Is it a fear of the learning cliff?

BOOO!

So I was talking to some friends tonight that I used to play another "mmo" with. My question was, "why don't you play EvE?". They're still on the same ****** game for years. No development, no interesting changes, diminishing player-base.

These people have the potential to be "great" EvE players. They can find and exploit new features pretty effectively, use abstract tactics, and are willing to win at all costs. Also they like the "politics" aspect of gaming, and the meta-game.

Is it a fear of the learning cliff? Would they rather stay in the baby sandbox and "win" over taking a chance in the "big pond"?

Has anyone else had the same experience with their gaming "friends"?

EVE is to Chess
what other MMOs are to Checkers.

Not everyone has the mind for chess.

EVE is to Chess
what other MMOs are to Checkers.

Not everyone has the mind for chess.

Or did you mean EVE is to other MMOs
what Chess is to Checkers?

Note to self: Dont post when you are tired or drunk

Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

Not true at all.

A couple of PLEX worth of ISK and a visit to the character bazaar will have you in a battleship in a few days if that's what you really desire.

Yea I guess that's true. As of right now the initial entrance fee into EVE is like what? $10? $15? There are still alot of games out there that costs $45, $50, $60, even $70. Paying in between those prices for the most developed character along the path they wish to pursue would not be a bad investment.

Yea I guess that's true. As of right now the initial entrance fee into EVE is like what? $10? $15? There are still alot of games out there that costs $45, $50, $60, even $70. Paying in between those prices for the most developed character along the path they wish to pursue would not be a bad investment.

These forums are terrible. Lost several interesting points (and posts) into the ether.

Along with it went my "internet friends" excuses for not playing EvE. Nothing exciting, just the usual bullshit.

The thing with Eve is it takes a while to get anywhere.... People want their super shiny stuff NOW. Like a baby who's been denied a lolly in super market que they'll kick and scream to get what they want and kill the game at the same time (World of Warcraft). Thankfully CCP has not bowed to these same pressures as much as other developers have and kept the game tough. It weeds out the weaklings and crushes their skulls.

The thing with Eve is it takes a while to get anywhere.... People want their super shiny stuff NOW. Like a baby who's been denied a lolly in super market que they'll kick and scream to get what they want and kill the game at the same time (World of Warcraft). Thankfully CCP has not bowed to these same pressures as much as other developers have and kept the game tough. It weeds out the weaklings and crushes their skulls.

So basically, wait?

New people should sign up to EVE and then wait. Wait a long time.

Yea that sounds fine. Lets try advertising the game like that:

Look at these awesome space ships! Fly battle ships! Fly Carriers! Fly TITANS!!!!!!!!! After a long wait. Yes, we want YOU to sign up for EVE today and wait a year so you too can fly those awesome amazing super cool ships!

Join EVE now and begin WAITING today!

SIGN ME UP

So basically, wait?

New people should sign up to EVE and then wait. Wait a long time.

Yea that sounds fine. Lets try advertising the game like that:

Look at these awesome space ships! Fly battle ships! Fly Carriers! Fly TITANS!!!!!!!!! After a long wait. Yes, we want YOU to sign up for EVE today and wait a year so you too can fly those awesome amazing super cool ships!

Join EVE now and begin WAITING today!

SIGN ME UP

Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

The bare minimum amount of time it would take for me to get into a Widow is 106 days. And that's to be able to sit in it and not effectively use it. To train up the required skills to pilot it effectively would take another 200 days. Granted you could fly it without all the other necessary skills, but it would be a huge liability considering your inefficient fittings and related skills.

Why would you ask your friends to waste a year?

Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

Not everyone has the mind for chess.

What is wrong with having to wait for a while to be able to fly the big shiny toys? Who says that you can not go out and have a blast with tech1 frigattes. It simply is your mindest that is limiting yourself.

If you wait until you can fly a faction battleship or any other expansive ship before you start actually having fun in the game i really hope that i will be the first person you try to have a fight with in that ship.

And if anything is discouraging new players to go out and have fun in the first days it is people like you who spread that nonsense around that you need millions of sp to actually be useful for a group. All those people including you do not have a ******* clue what they are talking about.

Bottom line is: I just want to take a look at the game for a month or two because you probably need like a year of play to say you actually joined the game.

As an EVE noob I am constanly learning...the hard way.

What Ive found though is that every loss is a learning expereince. I enjoy hauling and mission running. When it comes to low sec, Warp Core Stabs have been my best freinds as I am only really interested in getting away and not fighting. They have their limitations though. For example, if you are overpowered by a mob of warp scrambers, you may as well hang it up.

But recently I was popped by some guy in low-sec with a single scrambler. All I could do was just sit there and watch him eat away at my shileds....waiting for the inevitable....wondering how he was doing it.

Afterward I contacted him and asked how he was able to scramble me with just 1 scrambler versus my 4 warp core stabilzers?

ME:> Hey dude. how did you scramble me with just one scrambler?

HIM> I was in heavy interdictor with scripted point. Its only ship which can tackle titans or super carriers in lowsec. No matter how many WCS you fit

ME> Ah cool. thanks, I didnt know

HIM> fly safe

That one expereince taught me tons. So my atttitude towards EVE is that every loss teaches you something new as I continue to progress in the game....one black eye at a time.

I don't think it's fair to call it a failure of CCP. They've created a game for a demographic. People who get it enjoy the game. People who don't won't. It's not a failure of CCP that (potentially) you are not their target market.

Waiting for the big ships does not bother me. What seems problematic to me is that I cannot seem to fly even the most basic ships, T1 frigates, to their maximum potential. I've been playing for almost a month now and I am still extremely limited, even with the most basic ships.

I do not necessarily want to join eve and have access to a battleship. But seeing as how the Frigate is the weakest combat ship, I cannot hope to achieve effective efficiency even with it.

I understand that I can join a fleet and be "useful" in absorbing a few seconds of someone's attention while the heavy hitters do their work. I understand I can tackle a ship so allies can get in position and fight him. But what I cannot do, what I want to, is fight on an even playing field solo against anyone.

I think alot of other new people would like to do that as well. Be able to fly one of the T1 frigates to it's maximum potential to make frigate fights a contest between skill and not who's spent more time logged out. Yet in this realm, it's unrealistic.

There's only like 6 things we can do:

Tackle in a fleet

Fly the most ineffective logistics ships that transfer like 30 shields per second (while friendlies are taking 400 dps, making it near inconsequential)

Fly ewar, which low skill makes it so you have to get close, with ewar being targetted first always so you probably don't even get one jamming cycle off before you're obliterated.

Mine - booorrrriinnng

Do level 1 missions - moderately interesting at first, until they start repeating over and over again and you realize how shallow the mission depth is, while it pays you next to nothing for the time invested compared to mining

Or haul goods around in a paper thin, liable to be destroyed by anyone at anytime for LoLs industrial ship hauling goods around, literally risking everything for next to nothing in comparison.

I think RvB would be great for DE if he was able to lose his spectacularly horrible self-righteous attitude

It's only a spectacularly horrible self-righteous attitude towards the people who disagree with me, or wish to contribute towards the negativity that is so ever present on these forums by bandwagoning insults in an attempt elicit an emotional response so they can feel they've had an impact on someone.

I think it's safe to say, concerning the total number of people who play EVE compared to how many people post on the EVE forums, there potentially could be more people who view the way I act as perfectly legitimate than there could be people claiming those who wish to support others choice to steal is legitimate.

I doubt you'll agree though. Judging by the way you post towards me, I'm willing to bet you both disagree with my opinion and wish to insult me hoping to elicit an emotional response from me so you can feel you've had an impact.

Something like that is not possible in EvE. No matter how many sp you have... even a team of 2 low sp chars can take you down easily if they know what they are doing. And yes.. you will have a hard time solo for a long time but even though you will never admit this, it is because of the lack of experience and knowledge that you will get killed and with your mindset this will never change, no matter how many sp you get. Especially in 1v1 situations.

No, you're wrong. Of course I'll admit it. But because I don't have the proper skills trained because I haven't had enough time, I'll not be able to tell if my loss is due to my bad tactics and choices or if it was because the other guy had more time invested in the right places.

When I lose, I don't get to see all of his fittings. I don't "know" what went wrong.

Because there's a really high chance he's got higher skill points in the right places compared to me, I crucial variable of the equation is missing. I don't get to try and solve it because all I know is what I have and lost. Was it his ship fittings? Was it mine? Was it the tactic? I can't even begin to know because maybe he has better skills.

Maybe I played it right. Maybe the only reason I lost is because he has better skills.

Maybe the only reason I lost is because he has better fittings.

Maybe I played it poorly.

Maybe he's really good.

All of those are possibilities, but I cannot know because since I know my skills are lower and I lost, I can't even begin to pin point where the problem is. Tactics and fittings never get to come into the equation because even with the best tactics and best fittings, due to skills I can still lose.

Is it 100% always my fault? Is it always because I played it wrong? I can't know that because my skills are holding me back from my potential, and as a new player you don't know the potential.

Waiting for the big ships does not bother me. What seems problematic to me is that I cannot seem to fly even the most basic ships, T1 frigates, to their maximum potential. I've been playing for almost a month now and I am still extremely limited, even with the most basic ships.

BOOO!

So I was talking to some friends tonight that I used to play another "mmo" with. My question was, "why don't you play EvE?". They're still on the same ****** game for years. No development, no interesting changes, diminishing player-base.

These people have the potential to be "great" EvE players. They can find and exploit new features pretty effectively, use abstract tactics, and are willing to win at all costs. Also they like the "politics" aspect of gaming, and the meta-game.

Is it a fear of the learning cliff? Would they rather stay in the baby sandbox and "win" over taking a chance in the "big pond"?

Has anyone else had the same experience with their gaming "friends"?

Then group up with several other new players and look for solo targets. I guarantee you, that 3-5 newb-skilled frigates can raise quite a hell for even advanced player. Esp. if one of them is a racial jammer fitted griffin.

But then again, there is *effort* and *thinking* involved in this.

As a recent new player thats been playing Eve for about a month, I can answer your questions, as I was not the only person that decided to give the trial an actual try. There were 8 of us. Only I decided to stay. Keep in mind that these reasons are for my friends, yours may be different and have their own reasons for doing so.

Their reasons, in no particular order, many of which I agree BTW, just think its still worth it to stick around despite the shortcomings, are as follows:

1. Once your skills get up to lvl 3-4, its like watching paint dry. There is nothing exciting about the progression itself.

2. No catch up mechanism. Especially in PvP. From what we see a player that will stay in this game for few months vs player that has been here for x years has absolute zero chance of success, unless the latter goes AFK, does something real stupid, or the new player gets extremely lucky. It takes too many years to catch up.

3. There is nothing "cute" here. Literally. There is nothing here to catch the girls eyes (your girls may vary but mine do not).

4. Unclear path or lack of path, to self sufficiency with ISK, and within most of the game systems. Running low level rat missions does not provide anywhere near enough ISK necessary to PvP and ship replacement at the necessary pace. It takes 3-4 days of gaming for 1 day of PvP.

5. Gathering is too boring. Trying to get your own mats for manufacturing is boring to tears, yet you cant AFK cause of rats or other players. So...... back to the unprofitable missions ...

6. Too much external crap necessary to play the game. encyclopedias, API keys, apps like EFT. All this stuff needs to get canned. Everyone should be spending their time playing the game not looking stuff up on encyclopedias about it for the most part. It should all be self explanatory from within.

7. The UI is horrid. Especially the overview. Even when you use an overview pack such as Sarah's or one of the other ones, it still leaves a lot to be desired and often bugs out on people and has to be reloaded.

8. Too many spreadsheets too little action. Cant jump into action due to start-up skill and ISK and faction standing discrepancy. Back to the missions not providing enough base income and messing up players security standings on top of that.


Well, that is just for the guys that were with me, others may va

6. Too much external crap necessary to play the game. encyclopedias, API keys, apps like EFT. All this stuff needs to get canned. Everyone should be spending their time playing the game not looking stuff up on encyclopedias about it for the most part. It should all be self explanatory from within.

And that is how it has been for EVERYONE else in this game who has been playing longer than you. Everyone else had to go through the same stuff you have to go through right now.

Isn't that a fair approach? We all have to go through the same crap to get to the goodies.

Would you like a cash shop? Where you can buy SP for real money?
Would that be fair?

No, you're wrong. Of course I'll admit it. But because I don't have the proper skills trained because I haven't had enough time, I'll not be able to tell if my loss is due to my bad tactics and choices or if it was because the other guy had more time invested in the right places.

When I lose, I don't get to see all of his fittings. I don't "know" what went wrong.

Because there's a really high chance he's got higher skill points in the right places compared to me, I crucial variable of the equation is missing. I don't get to try and solve it because all I know is what I have and lost. Was it his ship fittings? Was it mine? Was it the tactic? I can't even begin to know because maybe he has better skills.

Maybe I played it right. Maybe the only reason I lost is because he has better skills.

Maybe the only reason I lost is because he has better fittings.

Maybe I played it poorly.

Maybe he's really good.

All of those are possibilities, but I cannot know because since I know my skills are lower and I lost, I can't even begin to pin point where the problem is. Tactics and fittings never get to come into the equation because even with the best tactics and best fittings, due to skills I can still lose.

Is it 100% always my fault? Is it always because I played it wrong? I can't know that because my skills are holding me back from my potential, and as a new player you don't know the potential.

You are wrong. Listen to the advice given in this topic. Learning to play this games needs an investment in time, as does every game. What is not to understand about this?

First off, I would like to say thanks for making a post in this thread on this topic explaining an issue you've directly encountered with potential new players to the EVE Online universe.

I agree with the majority of your post.

Not to pick on you, but I'd like to use what I quoted, your #6 to express my own opinion on that subject.

That's actually one of the aspects of this game I like. It's alot to learn. I enjoy learning. It gives me another interesting thing to think about. All of the different possibilities, the potential, it's all captivating.

But then back to the rest of your post, it's very disheartening that upon realization after many hours of ecstatic research and theory crafting, that it will probably take months to start seeing real, impressive results.

Here is another reason new players don't get into this game:

https://zkillboard.com/character/91427239/page/1/

All this "Ace" does is kill and pod new players in the start region despite been a ban offense from what I understand. What does CCP do? Nothing. Oh, wait, they do something, write some EULA they don't follow.

One player kills dozens of new players, oh well, they are new players so it's not our problem

34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.

Starter Systems

Amarr
Chaven
Sehmy
Emrayur
Caldari
Kisogo
Todaki
Amsen
Gallente
Duripant
Bourynes
Cistuvaert
Minmatar
Ammold
Ryddinjorn
Hulm




Career Agent systems

Amarr
Deepari
Pasha
Conoban
Caldari
Uitra
Jouvulen
Akiainavas
Gallente
Couster
Clellinon
Trossere
Minmatar
Hadaugago
Malukker
Embod




Sisters of EVE Epic Arc

Agent Systems
Arnon

Here is another reason new players don't get into this game:

https://zkillboard.com/character/91427239/page/1/

All this "Ace" does is kill and pod new players in the start region despite been a ban offense from what I understand. What does CCP do? Nothing. Oh, wait, they do something, write some EULA they don't follow.

One player kills dozens of new players, oh well, they are new players so it's not our problem

Thats one sad dude man. If you check his KB, you'll see he does shoot at other ships in other systems. Guess he got scared of people shooting back.

I think we're getting trolled here about this skillpoint thing btw. There's no way people are this dense.

This sums it up. No matter how good the players are they can't do anything, they just have to spend a year docked in a starbase learning skills. This is probably the top fail of CCP.

Except Eve isn't chess. You don't get better at chess when you get older.

1. Once your skills get up to lvl 3-4, its like watching paint dry.
2. No catch up mechanism.
4. Unclear path or lack of path, to self sufficiency with ISK, and within most of the game systems.

Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion GÇö not that it is actually the case in the game.

Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?

Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?

Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?

Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?

Long. But in other MMOs you would not be able to raid the "hardcore endgame content" either within a few weeks. The exception is, that in EvE, there is sooo much to do while you are skilling up for your titan, while in other MMOs its mostly just a grind to "get to the top" fastest. Because you cannot participate in PvP or whatever without having reached the max level. In Eve there is barely anything you will NEED a titan for.

Besides, choosing the most extreme of all examples to prove your point is... interesting. Because in most areas (one on one pvp for example. That is usually not done in titans but rather in cruisers or the like) you will catch up really fast. At least skillwise. That you are going to loose anyway (probably) to an 5-year-old character has nothing to with him having 2 or 3 skills at level 5 more than you do.

Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

The bare minimum amount of time it would take for me to get into a Widow is 106 days. And that's to be able to sit in it and not effectively use it. To train up the required skills to pilot it effectively would take another 200 days. Granted you could fly it without all the other necessary skills, but it would be a huge liability considering your inefficient fittings and related skills.

So how much time can a new player expect to spend if his ultimate goal is to fly a titan to it's maximum potential?

Who gives a flying **** about a widow? Impatient people with a poor understanding of the game flying expensive ships are ALWAYS a liability, regardless of the number of SP they may have.

Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?

So how much time can a new player expect to spend if his ultimate goal is to fly a titan to it's maximum potential?

So basically, wait?

New people should sign up to EVE and then wait. Wait a long time...

Define GÇ£maximum potentialGÇ¥. Are we talking about all conceivable fits or only all sane and sensible fits? Also, what does it have to do with GÇ£catching upGÇ¥?

Like, if you're going to fly the most expensive ship in the game, you're going to make sure you have all the skills necessary to be able to completely maximize it for whatever you need it for.

What ? So, suddenly size matters ?

Oh, no, it's not their failure they made a game/manage this game is such a way that it fails to attract new players.

But then again maybe I should listen to the 5-6 year old players, the game will be cool by the time the calendar shows 2020.

Like, if you're going to fly the most expensive ship in the game, you're going to make sure you have all the skills necessary to be able to completely maximize it for whatever you need it for.

MAXIMUM.

Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?

I have a better question. If u had a Titan today that you could fly to its maximum potential what would you do with it? Solo as well?

Personally I don't want a titan. At least right now. I have no clue what I would do with it. I would probably put a bunch of mining lasers on it and tank rats in 0.0 while afk 23 hours a day sleeping.

On an unrelated note, I spoke with an ISD about the potential time it would take to maximize a titan.

New Players: It will take you 4-5 years of training if you wish to fly a titan.

I think the fact that you don t know how long it will take or can't even answer the question what if u had one right now is the exact reason why CCP has training the way it is. So you can crawl before you walk and have appreciation for ships or skills when you finally get them instead of the average MMO month grind to reach end game content.

On an unrelated note, I spoke with an ISD about the potential time it would take to maximize a titan.

New Players: It will take you 4-5 years of training if you wish to fly a titan.

Still, to me, 4-5 years is entirely too long to reach the maximum of the best ship in game.

[quote=Tysun Kane]



Still, to me, 4-5 years is entirely too long to reach the maximum of the best ship in game. That's just my opinion though. Luckily for us, I'm not trying to get a titan so that's not effecting my decision to play or quit.

I asked an EVE ISD how long it would take and he said 4-5 years. If you're saying I need more training time because an ISD doesn't know himself between 4-5 years, I think you're trying to hard to push into me.

Also, I said I don't want a titan. I've heard they're like prisons. Once you're in, you're in for good. I do not want that. I want choices and I don't wish to have any alts at this time. Only one character, my main, this one.

Still, to me, 4-5 years is entirely too long to reach the maximum of the best ship in game. That's just my opinion though. Luckily for us, I'm not trying to get a titan so that's not effecting my decision to play or quit.

But still, letting all the new players who read this thread know that to reach the best ship at maximum is a minimum of 4 years time investment, well I just think it's good to have the information out there for people to know.

Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

The bare minimum amount of time it would take for me to get into a Widow is 106 days. And that's to be able to sit in it and not effectively use it. To train up the required skills to pilot it effectively would take another 200 days. Granted you could fly it without all the other necessary skills, but it would be a huge liability considering your inefficient fittings and related skills.

Why would you ask your friends to waste a year?

Why do you want to fly a widow? Seems a waste unless you're already in a large group that can do blops roams. Eve training times prohibiting play is the biggest falsehood in the mmo industry. Even wow has a larger barrier of entry in terms of time commitment.

Titans are far from the best ships in eve(there are no best ships think of ships more like rock paper scissors, got to use the right one at the right time), they are tools against other big ships and can transport fleets from one place to another basically. You wouldn't go do anything in a Titan alone, they are only used with fleets so you wouldn't ever train to be in one on your main character.

You are extremely underestimating small ships, I did this too and I'm sure many others and only started flying frigates again a few months back. Within a year of playing you can be fully effective solo in faction warfare for example, winning fights and destroying ships of players who have been playing for longer than 5 years. The older character with lots of skill points will have the majority of their skill points in skills that are not relevant to the fight you will have with them.

People who think they need time to catch up don't understand EVE fully in my opinion, you can create a focused scanner guy right now and be more efficient in scanning than most pilots within just a few months.

I don't want to fly a widow. Someone might. I picked a widow arbitrarily. It's a place holder symbolizing a ship that one might wish to fly that would take time to be able to access.

The titan was just to get an estimate on time to reach the most individually powerful ship in eve.

Which no one's answered yet.

Underestimating small ships. Wrong. I've flown in a frigate and been destroyed in 1 second by someone else. Maybe if you want to count target acquisition time, then it's still less than 10 seconds. 1 salvo = obliterated

Underestimating small ships. Wrong. I've flown in a frigate and been destroyed in 1 second by someone else. Maybe if you want to count target acquisition time, then it's still less than 10 seconds. 1 salvo = obliterated

Underestimating small ships. Wrong. I've flown in a frigate and been destroyed in 1 second by someone else. Maybe if you want to count target acquisition time, then it's still less than 10 seconds. 1 salvo = obliterated

Oh, no, it's not their failure they made a game/manage this game is such a way that it fails to attract new players. But then again maybe I should listen to the 5-6 year old players, the game will be cool by the time the calendar shows 2020.

I don't want to fly a widow. Someone might. I picked a widow arbitrarily. It's a place holder symbolizing a ship that one might wish to fly that would take time to be able to access. Swap widow for any other T2 battleship you feel is more appropriate.

Trust me, I am right.

If you keep playing you will understand all this by training, not player training and putting things into skill que online but mentally understanding the game, it's such a common mistake.

Here is some frigate PVP to show you anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZIIp342qIY you can fly like this within months.

To sit in a titan you only need the prereqs and the titan skillbook, which takes 193 days without implants and costs around 6b in skillbooks. To fly it with maxed out focused skills around 2 years, not sure where that ISD got 4 years from.

You heard it here first, folks. A tristan is a t1 frigate. Within MONTHS you'll be able to fly a t1 frigate around and start seeing results! Never mind it's a tier just above the rookie ship!

You heard it here first, folks. A tristan is a t1 frigate. Within MONTHS you'll be able to fly a t1 frigate around and start seeing results! Never mind it's a tier just above the rookie ship!

I asked an EVE ISD how long it would take and he said 4-5 years. If you're saying I need more training time because an ISD doesn't know himself between 4-5 years, I think you're trying to hard to push into me.

Still, to me, 4-5 years is entirely too long to reach the maximum of the best ship in game. That's just my opinion though. Luckily for us, I'm not trying to get a titan so that's not effecting my decision to play or quit.

But still, letting all the new players who read this thread know that to reach the best ship at maximum is a minimum of 4 years time investment, well I just think it's good to have the information out there for people to know.

Titans are not the best ships in Eve, they have clear purpose just like any other ship class has.

if you wish to speak with me about ship fittings, please send me an email.

I really really hope you're smarter than you're leading me to believe.

Probably the same place I did: stuff every conceivable skill that affects a Titan and any (non-stupid) piece of equipment it can fit into EVEMon and ratchet all of them up to V.

Of course, at that point, it's nowhere near what you'd call a GǣfocusedGǥ character, but he did ask for a MAXED one, after allGǪ

If you start playing EVE, see this awesome expensive skillpoint-intensive ship and tell yourself you're going to gear your entire EVE experience around eventually flying this ship, you've already put yourself off to a bad start. That is absolutely not how you want to approach the game if you want any sort of longevity out of it.

You heard it here first, folks. A tristan is a t1 frigate. Within MONTHS you'll be able to fly a t1 frigate around and start seeing results! Never mind it's a tier just above the rookie ship!

As a relatively new player (7 months) I'll venture some guesses.

Sure, some people are going to get frustrated they can't get into capitals or strategic cruisers right away. There's not that much to do about these folks, as instant gratification is not-nor should it be-a feature of Eve

But Eve's intimidating learning curve rewards those who have the patience to stick it out past those first few months when you don't know what the heck is going on, when you start to figure out for yourself how fitting really works, how meta levels work, and a million other things. The slow skill grind is actually a blessing in disguise, I think, as you are forced to fly in frigates and destroyers for at least a little while. You learn how all the basics work, and that's rewarding.

And the importance of a good corp cannot be overstated. It is crucial. If new players don't find a good group of people to fly with, they are going to tire quickly of Eve's PvE content, which is pretty dull and repetitive.

I really don't think it's a matter of intelligence (although we like to congratulate ourselves that it is) but rather of an ability to delay gratification and the good fortune of connecting with like-minded people. Even flying a T1 frigate with no skills can be loads of fun if you're in a good group.

So, the Thread de-generates into a discussion of the viability of Frigs and Cruisers.

Not exactly about being "afraid" of EVE and why anymore is it ???????

Just mechanics bickering, as per usual. Congratz.

Actually, I believe that is one of the main mis conceptions for new players and why they are afraid of EVE, they don't want to be stuck in small ships when in reality it may be exactly what may be more fun when you realise how slow big ships are, expensive to lose and in general hard to fly well when you're still struggling to understand the basic mechanics surrounding EVE.

ability to delay gratification

Actually, I believe that is one of the main mis conceptions for new players and why they are afraid of EVE, they don't want to be stuck in small ships when in reality it may be exactly what may be more fun when you realise how slow big ships are, expensive to lose and in general hard to fly well when you're still struggling to understand the basic mechanics surrounding EVE.

You heard it here first, folks. A tristan is a t1 frigate. Within MONTHS you'll be able to fly a t1 frigate around and start seeing results! Never mind it's a tier just above the rookie ship!

You really should try some other game because with your attitude EvE is definitely not for you.

I am a member of Brave Newbies Inc. We are a corporation founded a year ago with the goal to let new players dive head first into this game with the sole reason to have fun!
We have one day old members flying in frigates in our fleets destroying T2 and T3 cruisers and even capitals. They get blown up a lot ... just like experienced players do ... and always come back for more.

You on the other hand sound worse than the bitterest of bittervets I have had the pleasure of encountering in these topics. Perhaps you should join a newbie friendly corp like Red vs Blue or EvE uni, or BNI and learn how to have fun instead of whining about your incompetence to understand the basic premise of a sandbox game.

You really should try some other game because with your attitude EvE is definitely not for you.

I am a member of Brave Newbies Inc. We are a corporation founded a year ago with the goal to let new players dive head first into this game with the sole reason to have fun!
We have one day old members flying in frigates in our fleets destroying T2 and T3 cruisers and even capitals. They get blown up a lot ... just like experienced players do ... and always come back for more.

You on the other hand sound worse than the bitterest of bittervets I have had the pleasure of encountering in these topics. Perhaps you should join a newbie friendly corp like Red vs Blue or EvE uni, or BNI and learn how to have fun instead of whining about your incompetence to understand the basic premise of a sandbox game.

BOOO!

So I was talking to some friends tonight that I used to play another "mmo" with. My question was, "why don't you play EvE?". They're still on the same ****** game for years. No development, no interesting changes, diminishing player-base.

These people have the potential to be "great" EvE players. They can find and exploit new features pretty effectively, use abstract tactics, and are willing to win at all costs. Also they like the "politics" aspect of gaming, and the meta-game.

Is it a fear of the learning cliff? Would they rather stay in the baby sandbox and "win" over taking a chance in the "big pond"?

Has anyone else had the same experience with their gaming "friends"?

I am a member of Brave Newbies Inc. We are a corporation founded a year ago with the goal to let new players dive head first into this game with the sole reason to have fun!
We have one day old members flying in frigates in our fleets destroying T2 and T3 cruisers and even capitals. They get blown up a lot ... just like experienced players do ... and always come back for more.

Has anyone else had the same experience with their gaming "friends"?

Actually, I believe that is one of the main mis conceptions for new players and why they are afraid of EVE, they don't want to be stuck in small ships when in reality it may be exactly what may be more fun when you realise how slow big ships are, expensive to lose and in general hard to fly well when you're still struggling to understand the basic mechanics surrounding EVE.

This suggestion was already made to him, multiple times. He continues to ignore it and spew vitriol and judge everyone that does not validate his pity parade.

The people I know who won't play usually state it's because of human nature, essentially.

EVE Online is a sandbox MMO that is primarily about the freedom it gives to it's players. The problem is: When you give human beings this level of freedom, they generally misuse it since we are a pathetic species as a whole.

We have rules in our society for a reason and it's because we are horribly flawed creatures that need these regulations to keep us in check.

In many ways the EVE universe represents the truly repulsive nature of humanity. That alone is enough to turn many people away from playing.

Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

The bare minimum amount of time it would take for me to get into a Widow is 106 days. And that's to be able to sit in it and not effectively use it. To train up the required skills to pilot it effectively would take another 200 days. Granted you could fly it without all the other necessary skills, but it would be a huge liability considering your inefficient fittings and related skills.

Why would you ask your friends to waste a year?

What makes you think they would be TRYING or even ASKED to train straight for a blops?

I can tell you haven't read the thread.

I can tell you haven't read the thread. I'll allow you the opportunity to catch up.

Yea I guess that's true. As of right now the initial entrance fee into EVE is like what? $10? $15? There are still alot of games out there that costs $45, $50, $60, even $70. Paying in between those prices for the most developed character along the path they wish to pursue would not be a bad investment.

And who the hell likes to fly battleships anyway? I sure don't...

And that is how it has been for EVERYONE else in this game who has been playing longer than you. Everyone else had to go through the same stuff you have to go through right now.

Isn't that a fair approach? We all have to go through the same crap to get to the goodies.

Would you like a cash shop? Where you can buy SP for real money?
Would that be fair?

Buying a main character is a really stupid investment. It's like paying to win the game without playing it. It's not a game any more then is it?
And who the hell likes to fly battleships anyway? I sure don't. I don't understand the Widow fixation.

When I started out there was so much to learn about the game I didn't _really_ mind having to skill (and that meant some learning skills too). Now it's really easy and fast to get into anything with frigs and cruisers buffed so much.

First off, I would like to say thanks for making a post in this thread on this topic explaining an issue you've directly encountered with potential new players to the EVE Online universe.

I agree with the majority of your post.

Not to pick on you, but I'd like to use what I quoted, your #6 to express my own opinion on that subject.

That's actually one of the aspects of this game I like. It's alot to learn. I enjoy learning. It gives me another interesting thing to think about. All of the different possibilities, the potential, it's all captivating.

But then back to the rest of your post, it's very disheartening that upon realization after many hours of ecstatic research and theory crafting, that it will probably take months to start seeing real, impressive results.

Someone suggested it to me as an option, I was simply agreeing that yes it is an option.

A pisspoor option, a character with 100M SP in the hands of a newb will be useless, because the newb has no clue whatsoever about how to use it to its best potential, primarily because they haven't learnt anything about the game and went the pay to win route, only to discover that in Eve pay to win is actually pay to lose.

And who the hell likes to fly battleships anyway?

Yea well, too bad for you because it's not my intention to quit.

#dealwithit

I guess all those battleships I see flying around are piloted by NPCs

lol ... and I would care if you live or die because????

or carebears...which might as well be NPCs.

They just shouldn't be carebears.

Well at least we're on the same page regarding each other.

They just shouldn't be carebears.

BOOO!

So I was talking to some friends tonight that I used to play another "mmo" with. My question was, "why don't you play EvE?". They're still on the same ****** game for years. No development, no interesting changes, diminishing player-base.

These people have the potential to be "great" EvE players. They can find and exploit new features pretty effectively, use abstract tactics, and are willing to win at all costs. Also they like the "politics" aspect of gaming, and the meta-game.

Is it a fear of the learning cliff? Would they rather stay in the baby sandbox and "win" over taking a chance in the "big pond"?

Has anyone else had the same experience with their gaming "friends"?

Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

The bare minimum amount of time it would take for me to get into a Widow is 106 days. And that's to be able to sit in it and not effectively use it. To train up the required skills to pilot it effectively would take another 200 days. Granted you could fly it without all the other necessary skills, but it would be a huge liability considering your inefficient fittings and related skills.

Why would you ask your friends to waste a year?

So basically, wait?

New people should sign up to EVE and then wait. Wait a long time.

Yea that sounds fine. Lets try advertising the game like that:

Look at these awesome space ships! Fly battle ships! Fly Carriers! Fly TITANS!!!!!!!!! After a long wait. Yes, we want YOU to sign up for EVE today and wait a year so you too can fly those awesome amazing super cool ships!

Join EVE now and begin WAITING today!

SIGN ME UP

'
Because its so freakin dark! Wheres my teddy I need it for protection from the boogie man.

If a loss of a few most hardcore obsessed vets means the game gets better and larger and more people enjoy it and have fun, then why not ? CCP is a business and needs to make money, more enjoyable game = more players = more money

What's a carebear ?? I've never met one in 4 years. I see mission runners, miners, ice miners, mining bots, PI producers, market haulers, blah blah blah, happily gong about their business. But I've yet to encounter a "carebear", whatever that is.

1. Once your skills get up to lvl 3-4, its like watching paint dry. There is nothing exciting about the progression itself.

2. No catch up mechanism. Especially in PvP. From what we see a player that will stay in this game for few months vs player that has been here for x years has absolute zero chance of success, unless the latter goes AFK, does something real stupid, or the new player gets extremely lucky. It takes too many years to catch up.

3. There is nothing "cute" here. Literally. There is nothing here to catch the girls eyes (your girls may vary but mine do not).

4. Unclear path or lack of path, to self sufficiency with ISK, and within most of the game systems. Running low level rat missions does not provide anywhere near enough ISK necessary to PvP and ship replacement at the necessary pace. It takes 3-4 days of gaming for 1 day of PvP.

5. Gathering is too boring. Trying to get your own mats for manufacturing is boring to tears, yet you cant AFK cause of rats or other players. So...... back to the unprofitable missions ...

6. Too much external crap necessary to play the game. encyclopedias, API keys, apps like EFT. All this stuff needs to get canned. Everyone should be spending their time playing the game not looking stuff up on encyclopedias about it for the most part. It should all be self explanatory from within.

If a loss of a few most hardcore obsessed vets means the game gets better and larger and more people enjoy it and have fun, then why not ? CCP is a business and needs to make money, more enjoyable game = more players = more money

No, you can fly it within hours. You can fly it perfectly within a couple months.

And within those couple of months you'll have many of the skills needed to fly every other ship in the game well.

When you're the top dog in another game joining a new one and being a scrub isn't that appealing- especially in a game like EVE where play time is really important.

No, you can fly it within hours. You can fly it perfectly within a couple months.

And within those couple of months you'll have many of the skills needed to fly every other ship in the game well.

I think the biggest detractor is that CCP doesn't actively engage in promoting the things newer players can do, and generally leave it up to word of mouth. Unfortunately word of mouth from gaming sites tend to hammer on the negatives of being a new person. The learning curve is steep, its hard to make isk, training times can take up to a month. It doesn't help that the tutorial doesn't really provide direction to people, it essentially shows them a few things then leaves them sitting in the rookie system wondering what do I do now. The "level cap" games are very structured and essentially guide you by the hand in terms of where to go next and what you could be doing.

I can't remember where I saw it (TMC perhaps, but it feels older than that) but someone once wrote a GÇ£EVE for WoW playersGÇ¥ kind of blog: explaining EVE in terms of a more familiar game and taking special care to point out where, how, and why they could not be compared. Maybe that's something that could be done more formally and integrated into either the NPE or the promotional material.

I remember reading an article of this nature but can't recall when or where. But the problem I had with it then and still do is that, while I agree they can not be compared, they are going to be compared. EVE is an MMO and it is going to be compared to other MMO's even if its actual operation is far removed from the traditional MMO.

Sure, but that's also why it's needed: as a source to reference when explaining where the comparison breaks down. Leveraging existing terminology as a kind of transition and teaching tool is helpful (and unavoidable), but it also needs to not lead the understanding down the wrong path.

For instance, and as discussed earlier, the XP = SP comparison is intuitive and easy to make, but it is also leads to the hierarchical thinking and GÇ£bigger is betterGÇ¥ fallacy. Being able to break down that notion even before people get into the game would go a long way to get rid of some of the misconceptions about what new players can and can't do.

You heard it here first, folks. A tristan is a t1 frigate. Within MONTHS you'll be able to fly a t1 frigate around and start seeing results! Never mind it's a tier just above the rookie ship!

Well i've been playing for maybe around 2 months online, with a 10 month break between those 2 months. I have a little over 3 mill SP and i'm currently flying a Domi BS doin lvl 4's without any serious problems. I've also been able to tank damage from my Corp mates in their t2's and fully fitted marauders for a short time. My skills are not perfect and i can't fly the domi to it's full potential but I fly it good enough. Sure it will take me some time to fly it perfectly but in the meantime i'm having lots of fun with my Corp mates. And that's only with 2 months of total active playtime. It's all about how u plan your skill training. And as a sidenote; i started my first week flying caldari ships

BOOO!

So I was talking to some friends tonight that I used to play another "mmo" with. My question was, "why don't you play EvE?". They're still on the same ****** game for years. No development, no interesting changes, diminishing player-base.

These people have the potential to be "great" EvE players. They can find and exploit new features pretty effectively, use abstract tactics, and are willing to win at all costs. Also they like the "politics" aspect of gaming, and the meta-game.

Is it a fear of the learning cliff? Would they rather stay in the baby sandbox and "win" over taking a chance in the "big pond"?

Has anyone else had the same experience with their gaming "friends"?

That's great you are having lots of fun. Eve really is about teamwork and team play.

However, I can tell by your SP level and amount playing that in a 1v1 matchup with a decent frigate, destroyer, cruiser, BC, or BS pilot, you will get smoked. Why? Because you trained to fly ships but you haven't trained to fly any ships well at this point. You also have zero kills on your killboard and seven losses. And you do silly things like put a prototype cloaking device on an Astero. I know it's really cool to fly a shiny ship, but if you can't fit it properly, don't fly it, especially where it has a chance of being blown up.

And this is the whole SP conundrum. Do skillpoints matter with regards to PvP? Of course they do. The Tristan I am able to fly now is literally double the Tristan I could fly 4 months ago, and that's all due to skillpoints. I could give the Tristan I can fly now to Hadrian B of 4 months ago and he could give me his, and I bet I'd lose.

But as I mentioned, Eve is all about teamwork. This is where you can mitigate and make SP null and void. The best Tengu pilot in the world couldn't fend off 20 guys in T1 frigates that have been playing for a couple weeks. In Eve, numbers are the great equalizer.

So it all boils down to, are you a fairly new player? Do you want to go do some PvP? Great! Do you have friends? No? Then get ready to get podded. Because the majority of the people who solo PvP are good enough they don't need help. Just think about that.


P.S. I have been playing for 6 months now. You can go look at my killboard, it's not pretty - but that's the point.

Part of me wants Eve to have some near-instant gratification too so my friends would give it a shot. But I'm too afraid it would tarnish the game we all came to love because it is so consistently unrewarding, and enjoyment is wholly dependent on community. My IRL friends don't play Eve, but some play World of Tanks and the Star Wars MMO. I think it's about a difference in perception of reward, as I don't get a sense of accomplishment from those games at all.