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NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante
Doobie Den
2
   |
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please stop just listening to PvP wormhole players.
Listening to the likes of down the pipe podcast and others all csm and ccp talk about is how to kill / gank bears.
Leave wh mechanics as they are. To Hell with PvP players. If they had balls they would only shoot people that could shoot back |
The Cue
Applied Agoraphobia
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Have seen better trolls before. 3/10 |
Grim Dredtog
End-of-Line
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree, can't we all just offline our guns, repackage our drones, break out the barges and just mine? Maybe some gas mining to break up the monotony?
Must the killing go on? |
Rob Benson
Sky Fighters
72
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think you are generous with that 3/10, Ill come in with a 2/10
Skyriders, ride on! |
Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo
Red Coat Conspiracy
1218
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
Please stop just listening to PvP wormhole players.
Firstly, may I inquire as to your intended audience? Many, might I say nearly all PVP wormhole residents partake in the PVE aspect of the wormhole community. If your intended audience in PVE wormholers exclusively, do you think this is the proper forum for this stance? Also, what would you intend to achieve by attacking PVP wormholers on the forums?
Listening to the likes of down the pipe podcast and others all csm and ccp talk about is how to kill / gank bears.
I will be visiting DTP Podcast this weekend, and having listened to their broadcasts for quite a long time (read: all of their podcasts), I'd posit that either you are unfamiliar with them and their podcast or misunderstanding their purpose. Please illustrate the "CSM and CCP talk" regarding how to kill/gank bears, with references, data, and supporting evidence?
Leave wh mechanics as they are. To Hell with PvP players. If they had balls they would only shoot people that could shoot back
This is simply an angry personal attack against members of this community. I'll leave the interpretation and intended response to those with more willingness to engage on your level of forum play. Cheers!
CSM9 Candidate | Twitter: @autoritare | Gmail: [email protected]
Campaign Thread: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325889
Wormhole Discussion: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326273 |
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante
Doobie Den
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hmm... Listening to dtp podcast wh town hall got me a little kissed off.
I am not against PvP. It is fun and I do not want it removed.
My complaint is that any change to wh space always revolves around making it more PvP centric and removing carebear corporation ability to operate.
In the long run, because you are too lazy to scan further down the pipe or simply want to be able to gank everything without them having a chance to escape, you will have even less targets. |
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante
Doobie Den
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
No. 1: yes I believe the Wormhole Forum is the correct place for a Wormhole Forum post.
No. 2: I have listened to the complete back-catalogue of DTP. It is only the most recent I am annoyed with due to 3 csm members talking out the wrong end imo. |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
312
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:My complaint is that any change to wh space always revolves around making it more PvP centric and removing carebear corporation ability to operate.
In the long run, because you are too lazy to scan further down the pipe or simply want to be able to gank everything without them having a chance to escape, you will have even less targets. That must be why the WH population seems to be increasing, why there is more strong pvp groups and why they have bigger KBs. Those terrible pvpers are clearly ruining the game.
But if you have better ideas and solutions to current issues and challanges, I strongly encourage you to share them with us.
W-Space Realtor |
Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo
Red Coat Conspiracy
1218
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
No. 1: yes I believe the Wormhole Forum is the correct place for a Wormhole Forum post.
Do you feel that these forums will allow you to reach your intended audience, or do you prefer to just take an aggressive position against the much more prevalent "PVP wormholers" you mentioned?
No. 2: I have listened to the complete back-catalogue of DTP. It is only the most recent I am annoyed with due to 3 csm members talking out the wrong end imo.
I can't speak on Bronya and Spear's behalf, but DTP Podcast simply recorded and posted the Townhall meeting. I sincerely agree with you that the Townhall could have been conducted in a better fashion, however I wouldn't put fault on the group that was only recording and then shared the unedited meeting, as promised. This meeting was a product of the current CSM, with the entire community invited, and a couple non-wormhole CSM delegates who took time to attend.
CSM9 Candidate | Twitter: @autoritare | Gmail: [email protected]
Campaign Thread: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325889
Wormhole Discussion: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326273 |
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante
Doobie Den
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
I agree, it does seem there are more in WH space at the moment. Likely due to the slight safety the new overlay brought. The removal of which is the point of y rant. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
623
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Isn't bearing in safety (until WHs came along) what nullsec was invented for? |
MadbaM
Hard Knocks Inc.
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 18:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
Leave wh mechanics as they are. To Hell with PvP players. If they had balls they would only shoot people that could shoot back
You Know Nothing, Jon Snow, we shoot everyone because our balls are huge. If you had a waiter pair you would defend your care baring ways with guns instead of forum tiers.
|
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
90
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 19:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:Please stop just listening to PvP wormhole players.
Listening to the likes of down the pipe podcast and others all csm and ccp talk about is how to kill / gank bears.
Leave wh mechanics as they are. To Hell with PvP players. If they had balls they would only shoot people that could shoot back
I should point out by that logic PvE players would go to hell, since they slaughter poor, defenseless AI-ships in their thousands without remorse.
OK, some PvP players are assholes, but some PvE players are, too. Everyone is an ******* in this fine game we play!
In short: Please continue CSM and CCP, if you annoy people like the OP, you're on the right path.  |
Tyrant Scorn
84
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 19:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
I kinda see where NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante is coming from. The overall voice of wormholers are the voice of PvPers. So I get what kind of message that might send and how that might come across to people on the outside of that circle.
Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast:
Http://www.legacyofacapsuleer
Editor On EveNews24:
Http://www.evenews24.com |
Tyrant Scorn
84
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 19:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
MadbaM wrote: instead of forum tiers.
It's tears...
Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast:
Http://www.legacyofacapsuleer
Editor On EveNews24:
Http://www.evenews24.com |
Klarion Sythis
Sky Fighters
236
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Those who strictly PvE in wormholes seem to be less vocal, presumably because they simply don't interact with the community. Wormhole PvE can be done solo, or with a couple of friends. There's no reason to band 20 or 30 people together for PvE, but PvP scales all the way up to the thousands in null.
Only incursions really created the need for enough numbers to make it into a community. Those who don't voice their opinions will not be heard, even if they represent a significant portion of the population. |
Le'Mon Tichim
End-of-Line
132
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:I kinda see where NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante is coming from. The overall voice of wormholers are the voice of PvPers. So I get what kind of message that might send and how that might come across to people on the outside of that circle.
Well, it's hard to be taken seriously if all you do is hide behind shields and hoard isk...
Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful.
http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/ |
Tyrant Scorn
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Le'Mon Tichim wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:I kinda see where NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante is coming from. The overall voice of wormholers are the voice of PvPers. So I get what kind of message that might send and how that might come across to people on the outside of that circle. Well, it's hard to be taken seriously if all you do is hide behind shields and hoard isk...
You have a point but this is the same argument as the highsec wardeccers.
Who are we to judge some elses playstyle ? If that is their preferred style of play, who are you to say they have to un-pos to fight ? Personally I don't worry about these silly little issues. If people want to play this way, then they are free to do so. That goes for any type of playstyle in Eve Online.
We can b*tch and moan about it on the forums but it's not going to change a damn thing. You can't force people to undock or un-pos to fight.
P.S: Why do I get likes on the troll post and not on the actual constructive post that required me to access and use my braincells... This is worrying to me...
Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast:
Http://www.legacyofacapsuleer
Editor On EveNews24:
Http://www.evenews24.com |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
Ragnarok.
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:Please stop just listening to PvP wormhole players.
Listening to the likes of down the pipe podcast and others all csm and ccp talk about is how to kill / gank bears.
Leave wh mechanics as they are. To Hell with PvP players. If they had balls they would only shoot people that could shoot back
As others have mentioned, EVERYONE in WH's does PVE. There may be a few people who make their money from market or other means, but the grand majority are still making their money where they live. I know that I do anyway.
So, why only listen to the PVP groups?
Firstly, the PVP alliances are actually the largest single groups in WH's. They represent the needs/wishes of hundreds of capsuleers each. As such, it's time efficient for CCP to contact just a few major alliances' directors, who will be aware of the feelings of their line members. To get the same number of people represented would require a LARGE group of leaders if each only represents 10-25 people each. It's the same reason that CCP talks to alliance leaders in other parts of the game. The basic concept of representative republics is at play here.
Secondly, as you've illustrated marvelously, PVE groups will rarely push for conflict drives. Generally they would rather be able to be completely safe in their money making and they cry deluges of delicious tears when someone forces them to "shoot back". That said, I disagree with people having the ability to make fast/efficient amounts of ISK without a commensurate level of risk for themselves. This is part of why incursions are broken IMHO. If you want ISK without risk, I suggest you stick to incursions/other hisec bearing.
Remember that conflict drivers lead to content. This game is open-ended, and without anything to create inter-player content it becomes extremely stale and repetitious. CCP thrives when the game has content, and loses players gradually as they become tired of "the same old" over and over. Conflict drivers help to break up the monotony.
Thirdly, WTF are you doing in WH's flying something that "can['t] shoot back"? Again, WH's aren't a right, they're a privilege that you must defend if you want to keep. This is a primary sacrament of the Church of Bob. If you're not willing to defend your territory, then you will not continue to live there. This is why we in Ragnarok ALWAYS bring a fight whenever possible. Even if it's just suiciding a couple Ishtars into a superior fleet, we respect our neighbors enough to bring content to them when they are so gracious as to come visit.
TL;DR: WH's are a nasty dangerous place, and I encourage them to remain so. Don't attempt to turn them into Wowholes. This isn't the themepark game you're looking for. You want that crap, go back to hisec. Also, nerf incursion income. |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
Ragnarok.
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Le'Mon Tichim wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:I kinda see where NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante is coming from. The overall voice of wormholers are the voice of PvPers. So I get what kind of message that might send and how that might come across to people on the outside of that circle. Well, it's hard to be taken seriously if all you do is hide behind shields and hoard isk... You have a point but this is the same argument as the highsec wardeccers. Who are we to judge some elses playstyle ? If that is their preferred style of play, who are you to say they have to un-pos to fight ? Personally I don't worry about these silly little issues. If people want to play this way, then they are free to do so. That goes for any type of playstyle in Eve Online. We can b*tch and moan about it on the forums but it's not going to change a damn thing. You can't force people to undock or un-pos to fight. P.S: Why do I get likes on the troll post and not on the actual constructive post that required me to access and use my braincells... This is worrying to me...
Right, but we're also free to evict people who refuse to defend their territory. That sword cuts both ways. |
Tyrant Scorn
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Right, but we're also free to evict people who refuse to defend their territory. That sword cuts both ways.
I didn't read anything about it not being ok... so what's your point ? The OP didn't mention evictions at all... He/She was merely trying to point out that the PvP wormholers are the most vocal.
Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast:
Http://www.legacyofacapsuleer
Editor On EveNews24:
Http://www.evenews24.com |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters
3083
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
As a WH PVPer, I think you're classifying us in a really inaccurate way.
We do not want ANY changes that make it easier to kill carebears (seriously, name one). We either want changes that make it easier to get fights, or we don't want any changes at all.
Personally I was very against making grav sites into anoms for example. I thinks it's fkn stupid and makes WH mining extremely unviable even though I have zero intention to ever mine in my EVE career.
On the other hand, I hate the fact that you now need to put in literally zero effort to detect new sigs since they jusp pop up automatically. If I have to put in time and effort to scan them out on my end, you should need to put in at least some effort to detect them on your end.
I actually appreciate that you posted. It's what Bane's been talking about in a few threads now, the lower class and carebear people in WH space are far too quiet.
That said, you need to understand that while you playstyle may be to farm/mine/PI/whatever and just want to be left alone, It's my playstyle to make doing so as difficult as I possibly can for you if you dont show me some respect and at least sometimes come try to kill me.
As such, I'm not going to support any changes that only make things easier for risk averse people that have zero benefit to WH space overall.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Tyrant Scorn
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:As a WH PVPer, I think you're classifying us in a really inaccurate way.
We do not want ANY changes that make it easier to kill carebears (seriously, name one). We either want changes that make it easier to get fights, or we don't want any changes at all.
Personally I was very against making grav sites into anoms for example. I thinks it's fkn stupid and makes WH mining extremely unviable even though I have zero intention to ever mine in my EVE career.
On the other hand, I hate the fact that you now need to put in literally zero effort to detect new sigs since they jusp pop up automatically. If I have to put in time and effort to scan them out on my end, you should need to put in at least some effort to detect them on your end.
I actually appreciate that you posted. It's what Bane's been talking about in a few threads now, the lower class and carebear people in WH space are far too quiet.
That said, you need to understand that while you playstyle may be to farm/mine/PI/whatever and just want to be left alone, It's my playstyle to make doing so as difficult as I possibly can for you if you dont show me some respect and at least sometimes come try to kill me.
As such, I'm not going to support any changes that only make things easier for risk averse people that have zero benefit to WH space overall.
Wow... I... I... Damn it... I agree !
Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast:
Http://www.legacyofacapsuleer
Editor On EveNews24:
Http://www.evenews24.com |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
Ragnarok.
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:As a WH PVPer, I think you're classifying us in a really inaccurate way.
We do not want ANY changes that make it easier to kill carebears (seriously, name one). We either want changes that make it easier to get fights, or we don't want any changes at all.
Personally I was very against making grav sites into anoms for example. I thinks it's fkn stupid and makes WH mining extremely unviable even though I have zero intention to ever mine in my EVE career.
On the other hand, I hate the fact that you now need to put in literally zero effort to detect new sigs since they jusp pop up automatically. If I have to put in time and effort to scan them out on my end, you should need to put in at least some effort to detect them on your end.
I actually appreciate that you posted. It's what Bane's been talking about in a few threads now, the lower class and carebear people in WH space are far too quiet.
That said, you need to understand that while you playstyle may be to farm/mine/PI/whatever and just want to be left alone, It's my playstyle to make doing so as difficult as I possibly can for you if you dont show me some respect and at least sometimes come try to kill me.
As such, I'm not going to support any changes that only make things easier for risk averse people that have zero benefit to WH space overall.
I agree. WH mining is clearly unviable for the reasons above. Grav sites should require scans, refining should be fixed (75%? Really?) and maybe other bonuses as well (perhaps have the +10% ores for a start?).
I don't intend to mine ever, but at the same time it doesn't make sense to me that it should be so much more efficient/safe in hisec than it is in a WH. I think it should be more safe, but less efficient. This goes for all carebearing. There should be increased rewards for increased risk. CCP seems to agree with this concept generally, but in practice there is much left to be desired. |
RudinV
Syndicate of Death
BLOOD UNION
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Carebears came for isk. So what can they suggest else than isk/hr improvements. Literally nothing. And no, not everyone do pve in w-space |
Karen Galeo
Sin Factory
Infinite Anarchy
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
I don't intend to mine ever, but at the same time it doesn't make sense to me that it should be so much more efficient/safe in hisec than it is in a WH. I think it should be more safe, but less efficient. This goes for all carebearing. There should be increased rewards for increased risk. CCP seems to agree with this concept generally, but in practice there is much left to be desired.
Hi!
I'm Karen, and I'm one of the wormholer CSM9 candidates. :) I certainly agree; I did enough mining in high sec to pay for my first drake, and since then I have done almost zero mining. Just not my cup of tea; it isn't the game I want to play.
I am glad to see this thread, and the comments it is getting; for my part, I see a lot of people from the larger wormhole alliances here on the forums and not enough input from the PvE focused players and the people living at the surface of w-space. We're all part of the same community, though.
For my part, I do not think people should be *forced* to play the game in a different way. There *are* some risks that are unavoidable - if you are flying a ship in space, there is a chance someone can find you. Some things, though, are horrible ideas - like putting the assembly arrays on the outside of the POS shield. Something like that increases the cost of operating out of a POS so high that it'd drive people out of w-space.
I do think that the discovery scanner should stop automatically refreshing entirely; having a pilot with probes out is a solid counter to "mystery gank fleets", as well as being the counter to the AFK cloaking that nullsec cries about so much. >.> |
Alundil
Sky Fighters
423
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Grim Dredtog wrote:I agree, can't we all just offline our guns, repackage our drones, break out the barges and just mine? Maybe some gas mining to break up the monotony?
Must the killing go on?
What about the children?
Clone mechanics enchancements
Deep Space Probe Revival |
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
582
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 22:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:As a WH PVPer, I think you're classifying us in a really inaccurate way.
We do not want ANY changes that make it easier to kill carebears (seriously, name one). We either want changes that make it easier to get fights, or we don't want any changes at all.
Personally I was very against making grav sites into anoms for example. I thinks it's fkn stupid and makes WH mining extremely unviable even though I have zero intention to ever mine in my EVE career.
On the other hand, I hate the fact that you now need to put in literally zero effort to detect new sigs since they jusp pop up automatically. If I have to put in time and effort to scan them out on my end, you should need to put in at least some effort to detect them on your end.
I actually appreciate that you posted. It's what Bane's been talking about in a few threads now, the lower class and carebear people in WH space are far too quiet.
That said, you need to understand that while you playstyle may be to farm/mine/PI/whatever and just want to be left alone, It's my playstyle to make doing so as difficult as I possibly can for you if you dont show me some respect and at least sometimes come try to kill me.
As such, I'm not going to support any changes that only make things easier for risk averse people that have zero benefit to WH space overall.
I have to agree with Jack here and say - yes, the PVE side of w-space is as important as the pvp side, but there isn't one without the other.
The nature of eve will always be for one group to go and disrupt another, by any and all means avaliable to them.
Right now we're in a spot where some changes that have been made to the game makes it easier then it was before to avoid confrontation with other players (that want to kill you), hence preventing pvp from happening. This is something the PVP'ers want to adress, as the situation wasn't like that before.
We're not after carebears, specifically, we're after everyone. PVP in eve happens most often when someone makes a mistake or is not paying attention and there is someone there to exploit that mistake and punish them for it. The current state of the mechanics renders making some mistakes harder because the system takes care of (for examle) notifying you of new signatures automatically.
W-space is not supposed to be safe at all, it is supposed to be the most hostile environment in eve, and you as a PVE player signed up for it, you know abot the risks. I think the thing that community wants is simply equal terms for both PVE and PVP players. Equal risk vs reward. Right now it is not very balanced, hence all the discussion.
CSM9 Candidate: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326853
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/asayanami
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Asayanami
|
Glyndi
Doom Generation
THE H0NEYBADGER
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:I kinda see where NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante is coming from. The overall voice of wormholers are the voice of PvPers. So I get what kind of message that might send and how that might come across to people on the outside of that circle.
Then the people on the outside of the circle need to get involved more in discussions. Instead the OP came in here raging about how the only vocal people, in this the best EVE community, are PvPers. Don't get mad at anyone except the PvEers who say nothing at all.
Collect your people and start voicing your concerns as well. No one is going to speak for you. |
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante
Doobie Den
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
There are some great points here.
For one, my preference is no change to current wh game mechanics. I believe it is working very well for both PvP and pve.
The problem I have is that when change is discussed it is heavily bias in favour of PvP. I like both so I would like to see , of there has to be change, a ballanced change for both play styles.
As mentioned in someone's post, pve players tend to get overshadowed due to their groups being smaller then what is required to have an active and capable PvP force... So pve is not heard by ccp.
One thing to point out is that of your chain does not have targets, it only takes a system or two of scanning in kspace to find another chain... Not to mention rolling your static. |
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