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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Toksin
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Posted - 2006.04.19 21:54:00 -
[1]
Most people think that Blasterthrons are broken, ATM. There's been suggestions on how to fix it, but I was curious, what does everyone think is the BARE minimum needed to make them better, to fill the supreme seat of Close-Range king, which personally, I believe they should hold. 10km and under should be their space.
Possible fixes.
Fix 1
Reduce CPU usage on large blasters, or increase CPU by, like, 50-100 on Mega.
Fix 2
Reduce cap usage on large blasters, or increase over-all cap and cap recharge rate of Mega. Not sure by how much.
Fix 3
Increase Large blaster damage by 5%-10% naturally, or change the bonus on the Mega to a 7.5%(Or I think because they're changing all 5% to 7.5%s, 10%?)
Those are what, I believe to be the bare minimum to make it, in my eyes, more viable. Right/wrong, in your eyes. Fine how it is?
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My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
CptEagle
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Posted - 2006.04.19 21:57:00 -
[2]
Well changing the Megathron won't do anything, coz the problem is blasters themselves.
And the 5% bonus going to 7,5% is the tracking bonusses. If you boost the dmg bonus on Megathron you're increasing railguns too.
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SasRipper
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Posted - 2006.04.19 21:58:00 -
[3]
signed
All three would be nice 
WTB Shadow Serpentis ion blaster cannons |
Toksin
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Posted - 2006.04.19 21:59:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: CptEagle
Well changing the Megathron won't do anything, coz the problem is blasters themselves.
And the 5% bonus going to 7,5% is the tracking bonusses. If you boost the dmg bonus on Megathron you're increasing railguns too.
Thanks for clarifying on the bonuses. I wasn't sure. And, TBH, hadn't thought of the railgun boosts. I didn't know anyone fit railguns on a mega.
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My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:00:00 -
[5]
no
the megathron isnt the problem, it is large blasters and to an extent medium blasters!
1st: the cap of large blasters require a massive nerf, you need to at lest half it, perhaps a 75% cap cut is in order!
2nd: Blasters use far too much cpu, a cpu decrease is required, a good cpu decrease.
3rd: tracking is a problem for the design of the guns, but the mega is seeing a 10% increase in tracking, [going from 1.25 multiplier to a 1.375 multiplier] this may fix it but it may require more, i dont know about it yet.
other options to "fix" the blasters
some people have suggested a damage increase which would fix it but in some situations imo make it overpowered if the damage increased so this isnt a good idea.
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
commander tycho
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: commander tycho on 19/04/2006 22:03:56
Well i definitely want the cap reduction, that would be very nice. however the cpu reduction isnt a big priority in my eyes, i mean sure it will make it things a lot easier but i think it will result in electrons being completely pointless. Who will fit them if it will be possible to use ions effectivley in your setup?
I want a damage increase, but lots of people scream "no!" at me, which is fair enough every has a different style. But i think a damage increase will result in the blasterthron becoming the true gank close range ship. i dont want a tanker, i want **** loads of damage to tear through people before my weaker tank dies!
thats just my opinion however, everyone likes their ship differently.
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Toksin
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gronsak
no
the megathron isnt the problem, it is large blasters and to an extent medium blasters!
1st: the cap of large blasters require a massive nerf, you need to at lest half it, perhaps a 75% cap cut is in order!
2nd: Blasters use far too much cpu, a cpu decrease is required, a good cpu decrease.
3rd: tracking is a problem for the design of the guns, but the mega is seeing a 10% increase in tracking, [going from 1.25 multiplier to a 1.375 multiplier] this may fix it but it may require more, i dont know about it yet.
other options to "fix" the blasters
some people have suggested a damage increase which would fix it but in some situations imo make it overpowered if the damage increased so this isnt a good idea.
I'd like this. But it would overpower the B-Thron. 75% capu reduction? Yikes.
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My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
Toksin
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: commander tycho
Edited by: commander tycho on 19/04/2006 22:03:56
Well i definitely want the cap reduction, that would be very nice. however the cpu reduction isnt a big priority in my eyes, i mean sure it will make it things a lot easier but i think it will result in electrons being completely pointless. Who will fit them if it will be possible to use ions effectivley in your setup?
I want a damage increase, but lots of people scream "no!" at me, which is fair enough every has a different style. But i think a damage increase will result in the blasterthron becoming the true gank close range ship. i dont want a tanker, i want **** loads of damage to tear through people before my weaker tank dies!
thats just my opinion however, everyone likes their ship differently.
QFT
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My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: commander tycho
Well i definitely want the cap reduction, that would be very nice. however the cpu reduction isnt a big priority in my eyes, i mean sure it will make it things a lot easier but i think it will result in electrons being completely pointless. Who will fit them if it will be possible to use ions effectivley in your setup?
I want a damage increase, but lots of people scram "no!" at me, which is fair enough every has a different style. But i think a damage increase will result in the blasterthron becoming the true gank close range ship. i dont want a tanker, i want **** loads of damage to tear through people before my weaker tank dies!
the difference in electrons --> ions ---> neutrons isnt the CPU really, its the PG. so electrons will still stay as the tank guns, and neutrson the gank guns. and ions somewhere inbetween.
the cpu decrease on the guns would enable the use of neutrons/ions without useing a CPU mod or faction mods. in its place it is unlikely you can place anything with high PG since the ions/neutrons with the injecter/mwd take up much of the PG. so cpu decrease just means we can fit stuff without having to pay ****e lads for faction stuff
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Toksin
I'd like this. But it would overpower the B-Thron. 75% capu reduction? Yikes.
AC use 3 cap a shot before skills [5.63sec rof]
pulse use 20 cap a shot [that is after the BS skill] [7.88sec rof]
blasters use 26 cap a shot [7.88sec rof]
as can be seen blasters use 30% more cap than pulse lasers, and 620% more cap than AC.
blasters have the lowest range, hardest to fit, the ship its used on has the highest sig [mega vs temp , vs gedden]. and on top of all that use more cap than the other two gun systems.
also to note, pulse can hit upto 48km with t1 ammo + falloff. blasters max out effective damage at about 15km. yet we use 30% more cap than pulse lasers
imo a fair number would be blasters useing half that of pulse lasers [neutrons useing 10cap ever 7.88sec where megapulse use 20cap every 7.88sec]
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:18:00 -
[11]
Yes, now do a comparison of cap vs damage done.
Nice try, but that really dosn't justify the slashing of blaster cap requirements (There are good arguments for it, but not that one).
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Toksin
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yes, now do a comparison of cap vs damage done.
Nice try, but that really dosn't justify the slashing of blaster cap requirements (There are good arguments for it, but not that one).
Agreed. What I want, and it was said easier, is just a damage increase, TBH, and MAYBE a small CPU boost. 20 CPU, plz?  In my mind, the Blasterthron has been a damage machine. Just able to get in there, and SHRED the opponent. By his damage output. But of course, his tank would be weak. But tanking isn't what he should be doing. :)
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My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:34:00 -
[13]
there is nothign wrong with the bt, its the guns that are fubared
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:34:00 -
[14]
How about:
-10% cap usage on medium blasters
-25% cap usage on large blasters
+10% tracking on medium blasters
+25% tracking on large blasters
-10% CPU usage on medium blasters
-10% CPU usage on large blasters.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
|
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yes, now do a comparison of cap vs damage done.
Nice try, but that really dosn't justify the slashing of blaster cap requirements (There are good arguments for it, but not that one).
gun for gun,
AC do more damage than blasters on a tempest!
megapulse does about 3% less DPS gun for gun compaired to neutron blasters but it ofcourse can get 45km optimal with t1 ammo and has many other advantages!
so damage to cap, well we are more than 620% more cap for dmg/sec
and we are just under 30% cap per sec for pulse lasers
so there goes your argument
so we use more cap per gun than AC and do less damage
and we use 30% more cap per gun and do 3% more damage per gun compaired to megapulse. but as u know the MP can hit upto 45km VERy hard where blasters are limited to 15km and realisticly 10km.
any other arguments for me to crush?
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Gronsak
|
Posted - 2006.04.19 22:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
How about:
-10% cap usage on medium blasters
-25% cap usage on large blasters
+10% tracking on medium blasters
+25% tracking on large blasters
-10% CPU usage on medium blasters
-10% CPU usage on large blasters.
i really really really dont think that is close to enough cap reduction on large blasters. it would bring the base neutron cap to 19.5 where the base megapulse is 20 but as you know its got a uber range compaired to blasters.
imo if L-blasters can be run on the mega without a cap mod indefinitly useing AM then its ok.
25% cap reduction is not enough. min imo 50%
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Dreez
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:57:00 -
[17]
The only true way of measuring DPS on L-Blasters is to
do the following.
Fit 6 guns of each type, then check the amount dmg they do
compared to ACs.
Electron / D425 / Launchers.
Ion / D650 / Launchers.
Neutrons / 800mm / Launchers.
And when each of the blasters outdamage everything in their
class, we will have a weapon according to CCPs info.
Then add the 7:th gun ontop of that, and weŚll have the blasterthron
as it was ment to be, a closerange killer.
Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years,
at the pub, getting a cold beer.
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Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
How about:
-10% cap usage on medium blasters
-25% cap usage on large blasters
+10% tracking on medium blasters
+25% tracking on large blasters
-10% CPU usage on medium blasters
-10% CPU usage on large blasters.
even with that deimos cant fit 5x ions, med nos mwd scram web and a med rep
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
|
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:17:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Gronsak on 19/04/2006 23:19:14
Originally by: Dark Shikari
How about:
-25% cap usage on large blasters
+25% tracking on large blasters
-10% CPU usage on large blasters.
-10% cpu is not enough imho.
it saves:
37.8units of cpu if fitting neutrons
34.65units of cpu if fitting neutrons
28.875 units of cpu if fitting electrons
that is not enough in most cases to remove the manditory cpu mod!!
not to mention we would still be useing more CPU and POWERGRID compaired to AC [AC are best compairison to blasters since pulse have great optmal].
as an example, useing the most cpu efficent mods. with the cpu changes you suggest.
one could fit:
7x neutrons t2. 1x empty
1x mwd, 1x web, 1x 20km, 1x med electrochemica cap injecter.
L-repper, 3x EANM t2, 2x dmg mod.
gives 699.2 CPU out of 687.5 CPU [11.7CPU over] AND we got 1 high and one low left and we are already out of CPU! so would need a cpu mod to fit something in that last high, basicly exactly how it is now!!
with ions:
7x ions t2
1x mwd, 1x web, 1x 20km, 1x heavy electrochemica, L repper, 3x EANM t2, 2x dmg mods
690.85 CPU out of 687.5 CPU [more than 3 cpu over] and yet again we have 1 high slot and one low slot left to fill, again you need a cpu mod
basicly a 10% decrease in cpu in L-blasters just kicks us in the balls, before we needed the cpu mod to be able to add anoter 40-60 cpu to fit our setup, now we will be about 10 cpu shot, and would be required to fit a cpu in low just to fill the last high.
a higher CPU reduction is definitly needed!
this might be sound stupid but 20% imo is more in line with what is required, just means we save 57.75 CPU when fitting electrons ... ect! which is less than 10% of the megas total cpu!
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:19:00 -
[20]
Be patient.............
Originally by: KilROCK
I make sigs, evemail me if interested. (petwraith, go nerf someone else signature, i don't care about 0.411KB!)
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:34:00 -
[21]
Give amarr explosive damage
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Toksin
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Posted - 2006.04.20 04:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gronsak
Edited by: Gronsak on 19/04/2006 23:19:14
Originally by: Dark Shikari
How about:
-25% cap usage on large blasters
+25% tracking on large blasters
-10% CPU usage on large blasters.
-10% cpu is not enough imho.
it saves:
37.8units of cpu if fitting neutrons
34.65units of cpu if fitting neutrons
28.875 units of cpu if fitting electrons
that is not enough in most cases to remove the manditory cpu mod!!
not to mention we would still be useing more CPU and POWERGRID compaired to AC [AC are best compairison to blasters since pulse have great optmal].
as an example, useing the most cpu efficent mods. with the cpu changes you suggest.
one could fit:
7x neutrons t2. 1x empty
1x mwd, 1x web, 1x 20km, 1x med electrochemica cap injecter.
L-repper, 3x EANM t2, 2x dmg mod.
gives 699.2 CPU out of 687.5 CPU [11.7CPU over] AND we got 1 high and one low left and we are already out of CPU! so would need a cpu mod to fit something in that last high, basicly exactly how it is now!!
with ions:
7x ions t2
1x mwd, 1x web, 1x 20km, 1x heavy electrochemica, L repper, 3x EANM t2, 2x dmg mods
690.85 CPU out of 687.5 CPU [more than 3 cpu over] and yet again we have 1 high slot and one low slot left to fill, again you need a cpu mod
basicly a 10% decrease in cpu in L-blasters just kicks us in the balls, before we needed the cpu mod to be able to add anoter 40-60 cpu to fit our setup, now we will be about 10 cpu shot, and would be required to fit a cpu in low just to fill the last high.
a higher CPU reduction is definitly needed!
this might be sound stupid but 20% imo is more in line with what is required, just means we save 57.75 CPU when fitting electrons ... ect! which is less than 10% of the megas total cpu!
Did you count skills?
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My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2006.04.20 04:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: KilROCK
Be patient.............
no
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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B0rn2KiLL
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Posted - 2006.04.20 05:06:00 -
[24]
Edited by: B0rn2KiLL on 20/04/2006 05:05:54
Originally by: Dark Shikari
How about:
-10% cap usage on medium blasters
-25% cap usage on large blasters
+10% tracking on medium blasters
+25% tracking on large blasters
-10% CPU usage on medium blasters
-10% CPU usage on large blasters.
/signed
this man knows his blasters
---
When It Absolutely Positively Has To Be Desotroyed. |
Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 05:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yes, now do a comparison of cap vs damage done.
Nice try, but that really dosn't justify the slashing of blaster cap requirements (There are good arguments for it, but not that one).
gun for gun,
AC do more damage than blasters on a tempest!megapulse does about 3% less DPS gun for gun compaired to neutron blasters but it ofcourse can get 45km optimal with t1 ammo and has many other advantages!
so damage to cap, well we are more than 620% more cap for dmg/sec
and we are just under 30% cap per sec for pulse lasers
so there goes your argument
so we use more cap per gun than AC and do less damage
and we use 30% more cap per gun and do 3% more damage per gun compaired to megapulse. but as u know the MP can hit upto 45km VERy hard where blasters are limited to 15km and realisticly 10km.
any other arguments for me to crush?
you can't compare a pest and a mega gun for gun, they don't have equal amount of guns, for a fair comparison. You're twisting facts otherwhise.
A tempest will do less damage overall with ac's than a megathron with blasters, despite each individual ac having more dps. With same mid-sized gun for each (dual 650mm(EMP) for pest, ion(AM) for mega) the pest does about 18% less unresisted dps(this isn't counting the damage from drones or the optional launchers)
-
phew! dodged the mods on this sig!
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Xune
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Posted - 2006.04.20 06:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yes, now do a comparison of cap vs damage done.
Nice try, but that really dosn't justify the slashing of blaster cap requirements (There are good arguments for it, but not that one).
Maya your working for your "lobby" 24/7 do you ? somehow i get the feeling evrything that is not in the favor of Frigat/ceptors/mimatar is a big no no... evry time i see your face next to a post i know exactly what you will say.
to quote somone " Yea... suprisingly dump isent she?"
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:03:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Vishnej on 20/04/2006 07:04:28
Here's what I want for blasters:
Keep them hard to fit CPU-wise
Keep them hard to fire cap-wise
Keep them hard to bring into battle, range-wise
But make them hit harder than anything else, make them track better, and give a bigger bonus to the harder to fit ones.
Tracking +50% (and bonus +7.5%)
Med damage +5%
Large damage +10%
Ion damage +5%
Neutron damage +10%
Fixing the cap and the CPU and the everything else just turns them into decent "Guns", not decent "Blasters". There's a close parallel with autocannons, and a moderate damage boost is a good fix. It just means that you fit a CPU mod or a cap mod instead of a damage mod.
Contribute to the Eve Wiki |
Morrigan Starlover
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Posted - 2006.04.20 07:15:00 -
[28]
If the dominix had about 6000 more powergrid, then there'd be at least one BS that could make good use of large blasters. 
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Lucus Ranger
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Posted - 2006.04.20 08:04:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Lucus Ranger on 20/04/2006 08:05:15
Edited by: Lucus Ranger on 20/04/2006 08:04:51
What I would like to see is:
 Maybe a base optimal increase of 3-4km on all blasters
Cap usage decreased
CPU on the guns lowered (Small Blasters are fine I think)
Improved tracking (which might be covered with the 5% bonus going to 7.5%, not sure if it will be enough though.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: B0rn2KiLL
Originally by: Dark Shikari
How about:
-10% cap usage on medium blasters
-25% cap usage on large blasters
+10% tracking on medium blasters
+25% tracking on large blasters
-10% CPU usage on medium blasters
-10% CPU usage on large blasters.
/signed
this man knows his blasters
Actually I don't, I can't even fly a megathron and I've only used a blasterrax once in my time in EVE.
But thanks anyways
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
|
Lucus Ranger
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:13:00 -
[31]
lol Dark, and you just about got it right
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Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:18:00 -
[32]
A nice fat reduction in CPU requirements and off comes the co-processor, on goes another magnetic field stabilizer.
Damage boost right there. And it doesnĆt boost the Dominix (no CPU trouble there) in any way, unlike how a flat damage increase to the turrets would.
----------
- Office Linebacker -
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Sniper FC
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:47:00 -
[33]
You what would be better then all these changes???!?!?!
making the Teir 3 gall bs and blaster boat, bonus's of say CPU reduction of x% per gall bs lvl and X% increase to blaster range per gall bs lvl. or a mwd bonus like the thorax!!!
I haven't played with blasters yet, as im still using 425's, but a dedicated blaster bs would be nice :)
-----------------------------------------------
Want to join a fun corp that do most things in eve Join "suicidal" channel and have a chat |
Kaeten
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:03:00 -
[34]
I want more damage on m blasters 
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:33:00 -
[35]
imo one of the biggest problems is trying to fit the 100mn MWD, with its 75CPU and massive cap drains both the 25% penalty and the massive amounts of cap used per burst!
if the CPU on the 100 mn mwd is reduced to 50 and the cap used per cycle is decreased [perhaps to half]
Decrease 100mn MWD cap use by a lot: Decrease its cpu from 75 to 50.
Decrease blasters cap use by 25% [if the mwd gets a massive cut in cap use, if not then this needs to be at lest 50%]
decrease blaster CPU use by 10%]
OR
decrease blaster cpu by 20%
decrease cap by 50-75%
increase tracking somewhat so i can orbit at full speed at my optimal and not miss BS half the time
Another option would be to increase the -5% cap skill to guns to -10% or introduce a second gun cap skill.
this would make sense since the tanking changes useing as much cap as lasers/hybrids do its had a big effect on us.
the u would need to still look at cpu and tracking
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Gronsak
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 11:38:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Gronsak on 20/04/2006 11:38:26
update:
Originally by: Tuxford
This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes.
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Ras Blumin
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 11:41:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gronsak
gun for gun,
AC do more damage than blasters on a tempest!
Isn't that only with high damage t2 ammo?
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
dalman
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 11:48:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Gronsak
gun for gun,
AC do more damage than blasters on a tempest!
Isn't that only with high damage t2 ammo?
AC on tempest gets higher damagemod/time than blaster on mega.
So, yes, with T2 ammo AC do more damage than T2 ammo blaster.
With T1 EMP vs AM, the blasters do 4-7% more DPS than equivalent AC.
But with the stupid fitting reqs on blasters atm one can't really compare them like that, more 'fair' to compare electron vs d650 and ion vs 800 (and then the AC do more damage).
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Hellspawn01
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 11:49:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 20/04/2006 11:50:57
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Dark Shikari
How about:
-10% cap usage on medium blasters
-25% cap usage on large blasters
+10% tracking on medium blasters
+25% tracking on large blasters
-10% CPU usage on medium blasters
-10% CPU usage on large blasters.
even with that deimos cant fit 5x ions, med nos mwd scram web and a med rep
Wrong. You can fit that all to a deimos, you just need Adv. weapon upgrades lvl5 and the right modules. IŚm using such a setup myself.
About the topic, when I look at FarjungŚs movies, I dont understand how you all can complain about blasterthrons. Either he is doing something right or you are doing something wrong.
I fully agree that hybrids use too much cap but the tracking is fine as it is Imo.
Ship lover |
dalman
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
About the topic, when I look at FarjungŚs movies, I dont understand how you all can complain about blasterthrons. Either he is doing something right or you are doing something wrong.
The answer is that his targets are 95% complete n00bs.
I had a fight yesterday that kinda shows what his topic is about.
I myself is maxed out skillpoint-wise to fly a blasterthron. But I don't, as it's complete crap. So, when a blasterthron pilot challenged me for a 1vs1 I gladly accepted:
We started at 5km range (and he had web, so he pretty much got excellent - well aimed hits all the time). As we started so close, he had not fitted any MWD nor AB on his mega - I on the other hand had a MWD on.
With all the fitting that freed up, he had fitted 7x T2 Neutrons with 3x damagemods.
And he still didn't really stand a chance of winning.
(and yes, I was in a 'cheap T2 fitting' and not in my 'pimped' ship and clone)(and yes, he had 5 L T2 drones as well).
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Ras Blumin
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 12:10:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 20/04/2006 12:10:53
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Porro
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 12:10:00 -
[42]
Farjung uses faction mods that use less cpu to get a better fitting on, its the only way to get a decent fit atm.
----------------------------------------------------
(22:01:14) (Sangxianc) you, porro, have madder skillzors than i, sang, do
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Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 12:38:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Porro
Farjung uses faction mods that use less cpu to get a better fitting on, its the only way to get a decent fit atm.
Yup, personly I dont have the isk to spend 300+ per megathron I lose
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
|
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 12:41:00 -
[44]
I hate it when good suggestions are ruined by the people who want OMGWTFPAWNMOBILE!!!111!!1!
You want to fit them easier.
You want it easier to run them.
You want tracking better so you hit + better.
You want damage mod increase...
All those changes together is not a balanced idea, sure Mega should be good close range, but too many changes will just make it a garenteed win. Remember there are two other races ships besides the Mega and Tempest.
CPU decrease and Cap decrease should be good, the ship gets a tracking bonus but from what I see most battles are approach target web + shoot so why the fuss about tracking? Is it just for better hits so you get even more damage that way ?
Once those changes are done see if people can fit the ships better and test them. To many changes creates to many unforseen possibilities.
p.s. I'm guessing because Tempest typically uses more NOS it affects mega's cap more, so if CCP get around to nerfing NOS the mega will gain from that as well as bringing the Domi down to earth.
|
Odda
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 12:52:00 -
[45]
All ho say blasters are balanced watch the last figth in this vid.
You also se how f** owerpower the raven tank are vs the megas
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=320941
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Hellspawn01
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 13:05:00 -
[46]
Can someone do some math about the cap usage of 7x Electrons/Ions/Neutrons plz.
Btw, it would help to reduce the cap usage penalty of close range ammo instead of reducing the cap usage of blasters.
Ship lover |
genes
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 13:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vishnej
Edited by: Vishnej on 20/04/2006 07:39:46
Here's what I want for blasters:
Keep them hard to fit CPU-wise
Keep them hard to fire cap-wise
Keep them hard to bring into battle, range-wise
But make them hit harder than anything else, make them track better, and give a bigger bonus to the harder to fit ones.
Tracking +50% (and bonus +7.5%)
Med damage +5%
Large damage +10%
Ion damage +5%
Neutron damage +10%
Fixing the cap and the CPU and the everything else just turns them into decent "Guns", not decent "Blasters". There's a close parallel with autocannons, and a moderate damage boost is a good fix. It just means that you fit a CPU mod or a cap mod or a nanofiber instead of a damage mod. People appear to find something wrong with fitting auxillery mods, even after the stacking penalty made them useful.
Right now, an AC tempest is about even with a blasterthron in terms of capabilities - it does slightly less damage at slightly greater range. But the fitting is completely off - the blasterthron uses 10x the cap for guns and much more cpu and grid. I say, keep them diverse, don't turn them into autocannons, but change them so that the fitting is worthwhile.
Boosting medium blasters would be the stupidest thing ever.
click
|
Kaffeine
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 15:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: genes
Originally by: Vishnej
Boosting medium blasters would be the stupidest thing ever.
click
That graph is a tad misleading. Most fights don't start at 5k. Also, notice how the Brutix only does max damage at like 0k from opponent.
|
infraX
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 15:32:00 -
[49]
Assume I am talking about Tech II guns throughout.
Large blasters use far too much CPU and Capacitor when considering you need to fit an MWD and Heavy Cap Injector in order to use them A) at their intended range. and B) for a length of time that will allow you to kill something and perhaps run a bit of a tank at the same time.
You kind of also need 2 large armour reps to be on par with the tanks of most other battleships.
The megathron as today's leading blaster battleship does not have enough CPU (even with maxed out skills) to fit all this stuff. It's not doable with even the smallest and least damaging of the large blaster class (electrons). Forget about videos you have seen - Farjung is using an extremely expensive (faction) loadout in his movies and although he manages to fit all the modules I am talking about, he is STILL only using Electron Blaster Cannon II's (the worst) in his setup.
I'm not asking to be able to fit Neutron II's with an insane tank and 2 damage mods and all the rest of it, but it would be nice to be able to attempt a decent setup with Ion II's - but at the moment, it's NOT even doable with Electron II's.
I know I've probably repeated what others have already said, but I think it needs to be said as many times, as many different ways as possible so that something gets done about it.
Large blasters definitely need a CPU nerf and possibly even a slight Cap nerf (considering they use ammow ASWELL and use MORE cap than lasers - once you take into account Amarrian ship bonii). Hopefully the tracking buff that the Megathron is due to receive will fix the tracking and damage issues faced. (are any other ships getting a tracking buff too? - will this make them better than they are now and so the Megathron will STILL be behind in tracking, even with a new buff?)
It would be nice to get a Dev response on this thread, as they have confirmed they were 'looking at' CPU usage on large blasters, but nothing has been mentioned for a while nor confirmed.
|
Kyguard
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 15:36:00 -
[50]
The damage on blasters is fine tbh. However, the cap usage, tracking, and cpu req need to be fixed.
But ffs, keep the damage the same. They already wtfpwn most things.
God is on the side with the best artillery.
|
genes
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 16:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kaffeine
Originally by: genes
Originally by: Vishnej
Boosting medium blasters would be the stupidest thing ever.
click
That graph is a tad misleading. Most fights don't start at 5k. Also, notice how the Brutix only does max damage at like 0k from opponent.
Correct! And that why the brutix can easily fit an mwd and a cap injector so it can BBQ any other bc even tho they dont start close to eachother.
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Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 16:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: genes
Correct! And that why the brutix can easily fit an mwd and a cap injector so it can BBQ any other bc even tho they dont start close to eachother.
An MWD doesn't make the Brutix fast. A brutix is never fast
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
|
Farjung
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 17:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Can someone do some math about the cap usage of 7x Electrons/Ions/Neutrons plz.
Btw, it would help to reduce the cap usage penalty of close range ammo instead of reducing the cap usage of blasters.
Formatting might come out a bit screwy ;|. Assumed relevant skills: rapid firing 5, controlled bursts 5, gunnery 5 (ofc). Reload is not factored in.
Null has same cap usage as AM
No damage mods: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 24.3 / 19.4
7 Ion II: 27.0 / 21.6
7 Neutron II: 30.1 / 24.1
1 t2 damage mod: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 27.2 / 21.7
7 Ion II: 30.2 / 24.1
7 Neutron II: 33.6 / 26.9
2 t2 damage mods: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 29.9 / 23.9
7 Ion II: 33.2 / 26.6
7 Neutron II: 37.1 / 29.7
Just to put that in perspective, a heavy diminishing nos drains 10 cap/s, a large armor repairer II drains 35.6 cap/s.
---
Reckless
Wave of Mutilation |
Zysco
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 17:22:00 -
[54]
rofl... so a neutron II, with 2 damage mods and void, uses more cap/sec than a LARGE REP II. AND WE HAVE 7 GUNS.
New Petition Inc Vid |
Wizie
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 17:29:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Zysco
rofl... so a neutron II, with 2 damage mods and void, uses more cap/sec than a LARGE REP II. AND WE HAVE 7 GUNS.
OMG Drunkeh.. read again. its 7 guns use that much cap :p Still kinda ghey.
|
Toksin
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 17:51:00 -
[56]
How about this...
Reduce CPU usage of each gun by 4-8 CPU per. On a 7 gun setup, that would clear 28-56 CPU up. Which can make a difference.
+
Reduce Cap usage by 3-7 on each gun. This would make a nice difference.
+
Increase Large Blaster damage by 5%.
That's all. Tracking, IMO, is fine, with a web. Maybe I'm wrong. But, I think that those 3 things, in conjuction, could boost the Mega enough to make it viable, but not OMGWTF boost'D.
---------------
My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 17:59:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Zysco
rofl... so a neutron II, with 2 damage mods and void, uses more cap/sec than a LARGE REP II. AND WE HAVE 7 GUNS.
Well i did calculate once that neutrons II + void use half the cap that xl booster use(maybe t2, don't remember). And they cry how they cannot permatank. WTF i want to be able to permashoot only.
Die, die, die. |
Wizie
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 18:53:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Toksin
How about this...
Reduce CPU usage of each gun by 4-8 CPU per. On a 7 gun setup, that would clear 28-56 CPU up. Which can make a difference.
+
Reduce Cap usage by 3-7 on each gun. This would make a nice difference.
+
Increase Large Blaster damage by 5%.
That's all. Tracking, IMO, is fine, with a web. Maybe I'm wrong. But, I think that those 3 things, in conjuction, could boost the Mega enough to make it viable, but not OMGWTF boost'D.
CPU/Cap reduction is good... Dmg increase isn't needed. Tracking bonus will def help.
|
Xune
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 18:55:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Farjung
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Can someone do some math about the cap usage of 7x Electrons/Ions/Neutrons plz.
Btw, it would help to reduce the cap usage penalty of close range ammo instead of reducing the cap usage of blasters.
Formatting might come out a bit screwy ;|. Assumed relevant skills: rapid firing 5, controlled bursts 5, gunnery 5 (ofc). Reload is not factored in.
Null has same cap usage as AM
No damage mods: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 24.3 / 19.4
7 Ion II: 27.0 / 21.6
7 Neutron II: 30.1 / 24.1
1 t2 damage mod: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 27.2 / 21.7
7 Ion II: 30.2 / 24.1
7 Neutron II: 33.6 / 26.9
2 t2 damage mods: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 29.9 / 23.9
7 Ion II: 33.2 / 26.6
7 Neutron II: 37.1 / 29.7
Just to put that in perspective, a heavy diminishing nos drains 10 cap/s, a large armor repairer II drains 35.6 cap/s.
you know what sucks ? i did that calculation before and no one lissend to me :( i realy need to get myself a name :P
*purrŚs and snuggles up to Far*
cant you please sneak my name into your next video somehow so i get famous too ? ^^
|
Wizie
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 19:03:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Xune
Originally by: Farjung
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Can someone do some math about the cap usage of 7x Electrons/Ions/Neutrons plz.
Btw, it would help to reduce the cap usage penalty of close range ammo instead of reducing the cap usage of blasters.
Formatting might come out a bit screwy ;|. Assumed relevant skills: rapid firing 5, controlled bursts 5, gunnery 5 (ofc). Reload is not factored in.
Null has same cap usage as AM
No damage mods: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 24.3 / 19.4
7 Ion II: 27.0 / 21.6
7 Neutron II: 30.1 / 24.1
1 t2 damage mod: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 27.2 / 21.7
7 Ion II: 30.2 / 24.1
7 Neutron II: 33.6 / 26.9
2 t2 damage mods: Void (cap/s) / Null (cap/s)
7 Electron II: 29.9 / 23.9
7 Ion II: 33.2 / 26.6
7 Neutron II: 37.1 / 29.7
Just to put that in perspective, a heavy diminishing nos drains 10 cap/s, a large armor repairer II drains 35.6 cap/s.
you know what sucks ? i did that calculation before and no one lissend to me :( i realy need to get myself a name :P
*purrŚs and snuggles up to Far*
cant you please sneak my name into your next video somehow so i get famous too ? ^^
Get lost Xune.. I had to pay him with a free oral job and a Vindicator.... I earned that spot in his Vid.
|
Xune
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 19:04:00 -
[61]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Careful waht you nerf, else we'll have 7 TII neutron blasterboats running around permatanking the sentrys
As cool as that would be, the balance would go out the window. CPU needs addresing, but Cap doesn't imo. Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to make a cyclotron work, or to pulse a railguns magnetic thinigmbobbies?
I thought not.
you cant be serius.. look at FarŚs or mine calculation.. and then think once more.. and if you still dont understand think once more... still dont get it ? ok once more......
|
Xune
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 19:07:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Wizie
Originally by: Xune
Originally by: Farjung
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Get lost Xune.. I had to pay him with a free oral job and a Vindicator.... I earned that spot in his Vid.
I know him longer :P hes my cuddle pillow !
|
mirel yirrin
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 19:27:00 -
[63]
*huggles Xune*
I'm rambling, ignore meh
---------------------------------
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Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 19:41:00 -
[64]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Careful waht you nerf, else we'll have 7 TII neutron blasterboats running around permatanking the sentrys
As cool as that would be, the balance would go out the window. CPU needs addresing, but Cap doesn't imo. Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to make a cyclotron work, or to pulse a railguns magnetic thinigmbobbies?
I thought not.
if you think the cap is fine then your wrong
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 19:52:00 -
[65]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Careful waht you nerf, else we'll have 7 TII neutron blasterboats running around permatanking the sentrys
As cool as that would be, the balance would go out the window. CPU needs addresing, but Cap doesn't imo. Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to make a cyclotron work, or to pulse a railguns magnetic thinigmbobbies?
I thought not.
So why can minmater/caldari have it?
Die, die, die. |
Farjung
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 20:18:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Xune
Originally by: Wizie
Get lost Xune.. I had to pay him with a free oral job and a Vindicator.... I earned that spot in his Vid.
I know him longer :P hes my cuddle pillow !
lol, I actually knew Wizie before we started playing EVE, but I'll still be your cuddle pillow ;p.
---
Reckless
Wave of Mutilation |
Xune
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 20:22:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Farjung
Originally by: Xune
Originally by: Wizie
Get lost Xune.. I had to pay him with a free oral job and a Vindicator.... I earned that spot in his Vid.
I know him longer :P hes my cuddle pillow !
lol, I actually knew Wizie before we started playing EVE, but I'll still be your cuddle pillow ;p.
that was pretty close Farjung.. you made me sob already.... was close to burst in tearŚs... could hand you some of the few bs kill fraps stuff i have and you get that into your movie ? since right now with all the pc problems i might never get enough decent footage :\
hm... damm.. im spamming the forums AAAAAAAAAAA need to go to bed and stop drinking.
|
Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 20:43:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Farjung
Originally by: Xune
Originally by: Wizie
Get lost Xune.. I had to pay him with a free oral job and a Vindicator.... I earned that spot in his Vid.
I know him longer :P hes my cuddle pillow !
lol, I actually knew Wizie before we started playing EVE, but I'll still be your cuddle pillow ;p.
you get xune and I get wizie how does that sound?
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
|
Farjung
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 21:52:00 -
[69]
I say we cut them both in two and take half each 
---
Reckless
Wave of Mutilation |
Xune
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 21:52:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Farjung
Originally by: Xune
Originally by: Wizie
Get lost Xune.. I had to pay him with a free oral job and a Vindicator.... I earned that spot in his Vid.
I know him longer :P hes my cuddle pillow !
lol, I actually knew Wizie before we started playing EVE, but I'll still be your cuddle pillow ;p.
you get xune and I get wizie how does that sound?
we forget about Wizie and i get you both ? *PURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*
|
Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 21:55:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Farjung
I say we cut them both in two and take half each
deal
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
|
Mazad
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:02:00 -
[72]
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
|
Xune
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:09:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
so all those long year blaster pilots are wrong but your not ? your not an alt from Maya are you ?
|
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:12:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hmm... ok... so if you can barely fit a decent tank and a rack of the lightest blasters with maxed out skills, what does that make your comment? And with decent damage - I should bloody hope so since we are talking about a ship that's nowhere near fast, but still needs to get closer than a railgun-fitted frigate to do damage.
But there's no point going into detail. I'd just try to repeat several hundred posts of arguments again.
Latest EVE musing (MC-boards) |
Ti anna
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:30:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Ti anna on 20/04/2006 22:32:52
I think the main problem with large blasters is threefold.
1. They take way too much Cap to fire!
2. They need to have better tracking than they do on a Mega.
3. This is something that I feel is the core of their problem, they need to have an adjustment to their accuracy (sig radius for hitting, how well they hit etc...).
A blaster should not have a problem hitting for normal to wrecking shots when their targets are in the optimal range (as long as they are not exceeding their tracking capability). I noticed that they have a tendency to produce a lot of barely hits and glancing shots, even when at optimal and the target is barely moving.
|
Mazad
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:32:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Mazad on 20/04/2006 22:33:26
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hmm... ok... so if you can barely fit a decent tank and a rack of the lightest blasters with maxed out skills, what does that make your comment? And with decent damage - I should bloody hope so since we are talking about a ship that's nowhere near fast, but still needs to get closer than a railgun-fitted frigate to do damage.
But there's no point going into detail. I'd just try to repeat several hundred posts of arguments again.
If you can only 'barely' fit a decent tank and the lightest blasters with maxed out skills - I would suggest you're doing something very wrong, or you don't have maxed out skills.
|
Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:38:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Mazad
Edited by: Mazad on 20/04/2006 22:33:26
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hmm... ok... so if you can barely fit a decent tank and a rack of the lightest blasters with maxed out skills, what does that make your comment? And with decent damage - I should bloody hope so since we are talking about a ship that's nowhere near fast, but still needs to get closer than a railgun-fitted frigate to do damage.
But there's no point going into detail. I'd just try to repeat several hundred posts of arguments again.
If you can only 'barely' fit a decent tank and the lightest blasters with maxed out skills - I would suggest you're doing something very wrong, or you don't have maxed out skills.
No, its why the ship is getting boosted, why would so many people lie about it?
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
|
Toksin
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:39:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
There's no way this guy is serious. No way. Sorry. He's got to be an alt just flaming.
If he is serious....
---------------
My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
Xune
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:53:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Mazad
Edited by: Mazad on 20/04/2006 22:33:26
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hmm... ok... so if you can barely fit a decent tank and a rack of the lightest blasters with maxed out skills, what does that make your comment? And with decent damage - I should bloody hope so since we are talking about a ship that's nowhere near fast, but still needs to get closer than a railgun-fitted frigate to do damage.
But there's no point going into detail. I'd just try to repeat several hundred posts of arguments again.
If you can only 'barely' fit a decent tank and the lightest blasters with maxed out skills - I would suggest you're doing something very wrong, or you don't have maxed out skills.
you sir... have no idear.. you ever flyed a Mega ? i think telling Ithildin he has no skills or dont know how to fit a Mega is like telling a Cat that she has no idear how to lik-groom her fur.
|
Spartan239
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 22:57:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Xune
Originally by: Mazad
Edited by: Mazad on 20/04/2006 22:33:26
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hmm... ok... so if you can barely fit a decent tank and a rack of the lightest blasters with maxed out skills, what does that make your comment? And with decent damage - I should bloody hope so since we are talking about a ship that's nowhere near fast, but still needs to get closer than a railgun-fitted frigate to do damage.
But there's no point going into detail. I'd just try to repeat several hundred posts of arguments again.
If you can only 'barely' fit a decent tank and the lightest blasters with maxed out skills - I would suggest you're doing something very wrong, or you don't have maxed out skills.
you sir... have no idear.. you ever flyed a Mega ? i think telling Ithildin he has no skills or dont know how to fit a Mega is like telling a Cat that she has no idear how to lik-groom her fur.
thats so cute, im sure kayo loves you
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
|
Mazad
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Posted - 2006.04.20 23:01:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Toksin
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
There's no way this guy is serious. No way. Sorry. He's got to be an alt just flaming.
If he is serious....
@ you!
Quoting from your bio:
2006.03.28 23:28:01 combat Your Neutron Blaster Cannon I perfectly strikes Caladai (Armageddon), wrecking for 931.4 damage.
So you'd want 7 of these (or even t2 with t2 ammo) fitted with a full armor tank and t2 large drones?
Who uses vanilla T1 guns for pvp anyway? No wonder you're complaining!!!
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.04.20 23:12:00 -
[82]
Edited by: dalman on 20/04/2006 23:12:56
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hi dear Mazad.
Can you please help me out?
Tell me which skills I need to train to be a good blastherthron pilot.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Mazad
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Posted - 2006.04.20 23:14:00 -
[83]
Originally by: dalman
Edited by: dalman on 20/04/2006 23:12:56
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hi dear Mazad.
Can you please help me out?
Tell me which skills I need to train to be a good blastherthron pilot.
If you have to ask, you'll never be one.
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Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.04.20 23:17:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Mazad
Originally by: dalman
Edited by: dalman on 20/04/2006 23:12:56
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hi dear Mazad.
Can you please help me out?
Tell me which skills I need to train to be a good blastherthron pilot.
If you have to ask, you'll never be one.
so Itildin and Dalman arent good bt pilots geuss Dreez and Axel suck aswell
I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Dragonball Z> all other anime
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slip66
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Posted - 2006.04.20 23:27:00 -
[85]
Sure the blasters need a slight tweak. I still think your main problem is your trying to make the blasterthron into a solo pwn mobile that can do it all. Your asking the ship to do huge dmg, web, warp scramble, mwd and possibly tank to some degree.
Isnt that asking for alittle bit too much?
Originally by: StOrM ViPeR
Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
slip66
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Posted - 2006.04.20 23:30:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Mazad
Originally by: dalman
Edited by: dalman on 20/04/2006 23:12:56
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hi dear Mazad.
Can you please help me out?
Tell me which skills I need to train to be a good blastherthron pilot.
If you have to ask, you'll never be one.
this is pvp not pve...
Originally by: StOrM ViPeR
Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.21 01:16:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Gronsak on 21/04/2006 01:16:15
Originally by: slip66
Sure the blasters need a slight tweak. I still think your main problem is your trying to make the blasterthron into a solo pwn mobile that can do it all. Your asking the ship to do huge dmg, web, warp scramble, mwd and possibly tank to some degree.
Isnt that asking for alittle bit too much?
i understand what your trying to say, but think of this
a torp raven beats a blasterthron no matter the start range! and on top of that the raven can hit upto as far as it can lock! where a BT is prety much limited to 15km and really u need to be within 10km [that means eiter nerf the raven or boost the emga]
a AC tempest has the ability to fit x large reppers, 2x damage mods, 6 of its medium guns AND two large nos. on top of that its got 5 mid slots giving it a nice utility slot [extra web or scram or ew or what ever!] it is the most blasterthron like ship ingame, its got a lower sig [very important specily vs ravens] its faster, it can fit a great tank and do good damage, it can choose damage type! very easy to fit both cpu and pg wise, its guns use no cap. advantage of a BT over a tempest [its does some more damage, which can be negated somewhat by the tempest ability to chosoe dmg type] so if we have to give up all of the above for a damage increase then something is wrong
a pulse gedden has the ability to hit out upto 50km with t1 ammo useing pulse so i dont know if it should be considered in the same group, but again, same DPS as a blasterthron, but with the very powerfull ability to hit upto 50km, its got les sig and its guns use less cap, its also easier to fit than a BT, able to fit 7guns + tank + decent mids
so its eiter boost the mega [in a non crital game chaging kind of way, ie cap use and cpu ect] or nerf all the otehr "close range" bs. tbh i wouldnt mind seeing AC/pulse/torp launchers requirments as harsh as blasters. that too would be a way to balance things
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Kyguard
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Posted - 2006.04.21 01:28:00 -
[88]
Yeah torp raven needs some adjustments as well.
It's ridiculous that 3x Large Rep I can't tank T2 torps... freaking unbelievable. So Gronsak, try not to compare the BT to a Raven in 1v1, it's just simply wrong 
Any other ship is fine, but the torp Raven goes under the special category.
God is on the side with the best artillery.
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Toksin
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Posted - 2006.04.21 02:36:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Mazad
Edited by: Mazad on 20/04/2006 22:33:26
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Mazad
The Blasterthron isn't broken.
When you fit a Thron you fit a combination of blasters depending on your skills and the modules you're using. The more skills you have, the more 'high dmg' blasters you can fit.
You're supposed to fit a combination of blaster types...and yes you can do good damage and tank.
Hmm... ok... so if you can barely fit a decent tank and a rack of the lightest blasters with maxed out skills, what does that make your comment? And with decent damage - I should bloody hope so since we are talking about a ship that's nowhere near fast, but still needs to get closer than a railgun-fitted frigate to do damage.
But there's no point going into detail. I'd just try to repeat several hundred posts of arguments again.
If you can only 'barely' fit a decent tank and the lightest blasters with maxed out skills - I would suggest you're doing something very wrong, or you don't have maxed out skills.
Please give us your setup. If, as I think, you're using QuickFit to determine how good the BT is, then we'll know, and we can ignore you. If, perhaps, you have figured something out that NO OTHER BT pilot, no matter how good has, then we'll learn something. So, enlighten us.
---------------
My views do not reflect the views of my corp, or my own views. |
genes
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Posted - 2006.04.21 11:48:00 -
[90]
Geddon with mega pulse II and multifreq use more cap/s then a mega with neutron IIs and antimatter, and thats with maxed out skills. Why are you saying it doesnt?
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.21 12:04:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Gronsak on 21/04/2006 12:05:33
Originally by: genes
Geddon with mega pulse II and multifreq use more cap/s then a mega with neutron IIs and antimatter, and thats with maxed out skills. Why are you saying it doesnt?
with bs lvl 5 the laser fires faster so uses more cap per sec [and that is only on a gedden, on a a apoc its different!]
a neutron blaster cannon t2 uses 26 cap a sec
a mega pulse t2 uses 26.666 cap a second, so you use about 0.66 cap a second, but u have the advantage of being able to hit upto 50km away where we max out at 15km and really need to be withion 10km for decent damaagge.
not to mention you are always fighting in optiaml while we are always fighting in falloff giving us yet less damage
edit: on an apoc the megapulse uses less cap than neutron t2, infact neutron t2 uses 30% more cap!
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Emsigma
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Posted - 2006.04.21 12:45:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Mazad
If you can only 'barely' fit a decent tank and the lightest blasters with maxed out skills - I would suggest you're doing something very wrong, or you don't have maxed out skills.
You can fit a semi good damage ship with a good tank with perfect fitting skills and if you use only faction gear and electron blaster t2.
To be honest I rather think that you have never really tried to use a blasterthron for PvP yourself but are talking about NPC, which of course is 200 times easier to fit for.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:01:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Emsigma
Originally by: Mazad
If you can only 'barely' fit a decent tank and the lightest blasters with maxed out skills - I would suggest you're doing something very wrong, or you don't have maxed out skills.
You can fit a semi good damage ship with a good tank with perfect fitting skills and if you use only faction gear and electron blaster t2.
To be honest I rather think that you have never really tried to use a blasterthron for PvP yourself but are talking about NPC, which of course is 200 times easier to fit for.
Npcing in blasterthron is waste of time unless you have vindicator or home system with cap charges. Rails 4tw.
Die, die, die. |
Nebuli
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:16:00 -
[94]
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Emsigma
Originally by: Mazad
If you can only 'barely' fit a decent tank and the lightest blasters with maxed out skills - I would suggest you're doing something very wrong, or you don't have maxed out skills.
You can fit a semi good damage ship with a good tank with perfect fitting skills and if you use only faction gear and electron blaster t2.
To be honest I rather think that you have never really tried to use a blasterthron for PvP yourself but are talking about NPC, which of course is 200 times easier to fit for.
Npcing in blasterthron is waste of time unless you have vindicator or home system with cap charges. Rails 4tw.
Nah not vs Angels its not, they mwd up to you so..
6 Neutrons, 1 Ion, large Nos,
100mn a/b, web, 2 cap chargers,
Large repper II, 2 explosive, 1 kinetic hardner then cprs works wonders tbh, dont need cap booster so no worrys of charges.
Back on topic though when you can fit a ship with tech I blasters and can get a much better set up than using tech II blasters it kinda says it all.
Alot of the videos you will watch will have people using Tech I blasters, this is for a reason and its not due to lack of skills, its because with tech II its nigh on impossible to get a decent set up, I myself use tech II, but thats only because I've trained to use them and I'm stubborn like that lol.
But if I'm honest I prefer my Tech I blaster set up
CEO - Art of War |
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.04.21 17:13:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Epsilon 1
Give amarr explosive damage
hell no
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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