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Gregor Parud
281
   |
Posted - 2014.03.07 11:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
GKFC wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:GKFC wrote:As opposed to "overpowered is bad because then only overpowered ships fly around a lot" which is all the OP really said?
Yeah that makes sense. fyp, I'm sure you could have figured that out yourself. You're being overly dramatic.
Technically, sure. But it's more true than what you implied.
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350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 19:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
I'm back to eve after a 4 year break and it's funny that this conversation is occurring again. (4 years ago 7km/s inties were the scourge of 0.0).
That being said, and understanding I'm not up to date on all the changes that took place in last four years, but wouldn't a few Rapiers and Hyenas counter the intie blobs? Used to work for me well; in a Rapier I had 50km or more range on a web.
And to ask a clarifying question, can you still put a point on an intie, iIs the immunity just for bubbles? TBH I think stationary bubbles are the problem, not inties.
Gate camping is boring. |
SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers
Black Legion.
67
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 20:06:00 -
[63] - Quote
Confirming nobody in Nullsec has any clue whatsoever how to stop inties. Yes we're still seeing formups consisting of sabres too.
While groups of the ships generally do move around with impunity, if your small gang on the gate is not catching at least one or two its simply because your fleet composition is bad. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 22:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
Interceptors aren't too strong, cynos are too strong.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
254
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:09:00 -
[65] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:Easiest way to fix this is to make it a module/skill
High Slot Module that only interceptors can fit, when active allows bubble immunity, but reduces lock time/range and takes up a high slot (less DPS)
So, if you want mobility and the ability to scout for your fleet and get out of bubbles, you fit for it.
If you want to take the risk of getting caught in exchange for catch your target faster and applying more damage, then do it.
This is on the right track. A 30m frigate hull should not have something that requires a T3 to fit a specific subsystem and lose a low slot.
The solution is to have the bubble immunity given by a passive high slot module that when fit reduces agility, increases ship mass, and reduces warp speed. This way you can be bubble immune or instant warp, but not both. Right now interceptors get to have their cake and eat it too. |
GKFC
Quis Leget Haec
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
Except that was part of the reason for the change in the first place. To make it easier for Inties to fly around anyway.
I hope CCP doesn't give in to the knee-jerk reactions in this thread towards the Inty buff. Give it more time for the dust to settle on exactly how much of an impact this change really is having and then make a call. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation
Care Factor
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 01:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
GKFC wrote:Except that was part of the reason for the change in the first place. To make it easier for Inties to fly around anyway.
I hope CCP doesn't give in to the knee-jerk reactions in this thread towards the Inty buff. Give it more time for the dust to settle on exactly how much of an impact this change really is having and then make a call.
I don't think its a knee-jerk reaction. And I also hope that CCP doesn't give up on this idea. What I hope, is that interceptors, rather than being THE fleet, become a very important part of a balanced fleet.
What I want to see is that the Interceptor intercepts, and that the rest of the fleet is a necessary part of the rest of the kill. If i fly around, by myself in any other support role (Lachesis for example), I will probably only win against a lone idiot. I will most likely get popped quickly if I come up against any semi-organized fleet and stupidly choose to engage. If I'm skilled enough, I'll choose not to engage and with luck I'll make it out of the system to fight another day.
I don't see the interceptor fitting into anything other than a support role (that of intercepting), yet here we are, with a fleet of support ships doing basically anything they want. DPS to kill almost every ship quickly, speed to tank or get away with only a few worries, and the ability to roam everywhere and anywhere they want to without significant risk.
Which might sum it up the best... Very high reward...very little risk.
My opinion, flame away :)
Cedric
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Horrorzombie
Polaris Rising
Gentlemen's Agreement
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 01:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
i totally agree they are way too strong with 0 counter unless you have a arazu and a huginn... but even then they are still able to escape (most of the time) i would at least like to see a HIC bubble that could stop the nulli for them.... just because you never see hics solo or with a gang (most of the time) |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 03:34:00 -
[69] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:Easiest way to fix this is to make it a module/skill
High Slot Module that only interceptors can fit, when active allows bubble immunity, but reduces lock time/range and takes up a high slot (less DPS)
So, if you want mobility and the ability to scout for your fleet and get out of bubbles, you fit for it.
If you want to take the risk of getting caught in exchange for catch your target faster and applying more damage, then do it.
I like this idea, though I wouldn't limit it to interceptors. At the very least, make strategic cruisers need this module to get their bubble immunity with the subsystem that does it--it can have some other effect if you don't. And blockade runners have bubble immunity too right? Everyone with bubble immunity should have to fit a module for it, just like covert ops have to fit a covert ops cloak.
Also, to defeat or guard against interceptors, it helps to understand their weaknesses. One big weakness they have is CPU. They tend to have an extra high slot to fit a cloaking device, but if they fit one, it can cut their CPU more than they may be comfortable with. I'd wager that most of the more dangerous interceptors do not have one fitted. You can take advantage of this by cutting off their exits, then once you have them trapped you can bring in a scanning ship and chase them down. You might never catch the interceptor but you at least put him on the run, and he can't be used for attacking your fleet during that time.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1770
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 04:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Horrorzombie wrote:i totally agree they are way too strong with 0 counter unless you have a arazu and a huginn... but even then they are still able to escape (most of the time) i would at least like to see a HIC bubble that could stop the nulli for them.... just because you never see hics solo or with a gang (most of the time)
This is a good idea. HIC with a unique role :) n yeah I realise they have FIS.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 04:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Horrorzombie wrote:i totally agree they are way too strong with 0 counter unless you have a arazu and a huginn... but even then they are still able to escape (most of the time) i would at least like to see a HIC bubble that could stop the nulli for them.... just because you never see hics solo or with a gang (most of the time) This is a good idea. HIC with a unique role :) n yeah I realise they have FIS. I believe it's known as a Warp Disruptor.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2865
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 04:35:00 -
[72] - Quote
Interceptors are weak as hell, you're just flying the wrong ships to engage them. What is this argument about anyway? Interceptors are to strong because you can't catch them? Ridiculous argument.
Oh god. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation
Care Factor
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 05:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Interceptors are weak as hell, you're just flying the wrong ships to engage them. What is this argument about anyway? Interceptors are to strong because you can't catch them? Ridiculous argument.
The argument is not about whether you can catch them or not. If I fit for it, yes I can catch one. However, that interceptor in almost every case will always dictate the engagement.
On the off chance 3 people in my gang have a Huginn, a Lachesis/Arazu and a Skirmish Booster and I do catch it, sure, it will die.
On the other hand, if I don't have that, or if the server ticks in the Interceptor's favor, that interceptor gang continues to choose every aspect of the next engagement. They can decide where, when, for how long, when to disengage and when to come back. There is no other ship type that can dictate all of those things, all at the same time. Each of those options, by themselves, are fine and good and add to the game. All of them in one ship is bad.
My stealth bomber/recon can get caught in a bubble, or is slow enough if I point it to take damage.
My Blockade runner doesn't have enough DPS to do anything
My *Insert non-interceptor nano ship* is fast enough to run away, but will get caught at a gate because it doesn't "insta-warp"
My *insert every other ship in the game* will be committed to the fight for better or worse once it engages.
Put any sized gang of any ship composition against an even number of Interceptors and the worst case scenario is the Interceptors leave without taking losses. Best case is the other gang catches one or two interceptors and drives them off.
If any other gang of ships comes to my space, I can always force them to move in a certain way. If a ceptor gang comes to my space, they will always dictate every engagement, and THAT is the problem.
Flame away :)
Cedric
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2866
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 05:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:the worst case scenario is the Interceptors leave without taking losses. Best case is the other gang catches one or two interceptors and drives them off.
So how are they dictating the engagement? Put light drones on them, they run away. Put a heavy neut on them, they run away. Put a web on them they run away. Sneeze at them, they die. So they can point from 30+ km. It doesn't mean anything if you're not dying.
Oh god. |
Gregor Parud
283
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 10:44:00 -
[75] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Dr Cedric wrote:the worst case scenario is the Interceptors leave without taking losses. Best case is the other gang catches one or two interceptors and drives them off. So how are they dictating the engagement? Put light drones on them, they run away. Put a heavy neut on them, they run away. Put a web on them they run away. Sneeze at them, they die. So they can point from 30+ km. It doesn't mean anything if you're not dying.
They're too good right now, simple as.
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2871
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 11:17:00 -
[76] - Quote
Too good at what? Avoiding fights and annoying people?
Oh god. |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
282
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 12:32:00 -
[77] - Quote
Just adapt. You're upset you can't get your easy kills anymore? You're upset your bubble isn't the all out answer to everything trying to move through your space anymore? Really, try other tactics instead of raging here.
It seems like your only argument is "I can't catch it, therefore its OP". They are paperthin and die very, very fast. So what if they get to pick the fights? Neut or drones will make it back off very fast. And so what if it then decides to bail out again? Like in what possible way is that a reason to nerf it.
To be honest, this thread just makes it look like you're upset gate camping with bubbles doesn't allow you to farm free kills anymore. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1009
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 16:10:00 -
[78] - Quote
Interceptors are dictating engagements now? Yes, and I believe covert ops are hot dropping people, too. Nerf them both! Frigates shouldn't have the power of a fleet without having a fl.....waitaminute
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Cyrek Ohaya
Perkone
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 19:22:00 -
[79] - Quote
The inty immunity gave me an opportunity to explore nullsec space which i never stepped on, i am sure other capsuleers share my same story.
Though I still feel bubbles pose a big threat to interceptors that if you're destroyed inside one, you have no chance of recovering your pod? There is still a lot of risk involved. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation
Care Factor
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 04:26:00 -
[80] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Dr Cedric wrote:the worst case scenario is the Interceptors leave without taking losses. Best case is the other gang catches one or two interceptors and drives them off. So how are they dictating the engagement? Put light drones on them, they run away. Put a heavy neut on them, they run away. Put a web on them they run away. Sneeze at them, they die. So they can point from 30+ km. It doesn't mean anything if you're not dying.
They dictate the engagement because those are literally the only options. I am forced to fight them that way, and at best they are simply "ran off." I can't pull some fancy, well thought out move and turn the table on them. I can't pull some hair-brained, yet super-lucky trick on them and get it to work. Put any other ship type in place of the interceptor and there are any number of ways I can turn the tables on them.
I like the fact that these ships are super fast. I like that they can get there and land before I enter warp. I'm glad they can point me from 30 km if they want. I'm glad they can fly around bubbles with impunity. The problem comes when they do it all at the same time, and that there is not consequence for committing to the engagement. I want to be intercepted by an interceptor, not blown up by it.
Every other ship type, even in gangs, has to seriously consider the consequences of committing to the fight. Interceptors have way too much freedom in this regard.
My opinion, flame away :)
Cedric
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1017
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 16:26:00 -
[81] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:Every other ship type, even in gangs, has to seriously consider the consequences of committing to the fight. Interceptors have way too much freedom in this regard. I'd like to see interceptors have just 3 high slots, and having to give up a weapon to fit a bubble immunity module, or a cloaking device, or a neut. If they want to fit all 3 well.....that interceptor will be useful for a lot of things but shooting people won't be one of them.
I'd call that balanced.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Rostok Kemal
Theory Group
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 18:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
Let's turn this around a little bit. Let's remove bubble immunity from the interceptors, but also remove bubbles except for HICs. Fair trade?
Seriously if anything is OP it is bubbles. It locks people out of significant areas of null sec space effectively barring the "good fights" everyone says they want. |
SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers
Black Legion.
68
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 20:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
I've got two sides to this coin.
Firstly, as they are, inties are a great way to get more people into null, and it is working. It's also a good catalyst for more of that 'small gang' stuff everyone missed so much. In this respect, I think they are accomplishing exactly what CCP hoped for.
On the other side of the coin, I am by NO means a good inty pilot (just started with Rubicon), and have 160 kills to ZERO losses in a crow. So yeah...wondering about that overpowered bit. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1777
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 22:08:00 -
[84] - Quote
Rostok Kemal wrote:Let's turn this around a little bit. Let's remove bubble immunity from the interceptors, but also remove bubbles except for HICs. Fair trade?
Seriously if anything is OP it is bubbles. It locks people out of significant areas of null sec space effectively barring the "good fights" everyone says they want.
Not really. With the introduction of WH's any null area is only one or two jumps from high sec. All you need to do is take a bubble immune interceptor or covert ops alt to the area you want, scan a wh back to high and bring any ship you like through. I took 6 drakes and a rohk to deep stain the other day in about 40 minutes. Not a single bubble was encountered in my 2 jumps from high to there.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1020
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 22:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I took 6 drakes and a rohk to deep stain the other day in about 40 minutes. Not a single bubble was encountered in my 2 jumps from high to there. I'm sure you landed exactly where you were planning to go.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
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