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Sex Lexia
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:14:00 -
[1]
Why is this allowed, i know theres been many many posts about this before but its just bloody well eating me up now.
A well known game time card seller has about 91bill in his wallet according to a screen shot i've just been shown (may be fake, but he still has a hell of a lot of isk).
Allowing people to sell game time cards for isk is just another way of selling isk on eBay imo, an instant "i win eve" button.
Please CCP, for the love of all thats good in this game, do something about this. Its making the game highly unfair for honest people going about their business making isk their own way. Then in comes the game time card seller and buys up as many T2 BPO's as he possibly can, ohno i don't have this BPO and i don't have enough isk, i better go sell some more time cards. Meanwhile the poor miners/npcers/r&ders/manufactures are left making their isk properly and not getting the reward they were hoping for as some time card seller made a couple of billion in an hour and then bought some BPO's.
Eve is supposed to be a balanced game, how on earth is this balanced?
I don't care if i get flamed to death, i've just had it with this unfair method of making isk that ccp has allowed the community to do.
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Splagada
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:15:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Splagada on 24/04/2006 12:15:26
agreed in the concept, yeah it's injecting real life money ingame
CCP should look closely at what happened in Asheron's Call
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Member of [AAST] |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:18:00 -
[3]
The idea was supposed to be that if you couldn't afford to pay for eve IRL but you were well established in the game, you would be able to buy a game time card off a corpmate or something, which people already did. The problem, which I brought up at the allowance's inception, is exactly as you have stated. There's use and then there's abuse. Unfortunately, legitimising use of this trading pathway has led to widespread abuse.
They're fully aware of the problems. They just aren't doing anything about it *shrug*.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
FalconHawk
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:20:00 -
[4]
tbh i like it that way, i can play eve for free with 2 accounts  . i don¦t care for some ppl getting insanly rich cause of selling GTCs, if i would blame them, then i need get over the T2 BPO lottery again, it¦s only luck and not realy helps to "balance" a game ....
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blacknight9
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: blacknight9 on 24/04/2006 12:41:16
Edited by: blacknight9 on 24/04/2006 12:41:03
Edited by: blacknight9 on 24/04/2006 12:39:57
I think CCP alows it for one good reason only: they have 100k+ users, but looking on other mmo's they have way more players than Eve; if they didn't allowed it, other players would buy it from ebay (who currently is unstoppable by ccp).
So instead of losing 15 bucks on ebay and not gaining profit they choose this way as to stop a part of users, but not all, and getting the money too. U should think that in the end people whould get it, but no: Eve like any other games is based on MONEY. If there's no money no Eve.
Conclusion: let people buy GTC (the seller gets the ISk, the buyer gets 30,60,90 days of playtime and CCP is getting the money so everybody is happy, well almost everybody  )
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: LWMaverick on 24/04/2006 12:44:43
Im glad i can pay with ingame isk...
Imo its not a problem that someone choose to pay ccp with real life cash, to get some isk, and do us poor students a favor.
And isk in not a "i win button".. and never will be
Go pay a million real life cash, to build youreself an officer fitted titan, and a 60m sp charachter to pilot it... You will still get ganked
OH... and ccp is earning money on this.. more money -> more gms/devs/designers/programmers -> new servers/upgrades/expansions/bug fixes/and so on 
Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!! |
Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:52:00 -
[7]
lol this is a classic example of corporate morality.
CCP decide that the translation of real life wealth into isk is bad for the game on the whole, and persecute and ban any macromier/eve-sellers they can find
until...
they figure out a way to get their slice of the action, then its totally acceptable.
Its a sad day when you see this kind of cynical sentiment creep into a company. I honestly believe that when EVE started out with its small unheard-of team, that it wasn't just about the money, but a genuine enthusiasm about the game they were creating. When CCP condone something like this though, it seems to suggest that CCP have now outgrown their initial naive enthusiasm and are now firmly back to caring about what a good corporation should: pure profit and margins.
The people who endorsed this timecard strategy probably dont give two hoots if the game is dead as a donut in two years time, as long as they get rich along the way. Certainly wouldn't be the first company to start out in a refreshing manner, and quickly turn into everything they formerly distinguished themselves from.
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Splagada
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:55:00 -
[8]
but how are the timecards given to retail sellers? ccp gets money, the same way if they ended on ebay eheh
they dont get more money by allowing gamecards for isk, just an ownership transfer from the gamecard
however, the player goes and buys gamecards and resells them for isk, same as an ebay transaction
i didnt look at the price but it seems close to what macrominers sell
i just dont get it?
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Member of [AAST] |
Lori Carlyle
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:56:00 -
[9]
Example, I want a Navy issue BS quickly
A. Buy isk off ebay.
B. Buy time card (ebay again) and sell for the isk.
There is no diffrence between which way you do it, you are using RL cash to get a quick injection of isk. something CCP have said is not allowed. 
PINK PINK PINK PINK PINK ERISGREEN
Eris <3 Meh! |
Splagada
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:03:00 -
[10]
yup i stand corrected here, there is no more profit for ccp actually, just a way for very rich players to play with their isk instead of rl cash
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Member of [AAST] |
Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:10:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Lori Carlyle
Example, I want a Navy issue BS quickly
A. Buy isk off ebay.
B. Buy time card (ebay again) and sell for the isk.
There is no diffrence between which way you do it, you are using RL cash to get a quick injection of isk. something CCP have said is not allowed.
People are buying timcodes from either CCP or a reseller not ebay, therefore CCP is making the cash from the timecard sales .
O RLY?! --Jorauk
Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes |
Splagada
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:12:00 -
[12]
well ccp is just selling ingame time here... which is what they sell anyway :p
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Member of [AAST] |
Logi3
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:29:00 -
[13]
But, theres also no way to stop it without stoping time cards. Someone sends you 300mil for a code, how do CCP know why they sent the 300mil?
This way CCP are getting the money not someone profiting from ISK sales
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Lori Carlyle
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cypherous
Originally by: Lori Carlyle
Example, I want a Navy issue BS quickly
A. Buy isk off ebay.
B. Buy time card (ebay again) and sell for the isk.
There is no diffrence between which way you do it, you are using RL cash to get a quick injection of isk. something CCP have said is not allowed.
People are buying timcodes from either CCP or a reseller not ebay, therefore CCP is making the cash from the timecard sales .
Gamegoodie on Ebay sell timecards... yes they come from CCP at the start but heh. you can buy anything on Ebay.
PINK PINK PINK PINK PINK ERISGREEN
Eris <3 Meh! |
Splagada
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:40:00 -
[15]
on second thought
if there are buyers, you cant really do anything...
i'd better see that on an official supported site than on "underground" website
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Member of [AAST] |
Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:41:00 -
[16]
To be honest if i was going to buy some isk, I'd buy it from an ebayer not via a timecard: At least they aren't hypocrites, and you get more for your money.
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:43:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Chain Gang on 24/04/2006 13:42:44
CCP Have made their decision ... its in a sticky .. do we need another GTC thread....
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Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.04.24 13:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Chain Gang
Edited by: Chain Gang on 24/04/2006 13:42:44
CCP Have made their decision ... its in a sticky .. do we need another GTC thread....
No we dont need this thread. The again we dont need any of the thread on this board. My life would go on without them. Lets just close the boards for good, lest you have to read something twice.
Im so sorry to have troubled you. Thanks for your constructive contribution.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cypherous
Originally by: Lori Carlyle
Example, I want a Navy issue BS quickly
A. Buy isk off ebay.
B. Buy time card (ebay again) and sell for the isk.
There is no diffrence between which way you do it, you are using RL cash to get a quick injection of isk. something CCP have said is not allowed.
People are buying timcodes from either CCP or a reseller not ebay, therefore CCP is making the cash from the timecard sales .
But no more so than they would earn anyway, from people having an account. Allowing the sale of game-time cards for ISK *does not* bring CCP any extra money.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Koth Krakenworth
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Logi3
But, theres also no way to stop it without stoping time cards. Someone sends you 300mil for a code, how do CCP know why they sent the 300mil?
I think this is right on the spot, it's not like they can ban you for sending ISK and receiving a mail with some random characters. So they can just as well legalize it since it's nothing they can do about it anyways.
Signature: Complete Image
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Mike Spike
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:08:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Mike Spike on 24/04/2006 14:09:13
The main problem I see that these isk in one hand mean a lot of power, like being able to buy yourself into the tech-2 market with it and buy other things that give you a long term advantage.
But personally I've adapted to the situation, because the illegal ways to obtain isk are there and no matter what I do, I can't change it. Since my bank account was rather low in the last months, I've bought about the last 5 or 6 codes with isk to keep my accounts running.
Ok, if a guy tells you that he has another 14 90-day time codes for sale for 270 mil isk each, you really wonder, why someone spends so much rl money on a game, in that case like 600 EUR or more, but you also think about how much isk he gets for doing nothing in-game.
On the other hand, it's not more than 2 dreads in value and multiple capital ships get destroyed every week. Maybe that's the reason why I just think: 'Thanks for the playtime, here are my isks.'
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Zeonog
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Posted - 2006.04.24 14:14:00 -
[22]
I agree totally, but alas it doesn't look like anything is gonna happen. I wish I was rich in RL, then I could translate this to being rich in game also
I'm waiting for this to be locked. It seems when one of these threads come about, it normally gets locked on some excuse 
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Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.04.24 15:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Splagada
yup i stand corrected here, there is no more profit for ccp actually, just a way for very rich players to play with their isk instead of rl cash
This isn't necissarrily true...
a) A macro miner mines 270 million isk worth of minerals and sells these on ebay for $40.
b) Player 1 buys a GTC for $40 and sells this for 270 million to player 2.
in a) CCP are richer by 0.
in b) CCP are richer by the actual cost of the GTC $30 sounds fair.
Yes, you can argue that the people who bought that GTC would have been subscribing anyway, BUT, I know several people who have stated that they can't afford/ are unwilling to pay for the game or have got silly amounts like 7 accounts, all paid through Isk -> GTC sales.
The fact of the matter is that GTC sales DO provide revenue for CCP Where eBay sales of ingame items do not.
The other thing against the purchase of items directly from CCP are:
1) Legality of ownership.
ok, so I'm an insanely rich person. I insta-buy a Titan for ú10,000 (thats about the going cost of it). I go out in my nice shiny Titan and BLAM. Get a nasty bug. I wake up in a pod somewhere, with a traffic cone and a give way sign.
Player 1 strikes CCP with lawsuit, wrecking for a lot of money...
2) Effect on economy.
Yes, macro miners/ farmers DO affect the economy, BUT. There influence is limited by their "manpower". The isk they sell, ultimately comes from the time they "invest", and is therfore finite. CCP selling items would either have to pair up the buying of items with the sell orders, or think of some other way for this insta-inflation to be limited.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
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Teles666
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Posted - 2006.04.24 15:57:00 -
[24]
I could easily fund my accounts through isk - but I have better things to spend it on :)
I really don't think it's a bad thing though, for all the arguments against it people will buy isk / items - there isn't a MMO yet which this hasn't happened to and so far as hurting the game goes, selling GTC's to richer players is pretty harmless.
What I don't like is the idea that farmers are buying gtc's to sell for real cash - basically a legalised outlet for their isk farming.
That could be stopped if CCP formalised the arrangement - forcing you to trade the GTC through an in-game interface, and that GTC could then only be used by that character.
I don't think CCP want to give it that level of acceptance - but they really should decide if they want to allow it or not in that case.
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Sex Lexia
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Posted - 2006.04.24 16:34:00 -
[25]
Ok so maybe i overlooked the people actualy buying the GTC's and agreeing that its good for them as the last thing i want to see is people stop playing the game as they can't afford it. How about some sort of implementation where, like a previous poster suggested implement a GTC exchange system of sorts and limit the number of GTC you can sell per month per char/ the number you can buy each month per credit card. Or something, that way the poor students still get their eve but the system can not be abused to obscene levels.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.24 16:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Cypherous
Originally by: Lori Carlyle
Example, I want a Navy issue BS quickly
A. Buy isk off ebay.
B. Buy time card (ebay again) and sell for the isk.
There is no diffrence between which way you do it, you are using RL cash to get a quick injection of isk. something CCP have said is not allowed.
People are buying timcodes from either CCP or a reseller not ebay, therefore CCP is making the cash from the timecard sales .
But no more so than they would earn anyway, from people having an account. Allowing the sale of game-time cards for ISK *does not* bring CCP any extra money.
Actually you are dead wrong.
It's created a market that was not filled before.
Joe Blogs with his well paying job now buys an ETC and sells it. Who does he sell it to? He sells it to the college kid with a couple of t2 bpos and tons of ISK but no RL cash. There, thats an account that now exists that wouldn't have otherwise.
That in my book is extra money for CCP, otherwise this would have petered out ages back.
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Flyyn
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Posted - 2006.04.24 16:56:00 -
[27]
God idea, me is off to buy a paychecks worth of GTC, going to sell them all to highest bidder. And Me puts in order for titan now.
Time to become the untimate pirate....
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Jacque D'eath
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:09:00 -
[28]
Hmmm . . .if you saw a balance of 91 Billion ISK then . . . .
Currrently 100 day cards seem to be going for 270M to 310M ISK on teh sell pages of the forum
@ 290 M ISK per 100 day card it would take:
91 Billion ISK / 290 Million ISK = 314 100 day cards
314 x 100 day cards @ 49.95 each = $15,680 
That is a hell of a lot of cash to spend on a game . . .
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Ackura
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:12:00 -
[29]
What the frack is wrong with some of you? Ever heard of poor ppl? But as you, they want to play eve. Ever heard about those countries where 100$ a month is a very good salary? You guys are lucky living in England, US and so on, where money arren`t such a big problem. Tbh i don`t give a **** about GTC sellers getting rich, coz of them eve is bigger, think of what you like about this. The fact that i`ve made my money only by playing the game is more then enough for me and i really, really, really don`t care about others wealth. Just coz some of you don`t agree this doesn`t mean GTC selling is a bad thing. Plz b4 posting, plz think with your brain.
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Sex Lexia
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ackura
What the frack is wrong with some of you? Ever heard of poor ppl? But as you, they want to play eve. Ever heard about those countries where 100$ a month is a very good salary? You guys are lucky living in England, US and so on, where money arren`t such a big problem. Tbh i don`t give a **** about GTC sellers getting rich, coz of them eve is bigger, think of what you like about this. The fact that i`ve made my money only by playing the game is more then enough for me and i really, really, really don`t care about others wealth. Just coz some of you don`t agree this doesn`t mean GTC selling is a bad thing. Plz b4 posting, plz think with your brain.
My post is not against people buying the time cards, if you had read my post no where have i mentioned people need to stop buying them. I later posted that i seemed to forget about the people buying them to make it clear i was not against them. I am against the people who are abusing the system and making countless billions from this. Now if you had used your brain and read everything, there would be no need for your above angry post.
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