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Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.20 01:03:00 -
[1]
Quote: "Regrettably, this incident is a direct result of misunderstanding due to communication from Aralis. Despite a request for specific systems and constellations, the only information ISS received from Aralis on the CVA planned future expansion was the area 'heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10.'
By placing POS in 3KB-10//Q-6LGI we have honoured Aralis and CVA's initial request and chosen POS Placements and access routes that do not include the area 'heading east out of f-yh5b and 3kb-10'.
A question for the Count. You state first you understood the CVA was expanding out TO 3kb-10. Yet afterwards you state you placed your POS's in 3kb-10 as an OUT OF.
If the CVA indicated they were expanding out TO 3kb-10 doesn't the word TO imply within that system as well?
I don't know about you but the word TO implies just that.
You're splitting hairs claiming this is a matter of semantics. CVA told ISS they were expanding out TO 3kb-10 and ISS went ahead and dropped POS's there anyway.
It seems pretty clear this was an attempt to instigate a war. The CVA has peacefully kept the spacelanes in Providence clear for over a year. Now the ISS comes in (after calling it a renegade land in your IPO) and takes advantage of the CVA's hard work by plopping POS's and an Outpost in the region.
If ISS truly intended to tame a renegade region of space would they not have chosen an area that was NOT already under the protection of an honorable alliance, that was already open to all, that was already the home of an outpost and POS's and already routinely patrolled?
Of course they would've.
But instead ISS picked the system the CVA said they were expanding out TO and dropped four POS's there.
Seems pretty clear what happend to me.
Archbishop
These comments are my own and in no way represent those of my corporation or alliance
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.20 01:13:00 -
[2]
Studying an ancient text dictionary (Websters Online) I've found reference to the word TO along with a definition.
Quote:
3 entries found for to.
Main Entry: 1to Pronunciation: t&, tu, 'tn Function: preposition Etymology: Middle English, from Old English tO; akin to Old High German zuo to, Latin donec as long as, until 1 a -- used as a function word to indicate movement or an action or condition suggestive of movement toward a place, person, or thing reached <drove to the city> <went back to the original idea> b -- used as a function word to indicate direction <a mile to the south> <turned his back to the door> <a tendency to silliness> c -- used as a function word to indicate contact or proximity <applied polish to the table> <put her hand to her heart> d (1) -- used as a function word to indicate the place or point that is the far limit <100 miles to the nearest town> (2) -- used as a function word to indicate the limit of extent <stripped to the waist> e -- used as a function word to indicate relative position <perpendicular to the floor>
I'll point out the first one.
.. or a thing reached....
.... used as a function word to indicate contact or proximity ......
.... used as a function word to indicate the place or point that is the far limit .....
.... used as a functin word to indicate the limit of extent ......
It sure appears the word TO indicates a point the CVA planned to expand TO. Otherwise they'd have said "were going to expand just short of xxxxx" or "were going to expand to near xxxxx". No they said TO that system.
It appears ISS has made a mistake. The honorable thing to do would be to admit they misunderstood what the CVA was saying and move the conflicted POS's.
Archbishop
These views are my own and are not representative of my corporation or alliance
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.20 13:07:00 -
[3]
The facts are simple. ISS contacted CVA in apparent good faith back in February and inquired as to the CVAs boundries. The CVA told them "we're expanding TO this point".
ISS apparently has misunderstood what the word TO means. It means TO there. (I posted a websters online definition back on page 5 of this thread).
Clearly ISS has misunderstood what TO means. As ISS is a large entity and not totally cohesive or organized with its member corps I have to believe this was a simple error and that the ISS will remove the POS stations in the space the CVA planned to expand TO.
I'm sorry but arguments about semantics (TO) or about CVA being "unrealistic for expanding" are a moot point. The facts are clear.
ISS initially refused to remove the POSs leaving CVA no choice but to declare war. Some have suggested CVA should capitulate and "move the boundry one system". To those people I ask "would you?". Would you basically allow yourself to be bullied and move your boundry? And what would you do the NEXT time it happend? Because rest assured it would happen again.
The CVA has my respect as an Amarrian loyalist and Priest. They fight for God and Empire and hope to one day see our Empire, already covering over 40% of the safe space, expand even more. Their motivations have never been in question.
They have brought safety and stability and commerce to a once lawless land in the name of the Amarrian Empire. Some would allege their motivations have changed recently but I'll remind those people just a few weeks ago CVA Dreadnaughts helped take down a terrorist training camp nearby. This isn't the action of non-loyalists rather those who are most zealous in their faith to God and Empire.
I do not speak for PIE Incorporated on this issue at this time. My views are my own. I know from talking to Aralis extensively privately that the CVA is in the right here. The facts are clear and simple to understand.
I also know the ISS (better then you could imagine). I have to believe this is merely a mistake in understanding what the word TO means (or something). The ISS would not lose face by admitting it was a misunderstanding and removing the contested POSs. It would show honor and humility in admitting an error was made and the respect many of us have (or had) for the ISS would return even moreso.
I will pray for a peaceful resolution to this stalemate. I pray that God helps the ISS find the way to repair what has happend. I pray God helps the CVA continue to uphold the fight for right they have started in Providence well over a year ago.
And I pray for those who have fallen from grace and worship now the evil isk above all else. There is a way back to salvation and I am here to hear your confessions if needed.
May God help us all.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.21 04:49:00 -
[4]
As even the ISSN representative admits it was probably a mistake I would suggest respectfully that the prudent course of action would be to remove the disputed POS stations immediately.
I have no doubt that ISS originally acted with honor. I am one to believe this was an honest mistake. As an ISS shareholder I guess I'm also disturbed that rather then hold to the charter which states the ISS will respect the neutrality and claims of the "host" alliance they instead forced a confrontation. As someone who invests in nearly a dozen Eve entities and funnels the money to SPCS charities it would pain me to see something as honest as this mistake lead to more bloodshed and destruction.
The destruction of a passing ship was unfortunate but hardly unforseeable. The CVA had issued an ultimatum, the ISS had ignored it and refused to honor an agreement made in February. The CVA then declared war as its only option. War was forced on them and they responded. Rather then be intimidated or forced to capitulate and give up territory ISS had agreed to months ago they stood their ground.
Demanding compensation is inappropriate given the facts in the case. The ship destroyed was a casualty of war. Hauler or Battleship it did not matter as the CVA had made clear what would happen to ISS ships caught in its territory. The fact this pilot "didnt know" about the conflict indicates a lack of internal communication amongst the ISS membership and does not reflect badly on those who defended their homes in Providence.
I also read the reply by Omber Zombie and was very impressed. He speaks with clarity and substance and recommends resolution of this unfortunate chain of events. I would hope the CVA would agree to a ceasefire and would probably even help move the POS stations from their territory.
Perhaps with Gods help something can be learned from this situation. Perhaps with the removal of the POS stations ISS can turn the page on the mistrust brought here and reveal themselves to be truly wise and honest. Likewise the CVA could with the POS removal stand down from war alert and once again work to secure Providence from those who would destroy the Empire and free trade.
I believe in what ISS has done in the past and I commend their efforts to tame the vast lawlessness that is 0.0 space. As a shareholder in ISS I support them in their efforts and have cheered their many successes. But this time an unfortunate mistake was made. Time to fix it and move on. Move beyond the boundry agreed upon by both CVA and ISS in February and build a true friendship with the current residents of Providence.
The tension and anger here today need not be here tomorrow. Tomorrow a new day could dawn and a true friendship based on mutual respect could emerge. Some of the greatest alliances and friendships in the universe are forged by initial turmoil. This could be one of those great instances where brought to the brink of war both sides stand proudly at the end and look out over all they have accomplished.
I pray to God that peace is preserved.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.21 05:04:00 -
[5]
The course to war was set with the word NO. When asked to remove the POS stations that single word led to this. It wasnt the mistake itself I agree with you. It was the refusal to rectify the situation. That single word was the first "shot" if you will. What else is there?
Negotiation? An agreement recognized by all was broken. A horrible mistake was made.
Still there is hope now. Now it seems to be understood a mistake was made. Now is the time to remove the POS stations and fix a terrible chain of events.
I'm sure everyone will pray for peace and resolution. I look forward to a new day tomorrow and the hope that this conflict will end and the mistrust forged here will be broken in the spirit of peace.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 00:39:00 -
[6]
Quote: "So you accept the other points then, namely:
1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future 2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim 3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause 4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL 5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright"
For those like Mr. Trouble who are obviously lacking the ability to understand a simple situation I'll spell it out for you clearly.
#1. It makes no difference that CVA didn't have soverignty there and only planned to move there. Why? Because there was an AGREEMENT made between the CVA and ISS as to the future boundries. The dispute is over ISS breaking the agreement not the system itself.
Clear?
#2. They declared war after ISS broke the agreement and said NO they wouldn't move the stations. As the agreement was recognized by ISS the day before (when they did move some stations) its clear ISS recognized and ACCEPTED the agreement. Suddenly they break it. That is why the CVA declared war.
Clear?
#3. The "threat" and "agression" was on the part of ISS. THEY are the ones who refused to honor the agreement THEY MADE in February. CVA gave them 24 hours to move the POSs and only declared war after ISS REFUSED to move them from a system THEY AGREED was CVA space back in February. As for "threat" I suggest you consider the MC being waved around as "threat" long before CVA declared war.
Clear?
#4. Personal conversations aside who cares. I don't care for several corporations and don't like their activities. From strip mining to macro mining there are alot of people I'll speak out against. I don't care for many corporations or their business tactics. Thats besides the point. What Aralis feels really doesn't matter as this isn't about that at all. This is about one thing and one thing only. ISS has BROKEN AN AGREEMENT they made with the CVA in good faith. They've even ADMITTED IT WAS A MISTAKE yet they still refuse to correct it and remove the POS stations.
Clear?
I personally could care less what a trolling alt has to say anyway. But just in case someone reads your trash and starts to believe it I thought I'd set the record straight.
Clear?
By the way oh uninteligent flaming one you should know the ISS actually AGREED to recognize the future CVA "plans". How is this proven? Well by the fact the ISS moved the other POSs when Aralis complained.
So clearly the ISS did in fact intend to honor the claim. Instead they made a mistake. Rather then correct it they postured and thus now risk the investment of many shareholders (myself included).
Clear?
Oh and as for the other flaming trolling alt who is to cowardly to post with a recognized personage (Chain Gang thats you). Just a quick word of advice. Flamming and trolling get you no where and eventually you're recognized as such. Try having a little courage and honor and posting as yourself rather then hiding behind a disguise. I personally suspect both you and Mr. Trouble aren't even part of the ISS or CVA. You're just flaming alts who like to stir things up.
Purely JUVENILE in other words.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 00:46:00 -
[7]
As for the other corpless, mindless, courageless pilots like Zooish (another of the above mentioned "mystery" posters) you said this.
Quote: "Aralis has stated in many logged conversations that he doesn't want ISS "anywhere" in Providence and he would find any reason to oppose it and declare war .."
Actually Aralis didn't say that. He said he preferred they not be in Providence. Perhaps you could point out where he said he'd "find any reason to declare war".
Or are you just a liar who adds things that weren't said?
I'm waiting?
Again, have some courage you coward. Hiding behind a mask earns you no credibility. Your a professional flamer and nothing more.
Nothing is in dispute here.
CVA said they were going TO that system. The websters dictionary is pretty clear about the definition of the word TO (that being a destination or final location).
Its also clear the ISS did in fact recognize the claim to future expansion by the fact they actually did move POSs the day before. If they didn't recognize the planned expansion why would they do this?
I'm waiting?????
Oh and one more thing. The war declaration was only after ISS refused (officially) to move the POS from CVA space. In other words it was the only option available on the table after ISS refused to live up to the agreement they recognzied in February.
Its all really simple actually. ISS has violated their charter in which they state they'll honor the boundries of the 0.0 "host" alliances. Instead they first claim the word "TO" is confusing, then claim "well CVA isnt that big anyway".
In other words they attempted to justify breaking an agreement. Thats what its all about.
CVA declaring war has nothing to do with this.
ISS broke the agreement. Plain and simple. Even the ISSN representative agreed it was a mistake.
So why don't you just fly away back to the noob system you came from and play with your Imparior or whatever it is you fly. Leave the serious stuff to the people who are courageous enough to actually post WHO THEY ARE not some pathetic little alt like yourselves.
Honestly. So juvenile and immature. Its amazing.
As for ISS. I hope you recognize you made a mistake and move the POS. Its that simple. When your own people are saying "it was a mistake" it should be obvious. Then again your own people are brave enough to post as who they are. Not as pathetic newbies we see here barely out of school.
Then again I've always considered ISS to be honorable and as a shareholder I'm also concerend what a four empire wide war against ISS assets and corporations (both member and non-member) over the next one to two years will have. What will happen to my dividends?
Do the right thing. Move the POS. Hell maybe make it a "buffer" zone between CVA and ISS and have both agree not to build there. But you did make the agreement. CVA did say they were going "TO" there. Its clear and cant be denied.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 04:16:00 -
[8]
You're missing a key point Lake. You state the ISS never had intended to stay out of the CVA systems. This is proven false. How? Because just prior to this ISS did in fact move some POS stations they had placed inside this zone. That proves they recognized this area as part of their agreement and understood they werent supposed to be there.
The other issue is the fact CVA indicated they'd go out TO 3kb-10. Now according to websters dictionary (and everything else) the word "TO" implies a destination, a final location where you end up, its pretty "clear".
I myself can accept that the ISS made an honest mistake. But the correct thing to do, to respect the agreement they made in good faith, would've been to move the 4 POS stations. This was long before "millions of tons" of materials (as you call it) was set for shipping and setup. In other words there was plenty of opportunity. The delay was caused by the refusal of ISS to abide by the agreement they made in February and affirmed a day earlier when in fact they DID move POS stations.
As for trade sure everyone likes a monopoly. But the CVA came right out and said "we plan to expand to here, keep the rest, have fun". They didn't try to force ISS out nor did they try to interfere with the new outposts. The only issue here is the agreement which ISS broke apparently by mistake then stubbornly refused to correct.
So no one is trying to stagnate development. In fact if ISS left the contested system and moved one jump away they'd be out of the area. They could setup there and there would be no issue.
Understand this. The only issue here is a broken agreement. Anything else is irrelevant in retrospect. If the agreement had been honored in the first place ISS would have no issue with the CVA and could happily setup their POS and Outposts without problem.
They made a choice not to do that.
As for soverignty you forget what I mentioned above. That the ISS did in fact RECOGNIZE this the day before when they moved the POS stations. Why would ISS do this if they didn't recognize it?
That in itself is proof enough.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 05:57:00 -
[9]
Quote: "You keep mentioning "The ISS" undertaking all sorts of actions and this is simply not how the ISS functions. Those four POSes were moved by their parent corporation in response to CVA; it was their choice, not Count's. The ISS is a federation of independent traders and the actions of one member corp have absolutely nothing to do with the construction of publicly owned outposts."
You claim the ISS isn't an alliance at all basically? Then perhaps you'd care to explain the MC presence and their contract with the ISS (which isn't representing these people as you claim)? If that was so wouldnt those four outposts be the property of one corp and if attacked not subject to ISS intervention?
The actions of your alliance and member corps has everything to do with your outposts. You can't just wash your hands of it and say "oh well thats not us" and expect a free pass.
Quote: "The precise misunderstanding about the word 'to' is not really that important. It's simply one detail from Count's post that people have glommed onto. Having read the relevant logs/evemails it's easy for me to see how there was a misunderstanding (regardless of its specifics) especially given the confusing nature of this particular section of map."
Well its one detail thats kind of a big one wouldn't you say? And if as several ISS people have said it was a mistake whats the prudent course? To remove them. To fix the mistake. Like the other ISS corp did correct?
Quote: "The 'supposition' that the CVA request for ISS to withdraw from 3KB-J0 came long before the project became more than just a couple of moon bases is simply not accurate. Also remember that the Sovereignty claim does not necessarily appear on the map the day the moon bases are deployed. They can be in place indefinitely before claiming and in fact require 'up to 5 days' (according to the control panel, and recent patch notes) for sovereignty to be demonstrated. It would be no surprise to me if the moon bases had been there for quite some time in preparation."
So youre saying ISS basically snuck in there, knowing that was the boundry, and put those up in the dead of night? Very interesting indeed and more revealing as to motive. Certainly ISS knew of the CVA claim to that system as where they'd expand "TO" (theres that word again).
Quote: "As for the supposition that ISS could move one jump away to resolve this whole matter: It is my understanding that ISS has already made this offer and it has been declined by CVA. Unless of course the jump to which you refer is the regional jump into Catch which is of course not in keeping with the Providence Project's requirements."
ISS never offered to move one jump. They offered to let the CVA move one jump (to another system they had planned already under the agreement).
Oh theres that "agreement" again. The thing that was broken, even if by mistake, thats now being ignored by everyone.
Quote: "And as for confirming the location of Outpost plans: I considered this matter carefully and at great length. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who might act against the construction plans is already very well aware of them based on information already present in this thread."
Well according to you the ISS is going ahead with this. Thats unfortunate as the CVA has already indicated their course. I still have hopes peace will rule the day.
Since the ISS has already indicated they're going to do this perhaps another meeting to establish boundries (in stone this time) where the CVA takes say 3-4 other systems in that area to make up for the disputed one?
That might be something both sides could live with? A war lasting years between the forces of Amarr and the ISS would be very costly to all in blood and money. It is something to avoid for all our sakes. After all we fight for God and Empire. In the end thats all there is.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 06:26:00 -
[10]
Well as you've apparently read the agreement (or misagreement) as it was relayed in February perhaps you'd be so kind as to cut and paste it here so we can all see what was misunderstood. All I've done is talk to people and I'd be very interested in reading the exact text and what was said (and not said). It would actually clear things up very easily for the ISS thus I see no problem with not posting it entirely. Do you?
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 13:32:00 -
[11]
Quote: "Archbishop: As far as I can tell you are mearly friends of CVA, and as such have no possible way of knowing the internals of what you are talking about. Let the leaders of the alliances sort this out."
Well I have spent about an hour talking to Aralis about it......... as myself.
And I've spent several hours on the ISS forums reading about it as well as talking to others there about it........ as someone else.
And I've spent time talking to others about it as a shareholder......... as someone else.
After all under this cloak you don't know who I really am anyway do you?
But as I've indicated before I fully support efforts at peaceful negotiation. I pray God gives us a way out of this debacle. As the ISS has apparently admitted it was a mistake (admitted several times here now) I can't imagine how THAT fact is overlooked.
Quote: "Ive tried... Instead ive been branded hereric...CVA leadership know the lenghtsts ive gone to..these matters of personal honour will be resolved in space at a apropiate time."
As for Golan Trevize...... I've not branded you a heretic. In fact the main objection to your comments revolve around your ascertation that the CVA has lost God and become a greed driven organization here:
Quote: "I have tried to mediate in this conflict but Sadly it seems the CVA has changed its objectives since i was its leader , no longer the CVA can be said to be a benevolent organization whos only intersted is to expand the holy Empire and bring prosperity to a wartorn and lawless region, CVA has turned into a organization like so many others , run by greed and the desire for profits , no longer it holds true to the ideals i and the CVA leadership agreed on when we cleared the region of pirates a long time ago."
THAT is the issue many loyal Amarrians.. myself included.. take offense to. The loyalty of the CVA has never been questioned. You yourself encouraged the move to Providence as I recall. Long term hopes include the desire to see the Empire expand in that direction further solidifying the hold our great civilization has on the universe.
It is that and that alone that so many found offensive. If you were to offer an apology for that comment I think you'd find feelings changed dramatically. I myself was very disappointed to read this as I know from both ends the efforts you are putting forth to resolve the crisis.
Quote: "Now i have the outmost respect for the golden fleet ..... ive led it for alsmost my entire career.... but belive me a war with ISS and the Mercenary coalition is the last thing you want...none would benefit from this and i fear the CVA fleet would take dire losses, i know you are brave and proud but please do not force our client into a corner and resort to violence. My capitalship fleet numbering more than 30 vessels is positioned to strike anywhere in Providence/Curse/Catch , our attention has so far been pointed at criminals and vermin installations, please do not force me to look at CVA Claimed space."
I quite honestly find this very ironic coming from a man who once led his Battleship crews on a regular basis into encounters where they were outnumbered 2-1, 3-1 or even 4-1. I recall an instance where you yourself once destroyed four enemy Battleships single handedly with your highly trained Apocalypse crew. Certainly you know better than anyone else the faith in God and Empire drives us far more than any fear of ship losses.
But I will pray for your success at mediation. Should your efforts be successful I myself will be apprecative for them.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.23 04:18:00 -
[12]
Quote: "Have you read the origional agreement? I have, and it is no way clear what the meaning was. Moreover, the CVA broke off negociations to attack."
Then post it and enlighten us all.
As for not being "claimed" perhaps you in your own speical anarchist way could explain why the ISS moved stations earlier in the week inside the boundry if they DIDNT understand the original agreement? If they didnt understand it and it wasnt clear wouldn't they have left those there as well?
Simple question. Answer?
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.23 04:26:00 -
[13]
Quote: "The CVA cannot realistically hope to stand against the forces the ISS can buy - it matters not your faith when you do not have the big guns to hold your own in lawless space - and I say once again that negociation is the better path. Or as a ancient book I once read stated you will find that "He who has sown the wind will reap the Whirlwind"."
The ISS doesn't only live in lawless space do they? And I'd wager from my exposure to them as an anonymous shareholder and forum lurker that 95% of their corporations are not combat oriented. This includes the ones who aren't in the alliance formally in game because they've been told they can "hide" this way. Those are all well known and in a long term war are all valid targets.
Certainly the CVA will take losses in a war I'm just wondering how much a 1 year contract for the MC costs and wondering if they can be everywhere all the time? If I was a member ISS corporation or even one hiding out of the formal alliance I'd be very afraid of retaliation. Certainly the MC would destroy CVA assets in Providence. What then?
Keep in mind I'm not asking this as an Amarrian but as an ISS shareholder. I'd like to be sure my investment in ISS outposts is secure and that the financial viability of ISS corps, which allows them to maintain POSs to maintain soverignty where they hold outposts, is stable.
The ISS says itself on its own website they're not focused on combat and instead hire people to fight for them. Thats fine from a combat point of view but as a stockholder I'm concerned the 95% of corporations not geared toward combat are going to be vulnerable in a long term war that would last months if not years. After all the religious zealotry of the Amarrians in CVA is well known. Fighting for God they are tenacious warriors. I know this from personal experience as a religious man myself. Nothing comes between the glory of God and Empire.
As for these 95% of ISS corporations the damages could be astronomical as they watch their ships being blasted out of the sky right and left. I shudder to think of the value of my stock plumetting as dozens of ISS corporations are attacked in a holy war. I'm genuinely afraid of the impact of such an event on the value of my stock portfolio. Wouldn't you be as well?
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:04:00 -
[14]
Quote: "Not content with CVA threatening and bullying ISS we now have PIE (Archbishop) threatening to extend this war to any and all civilian corps that they can link in any way to ISS. The true colours of the Amarrian race are finally being shown and perhaps now people will recognise the evil that is the Amarrian culture. "
Not at all but I'd expect no less than deception from a terrorist. First I've said clearly my concerns are as an ISS shareholder and are not the position or even questions of PIE or as an Amarrian. I'm an ISS shareholder and I have some concerns.
Quote: "So your saying "as well" that providence is only open to "True Amarrians" and all other races / corporations are not welcome ... this kinda sums up the CVA attitude.
Providence is only open for them .. and the rest is a smoke screen to hide their true greed."
Not at all Zooish. I'll point out that several other groups have POSs in Providence inside the CVA zone. Corporations committed to the enhancement of the region and are loyal to Amarr and the security and commerce the CVA have brought.
In fact this all revolves around one system. The CVA said they were going out TO 3kb-10 and everyone knows what "TO" means. The ISS recognzied this as proven by the fact they MOVED the POS stations the day before. So this isnt a matter of no agreement or not recognizing the claim. They DID recognize it as they did move those other POS stations.
As for the agreement I've seen ISS (and others like SF ) claim its vague and unclear. So post it and lets see. As we all know the evemail system doesn't have a "sent" folder where you can store the replies you send to people. Thus the agreement or recognition of it is in ISS hands. Why have they not published this then? Instead they claim its unclear while refusing to show anyone. Do they need time to forge a reply instead? It makes me very suspicious.
If the ISS hadn't moved those other POS's the day before I could even acccept why they're arguing there was no agreement or it was unclear. But the fact they moved them so quickly when CVA complained proves they did know about it and did recognize it.
Quote: "Archbishop, I am not one of the parties to the agreement and could not post it without the permission of both sides. However, the summary posted in this thread by the ISS is accurate. They took away an understanding which, while different from yours, they were quite sure about and saw no need to question."
Well if you can't post it I ask why you're here? Perhaps waiting until it is posted then speaking up when your point is proven would be a better alternative then jumping in where you have no stake in things and trying to stir the flames?
I'm concerned as an ISS shareholder. Certainly as my warship crews prepare to defend our Empire I'm concerned as an Admiral but as a man of God I have to believe He would not let this come to pass. I pray still for reconciliation and peace.
Quote: "There are allready border skirmishes hotting up. Every sign points to war. There is no WILL on the part of the goverments to back down. Your own alliances statements inflame the situation.
War is a failure of diplomacy. And diplomacy is failing all arround us. I agree it's not logical to war, but logic has very little to do with the conflict between states."
Again no one has answered my simple question. If the ISS did not recognize this as an agreement and didn't respect it why did they move the POS stations the day earlier? Using your arguments that it was vauge or not an agreement at all why didn't they then just say "no we're staying" then as well?
Why did they recognize it and respect it one day and not the next? Maybe the day they needed to call the MC? Or the day they needed to arm the new POSs even while they pretended to respect the agreement. They prepared for war while pretending peace.
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:08:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Archbishop on 23/04/2006 15:10:13
Quote: "And I note your threats to anyone who does business dealings with the ISS as you claim that they are "hiding from war". If you spread the war that generally, then you will draw in other factions who they are affiliated with (and you drastically underestimate the number of those)."
What threats? Im concerned as an ISS stockholder. I need to know as SPCS Director that the monthly dividends I receive to support SPCS shelters will continue to provide for our holy mission.
And I'm not talking about "business dealings". I'm talking about ISS members period. There are multiple groups that operate as full members of ISS in everything but corp membership registered with Concord officially. This method of hiding out of the formal alliance to limit themselves as a war target is well known to the entire universe. I merely fear for their safety as an ISS shareholder.
As for other "factions" affiliated with these corporations if they're not in an alliance which would those be? Perhaps you could provide a list and their real identities? Thats what your implying here after all is that some of these groups are really industrial "alt" corps for big bad alliance folks?
Maybe even the MC which would explain their contract?
Perhaps this to is a problem that needs to be addressed. Far to long have people been able to hide behind "alt" masks doing business as someone other then themselves. Perhaps its time to end that and bring them into the holy light of God and truth?
Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.23 15:16:00 -
[16]
It would seem the ISS has made a gesture of peace and reconciliation. Therefore in the interests of peace I am going to refrain from speaking anymore on this matter.
I will spend the day in prayer asking that God guide the leaders of ISS and CVA and bring to the table a recociliation both can live with.
I will also pray that after this conflict the CVA and ISS build a working relationsihp in Providence and that one day we may even see them work together to battle the evils of piracy and terrorism that still appear from time to time in Providence.
Archbishop prays
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