| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies
Fidelas Constans
161
   |
Posted - 2011.12.20 18:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
MataHarry wrote:mxzf wrote:MataHarry wrote:whereas most of the people with whom I spoke with and who wanted the change were more or less rookies. And rookies initially rarelly crawl through the forums - hence this group is underrepresented. The issue in your logic is that you assume the rookies understand the game as well as the older players. Rookies rarely actually understand most of the core philosophies of Eve. They are still expecting Eve to be a cookie cutter MMO like all the other ones they've played. But Eve is a dark and dangerous place where there are consequences to your actions. Older players usually appreciate that part of the Eve design philosophy and don't want to throw that away simply because some noobs feel like it should be easier. Well Yes and No, I certainly agree and FULLY support the CORE philosophy of EVE, and I think its beautiful. However what I'm trying to say here is that people object for wrong reasons. Introducing plex for remap does not necesserally make EVE easier, its still same mechanics at the core. I'm arguing that people object because of "selfisheness"
Selfishness? Your wanting an Real Money solution to a problem concerning the choices you make in game.
Learn to live with them or get out...its that simple. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
100
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 19:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
MataHarry wrote:Well Yes and No, I certainly agree and FULLY support the CORE philosophy of EVE, and I think its beautiful.
However what I'm trying to say here is that people object for wrong reasons. Introducing plex for remap does not necesserally make EVE easier, its still same mechanics at the core. I'm arguing that people object because of "selfisheness" a) They don't
b) It wouldn't matter to a well constructed argument whether they did or not
And the thing about the whole "only a minority read the forum" - yeah, that minority being those that are (relatively) informed and actually care about the game.
Remaps are a arguably necessary evil. PLEX are a necessary evil. Opening one up for free use with the other is a terrible idea.
[img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img]
Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Lierena
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 09:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
No, no, a thousand times NO.
Pay to win mechanics are not what we as a general player base want in EVE, and as such this idea has been denied time and time again. I won't waste time belittling you because, regardless of your idea, the post you wrote was well done and expresses your opinion thoughtfully. |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
36
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 02:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
No. No to the next person who requests it. You get one a year plus some give aways. The changes to bonus remaps makes extra ones even less needed. Plan ahead. |
Maxsim Goratiev
Nasgul Collective
Cascade Imminent
29
|
Posted - 2011.12.24 10:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
I support this. it gives greater flexibility, and if someone feells like paying CCP over9000$ to save a couple days of training, i ave no problem with that.
And about the meaningful choice- you still have consequence, it hurts your wallet. Most of eve boils down to that anyway. |
Takeshi Yamato
eXceed Inc.
No Holes Barred
48
|
Posted - 2011.12.24 12:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Not supported because it allows you to buy overall higher learning speed (or flexibility in training) with real money. |
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
116
|
Posted - 2011.12.24 12:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lierena wrote:Pay to win mechanics are not what we as a general player base want in EVE, and as such this idea has been denied time and time again.
how is that currently not the case? with more money you can buy better fittings, pay more mercs, offer head money for ganks of competitors or pay for "protection money" to gain easy access to farming grounds. there is no limit how much real money you can inject into the game to get isk to do so.
also, with real money you can just buy an/some account(s) having some 80mil SP (each) first place. 
besides providing another isk sink for CCP, i do not see the problem, if the cost for another remap was made proportional to the currently applied SP - please comment on that. thus rookie mistakes could be remedied rather cheaply while wanting an extra remap at 80mil SP may cost you say 10 plex. i bet you would think twice and rather wait for the 10 days you might have possibly saved.
check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article!
comment, bump(!) and like what you like:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts |
Ryuichi Hiroki
Knights of the Gengod's
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 03:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
PLEX For remap
Can only remap once a year using a plex
or
give us remaps every 6 months instead of a year
Everyone is happy. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 03:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Since the benefit of the remaps is honestly negligible in terms of actual time I will go ahead and say it's ok by me. Seriously...I have looked at all the possible reductions in time for everything I still need to train and in the span of a year it is a total of something along the lines of 5 days of time saved compared to what I have now which is pretty much even across the board in terms of stats. 5 days really doesn't mean all that much to me even at 55 mil SP. Frankly the people this change would benefit the most would be the newbies and even then the benefit isn't so much that I think it would be any kind of problem at all. If anything it would just help more people get more SP faster to get into PvP and Nullsec/WH combat faster. THAT I am all for. You want more people in Nullsec for PvP stuff? Give newbies a faster way into Nullsec. But it wouldn't help the newbies at all really, since they wouldn't have the ISK for PLEXes anyways. The people it would really benefit are the people training up alts, mostly for botting or for sale.
I'd suggest that you're more likely right in one respect; and that would be those training up alts for botting. In no way is it remotely productive to pay4plex or ISK4plex to train a character for resale. Anyone doing so would have to be half a fart short of a full load.
~$20-30 per plex and $20 transfer fee for a slight reduction in training time that could not already be had-within normal perameters-by starting remaps? Effectively it takes potentially months to train up a character for sale under current mechanics, and all for a net gain of maybe 2-3 billion ISK. Anyone forking out 600 million to remap during that period-for the same eventual value-is out of their freakin' minds.
Ideally, in order to retain value, you have to start your mapping with exact attributes for the build, then not spend the extra remaps on top of not playing the character to avoid affecting in-game standings with Corps and Players. Essentially, the most valuable Toon is an unknown with little or no impact on the game, for all his/her training. An empty book.
So no, PLEX remaps on a toon is stupid, when you're considering training for resale. Training for resale is also in a rather poor state in the last year, as the end-value is not worth the-paid-months it takes to train them. Old and current PLEX prices considered.
5 months @ $15 a month + $20 Character transfer = $95 + whatever your times worth. Not sure what that will get you in resaleable PLEX from CCP right now; but I'm sure it's more than the potentially 1-2 billion ISK the Toon will sell at depending on market. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 03:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ryuichi Hiroki wrote:PLEX For remap
Can only remap once a year using a plex
or
give us remaps every 6 months instead of a year
Everyone is happy.
I'll take the 2nd option sir. |
|
|
Disdaine
182
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 11:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Supported. |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 12:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
MataHarry wrote:Thank you very much for your responses guys, some constructive, some not very, thank you non-the-less. Negative result is a result too.
What I would like to point out is that there seems to be bias in terms of what kind of people surf the forums. In other words, people who mainly surf the forum are th veterans who DO NOT want this change to happen, whereas most of the people with whom I spoke with and who wanted the change were more or less rookies. And rookies initially rarelly crawl through the forums - hence this group is underrepresented.
I am a rookie, but I am not mentally challenged. I am fully aware of the implications of my remap, I am aware of what the length of a year is, and I sought advice both from corpmates, the forum (through lurking and trawling through old posts) and evelopedia before making my choice. If I do suddenly do a U turn and completely rethink what direction I want my pilot to go in, I would be far more interested in relocating my skill points than another remap - although on a personal level I object to that as well, as I believe the choices you make should actually matter. If I do realise that my remap has been a big mistake, I still have another one remap gathering dust. Thats why newbs have two remaps, so they can muck one up and be able to redeem their pilot.
Being able to trade Plex for this is an advancement of real money trading, something Eve needs to avoid at all costs. I've seen what that leads to, when four of the top ten players spend a combined total of $6000 per month on a game - there is no way 98% of the players can compete with that. End result - the game is dying fast. One of the reasons I have taken up Eve is the lack of noticeable advantage that can be gained with real money trading, only a small amount of space barbie faggottry is currently present. Any move to expand the advantage gained with real money needs to be stamped on asap - once you open the pandora's box of real money trading for ingame advantage, the game is dead. It may stagger on for months, maybe even a year or two, but trust me - real money for ingame advantage will be the end of Eve.
But full credit to the OP for writing up the proposal so well. I'd much rather read a shocking idea eloquently written than a good idea full of butthurt. |
Baaa Shakiel
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
I don't like this. However I do support PLEX for SP reallocation.
The question then would be whether if the SP reallocation provides any significant ingame advantage rather than convenience. Can the vets comment on that.
Who Said that Noob Ships SuCK?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15091146#lostLoadout |
HK 47
TEMPLAR.
Excuses.
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Solo Player wrote:A well-written proposal, yours.
Still, no.
Remaps added flexibility by making a basic element of the game, your character, an arbitrary thing that could be molded and remolded to suit the player's whim.
However, I firmly believe that it serves EVE as a game to have choices with meaningful consequences. Restricting players through such, as for examply through character generation, is good both for a competitive game and a virtual universe. If you wish to change your playstyle and need play along with the "best", whip out a new character or stick with your old one but be prepared to be patient.
Remapping once a year was bad enough. Allowing to do so at will makes choices mean even less. Some will remap for every skill they train in order to "optimize" their "progress".
In that perspective, PLEX for remap is also basically another pay4win mechanic. I don't care so much for those.
I support this. No Plex for remap.
Edit: I am also against Plex for SP reallocation.
You trained the skills for a reason once so you had your benefit. You made a decission that you want them
and now please live with it. We all have to. And I am proud of every single SP I have (yes, also for exhumer 5 which I haven't used for years). |
Tidurious
The Dirty Rejects
Scelus Sceleris.
68
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 20:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
God-damn your inability to read! WTF can't people see that this is suggested OVER and OVER! It will be NO EVERY SINGLE TIME.
No plex for SP, for remaps, for re-allocations of SP, for SP catch-up, any of that bullshit. |
LinearBurn Aideron
Wargasam
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
I would say remaps arent used at all for the first 30 days of a charcters life that would be my vote and up till 10m sp you can renmap for a plex after that you should know what you are doing and plan acordingly to the standard remap timer |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies
Fidelas Constans
543
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
LinearBurn Aideron wrote:I would say remaps arent used at all for the first 30 days of a charcters life that would be my vote and up till 10m sp you can renmap for a plex after that you should know what you are doing and plan acordingly to the standard remap timer
Why do you foolish #%@%@$ people love to necro a thread thats obivous dead?
================
Get PAID FOR SPAM!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152 |
LinearBurn Aideron
Wargasam
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:LinearBurn Aideron wrote:I would say remaps arent used at all for the first 30 days of a charcters life that would be my vote and up till 10m sp you can renmap for a plex after that you should know what you are doing and plan acordingly to the standard remap timer Why do you foolish #%@%@$ people love to necro a thread thats obivous dead?
google for the win |
Lost True
Paradise project
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 15:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ok, i'll support.
Not that i really want this, but i think that we're be allowed to do remap for a plex sooner or later. I prefer sooner.
But it's should be multiple PLEXes.
And maybe price of such remap will increase each time the player uses this feature. |
Temmu Guerra
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 18:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Still comes down as a pay2win mechanic and everytime something is close to that I say no. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |