Slashers, Tristans, incursi...

It indeed looks like a nerf.
The Vexor is a brawler boat. It has to to close on its target before releasing drones (Ogre's fly slower than the ship does). To lower its speed is just bad idea. Though with the drop in mass, I am curious what the MwD speed looks like.

I strongly disagree. A properly flown Vexor with a flight of 2 heavies, 2 mediums and 1 light is very, very viable in my experience. It's niche and it's hard to get in to actually apply your damage, but that's where the fun comes in. The 75 mbit/s bandwidth is there for a reason, and the reason is not to use 3 heavies (perhaps to use 3 sentries though).

Depends on the fight, the opponents, and what else is going on. In a 5-10 man cruiser gang, nobody is going to bother to pop your Ogre IIs. For example, I sometimes fly a shield 800 dps Vexor as part of a gang where I know there will be plenty of tackle/webs. That way the extra speed from being shield fit can allow me to close the distance to webbed targets, and my drones can take them down right quick. In a solo situation, I might be better off with mediums, but only maybe. I have somehow still managed to make Ogres hit frigates.

What I'm trying to get to is, the 2/2/1 setup is not universally bad. It is difficult to use, yes, but it has its place and is very effective when used right.

So there should be no other bandwidth amounts than 25, 50, and 125 for dedicated drone ships? Don't you find that... boring?

Why does the Algos have 35 bandwidth? Hint: it's the same reason the Vexor has 75, and the Myrmidon has 100.

Alternatively, why would anyone fly an Algos, Vexor, or Myrmidon instead of a Dragoon, Arbitrator, or Prophecy if they could field the exact same drones? The Amarr drone ships have lots of goodies (ewar or giant tank) compared to the Gallente ones. The only conclusion is that mix-and-match drone flights are an intended mechanic by CCP to give an edge to ships with odd drone bays.

Then why do I see dual rep, cap injected Vexors, and why do I see them wreck things, even when brawling? Even a cap injected dual rep fit can fit tackle and a Prop mod. The damage won't be exceptional, but it'll still be high while also allowing a powerful sustained tank against up to a small group of foes.

I'd say Vexors are the most commonly flown Combat Cruiser, and because of this I'd say it's a little stronger than other Combat Cruisers. I'm not really against a small nerf of it, so long as it's within reason. I'm not against changing it to more use mediums than heavies, but I am not against a small nerf either.

Though I'd say the Attack Cruisers might need a bit of a balancing pass, what with the Caracal and Thorax being so prominent while the Stabber and Omen seem to fall behind in use.

Sorry, the "but it can't apply damage" argument against using mediums on an Algos or heavies on a Vexor just won't fly with me because I have repeatedly seen the exact opposite. Managed right, both those ships can apply scary amounts of damage with oversized drones, at the trade-off of having less versatility in smaller drones.

So the popularity of a ship has nothing to do with its effectiveness, absolutely nothing at all. Alright, sounds legit. People don't fly ships because they're strong or have a higher chance of surviving/winning fights, they fly them because they don't mind losing their investment every time they get into a fight.

I mean, I have go-to ships for fun, but I also have go-to ships for when I need to win a fight, and those also happen to be fun to fly too, so there is some overlap that causes me to fly the good ships more than the "fun" ships.

I'm sorry, but there is something to be said for usage statistics. Don't use them as the be all and end all, but definitely use them to see where problems may exist.

Why not giving it the same double damage bonus the ruppi has. The ruppi shows that it's not OP, it'd be equivalent to merlin, punisher and incursus dps/tank bonus, and people would still be able to fit a TE gaining a similar falloff bonus... Or to go full dps.

Its not, not even close.

Any chance Destroyers are going to be looked at? *cough* Corax *cough*

As pointed out by a corp mate, I'm not really a fan of how the caracal's ROF bonus interacts with the RLML's clip size. I think a damage bonus would be much more appropriate, as it actually increases your damage output before you need to reload. The ROF bonus simply decreases the amount of time until you need to reload.

For that matter, the Bellicose could use a similar treatment.

I'll echo the sentiments already posted: RoF is a Caldari trait and missile damage is a Minmatar trait, so this is effectively a nerf. Please reconsider just leaving this as a damage bonus.

I'd take swapping the high for another low, if the Rifter is really supposed to be the tank/gank model of the combat frigs like they said. Getting a decent arty kite fit is still going to be hard.

Nobody is asking for utility highs to be removed, at least that I saw. They are asking for utility highs on frigates to be removed because they are useless, or for small neuts to be rebalanced to make those slots useful.

There's a very small niche for frigate NOS on a heavy tackler, but that usually doesn't work well due to gang mates shooing the frigate away in pieces. I miss the U-High on the Malediction cause it was one of the few (aka only) tacklers that could survive doing this. On general combat frigates these slots are nothing but heat sinks.

Wow, I seriously hope you two are trolling... because your both old enough to know better.

Glad to see the Rifter buff - it seems up until now the 'tiericide' had completely shafted the then-popular Minmatar ships - now we just need some more love for the Tempest.

Also go ahead fit arty to a rifter, the arty tail needs dual webs to be somewhat effecient and it has a tracking bonus. The arty wolf has a tracking bonus and at the range it wants to be you can pretty easily mitigate allot of it's dps in an ab frig... So what will the rifter do????

if you want to fly a frig with great tank , dps, and cap with no utility high , fly the tormentor. Granted the ship is fugly, but remember it used to be a mining frig.

also, dont you dare remove that utility high on the punisher!!!

Need to fix Rubicon 1.3.

Make Tristan the cute and lovely ship it used to be, not the ugly version nobody wants to fly.

1) Ship looks cool
2) Ship can push 8.3k EHP with a 400mm plate
3) Has three mids for an Amarr frigate
4) My fit has 4.9k EHP, reps 121 DPS, and puts out 171 - 203 DPS overheating on Scorch/ IMF respectively.

Scram range kiter might not be your thing but the Tormentor is a solid ship.