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Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Obmud on 25/04/2006 12:28:21
The following quotes are from my petition i had issued. This topic some of you might remember:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=326030&sid=777680407
This crap is just ******* ridicoulos. Theres absolutely no reason why i would have had intentions to friggin destroy all of my implants, besides that was not the first jump i did... I'm so annoyed i could even start to play WoW again. And THATS capital annoyance. I feel like rabbling at the moment, i lost days, implants and arg.. i don't know
Edited by: Obmud on 25/04/2006 12:27:31
[Summed Up GM Response, since not allowed to post GM responses]
"It's not a bug. No reimbursement"
Update from me today:
It's nice from you that you point towards the knowledge article, but I didn't know that firstly and you cannot expect anyone to read it over every other action he does but it wont matter anyway. However you refer to a popped up message. As i wrote i was in skill training while i wanted to jump to my clone, so the message popped up that i have to cancel the training. I did. Then i jumped. NOTHING happend. As i wrote, normally if you jump there is either a warning OR you jump and end up outside of any ship. Correct me if i'm wrong but i'm very sure that i did NOT click a second message of any kind NOR did i end up somewhere else, just nothing happend not even the game got locked up for various seconds as it usually does. I'm very certain of this.
Anyway who in the world would for WHAT reason ever destroy a clone with implants on it with a clone with no implants regardless their worth ?
I'm for 2 months, almost 3 in this game and as you can imagine since i'm not one of those that buys his ISK from ebay this is alot of cash. But i guess this leaves me in the position of loss since i cannot prove anything because i'm not really running fraps all the time. Besides the question remains, how in the world ever would replace his full clone with an empty one. Whatever i'm slightly ****ed right now. I feel like i wasted weeks of play right now for just something terribly stupid and unlogic.
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:27:00 -
[2]
Can't post GM replies on forums, is against the rules. And we can't help you. Work it out with the GMs.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:31:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 25/04/2006 12:31:59
Your clone at station A. You stayed at station A and you jumped into clone at station A? You have overwritten your clone...
Work as intended?
EDIT: Posting GM response will result a forum gank by Mods.  Can I have your stuffs? 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:32:00 -
[4]
Quote:
"Then i jumped. NOTHING happend. As i wrote, normally if you jump there is either a warning OR you jump and end up outside of any ship."
Working as intended ? I guess no. But still.
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Alliaanna Dalaii
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:33:00 -
[5]
Urr not really sure what your saying tbh...
But.. HUMAN ERROR does occur in many many situations ! Regardless of how stupid.
What kind of a sane rational person would self destruct their tech II ship ! I could petition and say "why did I do that eh ? it was bugged I told it to stop and it didn't" blatent lies lol, I was drunk. But hopefully you see my point
Its not what you know its what you can prove 
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-= |
Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:37:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Obmud on 25/04/2006 12:37:14
 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Urr not really sure what your saying tbh...
But.. HUMAN ERROR does occur in many many situations ! Regardless of how stupid.
What kind of a sane rational person would self destruct their tech II ship ! I could petition and say "why did I do that eh ? it was bugged I told it to stop and it didn't" blatent lies lol, I was drunk. But hopefully you see my point
Its not what you know its what you can prove
Alliaanna
You are completely right on this. Thats why i'm ****ed. I'm actually not blaming anyone. it's just worth to get into the discussion if it has ANY sense to leave the possibility to jump in the same station. Why do you even enable that feature ? Make the people destroy their old if they want to be sure or whatever. But 200 mill or even more if you have +4 imps just depending on one click or missclick (who reads after 100 jumps whats in that box popping up, you think anyway its the skill mesage).
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Kay Han
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kay Han on 25/04/2006 12:53:47
1) there is no PoUp when you clonejump after stoping th current skill training
2) if you 'jump' within the same station, your installed clone gets destructed < thats intended BTW
3) the GM is right. there was no Bug. it was just a human fault.
=
No reimburstment
___________________________________________
A wise man said once:
'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
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Lebowske
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lebowske on 25/04/2006 12:59:39
Sorry to hear.
You deserve some sympathy - no doubt - but you can play this game 2 ways ..
... either you go face the bull, each and every time you try something new, head first ..
or you can do a little research before you try new things.
These issues have been talked about on the forums - it's been linked in sticky threads - it's listed in the FAQ's.
Especially with expensive items as your implants - or in later cases, expensive ships - you should do a little research. ;)
I agree - it's totally bull that the mechanism work this way, let's hope it changes in the future - but as of now the GM's are right. It's an user error.
GL in the future, let's hope you get something out if this :)
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- Lebowski
-- I, the royal we, you know, the editorial --
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Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lebowske
Edited by: Lebowske on 25/04/2006 12:59:39
Sorry to hear.
You deserve some sympathy - no doubt - but you can play this game 2 ways ..
... either you go face the bull, each and every time you try something new, head first ..
or you can do a little research before you try new things.
These issues have been talked about on the forums - it's been linked in sticky threads - it's listed in the FAQ's.
Especially with expensive items as your implants - or in later cases, expensive ships - you should do a little research. ;)
I agree - it's totally bull that the mechanism work this way, let's hope it changes in the future - but as of now the GM's are right. It's an user error.
GL in the future, let's hope you get something out if this :)
Thx, i'm a very active forum user and do a lot of research, it's still silly that i should be able to cover everything... thats just wishthinking. It's happend so fast...
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Lebowske
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:14:00 -
[10]
No doubt :)
It may be poor design of the Jumpclone interface, but as long as they claim it's by design it wont be treated as a bug - hence no reimburstment.
However - maybe CCP should could change their policy of reimburstment until a better interface is in place. But for that to happen you should contact the GM's again, and maybe get a senior GM to look at it, which may bring it to CCP's attention. In the end, we may get a new policy on the issue.
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- Lebowski
-- I, the royal we, you know, the editorial --
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B0rn2KiLL
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:14:00 -
[11]
evil money-sink  
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new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u. |
Syrec
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:40:00 -
[12]
If there's no reason a person would jump to the same station, destroying a superior clone, then it shouldn't be possible. Then again; it's possible for a newbie to start with tons of charisma and no perception only to realize a month later that they have to reroll. Imo, it's not good gameplay to allow players to screw themselves over on new things that they aren't clearly informed about.
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Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Syrec
If there's no reason a person would jump to the same station, destroying a superior clone, then it shouldn't be possible. Then again; it's possible for a newbie to start with tons of charisma and no perception only to realize a month later that they have to reroll. Imo, it's not good gameplay to allow players to screw themselves over on new things that they aren't clearly informed about.
That's exactly what i'm talking about.
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:53:00 -
[14]
Eve doesn't come with a manual, you learn as you go.
Eve doesn't come with a hint book, you learn as you go.
Eve operates on the crudest user interface I've ever seen. It looks at best like an extremely bad dos -> windows import. It actually makes my "estimation" bid software at work look user friendly & easy to operate by comparision.
Eve has a very poor game model featuring a total-loss system which, in order to balance out, requires a no-loss combat system. i.e. since you lose everything if you fail, npc combat must be trivialized so you cannot fail so progress can be made.
since NPC combat has to be trivialized in order to combat inflation and provide some illusion of a player driven economy loss must be provided.
so Eve goes with the "stupidly or ignorantly" loss system.
If you act stupidly or ignorantly, you lose your stuff.
You acted ignorantly and you lost your stuff, welcome to eve.
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Kylania
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:29:00 -
[15]
You should really read about new features before you try to use them. The fact that same station jumps is dangerous has been covered in every single Jump Clone FAQ I've ever seen, this isn't something new.
--
Lil Miner |
Chin Qui
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:38:00 -
[16]
I have been reliably informed that what you are experiencing can be safely assigned to the "PEBCAK" mode of errors and is quite difficult to resolve without major upheaval.
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Magnus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:43:00 -
[17]
I have a feeling you would have got your implants back, if you had asked nicely. GMs are people as well, you know 
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Dugan Lee
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:48:00 -
[18]
I work customer service for a fairly large customer service oriented company and whenever I get an email about a human error (not on our part) kind of mistake I go out of my way to hook the customer up.
That said, when I get mail like the one you sent, I'll very rarely go out of my way. Try some manners next time youÆre trying to tell someone how their games should/shouldn't work.
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Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dugan Lee
Try some manners next time youÆre trying to tell someone how their games should/shouldn't work.
^ Words to live by when attempting to get a satisfactory responce.
Boobies:  |
Mort Sinious
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:12:00 -
[20]
I would agree to any poster, who told you to read the manuals before trying something stupid. IF there was a good manual.
A software manufacturer should realy not force people to search for information inside forums and third-party manuals and faqs. And if I can't provide an official manual/faq that is available to anyone without the need of search, shouldn't be surprised that people miss vital information.
Yes, you could have found that faq on yur own, but good software should make it more easy to find it. For exaple complete that EVE-Wikipedia or add ALL information into those Player Guides. Currently that Guide covers about 30% of EVEs content.
So, now you can flame me as I should be more intelligent and dig up all info as Im so stupid and demanding ;)
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Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:13:00 -
[21]
Oh now it starts to get interesting, now it's my harsh tone.
To clear some things up. My first petition ingame was very friendly and on topic, i even stated that i fully understand if they have to much load for customers dealing with bugs atm so i could wait.
The System was out of work, thus killing the whole text I wrote.
My initial approach was the ingamethread i wrote. And from that i think it is understandable that I got angry. I never blamed a GM or whoever directly i just said that i'm annoyed. Now every former gm comes out of his stone and trolls about how i wrote it ? Yeah i've been in the customer support to, and it still doesn't matter. Atm i have an issue, I didn't blame the GM, IF i blame anyone then it's the game mechanics to allow such a stupid thing. Don't tell me a GM feels attacked by pointing to game mechanics. So thank you for pushing the buttons even further with your very well ment comments about my sound of mail. I'm looking forward for more former-experts-by-support, but that was simply not my question in this thread.
And BTW if you treat Customers different just because they ask nicely you're doing bad support, that goes to the 2 people that might know it better. Either you stick to a corps policy on how you reimburse or not. You are certainly not the one that has to judge wether some1s anger is right or not. The art of support is to look behind anger if there is any.
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:17:00 -
[22]
There should be a warning at all times when clonejumping that doing so to the same destionation you're in will terminate the clone tucked away there and all its probable implants.
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Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
There should be a warning at all times when clonejumping that doing so to the same destionation you're in will terminate the clone tucked away there and all its probable implants.
Hey we're getting to the point. I am saying that i didn't get any warning. GM says there is one. Now what ? Because of the question if there will be one or not i'm the one thats losing. It's not like losing a ship or something because you could never really recreate on what really happened. In my and many other peoples cases like this here there is NO reason in the world or possibility you could use that mechanic to abuse anything or have an advantage over others. Thats all.
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Dugan Lee
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Obmud
And BTW if you treat Customers different just because they ask nicely you're doing bad support, that goes to the 2 people that might know it better. Either you stick to a corps policy on how you reimburse or not. You are certainly not the one that has to judge whether some1s anger is right or not. The art of support is to look behind anger if there is any.
Sorry - I just don't have the motivation to go to bat for a cust who can't control their anger. I like to reward nice people, not jerks.
Keep in mind that this is if the problem is their fault, like a completely incorrect address or bad billing information. Companies aren't obligated to take financial hits because someone doesn't know how to use the internet, but we do in most cases (cause usually people are pretty cool).
If it's our fault they can get as mad as they want and I'll hook em up to the best of my abilities.
If you call what I do bad CS then so be it.
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For the whiners:
New Game! |
Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dugan Lee
Originally by: Obmud
And BTW if you treat Customers different just because they ask nicely you're doing bad support, that goes to the 2 people that might know it better. Either you stick to a corps policy on how you reimburse or not. You are certainly not the one that has to judge whether some1s anger is right or not. The art of support is to look behind anger if there is any.
Sorry - I just don't have the motivation to go to bat for a cust who can't control their anger. I like to reward nice people, not jerks.
Keep in mind that this is if the problem is their fault, like a completely incorrect address or bad billing information. Companies aren't obligated to take financial hits because someone doesn't know how to use the internet, but we do in most cases (cause usually people are pretty cool).
If it's our fault they can get as mad as they want and I'll hook em up to the best of my abilities.
If you call what I do bad CS then so be it.
You seem to forget that you are not there to reward people, you are there to solve problems. Take it personal if you like. Second, i was not offending anyway in my mails, even if you try to interprete it that way. CCP Support has always been on topic in their support and it has always been good so far when i needed it, although i don't get whats happening here.
The question still remains. Is it logic if you clone JUMP (jumping means you go from A to B) that your CURRENT body replaces the other ? I say no.
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Dugan Lee
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:52:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Dugan Lee on 25/04/2006 15:57:33
Originally by: Obmud
Originally by: Dugan Lee
Originally by: Obmud
And BTW if you treat Customers different just because they ask nicely you're doing bad support, that goes to the 2 people that might know it better. Either you stick to a corps policy on how you reimburse or not. You are certainly not the one that has to judge whether some1s anger is right or not. The art of support is to look behind anger if there is any.
Sorry - I just don't have the motivation to go to bat for a cust who can't control their anger. I like to reward nice people, not jerks.
Keep in mind that this is if the problem is their fault, like a completely incorrect address or bad billing information. Companies aren't obligated to take financial hits because someone doesn't know how to use the internet, but we do in most cases (cause usually people are pretty cool).
If it's our fault they can get as mad as they want and I'll hook em up to the best of my abilities.
If you call what I do bad CS then so be it.
You seem to forget that you are not there to reward people, you are there to solve problems. Take it personal if you like. Second, i was not offending anyway in my mails, even if you try to interprete it that way. CCP Support has always been on topic in their support and it has always been good so far when i needed it, although i don't get whats happening here.
The question still remains. Is it logic if you clone JUMP (jumping means you go from A to B) that your CURRENT body replaces the other ? I say no.
I don't forget that at all, but I'm also not an automaton and it does bother me when someone makes a stupid mistake and then thinks it's someone elseÆs responsibility; not only that but they have the gall to demand compensation. I'm not roboCSguy, if someone's nice, I'll respond accordingly, and vice verse. This was my original point. Your emailing a person, not a robot. Right or wrong, it would behoove you to understand that a decision may be based on your tone.
We'll agree to disagree on the CS points. I do think it would be nice to have warning but I don't think you should get your implants back.
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For the whiners:
New Game! |
Mort Sinious
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:54:00 -
[27]
Well, I have a perfectly ane reason why I would clonejump into the same station:
I could have a multi bilion implant clone (wich i unfortunalety have not ) and a simple expandable clone. Now I decide to go out hunting and switch from my expensive clone to my expandable one. One goes to the closet the other comes out. Why not?
So, yes EVE doesn't function that way. But dont say it has to be stupidity to try a clonejump within sam station.
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Obmud
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mort Sinious
Well, I have a perfectly ane reason why I would clonejump into the same station:
I could have a multi bilion implant clone (wich i unfortunalety have not) and a simple expandable clone. Now I decide to go out hunting and switch from my expensive clone to my expandable one. One goes to the closet the other comes out. Why not?
So, yes EVE doesn't function that way. But dont say it has to be stupidity to try a clonejump within sam station.
That was actually what i was doing, i think everyone agrees on that :) The problem was, who would replace one WITH implants with one thats empty ? Makes no sense since implants are not limiting you in any way.
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Kylania
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Obmud
The question still remains. Is it logic if you clone JUMP (jumping means you go from A to B) that your CURRENT body replaces the other ? I say no.
It has nothing to do with logic. You assumed you knew how the system would work but didn't take the time to actually learn how the system actually worked.
I understand you're angry at yourself for not researching and fully understanding a new feature before using it, especially when the cost was your implants, but the fact remains is that by not paying attention and not reading the patch notes and sticky thread about the issue, you allowed this to happen. It's perfectly acceptable to expect a player to read information made available to them.
At least now you know, and as Duke would say "Knowing is half the battle!" 
--
Lil Miner |
turnschuh
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:03:00 -
[30]
poor GMs, need to read all that whining :(
why do you flame GMs?
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