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Heavy Attack Drone Size Reduction

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Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 2986	Posted - 2014.03.06 10:52:00 - [1] - Quote Reduce the size of heavy attack drones from the current 25m3 to 15m3 or 20m3, such that they offer more of an incentive to utilize over sentry drones (which remain at 25m3). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Lephia DeGrande Luxembourg Space Union 276	Posted - 2014.03.06 13:54:00 - [2] - Quote Yes. Make them filling the gap between Hammerhead and Sentrys.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Hello-There 264	Posted - 2014.03.06 13:59:00 - [3] - Quote makes sense
Batelle HOMELE55 2122	Posted - 2014.03.06 15:27:00 - [4] - Quote not a bad idea. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Leyete Wulf Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc. 22	Posted - 2014.03.06 15:51:00 - [5] - Quote While I think this is a good idea lets be honest, heavy drones will still be slow, apply damage poorly compared to sentries, and subject to close ranged and proximity weapons (screening ships/drones and smart bombs). If the object is to make heavies a comparable weapon they need to be able to out perform sentries in some category. Either by being harder hitting, more flexible, or have much more durability. I would proposed that rather than trying to fit heavies into the space between mediums and sentries CCP should look at fitting heavies into the space between sentries and fighters. Make them use more space, more bandwidth, make them harder hitting, and give them a balance of orbit range and tank that makes them less vulnerable to proximity weapons. That way a domi/geddon/rattler pilot could have the option of deploying sentries and then camping a spot or deploying heavies for an on the run engagement. And yes I know fighters are broke but that's a debate for another thread.
Leoric Firesword Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc. 14	Posted - 2014.03.06 16:04:00 - [6] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Reduce the size of heavy attack drones from the current 25m3 to 15m3 or 20m3, such that they offer more of an incentive to utilize over sentry drones. Bandwidth would remain at 25mbit per heavy drone. I still wouldn't use heavy drones with this change. 1) They're slow, take a long time to get to target/start doing damage. 2) If there's still any frigs/destroyers/cruisers/battlecruisers on the field they'll get eaten alive 3) if you're more than 10-15 km from the battleship you're sending them after chances are they'll get eaten alive. 4) I can project better damage from sentries while outside the range of most of my enemies The only time I've used heavies is if I'm in my BC and don't want to just orbit sentries, otherwise sentries just make more sense for all applications.
Ines Tegator Towels R Us 415	Posted - 2014.03.06 17:06:00 - [7] - Quote Supported. This would let them serve in their niche as close-range brawlers. The lower size also means more replacements can be stored in the drone bay, so the risk of loss due to their slow speed is mitigated somewhat. Still won't see use in missions, but adds some interesting options to PvP drone boats. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there?
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2219	Posted - 2014.03.06 17:19:00 - [8] - Quote This would do absolutely nothing to help with the shortcomings of heavy drones. You would basically have the choice of have more drones to lose or continue to use sentry drones. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement
Ines Tegator Towels R Us 415	Posted - 2014.03.06 17:23:00 - [9] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: This would do absolutely nothing to help with the shortcomings of heavy drones in missions. You would basically have the choice of have more drones to lose or continue to use sentry drones. Fixed that for you. Note that I agree with you, but the difference between pve and pvp uses for them does matter. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there?
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2219	Posted - 2014.03.06 17:25:00 - [10] - Quote Ines Tegator wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: This would do absolutely nothing to help with the shortcomings of heavy drones in missions. You would basically have the choice of have more drones to lose or continue to use sentry drones. Fixed that for you. Note that I agree with you, but the difference between pve and pvp uses for them does matter. Figured some pompous know it all would do something like that. And heavy drones do have plenty of practical application in missions already if you are not a complete moron. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 423	Posted - 2014.03.06 17:37:00 - [11] - Quote They have two uses in missions. 1. They make a small pretty explosion 2. If you are within paint scraping range of another ship they might not die getting to it. Drones need worked over, and one thing I would like to see is Heavies reduced to 20 bw and m3, with their base speed increased significantly. This would let the few 100 mb ships put out a full flight of heavies, or a short stack of sentries with room for a flight of lights for frigate suppression.
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 2994	Posted - 2014.03.06 17:50:00 - [12] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: This would do absolutely nothing to help with the shortcomings of heavy drones. It's a small change, it's an incremental change - and it would seem to be a step in the right direction. I can't see how being able to field more flights or different types of heavy drones can be perceived as a bad thing. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cade Windstalker Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra 296	Posted - 2014.03.06 17:59:00 - [13] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: They have two uses in missions. 1. They make a small pretty explosion 2. If you are within paint scraping range of another ship they might not die getting to it. Drones need worked over, and one thing I would like to see is Heavies reduced to 20 bw and m3, with their base speed increased significantly. This would let the few 100 mb ships put out a full flight of heavies, or a short stack of sentries with room for a flight of lights for frigate suppression. Except that a change like this would also trigger a review and re-balance of all those ships, making this a somewhat pointless objective. If they wanted those ships to field a full flight of Heavies they would have given them 125mb of Bandwidth.
Lephia DeGrande Luxembourg Space Union 277	Posted - 2014.03.06 18:21:00 - [14] - Quote It would buff the Eos.... so its a good Idea... lol
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 1866	Posted - 2014.03.06 18:24:00 - [15] - Quote If we're really going to operate under the belief that Heavy Drones are inferior to Sentry Drones in the same way that Light Drones are inferior to Medium Drones, then I suppose I'll agree to support a modest size reduction.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 430	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:51:00 - [16] - Quote Except that Light drones in practice are better than medium drones, at least in PvE. They do less damage, but they actually make it to the target, and back once they get aggroed sometimes.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 673	Posted - 2014.03.07 01:08:00 - [17] - Quote Heavy drones these days really are in need of major improvement, I agree ships like the stratios should be able to field a full flight, even though not capable of fielding 5 sentries, mediums, are about as slow as can be tolerated, and you still need to actively manage them, however they are starting to benefit from the increased hit points being offered by the new ships, heavies since the drone aggression alterations in PVE are so much a second choice to sentries it is absurd. So the idea to place them between mediums and sentries, with bandwidth a reasonable incentive , makes a lot of sense but they need to have the ability to get to the target and survive, and not just at very short range. If they were placed between mediums and sentries regarding damage, with good survivability, and significantly improved speed, good for say up to 50km then they might have a role again. Theres a hell of a gap between mediums and sentries, and heavies are currently not filling it. Edit: As i have reread my post , I actually realise that I think heavies should be dropped altogether and replaced with high damage variants of mediums. it would be a far better solution. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Ines Tegator Towels R Us 417	Posted - 2014.03.07 01:20:00 - [18] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Edit: As i have reread my post , I actually realise that I think heavies should be dropped altogether and replaced with high damage variants of mediums. it would be a far better solution. So medium combat and assault drones. The heavy drone skill can be renamed to assault drone skill and carried over unchanged. Or just rebalanced to that effect. Same difference, I guess. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there?
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 674	Posted - 2014.03.07 01:29:00 - [19] - Quote Ines Tegator wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: Edit: As i have reread my post , I actually realise that I think heavies should be dropped altogether and replaced with high damage variants of mediums. it would be a far better solution. So medium combat and assault drones. The heavy drone skill can be renamed to assault drone skill and carried over unchanged. Or just rebalanced to that effect. Same difference, I guess. True, but if you are going to give a heavy all the stats of a medium but with increased damage ability, it makes more sense to make it a new version of the medium combat drone. Much less work for CCP. and the heavy drone can be consigned to history. I would suggest that the power should be a little less than 4/5 of the power of the applicable sentry drone, to ensure its overall damage when fielding 5, is not more than using sentries, on a ship that can only carry 4 sentries. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Alyth The Scope Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.03.07 03:12:00 - [20] - Quote I don't know why people are saying that sentries should out-damage heavies... Yes sentries have a complete lack of mobility however that is compensated for with long range and high damage. However heavy drones have far more cons that pros when compared to sentries i.e short range, travel time, slow speed large sig for something so small, poor tracking etc. To be honest, I believe heavy drones should out-damage sentries in the same way as close range weapon systems out-damage long range weapons. No-one complains that blasters out-damage rails for example as they trade off damage for range, the same should apply with drones as it does with every other weapon system in the game. Anyways, my 2 (insert currency unit here) worth - increase speed by at least 75%, increase their agility, increase their tracking, increase base hp slightly and increase base damage bonus so that they deal approx 20-30% more damage than current sentries with travel time taken into account. That way you have the same choice as other weapon users, damage or range.
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights 225	Posted - 2014.03.07 18:36:00 - [21] - Quote +1 Heavy drones are awful, this doesn't make them not awful. It does at least make them a consideration and possibly a good fit for bays with weird sized limits.
Lyra Gerie Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2014.03.07 18:55:00 - [22] - Quote I like this idea. A lot of people are saying they still wouldn't use heavy drones, but honestly despite being slow to apply damage and such compared to sentries it gives them a niche especially on ships with odd or lower then max drone bandwidth. Considering that most lie on the side of gallente who enjoys brawling anyways I could see this change being greeted rather well. The entire drone system needs a rebalancing pass (including Ewar/logi/support drones), but this would be an interesting patch on the system until that overhaul occurs.
Ilkahn Ideal Mechanisms The Explicit Alliance 113	Posted - 2014.03.24 14:20:00 - [23] - Quote I Concur with the idea of the overhaul. Heavies have ceased to be of any use whatsoever to me. PVE or PVP. IMO, as a drone head I believe having them as a short range brawler is an excellent idea. If they get no HP boosts, then comp them with something like +50% damage and double the optimal ranges. I am quite certain this is to extreme, but honestly they are so underwater at this point it would take something like this to bring my attention to them again. At least it allows you to drop on grid, lock a target, throw drones and engage while keeping them close to you. As I see it, without a speed boost your only use is tackling something and unleashing a brutal attack on it, Hoping to take down the object before it takes you.
Clementina Coreli Corporation 156	Posted - 2014.03.24 15:44:00 - [24] - Quote Changing the Heavy Drones to 20m^3 and 20Mb of bandwidth would be a good change.
Arthur Aihaken Arsenite 3138	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:52:00 - [25] - Quote Clementina wrote: Changing the Heavy Drones to 20m^3 and 20Mb of bandwidth would be a good change. I'm honestly not sure how changing the bandwidth would impact gameplay, but I'm certainly not opposed to the idea. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Hello-There 302	Posted - 2014.03.24 16:57:00 - [26] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Clementina wrote: Changing the Heavy Drones to 20m^3 and 20Mb of bandwidth would be a good change. I'm honestly not sure how changing the bandwidth would impact gameplay, but I'm certainly not opposed to the idea. It would mean a ship with 100Mb bandwidth could field a full flight of 5 heavies I guess...
Arthur Aihaken Arsenite 3138	Posted - 2014.03.24 17:45:00 - [27] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: It would mean a ship with 100Mb bandwidth could field a full flight of 5 heavies I guess... I was more thinking of how it plays out with scenarios where you mix heavy, medium and light drones - especially on smaller ships or ships with low drone bandwidth. Maybe it makes more sense to reduce the size to 20 m3 and bandwidth to 15 Mbit for heavy drones? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Vinyl 41 Perkone Academy 36	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:31:00 - [28] - Quote making those 20/20 sounds pretty reasonable -imagine all those 100mbit ships now webbing you and pew pewing you with a full set of heavys ( myrm op? )
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 2322	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:50:00 - [29] - Quote I get quite good performance from Ogre IIs when suicide ganking. They aren't a weapons system without merit. Sentries can't track at all if you are in blaster range - even a Mackinaw that is stationary but tries to move as soon as you shoot it will be missed by a sentry at 3-4km range. (Pardon me while I wipe the drool off my face after thinking about 1200 DPS Vexor gank ships if this change happens...) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com.

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