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WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll try to keep it short because English isn't my mother language.
To the point:
I've been playing EVE for almost 2 years and i'm quite happy with the game but there is a thing i still don't understand and i'm starting to get tired of it: the risk vs reward. Please don't get me wrong, i don't care how much money the people can make running incursions, L4s.. etc, but i think it would be a good idea to give us (the null sec little solo/small corp players) a bigger reward because we are taking more risks after all.
The thing is, i can make more money in high sec than in null 99% of the time. Sure, sometimes i get a Macha BPC and stuff like that but why aren't the bounties/mission rewards/LP payments much better? Running a L4 in Curse isn't like running a L4 in Lonetrek high sec.
I'm not asking for a high sec nerf because i respect all playstyles but if i want to make money in little time i have to go high sec and i don't like to do that because i like living in null. |

Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
551
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong 
Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now! |

WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Joshua Foiritain wrote:If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong 
I'm not part of a big alliance with dead end farming systems. I live with another 2 guys in null npc. I explore, run missions etc, but sometimes i can't because other lads are trying to hug my boat. If i see combat probes in space, i have to stop because if i don't warp away bad stuff will happen.
In high sec, i don't have to warp away never. It is mission after mission after mission.
|

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4936
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
WILLY TROPICAL wrote:I'll try to keep it short because English isn't my mother language.
To the point:
I've been playing EVE for almost 2 years and i'm quite happy with the game but there is a thing i still don't understand and i'm starting to get tired of it: the risk vs reward. Please don't get me wrong, i don't care how much money the people can make running incursions, L4s.. etc, but i think it would be a good idea to give us (the null sec little solo/small corp players) a bigger reward because we are taking more risks after all.
The thing is, i can make more money in high sec than in null 99% of the time. Sure, sometimes i get a Macha BPC and stuff like that but why aren't the bounties/mission rewards/LP payments much better? Running a L4 in Curse isn't like running a L4 in Lonetrek high sec.
I'm not asking for a high sec nerf because i respect all playstyles but if i want to make money in little time i have to go high sec and i don't like to do that because i like living in null.
Technically, the rewards are better. NPC null missions pay better and give access to pirate LP stores that have nice things in them. SOV null pve (exploration and anomalies) are cool because anoms give liquid isk (no converting LP) and you can get the highest lvl of complexes (such as DED 10/10s) out there. Low sec has lvl 5 mission agents, gnerally higher rewards for lvl 4 missions and faction warfare which can pay out obcene amounts of isk via the FW corp LP stores etc etc. Null and low incursions pay out better than high sec incursions.
What CCPs pve rewards scheme simply does not take into account the way it should is , well, people. The High sec stuff pays less than the equivilent low and null sec stuff, but the high sec stuff is protected by CONCORD and crime watch and other game mechanics like un-wardeccable npc corps, meaning that people who want to kill you while you are doing PVE in high sec have to jump through huge hoops that agressors in low and null do not.
In low and null, all an aggressor has to do is show up to kill you, in high sec an aggressor has to spend isk on kill rights or war decs or spend a ship (suicide gank) even if only a cheap one and then take a sec hit that has to be repaired some kind of way.
It all means that while the high sec pve nomilally pays less than everywhere else, if you don't fly a stupid blingy ship you can farm pve all day every day without being much bothered.
And the amounts of isk you can make are crazy. Why spend a whole bunch of time and effort in null making 15 billion isk per month (if you play EVE like it's a job) when you can spend the same time in high sec, make 8 or 9 bil in a 30 day span of time and still pay for 10 EVe accounts and have a some isk left over?
I know how you feel, I run high sec incursions and do sisters of eve and trust partners missions. I don't still go to my alliances ratting systems from time to time for a change up, but there are always neutrals about and I get interrupted a lot, which is fine because this is EVE but it makes it's where I think "why bother, i'll just go to high sec for what I need".
|

I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1042
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
WILLY TROPICAL wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong  I'm not part of a big alliance with dead end farming systems. I live with another 2 guys in null npc. I explore, run missions etc, but sometimes i can't because other lads are trying to hug my boat. If i see combat probes in space, i have to stop because if i don't warp away bad stuff will happen. In high sec, i don't have to warp away never. It is mission after mission after mission.
You do realize a lot of the high security missions hubs aren't so safe these days, right? I see people getting ganked all the time, even in ships that aren't all fancy without fancy modules. |

WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
The difference is that my Ishtar is enough reason to titan bridge on me, and the same Ishtar is ignored in high sec. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19722
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's largely because over the years, missions have received a number of blanket buffs in absolute terms that were not scaled (or were not affected by built-in scaling mechanics) according to where the mission is done.
There used to be a much stronger degree of progression in rewards as the space became more dangerous, but it has been almost completely counteracted by alterations meant to make them more easy to come by. That is not to say that the changes were bad, but that were only done with one end of the spectrum in mind and not applied properly in a way that maintained the progression. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
I know how you feel, I run high sec incursions and do sisters of eve and trust partners missions. I don't still go to my alliances ratting systems from time to time for a change up, but there are always neutrals about and I get interrupted a lot, which is fine because this is EVE but it makes it's where I think "why bother, i'll just go to high sec for what I need".
Yeah, thank you for understand what i'm trying to say. I have give a try to Incursions too. Maybe these fleets will count with a new Machariel soon. |

Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1219
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
so you live in NPC nullsec and complain about not making enough money with your lvl 5 missions ? you are doing it wrong. lvl 5 missions for pirates and PI are the only two things where nullsec is clearly superior over highsec. GRRR Goons |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4936
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:WILLY TROPICAL wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong  I'm not part of a big alliance with dead end farming systems. I live with another 2 guys in null npc. I explore, run missions etc, but sometimes i can't because other lads are trying to hug my boat. If i see combat probes in space, i have to stop because if i don't warp away bad stuff will happen. In high sec, i don't have to warp away never. It is mission after mission after mission. You do realize a lot of the high security missions hubs aren't so safe these days, right? I see people getting ganked all the time, even in ships that aren't all fancy without fancy modules.
Yet i've spent years in Gicodel (back in the day) and now Osmon and Lanngis flying Golems, Machs, Tengus and Vargurs and haven't been messed with except for the rare guy coming into my mission trying to get me to agress. The dangers of mission hubs are way overblown and the people who do get killed in them are simply not being very smart.
How hard is it (for example) to MJD away from the warp in of a Gone Berserk or Buzz Kill? |

SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
179
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
WILLY TROPICAL wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong  I'm not part of a big alliance with dead end farming systems. I live with another 2 guys in null npc. I explore, run missions etc, but sometimes i can't because other lads are trying to hug my boat. If i see combat probes in space, i have to stop because if i don't warp away bad stuff will happen. In high sec, i don't have to warp away never. It is mission after mission after mission.
booohooo I don't want others to be rich if I can't be rich. Blue
|

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4936
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:so you live in NPC nullsec and complain about not making enough money with your lvl 5 missions ? you are doing it wrong. lvl 5 missions for pirates and PI are the only two things where nullsec is clearly superior over highsec.
Yea, love me some pirate lvl 5 missions. I do them alot when I'm not doing 20/10 DED plexes or Wormhole Incursions......
(for those who can't take a hint, Pirate lvl 5 missions don't exist). |

WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Gilbaron wrote:so you live in NPC nullsec and complain about not making enough money with your lvl 5 missions ? you are doing it wrong. lvl 5 missions for pirates and PI are the only two things where nullsec is clearly superior over highsec. Yea, love me some pirate lvl 5 missions. I do them alot when I'm not doing 20/10 DED plexes or Wormhole Incursions...... (for those who can't take a hint, Pirate lvl 5 missions don't exist).
He's a nulli secunda guy, please understand his limitations.
|

Dace Onio
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
CeeCeePees they has more shtuff than me pweez nerfvs it or make my stuffs better
Seriously dude LTP
BTW your other topic wasnt enough i guess? |

Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
915
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yea we know, for years people make the same point. There's posts going back half a decade on eve search saying the same.
The real question is; why nothing is done about it?
The CSM is supposed to convey these issues, are they failing? CCP has a professional economist to balance economy, is he failing?
Or, something else........ |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4936
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
WILLY TROPICAL wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
I know how you feel, I run high sec incursions and do sisters of eve and trust partners missions. I don't still go to my alliances ratting systems from time to time for a change up, but there are always neutrals about and I get interrupted a lot, which is fine because this is EVE but it makes it's where I think "why bother, i'll just go to high sec for what I need".
Yeah, thank you for understand what i'm trying to say. I have to give a try to Incursions too. Maybe these fleets will count with a new Machariel soon.
Mach is good for incursions but it seems like everyone and their mommas have one lol. Vindicators and Logistics ships get you into fleets faster in my experience, there even seems to be a slight resurgence of FC wanting nightmares in fleets too, in the communities I fly with.
I had a buddy come back to the game a few months ago and we went to our alliances null space and did a little ratting and plexing. It was ok, but nothing really major. He'd never done incursions so I loaned him my incursion mach when he went to High Sec.
I honest to God can't get him to come back to null except when there is a fleet going out, last night he said he had something like 3 million CONCORD LP he was about to sell to buy some pvp ships to throw away. Once you can reliably get into an incursion fleet there isn't much point to doing anything else pve-wise to make isk except boredom.
|

WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dace Onio wrote:CeeCeePees they has more shtuff than me pweez nerfvs it or make my stuffs better
Nullbear tears are the sweetest
I already said that i respect all the playstyles of eve and i don't care where others live or make money, but if eve is based on the risk vs reward, we should see more rewards in some places.
I have nothing against high sec, your bait post is a failure. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4936
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Yea we know, for years people make the same point. There's posts going back half a decade on eve search saying the same.
The real question is; why nothing is done about it?
The CSM is supposed to convey these issues, are they failing? CCP has a professional economist to balance economy, is he failing?
Or, something else........
I don't think many CSMs (past or present) are really hardcore into PVE.
And it's a fallacy to believe that the imbalances have to have anything to do with the overall economy. In other words, the economy is probably fine but that doesn't mean that PVE wise null sec is good for anything other than renting out and passing through rather than 'living' in. |

Batelle
HOMELE55
1992
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:You do realize a lot of the high security missions hubs aren't so safe these days, right? I see people getting ganked all the time, even in ships that aren't all fancy without fancy modules.
They're more than safe enough. And you don't have to mission for SOE to get good, sustainable, uninterruptible isk. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

Ptraci
The Irukandji Ineluctable.
1786
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 16:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
WILLY TROPICAL wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong  I'm not part of a big alliance with dead end farming systems. I live with another 2 guys in null npc. I explore, run missions etc, but sometimes i can't because other lads are trying to hug my boat. If i see combat probes in space, i have to stop because if i don't warp away bad stuff will happen. In high sec, i don't have to warp away never. It is mission after mission after mission.
Wait I think you're perverting the idea of risk/reward. You mean to say that you, the single player who is taking a huge risk, should not be interfered with by that organized alliance actively patrolling and defending their space, probing you out, etc - since after all there are 30 of them they are taking no risk. So all reward to you and not to them, right?
Life doesn't work like that.
You can still make a fortune alone in null. It takes work. Do your stuff in a different time zone. Change regions. Use a less shiny ship that will attract less attention. Etc. Don't give me that "I'm all alone I have no friends so I'm taking huge risks I should win EVE" stuff, it doesn't work like that.
I went out for 3 hours the other day in a buzzard, all alone. I wandered across several NPC and sov nullsec regions. I made about 400M worth of loot from running data and relic sites. But I wasn't sitting on my backside expecting CCP to hand me isk, I had to check maps, I had to clear camps, I had to focus only on cans/sites that had worthwhile loot, etc. I very nearly got caught and killed once, but I got away. Risk, reward. But active game-play. |

March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1273
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
WILLY TROPICAL wrote: I'm not asking for a high sec nerf because i respect all playstyles but if i want to make money in little time i have to go high sec and i don't like to do that because i like living in null.
so basically you want CCP to remove players from 0.0 so you could run missions as safe as in empire for the better rewards?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:WILLY TROPICAL wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong  I'm not part of a big alliance with dead end farming systems. I live with another 2 guys in null npc. I explore, run missions etc, but sometimes i can't because other lads are trying to hug my boat. If i see combat probes in space, i have to stop because if i don't warp away bad stuff will happen. In high sec, i don't have to warp away never. It is mission after mission after mission. Wait I think you're perverting the idea of risk/reward. You mean to say that you, the single player who is taking a huge risk, should not be interfered with by that organized alliance actively patrolling and defending their space, probing you out, etc - since after all there are 30 of them they are taking no risk. So all reward to you and not to them, right?
Where did i say that? Also, i pvp too, not only pve.
The guys that try to kill me everyday also take high risks living here, and i see them everyday running away from bigger gangs, sometimes fighting smaller gangs, but i can tell you that they have my respect for being there. They deserve better stuff too, not only me.
Don't put words in my mouth that i didn't say.
|

WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:WILLY TROPICAL wrote: I'm not asking for a high sec nerf because i respect all playstyles but if i want to make money in little time i have to go high sec and i don't like to do that because i like living in null.
so basically you want CCP to remove players from 0.0 so you could run missions as safe as in empire for the better rewards?
No, i want more people on eve-o forums who can read without losing half brain. Get well soon. |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4375
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:WILLY TROPICAL wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong  I'm not part of a big alliance with dead end farming systems. I live with another 2 guys in null npc. I explore, run missions etc, but sometimes i can't because other lads are trying to hug my boat. If i see combat probes in space, i have to stop because if i don't warp away bad stuff will happen. In high sec, i don't have to warp away never. It is mission after mission after mission. Wait I think you're perverting the idea of risk/reward. You mean to say that you, the single player who is taking a huge risk, should not be interfered with by that organized alliance actively patrolling and defending their space, probing you out, etc - since after all there are 30 of them they are taking no risk. So all reward to you and not to them, right? Life doesn't work like that. You can still make a fortune alone in null. It takes work. Do your stuff in a different time zone. Change regions. Use a less shiny ship that will attract less attention. Etc. Don't give me that "I'm all alone I have no friends so I'm taking huge risks I should win EVE" stuff, it doesn't work like that. I went out for 3 hours the other day in a buzzard, all alone. I wandered across several NPC and sov nullsec regions. I made about 400M worth of loot from running data and relic sites. But I wasn't sitting on my backside expecting CCP to hand me isk, I had to check maps, I had to clear camps, I had to focus only on cans/sites that had worthwhile loot, etc. I very nearly got caught and killed once, but I got away. Risk, reward. But active game-play.
^ and that's how you do it Bring back DEEEEP Space! |

WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
^ and that's how you do it
Good, i'm taking notes, because i never did that!! Thanks for the suggestions GD. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19724
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:WILLY TROPICAL wrote: I'm not asking for a high sec nerf because i respect all playstyles but if i want to make money in little time i have to go high sec and i don't like to do that because i like living in null.
so basically you want CCP to remove players from 0.0 so you could run missions as safe as in empire for the better rewards? No. Basically, he wants the rewards in 0.0 to be large enough to (more than) compensate for the interruptions from the players out there. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Em arr Roids
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
I ran two relics sites in null yesterday. Not one interruption and a swift 100m in the bag for 5 mins work.
You don't get that in high sec!. |

WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tippia wrote: No. Basically, he wants the rewards in 0.0 to be large enough to (more than) compensate for the interruptions from the players out there.
That is what i'm trying to say.
I'm ok with people scanning me, i'm ok with gate camps, i'm ok with a nomadic null lifestyle, but if i put the things i get here in a balance, the risk vs reward isn't very well compensated in eve. That is all.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19724
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Em arr Roids wrote:I ran two relics sites in null yesterday. Not one interruption and a swift 100m in the bag for 5 mins work.
You don't get that in high sec!. Yes you can. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4940
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Ptraci wrote:WILLY TROPICAL wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:If you make more money in high-sec then you do in null-sec then you're doing null-sec wrong  I'm not part of a big alliance with dead end farming systems. I live with another 2 guys in null npc. I explore, run missions etc, but sometimes i can't because other lads are trying to hug my boat. If i see combat probes in space, i have to stop because if i don't warp away bad stuff will happen. In high sec, i don't have to warp away never. It is mission after mission after mission. Wait I think you're perverting the idea of risk/reward. You mean to say that you, the single player who is taking a huge risk, should not be interfered with by that organized alliance actively patrolling and defending their space, probing you out, etc - since after all there are 30 of them they are taking no risk. So all reward to you and not to them, right? Life doesn't work like that. You can still make a fortune alone in null. It takes work. Do your stuff in a different time zone. Change regions. Use a less shiny ship that will attract less attention. Etc. Don't give me that "I'm all alone I have no friends so I'm taking huge risks I should win EVE" stuff, it doesn't work like that. I went out for 3 hours the other day in a buzzard, all alone. I wandered across several NPC and sov nullsec regions. I made about 400M worth of loot from running data and relic sites. But I wasn't sitting on my backside expecting CCP to hand me isk, I had to check maps, I had to clear camps, I had to focus only on cans/sites that had worthwhile loot, etc. I very nearly got caught and killed once, but I got away. Risk, reward. But active game-play. ^ and that's how you do it
Yea, that's how everyone who does it does it.
But, in the exact same 3 hours he spent out there making 400 mil, I was probably in high sec running incursions making 300+ mil (ie more than enough isk to do things with), without having to deal with stupid loot spew (thank god they are getting rid of that) or that dumb hacking game, without having to even glance at local or worry about a bubble someone anchored on a gate and forget, basically without stress.
Which is the point of why null is empty desert where Ptraci can fly around almost undisturbed. No one is fighting over space for income for themselves or their alliance. They're fighting over who gets to collect rent from that high sec corp that wants to go to null but doesn't want to deal with politics.
No one is asking CCP to hand us isk in null sec, mainly because they are already handing us (mainly our alts) isk in high sec..
All we want is a system that makes sense and a null sec worth living in and thus worth fighting for. |
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