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KnowUsByTheDead
Old Seers Of Arbitrary Stimulation
987
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Posted - 2014.02.27 09:14:00 -
[61] - Quote
Grr Scammers. All they do is hurt legitimate business ventures.
It is quite upsetting.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Grunanca
Doughboys
Shadow Cartel
156
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 09:17:00 -
[62] - Quote
Scams is a part of this game. As long as the scam comes down to intelligence and not badly designed UI etc, its just what the game is about, and part of what makes it awsome compared to any other science fiction game out there. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Direwolf-Rayet
skylian Verge
187
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Posted - 2014.02.27 10:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
Farsiris Arbosa wrote:So I ask you: where do you stand on scamming in EVE? Fair game, or exceptionally awful?
From the point of view of game mechanics, scams are just another part of the game that bring diversity to EVE. Removing scams from the game would make EVE more generic and boring.
However, if you compare other aggressive parts of the game (pirating, ganking, ....) to scams, you can see why many are annoyed about scams - it's spam. Pure, uncreative, repetitive spam. I like when a new kind of scam hits the game. It adds to the gameplay for the whole community. What I don't like are repetitive scams that are in the game for multiple years and the worst part is, many of them are not even that creative. I'll list a few:
- trade window scam where you name regular ship as its faction version. Seriously, be more creative;
- plex scam where a 0 or two is missing;
- plex scam where you pay ISK and plex to get plex;
- ISK doubling... that one is the most annoying one. Every time I see one I feel like my IQ dropped a couple of points.
- BPC instead of BPO scam. I don't know why this one is still around. They've fixed icons years ago and added text descriptions for each BP;
One universal reason why I don't like previously listed scams is that almost all of them target new players or players that are not familiar with the UI, game mechanics or the community.
There are, however, some of the old ones that I still like to see:
- Carbon/Charon Proteins/Proteus scam. I like it because you can fall for it even if you are an experienced player who doesn't pay attention;
- Fitted ship on contract with ship missing from the list of items. Same reason as the one above.
- Margin trading scam because face it, it is creative.
- Banks, stock markets and gambling sites because players who run them invest effort other than pure spam that later pays off. Spam part that is present with these types of scams is, however, annoying.
Personally, I don't like being involved in scams and I can recognize one when I see it very quickly.
I have only once profited from a margin trading scam when I noticed it being setup for a rarely used T2 item that I happened to have T1 blueprint for. I just quickly invented T2 blueprint, grabbed a bunch of materials that I already had, manufactured those items and listed them on Sell orders just below scammer's items. I later figured it's too time consuming to hunt down other plausible ventures like that since you never know which item is used in the scam and when.
CCP Ytterbium: Yarrblblbgrlblbgrlblblblbblbgrlblblbgrblblyarrrrdrooooooolonthekeyboardlikealunatic   |
Irsam Samri
TROLL PATROL
WINMATAR.
44
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Posted - 2014.02.27 14:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
I dont know why people are kidding themselves, like getting scammed is something that happens because you are dumb. It happens because you are new and uninformed. And yes, many of these people quit.
I dont know if in the spirit of eve you can outright ban scamming, but how prevalent it is just makes it impossible to trust anyone but the market, and even then you can get scammed.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4700
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
Irsam Samri wrote:I dont know why people are kidding themselves, like getting scammed is something that happens because you are dumb. It happens because you are new and uninformed. And yes, many of these people quit.
I dont know if in the spirit of eve you can outright ban scamming, but how prevalent it is just makes it impossible to trust anyone but the market, and even then you can get scammed.
Yes, because we all know that new & uninformed players have tens of billions in assets that they will give to someone because they are new & uninformed. People get scammed due to greed. Scams play on a persons greed,
This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Bobinu
Devils Diciples
League of Infamy
50
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Posted - 2014.02.27 15:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
I dont like spamming scammers,
I have been caught a few times, some of these I used myself!!
Clever scams fair play, annoying scams jog on. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19672
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:50:00 -
[67] - Quote
Irsam Samri wrote:I dont know why people are kidding themselves, like getting scammed is something that happens because you are dumb. It happens because you are new and uninformed. That would make sense if scams targeted the new and uninformed. Generally, they go after the ones who have some actual money to spend GÇö the older onesGǪ who, while they could conceivably still be uninformed, rather seem to fall in the GÇ£dumbGÇ¥ category based on how they then complain about what happened.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Irsam Samri
TROLL PATROL
WINMATAR.
44
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
new players can and do buy a plex and sell it for 600 mil |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
CODE.
3901
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:48:00 -
[69] - Quote
While I don't scam, my rules specifically require a minimum time in game. However, to be fair, if a new person sends isk, I am forced to keep it. Rules are rules.
Something else that should be considered is that some of these "new" players who immediately join the game with tens of billions and tens of millions of skillpoints acquired such thing in a naughty fashion. If they lose it all to scammers, then the scammers are unwittingly helping to make Eve a better place.
See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
267
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Posted - 2014.02.27 18:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:I tossed 2 mill at an isk doubler for entertainment, and a creative explanation on how I broke the rules.
He won't tell me D:
Now thats just wrong. Isk doublers should have a special clause in the eula requiring them to give out creative reasons for keeping your money. Its no fun without that.
New player resources:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information
http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP
http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Serene Repose
Saanen Freight Service
953
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
According to Sammy "The Bull" Gravano, La Cosa Nostra would not exist without greedy people wanting something for nothing.
I don't think he takes into account the added expense to metropolitan infrastructure with regard to hauling away all those bodies, and having the mortuary space for them. Though, with regard to that, there is a plus in the employment arena; homocide detectives, forensics experts, even the coroner's office.
The court room arena seems to be 50/50 with soaring costs, however ample employment opportunity with a herd of assistant DAs, and of course the fabulous courthouse with its attendent slate of employees from the parking garage to mopping the floors.
The big however with New Eden is, the "state" has no real interest in combatting crime as there are no opportunities for ambitious attorneys and the like; for instance no outside chance to become a Supreme Court justice.
So, I'm like a lot of folks with regard to this. When I'm standing I'm usually standing right here. *points at "here"*
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Rhatar Khurin
Happy Asteroid Ltd
524
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
I've never been scammed, although i do buy a lot of shuttles for 10 million isk. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
Solar Assault Fleet
1004
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:16:00 -
[73] - Quote
In game scamming is a vital part of the game.
So I support that 100%.
The spamming of scams is annoying.
And the out of game meta scamming is just bad.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil.
CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
176
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:27:00 -
[74] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:SpoonRECKLESS wrote:Farsiris Arbosa wrote:Piracy and "blue collar" crimes, in general, are viewed as fair game in the EVE community.
Scamming, scheming, and white collar crimes, on the other hand, seem a lot more controversial. I hear a lot of people say that they think of it as something outside of normal moral EVE boundaries, and others who say it's just another way to make some ISK.
So I ask you: where do you stand on scamming in EVE? Fair game, or exceptionally awful?
Personally, I think that all is fair in love and EVE. My opinion may be a little biased, since I've never been a victim of a scam (nor scammed anyone else), but I generally harbor the philosophy that anything in EVE that doesn't involve a) hacking, b) messing with someone's account or c) the real world is within the realm of fair game. If you're dumb enough to fall for a scam in eve you have it coming my opinion its fair. I mean come on the saying goes if its to good to be true its a trap!! Also that mega on gate has a cyno just don't shoot the cyno bait. If you promise me that if I lend you 100m isk, and within 1 month you'll repay me 110m isk, and you choose to keep all of it and never return it, then you are a bad person for lying to me and stealing. *edit* just for clarification, having seen you support stealing, I'll never consider you worthy of being trusted. So don't even try.
LOL!!! Its a game man get over it. I'm trust worthy,To those I call friends not strangers who judge me on how I play a game. Its greed is why people get scammed. You're trying to say stealing in a game would reflect on someone in real life thats the real joke. I bet you the biggest and most dirtiest of scammers in eve are very easy going laid back people you will ever meet.
And just for clarification I wouldn't accept isk for your pod even if you had cookie with double chip chocolate.
Blue
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Marsha Mallow
103
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:27:00 -
[75] - Quote
I used to consider scamming amusing but not something I'd do, until someone bought from an overpriced market order and the ISK went to me. I was debating returning the ISK (I think it was a 600m cap recharger or something) then the guy mailed me shrieking abuse. So I kept the ISK and told him as condescendingly as possible to treat it as a lesson learned. Think it's happened a few times since, the conversation always goes the same way, and I still don't feel the slightest twinge of guilt.
Similar thing happened when I was selling researched BPO sets at something like 300% markup. Someone mailed me screaming I was a scammer to which I retorted, nope, just greedy. He then demanded the BPOs at NPC price, which I ignored. Then some other idiot, ahem I mean valued customer, bought it.
You don't have to be an outright scammer to toe that line, especially when you are setting sale prices. If extortion is OK, don't see any problem with outright scamming, although as someone earlier said crossing the line into RL stuff is distasteful.
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MonkeyMagic Thiesant
Shockwave Innovations
Surely You're Joking
49
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
Nothing wrong with scamming.
Bots that sit in Amarr/Jita spamming up the channels are another matter. They make local unusable for others and should be dealt with. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
98
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:44:00 -
[77] - Quote
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:greedy victims 
I don't mind the low-down, back-stabbing, thieving scoundrels -- it's the beggars I don't care for (ex. "I'm new and someone just killed my venture - please give me some money")
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
929
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Posted - 2014.02.27 21:03:00 -
[78] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
The rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
ISD Ezwal
Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
10499
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Posted - 2014.02.27 21:12:00 -
[79] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:And the out of game meta scamming is just bad.
Then send me 500mil ISK and Ill make it stop.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
Forsaken Asylum
1551
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Posted - 2014.02.27 22:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
Scams, corporate espionage / heists, it's all good. It's part of what makes this game GREAT.
Anybody can prevent it from happening, it just requires common sense and a bit of personal OpSec.
Happily, some of the juiciest "targets" just can't be arsed.
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
482
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Posted - 2014.02.28 02:14:00 -
[81] - Quote
I support scams 100%.
New Eden is a dystopian universe filled with unscrupulous characters who will screw you over and take your things. This is not a nice place. Whether people screw you over with nonconsensual pvp or by taking advantage of your poor reading comprehension - it's all allowed and it all contributes to pgc. That's why I don't block scammers in local. I block no one. I want to be exposed to that vile, nasty underbelly of scamming scum. It's a part of the game and the only people I see with issues are those who spend their days in hub locals whiteknighting and debunking scams 24/7. Constantly trying to save ppl from being screwed over just proves that you don't get EVE. This game rewards ppl who take advantage of other ppl!
YK
EVE RADIO: Music for the Masses!-á-á chat-áchannel: eve radio |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2014.02.28 02:28:00 -
[82] - Quote
I know people who have quit because of scammers. The scammers are jerks plain and simple... |
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
482
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Posted - 2014.02.28 02:57:00 -
[83] - Quote
Then EVE is not the proper game for them and the chance that 'quitters' would otherwise have become long-term players is pretty low. People who quit because they got scammed will quit because they get ganked too often, because they get wardecced too much, or because they get bountied again and again, etc. etc. etc. IT'S ALL SO UNFAIR!!!
Overcoming adversity is a requirement of EVE. It's supposed to be hard. HTFU?
Besides, scammers need love too.
Have you hugged a scammer today?
YK
EVE RADIO: Music for the Masses!-á-á chat-áchannel: eve radio |
Doireen Kaundur
Riftmage
62
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Posted - 2014.02.28 03:07:00 -
[84] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:Then EVE is not the proper game for them and the chance that 'quitters' would otherwise have become long-term players is pretty low. People who quit because they got scammed will quit because they get ganked too often, because they get wardecced too much, or because they get bountied again and again, etc. etc. etc. IT'S ALL SO UNFAIR!!! Overcoming adversity is a requirement of EVE. It's supposed to be hard. HTFU? Besides, scammers need love too. Have you hugged a scammer today? YK
I own a billboard outside a well frequented jump gate in a high sec region. Ive been wanting to unload it for a very cheap 500million isk. If anyone is interested let me know. We can fly out together to the billboard, and uopn isk transference you take immediate possesion of the billboard.
Just imagine the bragging rights you will have with your corpmates when you tell them you own an EVE billboard.
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Xia Kairui
United System's Commonwealth
68
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Posted - 2014.02.28 07:48:00 -
[85] - Quote
Farsiris Arbosa wrote:So I ask you: where do you stand on scamming in EVE? Fair game, or exceptionally awful?
I think scams are good and should remain allowed as long as they can be averted with a little common sense.
The Margin Trading scam is a bit dubious, as this is bordering on abusing game mechanics for your own gain since there is no way to discern if an order is legit or not. It also undermines trust in the market which makes trading harder.
But then most if not all MT scams can be detected if you simply check prices or price history. Or simply think a moment about the advert basically saying: "OMG look at this order which you can make tons of money off but I rather shout about it than make that money myself".
Interestingly, spending a few days in Jita prepared me rather well for all the pitfalls and hooks in real life insurances and mortgages.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
2858
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Posted - 2014.02.28 07:56:00 -
[86] - Quote
Xia Kairui wrote: there is no way to discern if an order is legit or not.
I am really, really tired of hearing this lie repeated.
[Edit: Hell's freaking bells, you even admit it yourself 2 sentences later.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Boomhaur
194
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Posted - 2014.02.28 09:22:00 -
[87] - Quote
Scams:
This is Eve Online, this is were the evil sick sadistic bastards gather to play a game. It's where WoW players come to play expecting to PWN everyone in a months time in a titan only to be slaughtered, scammed, used and immediately told to HTFU or play Hello Kitty Online.
Had someone tried to scam me a few hours ago, I was impressed this one tried actually talking to me and put in some effort. But failed miserably in execution when trying to scam me out of a 425mil part and isk in a contract. I laughed, at end of the day I've seen just about every scam there is thanks to Eve.
Heck I've known people in real life who were talking about some opportunity that came knocking at their door recently and how they were thinking about taking advantage of it to be quickly cut off by me when I started breaking down to them how that scam works in great detail. Lets just say the wise ones listen, and than wonder how I learned all this from a video game.
Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
351
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Posted - 2014.02.28 09:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
Farsiris Arbosa wrote:a lot more controversial
Can't really understand why. They (scams etc.) add flavour to EvE which is good.
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
83
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Posted - 2014.02.28 10:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
Scams are fine.
I think the cost of setting up/maintaining some irrational buy/sell orders however are just that, a bit irrational.
I dont even nearly completely understand the vagaries of margin trading and escrow, but I suspect there are some eleents there that need taking a look at. Player behavior is self-regulating, and the gross aggragate of that, is rational. When instances of irrarionality begin tomoccur, its a sign of the limitations of the environment external influences on that self-regulating player behavior.
I think CCP would do well to dedicate a future patch to an overview of trading, and see if they cant more closely model some elements of it on existing IRL trading systems, regulations, taxes, fees and types of buy/sell orders as well as financing them.
I dont consider those "scams". I rather consider themma result of the large part of essentially NPC based market elements and trade affecting elements being very static and undynamic, and the games system as a whole not being quite "finished" yet interms of an NPC system that would emulate the IRL elements of market authorities and regulators being sure they too get their cut.
POCOS was a good change in this direction, as players can set the tax they wish. But the NPC based authorities on stations and variousnfunctiins of stations, are completely undynamic (except for responding to Standing).
One example of this, is Jita. IRL a marketplace in such high demand would be charging a premium for people to do business on their premisis. Though Corp office rent scales dynamically with the demand, the price of doing business there, does not, because the NPC Jita authorities have not responded dynamically at all to demand of their services. (Except in the indirect fashion that a bottleneck has formed at entry points) |
Xia Kairui
United System's Commonwealth
74
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Posted - 2014.02.28 12:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Xia Kairui wrote: there is no way to discern if an order is legit or not.
I am really, really tired of hearing this lie repeated. [Edit: Hell's freaking bells, you even admit it yourself 2 sentences later.
Ok, I was a bit vague. There is no real hard proof in game generated by the client that shows you whether an order is going to be fulfilled.
You can extrapolate from the price history using your own knowledge, but the information the client gives you is that someone offered a helluva money for that item. It's only my personal experience that says "if there's only that single order at that price, chances are high it's a scam". In fact, someone might ACTUALLY have made that buy order (mistyping the price or so) so it might be a legit offer, and there's no way to see it.
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