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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
43
   |
Posted - 2014.03.05 19:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am not in a WH corp.
I am not living inside a WH with a permanent POS
I am spending weeks in a WH at a time, pvp/pve
Maybe i am missing something very obvious here, as i am not part of WH corp, but what's with the 'a', 'b' notation for the WH BMs that everyone seems to use?
First C5 from your root is called "C5a"
Second C5 from your root is called "C5b"
Third C5 from your root is called "C5c"
OK, fair enough, although i'd think "C51", "C52", "C53" makes more sense, but i get the appeal of a letter being more visually distinctive from the WH class. I know that "20" is the 20th system in the chain. I don't remember from the top of my head what sequential number letter "U" belongs to.
Now, what happens when there are 2 C5 WHs in your system? Which one becomes "a", which one becomes "b"? How do i now BM the 2 different "branches"? Do i continue with "C5a", "C5b" into each branch? So now i have 2 "C5bs" in 2 different branches.
Finally, what i really don't get is why will the next C3 become a C3a? "It's 'a' cause it's the first C3 in this chain" what i've been told.
So: C5a, C5b, C5c, C3a, C5d
How does: "a, b, c, a, d" make any kind of sequential sense? Not only do i have to go back and look at how many existing C5s or C3s i have in the chain just to name this, but do i really care that this is the "first C3" after the last 3 C5s?
Which brings me to the important question:
 What is the goal of the WH BM naming convention?
- Is it to uniquely identify each system? (In which case, the C5a, C5b doesn't work when you are facing 2 starting branches)
- Or is it to facilitate easy return back to home system? (In which case "a, b, c, a, d" doesn't help at all to identify where in the chain you are)
I must be missing something very obvious here, cause everyone seems to use this, so much so that Tripwire tool is accommodating this naming convention |
Kalel Nimrott
Sky Fighters
897
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 19:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
I dont use the C.
My opinions are not my own. They come from the consensus of my corp. So, suck it. |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
244
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 19:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its to name each wh uniquely. If you have 2 different branches name them c5a c5b c5c c5d. To denote the way home we use ! i.e. !c5a
You just name the whs as you scan them so theres no rhyme or reason to it other then its easier to say 'get to c2c orca to gank!' then get to J125643
Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2053
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 20:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Honestly, that seems confusing to me. Our method is much simpler. |
Wafflehead
Hurricane Research
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 20:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Wormholes leading away from "home" would be bookmarked as:
.[ABC] WH: C5
Wormholes leading to "home" would be bookmarked as:
*[ABC] WH: Home
This way the way back is always at the top. I use the notes in the bookmark to drag the J number from the client into the bookmark. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2053
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 21:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wafflehead wrote:Wormholes leading away from "home" would be bookmarked as:
.[ABC] WH: C5
Wormholes leading to "home" would be bookmarked as:
*[ABC] WH: Home
This way the way back is always at the top. I use the notes in the bookmark to drag the J number from the client into the bookmark.
we do similar except
ABC and
(ABC)
Always follow the ( ) sigs home, they stay on top, and less to type. |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 21:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ok so the system we use is super simple.
You have a home system, that is the system of your origin and one you always start with. For us its Banana, a c5 system with H296 static (c5).
So the naming convention goes: Banana -> Static
Chain looks like: Banana -> Static
If that static has a c5 connected to it then the bookmark is called: Static ->c5a
But the chain looks like: Banana -> Static -> c5a
If our static has a second c5 connected to it then the bookmark will be: Static ->c5b
But the chain will look like:
Banana ->Static -> c5a
....................V
..................c5b
Basically the second letter in the naming convention of c5 systems is the order in which its found within the chain. Its just keeps on going. Any c5 that opens into Banana (basically we are their static) goes in the reverse order starting with c5z. So if someone on comms yells for people to go to c5x for a fight then they know they need to go into the offchain and not through the static. So a chain can look like this:
...................................................................................c2a
.....................................................................................^
...........c3z..................................................................c5c
.............^......................................................................^
c5y <- c5z <- Banana ->Static -> c5a -> c3a -> c3b - > lowsec
..v........................................................v
.c2z...................................................c5b -> nullsec
The goal of the naming conventions is to give Bookmarks the same unique names as you would to the system in your mapping application. It allows your corp/alliance members to quickly look up which system they need to go to.
Oh and the other concept is return bookmarks. We use a simple self-centered system. All wormholes lead to Banana. Meaning that any and every return bookmark is not named and is simply labeled as "wormhole". If you want to get back you simply warp to all the ones with that name.
P.S. Last bit I want to address towards k-space naming. Follow the idea that laziness is your friend, if the system has one null sec then leave the BM named as c5a -> null, or c5a -> low. If it has more then one exit of same type then you name them with the Region name, if they have more then one exit to the same region then you give system name. |
Chad Wylder
Bogus Brothers Corporation
Illusion of Solitude
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 22:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
We've been using the letters to denote the distance from the root system.
So a = 1 jump away, b = 2 jumps away, etc. Then a second number is added at the end to differentiate WHs that would otherwise be named the same. You can also leave off the "c." So an example would be:
Root --> 2a1 --> Hb1
....|..........|................
...V.........V...............
.2a2......1b1 --> Hc1
2a1 is a C2 that is a(1) jump from the root system, and is the first 2a found.
2a2 is a C2 that is a(1) jump from the root system and is the second 2a found.
1b1 is a C1 that is b(2) jumps from the root system and is the first 1b found.
Hb1 is a Highsec that is b(2) jumps from the root system and is the first Hb found.
Hc1 is a Highsec that is c(3) jumps from the root system and is the first Hc found. |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 22:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Chad Wylder wrote:We've been using the letters to denote the distance from the root system.
So a = 1 jump away, b = 2 jumps away, etc. Then a second number is added at the end to differentiate WHs that would otherwise be named the same. You can also leave off the "c." So an example would be:
Root --> 2a1 --> Hb1
....|..........|................
...V.........V...............
.2a2......1b1 --> Hc1
2a1 is a C2 that is a(1) jump from the root system, and is the first 2a found.
2a2 is a C2 that is a(1) jump from the root system and is the second 2a found.
1b1 is a C1 that is b(2) jumps from the root system and is the first 1b found.
Hb1 is a Highsec that is b(2) jumps from the root system and is the first Hb found.
Hc1 is a Highsec that is c(3) jumps from the root system and is the first Hc found.
Serious question, is there any benefit or advantage in knowing the distance of the system from your home system?
|
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters
3065
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 22:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
People over complicate WH BM naming to all sorts of stupid ends.
BMs need to be unique only within a single system, NOT chain wide.
Oh, youre scanning a system and there are 3 C5s, a C3 and a NS?
Your BMs only need to look like this:
C5 In
C5
C5a
C3
NS
The BM tagged 'In' always denotes the route back towards home.
Here one of the C5s needs a lable since there are 2 unmarked ones.
The C3 and NS do not need lables since there is only 1 of each.
If youre too lazy to remember which hole you jumped into you can add the last 3 numbers of the target J sig to the BM name:
C5 (123)
C5a (456)
You never need the from system in the BM, it's the system youre in, really NOT very hard to figure out.
You also never need the sig ID in the BM, you just don't.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2053
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 22:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:People over complicate WH BM naming to all sorts of stupid ends.
BMs need to be unique only within a single system, NOT chain wide.
Oh, youre scanning a system and there are 3 C5s, a C3 and a NS?
Your BMs only need to look like this:
C5 In
C5
C5a
C3
NS
The BM tagged 'In' always denotes the route back towards home.
Here one of the C5s needs a lable since there are 2 unmarked ones.
The C3 and NS do not need lables since there is only 1 of each.
If youre too lazy to remember which hole you jumped into you can add the last 3 numbers of the target J sig to the BM name:
C5 (123)
C5a (456)
You never need the from system in the BM, it's the system youre in, really NOT very hard to figure out.
You also never need the sig ID in the BM, you just don't.
That system still is too complicated. But it's better than the crazy BS over engineered systems above you.
|
Daimian Mercer
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 22:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Easier then everything above...
Use Tripwire - it does it all for you and can be customized to do any of the above formats.
Just add a wormhole and Tripwire tells you what to do for your bookmarks.
BM customizing |
MadbaM
Hard Knocks Inc.
64
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Your all so so wrong in your naming, your ideas are so over engineering and pron to aberrant readings.
This is the system i highly recommend you adopt:
First of you should dispense with letters and numbers, instead use star signs to indicate the class of a WH that's what there there for right?
GÖê - Aries class 1
GÖë - Taurus class 2
GÖè - Gemini class 3
GÖï - Cancer class 4
GÖî - Leo class 5
GÖì - Virgo class 6
Each chain has its own greek letter, so your static will be +¦ (Alpha chain) and any new WH into home system gets its own designation +ƒ ( beta) +ô (Gamma) you get it.
Then you need a connection so say your new static has a GÖî (leo) (Class5) connection this would be BM as +¦GÖî, if there is more than one you should use roman numerals as not to confuse people with the J-numbers of the wh's themselves.
So your second leo hole down your beta chain should read as follows: +ƒGÖîGàá --> +ƒGÖîGàí, so an Fc would call on comm's for people to meet on Beta / Leo / ii IN Beta / Leo / i.
All WH's leading home should be book marked by a fraction depending how close to home you are, so if your one jump out the return would be -+ if your 4 jumps out the return should be -+ and so on.
This system us fool proof and you should all adopt it tomorrow.
|
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:People over complicate WH BM naming to all sorts of stupid ends.
BMs need to be unique only within a single system, NOT chain wide.
Oh, youre scanning a system and there are 3 C5s, a C3 and a NS?
Your BMs only need to look like this:
C5 In
C5
C5a
C3
NS
The BM tagged 'In' always denotes the route back towards home.
Here one of the C5s needs a lable since there are 2 unmarked ones.
The C3 and NS do not need lables since there is only 1 of each.
If youre too lazy to remember which hole you jumped into you can add the last 3 numbers of the target J sig to the BM name:
C5 (123)
C5a (456)
You never need the from system in the BM, it's the system youre in, really NOT very hard to figure out.
You also never need the sig ID in the BM, you just don't.
Sorry but no, when I ping on comms or in intel channel that we have a fight in c5d, I dont want to explain how to get there. I also don't want to explain where to wait or where to form. Thus its helpful to have source > dest system because I only need to say "form up on c5d in c5c" when they select c5c -> c5d bm they know that they have arrived at the destination. You can also have multiple nullsec into the same region, you really want to have Source > Dest if you need to share or manage that BM.
|
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Daimian Mercer wrote:Easier then everything above... Use Tripwire - it does it all for you and can be customized to do any of the above formats. Just add a wormhole and Tripwire tells you what to do for your bookmarks. BM customizing
Sometimes an added layer of complexity is a good thing, if I see that someone can't figure out BM naming and Siggy then its probably time for them to go back to k-space. |
Daimian Mercer
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Daimian Mercer wrote:Easier then everything above... Use Tripwire - it does it all for you and can be customized to do any of the above formats. Just add a wormhole and Tripwire tells you what to do for your bookmarks. BM customizing Sometimes an added layer of complexity is a good thing, if I see that someone can't figure out BM naming and Siggy then its probably time for them to go back to k-space.
Are you one of those people that think all websites should still require www. because it is good for them to know that they are going to access the World Wide Web? |
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
144
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
I just use full J name on opposite end of the hole. Its simple because default bookmark is also always J name and this way i can always see where each hole will put me. |
Nelly Uanos
Quebec's Underdog League
Quebec United Legions
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 00:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:People over complicate WH BM naming to all sorts of stupid ends.
BMs need to be unique only within a single system, NOT chain wide.
Oh, youre scanning a system and there are 3 C5s, a C3 and a NS?
Your BMs only need to look like this:
C5 In
C5
C5a
C3
NS
The BM tagged 'In' always denotes the route back towards home.
Here one of the C5s needs a lable since there are 2 unmarked ones.
The C3 and NS do not need lables since there is only 1 of each.
Our kinda look like that.
Wormhole (direction for home)
C5
C5-2
C5-3
NS
As for comm, we have a website with mapping, we just use the system name (JXXXXXX) or if the chain isn't very long or complicated we sometime say the C2 after the static or something like that.
|
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
1173
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 01:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Using a mapper pretty much makes putting where you are in the bm useless. Jacks system of simply putting where you are going is easy. The only issues I have found with it is when you lose part of your chain. The time it takes to sort out which BMs are still good sucks. lol
No trolling please |
Sari Jasra
Sky Fighters
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 03:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:People over complicate WH BM naming to all sorts of stupid ends.
BMs need to be unique only within a single system, NOT chain wide.
This would explain why the parts of the chain Jack scans always seem to have totally random names on the bookmarks rather than the corp's naming scheme. |
Chad Wylder
Bogus Brothers Corporation
Illusion of Solitude
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 04:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Serious question, is there any benefit or advantage in knowing the distance of the system from your home system?
It's easier to quickly get a mental picture of where the wh is located in relation to the rest of the chain, and it adds a layer of continuity that's based on the layout of the chain itself, rather than the order people scan the chain down. (Obviously the bms can still be affected by the order whs are scanned down, just not for every single wh.) Also the "return" wh is automatically sorted out with this system, since it's the letter closest to "a." (As in, if there's a bunch of "d" bookmarks and one "b" then the b would lead towards home)
Of course if you're using some sort of external chain mapping system then I don't think it's that important, but I like it.
And with all that said, I don't really have experience with a bookmarking convention before this one, so I don't know how much advantage this provides over something simpler. I really haven't found it to be complex though. |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 05:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Daimian Mercer wrote:
Are you one of those people that think all websites should still require www. because it is good for them to know that they are going to access the World Wide Web?
No, but I am also not a conceited asswipe who thinks his app is the second coming of christ. |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
715
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 06:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:People over complicate WH BM naming to all sorts of stupid ends.
BMs need to be unique only within a single system, NOT chain wide.
Oh, youre scanning a system and there are 3 C5s, a C3 and a NS?
Your BMs only need to look like this:
C5 In
C5
C5a
C3
NS
The BM tagged 'In' always denotes the route back towards home.
Here one of the C5s needs a lable since there are 2 unmarked ones.
The C3 and NS do not need lables since there is only 1 of each.
If youre too lazy to remember which hole you jumped into you can add the last 3 numbers of the target J sig to the BM name:
C5 (123)
C5a (456)
You never need the from system in the BM, it's the system youre in, really NOT very hard to figure out.
You also never need the sig ID in the BM, you just don't.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I've seen some pretty idiotic systems, naming conventions should be only as complicated as necessary.
Gnaw LF wrote:
Sorry but no, when I ping on comms or in intel channel that we have a fight in c5d, I dont want to explain how to get there. I also don't want to explain where to wait or where to form. Thus its helpful to have source > dest system because I only need to say "form up on c5d in c5c" when they select c5c -> c5d bm they know that they have arrived at the destination. You can also have multiple nullsec into the same region, you really want to have Source > Dest if you need to share or manage that BM.
You also don't need to describe the route via bms, all they need to know is which hole they're in, which hole they're headed, and which bm is to the next hole. Use a chainmapper.
There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
634
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 07:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tul Breetai wrote:
You also don't need to describe the route via bms, all they need to know is which hole they're in, which hole they're headed, and which bm is to the next hole. Use a chainmapper.
I guess each and every group seeks the best system for their own needs, we use a mapping tool and still retain this convention. The convention was actually developed and used before the corporate bookmarks were introduced to EvE, Aquila retains the system because of a multitude of nuetral and awoxing toons we utilize for our purposes. It is fine if other groups don't want to use the same concept, but for us this system provides great benefit. |
Mathieu X
Eldar Army
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 09:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hi,
We are a pretty new group and just moved in WH Space some days ago.
We use Tripwire and our naming convention is C2a for the first C2 accessible, C2b for the second, etcGǪ For BM, we use folders named after System (ex. C2a, C2b, etcGǪ) and put every BM into the specific folder. When we can not access a system anymore, we just remove a folder, this is pretty easy. We name the Wormhole with a Gǣ > Gǣ before (ex. > Home, > C2b, etcGǪ). When we do not know the kind of system the WH goes into, we just put the 3 letters of the signature (ex. > ABC). We can recognize our statics (we live in C2 with HS/C3) without warping on them, but are still not good at recognizing others (if you have tips, I welcome them). This is how we do it, and we like it. Tripwire is amazing, thank to its Maker.
However, I always struggle to know the name of the signature I come from. When I find a new WH Space, is it an easy way to know the Signature Name? While writing it, I m saying to myself, maybe, if I launch probes on the entrance I will know immediatelyGǪ Is it what you do?
|
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
976
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 10:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it.
The rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
ISD Ezwal
Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
|
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc.
Disavowed.
123
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 10:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:
...................................................................................c2a
.....................................................................................^
...........c3z..................................................................c5c
.............^......................................................................^
c5y <- c5z <- Banana ->Static -> c5a -> c3a -> c3b - > lowsec
..v........................................................v
.c2z...................................................c5b -> nullsec
I have used several `systems` in my years, and can confirm that this one the most efficient. Every system in the chain has a unique name, so there is no confusing where you are, and where stuff is going down.
Bookmark syntax for us is always [current system] > [destination]. I like to put a star on the back bookmarks, so they show up first (back always refers to the home system). So if you're in c5a for exemple:
*c5a > static
c5a > c3a
c5a > c5b
This way, you do not have to look at j-sigs or at your mapper to see where you are, you know instantly by the bookmarks where you are, and where you need to go. Especially in large chains, this is really helpfull. |
kparko
Sky Fighters
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 11:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mcpate came up with a new BM convention with our move from Low Class wormholes. Now that we are in big boy space all bookmarks look like this:
Here --> There |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
322
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 13:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
When you have a dozen chains, each with multiples of every W-space system class, you find yourself needing to say things like "Targets in the C5c off Jita, form up at the C3d in C4a".
Those who can't understand this also likely struggle with L4 missions or with Hisec mining, which is where we suggest they go.
The reverse-naming for K162 holes is rather interesting though.
|
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
43
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:
Bookmark syntax for us is always [current system] > [destination]. I like to put a star on the back bookmarks, so they show up first (back always refers to the home system). So if you're in c5a for exemple:
*c5a > static
c5a > c3a
c5a > c5b
This way, you do not have to look at j-sigs or at your mapper to see where you are, you know instantly by the bookmarks where you are, and where you need to go. Especially in large chains, this is really helpfull.
Good point about using the name of the current BM to identify the "friendly name" of the system you are in without looking at the mapper. Although, i still can't imagine anyone navigating from one branch of the chain into another (for a CTA) without looking at the route on the mapper, and in that case, it shows you where you are anyways...
I think i will start dropping a generic random BM into the system with its "friendly name" to avoid redundancy of writing it in every other bookmark in the system
Mathieu X wrote:However, I always struggle to know the name of the signature I come from. When I find a new WH Space, is it an easy way to know the Signature Name? While writing it, I m saying to myself, maybe, if I launch probes on the entrance I will know immediatelyGǪ Is it what you do?
I do that, yes. Also, when you open your system map, the WH you just came through is marked on the map as "unstable wormhole" (although it's not warpable), in case you didn't drop the probes and warped off.
Thanks all for the feedback.
How do you maintain old/expired bookmarks? Since i play alone, every new day i login i simply wipe out by WH BM folder (since most of them expired already). Are there better methods? |
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