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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:45:00 -
[1]
1. Penalty - 25% per stab reduction in acceleration to minimum warp drive activation speed.
Can be countered by aligning, so not a major penalty. But enough to address pilots fitting multiple WCS
2. 20% per stab increase to the amount of cap used when warping.
Can be countered by the Wa/cap skills but is still a major hinderence to warping around system or across large systems whilst still having enough cap to fight with.
I believe these to be balanced, lvl headed and 'realistic' (in-game terms) responses to the problems of pilots fitting multiple WCS
Discuss if you like!
Thanks
K
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:46:00 -
[2]
Delete your post.
WTB Sig, 50 mil, eve mail me and I'll tell ya what I want. |
Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:48:00 -
[3]
zomygod, what an original thread! You sir are a genius.
------ Originally by: Gazon
In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:48:00 -
[4]
Stupid idea, instead, 10% reduction in launcher/turret/smartbomb/Nosferatu rate of fire per stab would work better.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
newfacex
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:52:00 -
[5]
Edited by: newfacex on 24/04/2006 10:52:28
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Stupid idea, instead, 10% reduction in launcher/turret/smartbomb/Nosferatu rate of fire per stab would work better.
rofl
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Boonaki
Delete your post.
Thats all you got? 
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slothe
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:53:00 -
[7]
please no more wcs threads, there more numerous than those annoying bob threads
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:57:00 -
[8]
Thats a stupid response.
imo mine are well thought out related to ingame physics.
Yours are unrelated nonsense...
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:59:00 -
[9]
Just remembered why i don't post on the forums 
OK Guys... i leave you to your flaming haha, have fun...
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:07:00 -
[10]
As the hundreds of threads about WCSes proved, they are balanced already.
The problem lies in the players fitting multiple WCSes, not in the modules themselves.
And there are better solutions against tacklers than WCSes ... hint : if the tackler can't lock ...
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kery Nysell
As the hundreds of threads about WCSes proved, they are balanced already.
The problem lies in the players fitting multiple WCSes, not in the modules themselves.
And there are better solutions against tacklers than WCSes ... hint : if the tackler can't lock ...
Yes and if you read my OP you will see that im aiming towards balancing them further when fitting MULTIPLE wcs.
The penalties themselves are neglible with 1, with multiple stacking penalties things start to mount up...
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Max Teranous
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:15:00 -
[12]
Aaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, needed to do that.
Max 
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:16:00 -
[13]
Please re-read my response.
The modules are fine as they are, it's the players that want full tank + full gank + WCSes that need some fixing ... or maybe a brain ...
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kery Nysell
Please re-read my response.
The modules are fine as they are, it's the players that want full tank + full gank + WCSes that need some fixing ... or maybe a brain ...
Exactly. The point is that on certain ships/builds you can fit tank/dmg/ew and still have the advantage with NO penalty of fitting stabs.
I know it has been discussed to death, i know ppl are whining like little girls in thier responses to this thread... that they hated so much but still read (lol)
The simple fact remains imo that the module does need 'balancing' when fitting multiples
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:33:00 -
[15]
Since we have a search function, I won't re-type all I already typed on this subject ... there are hundreds (if not thousands) of replies on this topic ...
BTW, I don't use WCSes, I need my low slots for other, much more useful (in my eyes) modules.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:48:00 -
[16]
WCS are fine.
Thankyou.
Testy's Eve Blog!
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Muthsera
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
WCS are fine.
Thankyou.
Totally agree.
My thoughs
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 24/04/2006 11:50:48
Originally by: Kaiu
Originally by: Kery Nysell
Please re-read my response.
The modules are fine as they are, it's the players that want full tank + full gank + WCSes that need some fixing ... or maybe a brain ...
Exactly. The point is that on certain ships/builds you can fit tank/dmg/ew and still have the advantage with NO penalty of fitting stabs.
I know it has been discussed to death, i know ppl are whining like little girls in thier responses to this thread... that they hated so much but still read (lol)
The simple fact remains imo that the module does need 'balancing' when fitting multiples
The simple fact seems to elude you to be honest, cant think why as its been said in every single wcs thread, and including the other wcs whine thread on this damn page.
WCS ARE ALREADY BALANCED, infact they are prenerfed... tacklers can fit -2 scramblers, but I cant fit +2 WCS.
Hmm... wtb, damage mods that fit in the midslots.
WCS = NOT FULL GANK WCS = NOT FULL TANK FOR AN ARMOUR TANKER WCS = NO PDU'S OR CAP RELAYS FOR SHIELD TANKERS AND FITTING REQUIREMENTS.
WCS being a module in itself has penalties.
Why do people respond in this thread? because if it wasnt for the fact that the majority of people posting in these threads being damn annoyed at the fact that people make these threads at a rate of 2 a day without being informed or having the intelligence to understand all aspects of the module they are whining about, you wouldnt have posters.
read up... not a single poster in this thread is for your "idea". In fact they are all either flaming you, or disagreeing with you.
-----
If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people
Eve & Linux Woot! |
Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:51:00 -
[19]
The Sky is falling.
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: M3ta7h3adThe simple fact seems to elude you to be honest, cant think why as its been said in every single wcs thread, and including the other wcs whine thread on this damn page.
WCS ARE ALREADY BALANCED, infact they are prenerfed... tacklers can fit -2 scramblers, but I cant fit +2 WCS.
Hmm... wtb, damage mods that fit in the midslots.
WCS = NOT FULL GANK WCS = NOT FULL TANK FOR AN ARMOUR TANKER WCS = NO PDU'S OR CAP RELAYS FOR SHIELD TANKERS AND FITTING REQUIREMENTS.
WCS being a module in itself has penalties.
Why do people respond in this thread? because if it wasnt for the fact that the majority of people posting in these threads being damn annoyed at the fact that people make these threads at a rate of 2 a day without being informed or having the intelligence to understand all aspects of the module they are whining about, you wouldnt have posters.
read up... not a single poster in this thread is for your "idea". In fact they are all either flaming you, or disagreeing with you.[/quote
Personal attacks... fantastic response 
Nice and long post, extra marks and a gold star for that though 
Ok. So to your weak argument.
The tacklers fitting 2 midslots of disruptors dont miss out on shields or other options then is what you are saying?
You can't argue it one way and not the other...
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:51:00 -
[21]
Another point about the limited argument of 'not full...'
I can fit all the weapons/nos/ew and a very decent tank onto my BS's and still accomodate WCS very, very easily. That argument is redundant.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Stupid idea, instead, 10% reduction in launcher/turret/smartbomb/Nosferatu rate of fire per stab would work better.
You can counter damage with a bigger blob. Nerf range instead - if you have to come closer, tracking counts more (less damage) AND more things can hit you back!
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:11:00 -
[23]
I still believe it should be linked to something related... ie. warping or travel
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:21:00 -
[24]
An example of something a friend has been using in another alliance's territory on an alt without being 'caught' whilst raiding them ratting/convoy etc is the following..
Scorpion -
HIGH = Cloak, Cruise, Nos
MID = ECM - Warp Scram - MWD
LOW = 2 x wcs 2 x tank (plate/rep?)
He's avoided the usual traps, any probs he jams and runs the 2 wcs are the extra, extra, never going to catch me button. Runs to safe and cloaks...
Lame imo but highlights why theyre unbalanced ?
If it had restrictions on warping warm-up time or distance perhaps he could be caught by the additional tacklers coming into the fight... blah blah
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Stupid idea, instead, 10% reduction in launcher/turret/smartbomb/Nosferatu rate of fire per stab would work better.
You can counter damage with a bigger blob. Nerf range instead - if you have to come closer, tracking counts more (less damage) AND more things can hit you back!
Autopest with 2x 7.5 km scrambler warps in on a raven thats been camping the station at 3 km, scrambles and open fire, raven warps off.
Stupid stabs 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:33:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kaiu on 24/04/2006 13:33:31
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 24/04/2006 13:25:54
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Stupid idea, instead, 10% reduction in launcher/turret/smartbomb/Nosferatu rate of fire per stab would work better.
You can counter damage with a bigger blob. Nerf range instead - if you have to come closer, tracking counts more (less damage) AND more things can hit you back!
Autopest with 2x 7.5 km scrambler warps in on a raven thats been camping the station at 3 km, scrambles and open fire, raven warps off.
Stupid stabs
f youre people are gonna PVP they should do it without stabs. If people wanna stab up their BS and run through chokepoints, fine by me.
See, now he is using the mod for preciesly what they were designed for. To counter the warp scram... what is stupid about that?
Nothing! Just because ppl whine about it. Doesnt mean its wrong. The problem is, its to footloose and fancy free ( wtf?)
Theres no penalty to fitting multiples of either mod's..
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:19:00 -
[27]
Well, there are also no penalties for fitting multiple scramblers/disruptors ... and no penalties for multiple Cargo Expanders, Nanofibers and a whole bunch of low slots items ...
Once again, the module itself is balanced, but the players abuse it (and that is subject to interpretation, hit and run tactics are a part of the game ...).
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Talthrus
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:28:00 -
[28]
What ever happened to the age old trick of bumping your target as they try and warp? It can buy you upwards of 15 seconds or more if you know how to do it right.
----------------------
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:35:00 -
[29]
Why... won't.. this.. topic... die!
Respect the Domi. Or else.
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:41:00 -
[30]
WCS are totally balanced, bring more tackle power.
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Raeff
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:47:00 -
[31]
wcs ftw .. i printed 6 and carry em in my wallet
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:53:00 -
[32]
main wcs midslots and active would balance things out imo.
i also then could have expanders in the lows and wcs int he meds on a hauler then.
also ppl whining that amarr cant fit 8 wcs anymore,
well caldaric ant either atm, so maybe time to change now? :P
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.25 02:18:00 -
[33]
Just give a map filter for "number of WCS in use in system".
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Bare Tull
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Posted - 2006.04.25 10:16:00 -
[34]
WCS, only way NORAD can get out of a fight alive.
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2006.04.25 11:30:00 -
[35]
1st point is completly rediculous, you can now choose to die while getting speed to warp, or don't fit them and die because you are scrambled.
2nd point is not bad imo.
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cytomatrix
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Just give a map filter for "number of WCS in use in system".
rofl.
___________________________________________________
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Xantina
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:47:00 -
[37]
1. Penalty - 25% per stab reduction in acceleration to minimum warp drive activation speed.
Can be countered by aligning, so not a major penalty. But enough to address pilots fitting multiple WCS
2. 20% per stab increase to the amount of cap used when warping.
Can be countered by the Wa/cap skills but is still a major hinderence to warping around system or across large systems whilst still having enough cap to fight with.
How about this:
3. Log account of any "nerf WCS" thread creators. 20% cap, speed and cpu penalty ingame per useless thread. 5 threads will leave your ships with 0 cap and cpu.
Can be countered by starting a new account or by stopping to create the 3756347th "nerf WCS QQ" thread.
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:55:00 -
[38]
I'm loving interdictors atm. It's great watching all those f***ing stab*****s die in a few seconds because they have entirely and completely gimped their setups to fit stabs.
The only problem i still have is stabbed vagas. Working on a webbing drone solution atm. How about some light versions of web drones? I can only fit one in my hold atm
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kaiu
An example of something a friend has been using in another alliance's territory on an alt without being 'caught' whilst raiding them ratting/convoy etc is the following..
Scorpion -
HIGH = Cloak, Cruise, Nos
MID = ECM - Warp Scram - MWD
LOW = 2 x wcs 2 x tank (plate/rep?)
He's avoided the usual traps, any probs he jams and runs the 2 wcs are the extra, extra, never going to catch me button. Runs to safe and cloaks...
Lame imo but highlights why theyre unbalanced ?
If it had restrictions on warping warm-up time or distance perhaps he could be caught by the additional tacklers coming into the fight... blah blah
So, in other words, until wcs are nurfed to the point you can easily counter them with no skill or effort and get guarenteed kill every time you won't consider them balanced?
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Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Talthrus
What ever happened to the age old trick of bumping your target as they try and warp? It can buy you upwards of 15 seconds or more if you know how to do it right.
Except it takes too long to bump anything except large and unaligned ships, which aren't the main WCS issue. You're likely to have enough points on those before they can line up anyway.
The problem is the ability for ships that want to engage to use this as an additional safety layer after ECMs, warp alignment, MWDs and range.
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TheOnyx
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:20:00 -
[41]
WCS takes a slot and quite some CPU which limits the rest of your fitting.
Why the hell can't ppl just leave the module alone !?
I'm so sorry you weren't able to kill that BS because of the 4 WCS...
Choices...
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:34:00 -
[42]
Quote:
WCS - Balancing
Dunno why people insist they arent balanced. They keep throwing in the arguement about a 3 stab Vagabond and suchlike. But if you put 3 scams on your setup his Stabs are useless. You can even do it with 2 with 7.5K Disruptors.
Sure, Scrams use a little cap, Stabs dont. So? Once you stack up enough scram strenght on his ship, its all an exercise in futility anyway.
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Father Weebles
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:40:00 -
[43]
IMO frigates should not be able to scram a bs...something like 1 frig with a scrammer slows down pre-warp speed by 25%, 2 by 50%, and 4 by 100%.
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