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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.27 12:16:00 -
[31]
FOF only attack ships fighting you. Once you cloak, your FOF missiles wont detonate.
In a bomber you certainly do not want to be targeted and attacked for being able to fight. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |

cytomatrix
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Posted - 2006.04.27 12:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Eudoxus Seems odd to me that it is not doable - interceptor and bomber are the same class of ship. One built for speed, one built for launching cruises (which are vastly higher damage than rockets). I would like to think/hope/wish that if I decloaked 50km from you or so that by the time you were into your optimal range you would already be chowing down on devestator cruise t2 number 4 and going pop. Even if not on that one - as the prior duo experience shows is not the case - the 6th one ought to do the trick. Seems odd that I would be dead by then. Granted I am not equiped with armor hardeners etc. The long and short is I think bombers get the very short end of the stick compared to interceptors and hope for a 'look at' some day from ccp.
Yes, because death before you can DO anything as the interceptor is SUCH fun. Basibally, you're saying that the only possible response to a bomber should be "warp out instantly".
Bombers need to lose the bonus versus frigs at the very least. It's stupid that they're good against other frigs....they should ditch the stealth gimmick, get AF resists and hit points and be able to mount 3-4 of the new heavy rocket launchers CCP have talked about.
For hitting BS, not frigates.
BOMBER. Sigh.
Whenever someone mentions t2 cruise precisions and Stealth bomber you show up and say your "OMG stealth bombers are stupid blah blah blah " bull****. Seriously whats your problem with Stealth bombers? They are not overpowered. You need alot skills to fly it properly. They are not I-WIN button. Still you want to remove stealth bombers? why? Is your interceptor getting omgwtfpwned by a Stealth bomber? Only stupid interceptor pilots get killed by solo Stealth bombers. If you want a bs killing frigate ask ccp to create one for you instead of changing an existing ship. Leave the stealth bombers alone!!! ___________________________________________________
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cytomatrix
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Posted - 2006.04.27 13:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Parallax Error
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yes, because death before you can DO anything as the interceptor is SUCH fun. Basibally, you're saying that the only possible response to a bomber should be "warp out instantly".
Bombers need to lose the bonus versus frigs at the very least. It's stupid that they're good against other frigs....they should ditch the stealth gimmick, get AF resists and hit points and be able to mount 3-4 of the new heavy rocket launchers CCP have talked about.
For hitting BS, not frigates.
BOMBER. Sigh.
I think this is the best idea for Bombers, or one stage further. Using this a a template, re-do the Stealth bomber to be a weaker tanking and hitting cloaked version and then add an Assault Bomber as well.
Yes this is the best idea for Bombers not stealth bombers. I say leave the stealth bombers alone and add an assault bomber. ___________________________________________________
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Eudoxus
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Posted - 2006.04.27 16:41:00 -
[34]
Yup, if you want a 'bomber' for going for big ships then you need to make something else. I made the mistake of using a stealth bomber in the manner suggested - fleet op and hit the big ships. Funnily enough, the ship getting hit determined who was doing the most damage and I was made primary and 1 second later I was dead. So, if that is the intended 'role' of a stealth bomber, I will pass! And adding some resists would not help in that situation. Suicide cruise missile launcher (6 in total) was not really a great use for a stealth bomber. To me this ship is exactly meant to kill frigs. You have to wait in hiding for hours on end waiting for someone in the right ship to come along without an insta and without a low rack of warp core stabs and maybe you can get a kill. If this is uber, then I want a uber uber uber uber uber ship in its place. Not a 'no t2 cruises' or cruises at all with a few lousy resists. As everyone above has mentioned, only a stupid interceptor pilot gets killed by a solo bomber - so a bomber is a ship that can kill ships under its class but not even in its own class. Gee, that is peachy , lets hit it with a nerf bat!
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.04.27 16:57:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Eudoxus Yup, if you want a 'bomber' for going for big ships then you need to make something else. I made the mistake of using a stealth bomber in the manner suggested - fleet op and hit the big ships. Funnily enough, the ship getting hit determined who was doing the most damage and I was made primary and 1 second later I was dead.
Dont mean to tell you off but I seriously doubt that "the ship getting determined who was doing the most damage and I was made primary" blah blah blah.
Simply he had autotarget back or something. You locked him as secondary (cause your missles fly slower than hubrid charges or projectile ammo or photons). Then in a break when he couldnt find the primary he just activated his guns on you. Not primary ... more like collateral dmg.
I once had the pleasure of locking a manticore in a snipper Mega. Only 4 out of my 7 guns managed to activate (and this was at 110km with Iridium wasnt using Spike at the time) and ka-boom. 
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Eudoxus
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Posted - 2006.04.27 17:04:00 -
[36]
Could be that Crellion - but I don't plan on taking it out for another 19 runs to get a statistically somewhat valid sample size I have some money but I don't want to flush it all like that!
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.04.27 17:11:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Ithildin on 27/04/2006 17:12:47
Originally by: Testy Mctest So,
Cruise Max Dmg = Base*Cruise*Warhead Ups*Ship Bonus = 300*1.25*1.1*1.25 = 515.625
.....this is as far as I got cos Im busy and now I have to lock up. Lets see if someone beats me to finishing this before I get home later tonight :P
That means max damage is 515.625*2 = 1031.265 from a non-Manticore.
Grabbing your personal generic interceptor, the total HP is around 1582 (Taranis) before skills. Already it becomes apparent that two cruise missiles aren't going to cut it. Add in skills and you have 1977.5 hit points, of which 1196.25 is armour or shield. Here we see that two volleys isn't going to cut it without doing much math at all. We do see, however, that a Manticore with the correct missile choice is going to be able to one-volley a weaker and will probably be able to two-volley any other interceptor.
No: Stealth Bombers can't one-volley Interceptors with T1 or precision cruise. It IS possible with Fury cruise, Manticore, and target painters, though, as they do 20% more damage.
Note that unless he's moving you'll be able to do near max damage because the missiles coming from a stealth bomber has a 0.167 modifier on explosion radius. This means 50.1 meters for a T1 cruise missile.
I'll leave personal opinions out of this for now. Testy can fix the missing parts of my post when he gets home ;) New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards) |

Mighty Dread
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Posted - 2006.04.27 17:22:00 -
[38]
I find with some ships in EVE it's like...they don't get worked out to completion. Meaning they almost do what they are suppose to do well but not really. When I think of a Stealth Bomber I think of somethin that can fly in fast under radar, deliver a blow, and fly away. As the Stealth Bomber uses mainly cruise missles it makes sense that it's meant to attack/weaken larger ships. Considering how many volleys it would take to take out a BS the Stealth Bomber would have to decloak, hit, cloak and repeat several times all the while trying to avoid being locked just once. It would require skill beyond just training the books, and perhaps some luck as well. So yeah these ships need to be optimized or else they'll end up in the same scrapyard as Destroyers.
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Turix
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Posted - 2006.04.27 17:35:00 -
[39]
Any competetant inty pilot can kill any bomber any time.
For example my kill rate 1v1 vs bombers (me in inty) is 12 killed 0 lost. I rarley loose shield.
IHMO Bomber is a bad inty killer solo, in packs tho *drools*
5 bombers can kill pretty much anything 
My Videos 
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Car Wars
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Posted - 2006.04.27 17:36:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Car Wars on 27/04/2006 17:36:15 Rant->People are always talking crap about the stealthbomber. Just get it into you mind: It aint a noob ship, people talking crap are mostly the noobs who have not flown the ship or dont have the skill points. <- end rant
The manticore is longrange, the rest is close (<40km) range. Below this you can use guns and missiles, cloak and still hit. People who dont have guns on the close range stealth bomber dont know the ship to well, better dont fly the ship.
Think the stealhbombers are the only ship that really need to be flown in groups. Not solo, or you must be very pleased with popping shuttles and noob tech 1 frigs. Very cool ship when flown in groups and your regular final blow magnet.
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Gindar
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Posted - 2006.04.30 23:35:00 -
[41]
hi all,
i have just finished doing the math.
manticore stealth bomber with:
3x cruise launchers I 2x ballistic control II 2x sensor booster
cruise missiles V warhead upgrades IV signature analysis V covert ops IV
and required skills for manticore
can easily decloak and fire at a taranis, 1 hit kill using:
1x cataclysm fury cruise missile (thermal) 2x devastator fury cruise missile (explosive)
i carefully chose damage types.. taranis has so few shields that the EM would punch through shields and not do very much damage to armor. so thermal was more damage overall. taranis has standard 10% explosive resist for armor so explosive damage type was used. i have not tested this but it can do upwards of 2000 damage total per volley with the ballistic controls. the key is to max out your skills and use ballistic controls for maxed out damage.
sorry i can't show my work i used a calculator.
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Litus Arowar
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Posted - 2006.05.01 16:46:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gindar hi all,
i have just finished doing the math.
manticore stealth bomber with:
3x cruise launchers I 2x ballistic control II 2x sensor booster
cruise missiles V warhead upgrades IV signature analysis V covert ops IV
and required skills for manticore
can easily decloak and fire at a taranis, 1 hit kill using:
1x cataclysm fury cruise missile (thermal) 2x devastator fury cruise missile (explosive)
i carefully chose damage types.. taranis has so few shields that the EM would punch through shields and not do very much damage to armor. so thermal was more damage overall. taranis has standard 10% explosive resist for armor so explosive damage type was used. i have not tested this but it can do upwards of 2000 damage total per volley with the ballistic controls. the key is to max out your skills and use ballistic controls for maxed out damage.
sorry i can't show my work i used a calculator.
and how do you propose fitting all that? as far as I know, even with maxed fitting skills (and covops) you have 0 grid left (0.59) after fitting 3 arbalest cruise launchers... so you can't fit sensor boosters or ballistics till you add a MAPC, meaning you only have one BCU
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Gindar
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Posted - 2006.05.01 18:02:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Litus Arowar
Originally by: Gindar hi all,
i have just finished doing the math.
manticore stealth bomber with:
3x cruise launchers I 2x ballistic control II 2x sensor booster
cruise missiles V warhead upgrades IV signature analysis V covert ops IV
and required skills for manticore
can easily decloak and fire at a taranis, 1 hit kill using:
1x cataclysm fury cruise missile (thermal) 2x devastator fury cruise missile (explosive)
i carefully chose damage types.. taranis has so few shields that the EM would punch through shields and not do very much damage to armor. so thermal was more damage overall. taranis has standard 10% explosive resist for armor so explosive damage type was used. i have not tested this but it can do upwards of 2000 damage total per volley with the ballistic controls. the key is to max out your skills and use ballistic controls for maxed out damage.
sorry i can't show my work i used a calculator.
and how do you propose fitting all that? as far as I know, even with maxed fitting skills (and covops) you have 0 grid left (0.59) after fitting 3 arbalest cruise launchers... so you can't fit sensor boosters or ballistics till you add a MAPC, meaning you only have one BCU
hi, this time i did the maths and show my work. start by training the basic fitting skills. engineering V electronics V
then do the weapon upgrades. weapon upgrades V advanced weapon upgrades IV
then do manticore bonuses. caldari frigate V covert ops IV
this gives :
245*1.25=306.25 CPU 30*1.25=37.5 Power Grid
we have Cruise Launcher I that requires 1250 Power Grid. Tech 1 and named all require same amount. Now let's look at how the bonuses reduce it.
Raw Req*Adv Weap Upg Lvl 4*Caldari Frig V reduction*Covert Ops V reduction
1250*(1-(4*.02))*(1-((19.65*5)/100))*(1-(5*.05))=15.09375
yerr it looks like you were right 
however it's not as tight as you say. i will have to finish training and see for myself.
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cytomatrix
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Posted - 2006.05.01 20:07:00 -
[44]
Edited by: cytomatrix on 01/05/2006 20:07:34
Originally by: Gindar
Originally by: Litus Arowar
Originally by: Gindar hi all, 1250*(1-(4*.02))*(1-((19.65*5)/100))*(1-(5*.05))=15.09375
yerr it looks like you were right 
however it's not as tight as you say. i will have to finish training and see for myself.
Thats not correct, I dont know the formula but with covertops lvl3 and no advanced weapon upgrades my cruise launcher's powergrid is 13.5625 MW. ___________________________________________________
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Gindar
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Posted - 2006.05.01 21:25:00 -
[45]
arggh i don't understand.
please someone help me, i did the math again and i see no way of getting it to go below 15. according to what you're saying, you're getting roughly 15% reduced powergrid per level of covert ops. i did the math...
21.875*x*x*x=13.5625 x^3=.62 x=.62^1/3 x=.85
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.05.01 21:34:00 -
[46]
A couple of questions here for ppl who use target painters with their bombers and precision cruise. Do they actually make any diference at all? The reason I ask is I have tried to use them but found no improvement at all.
I thought the bonus that isn't mentioned in the ships description but shows on fitted cruise that reduces the explosion radius cannot be reduced any further. So doesn't this means precision cruise dont really work with them. Is this the case?
Also the problem with ceptors is they fly so fast that by the time the missiles detonate the ship has travelled so far past that they do little damage at all even though the signature of a MWD Ceptor is well over 100. So since the speed of the ship is the problem not the low signature do painters actually make a difference as well.
I have tested alot with various corpmates using all these (painters and precision) and found they didn't help on MWD'ing ceptors. Before anyone says get higher skills I'd like to add that mine are pretty high with most of the missile support skills at 5 and the 2 painting skills at 4 and 5. The ceptor pilots were only traveling around the 4km/s speed and not faster.
I did find the high damage cruise made a difference but only by a few HP's of damage but that was to be expected.
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2006.05.01 21:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson A couple of questions here for ppl who use target painters with their bombers and precision cruise. Do they actually make any diference at all? The reason I ask is I have tried to use them but found no improvement at all.
I thought the bonus that isn't mentioned in the ships description but shows on fitted cruise that reduces the explosion radius cannot be reduced any further. So doesn't this means precision cruise dont really work with them. Is this the case?
Also the problem with ceptors is they fly so fast that by the time the missiles detonate the ship has travelled so far past that they do little damage at all even though the signature of a MWD Ceptor is well over 100. So since the speed of the ship is the problem not the low signature do painters actually make a difference as well.
I have tested alot with various corpmates using all these (painters and precision) and found they didn't help on MWD'ing ceptors. Before anyone says get higher skills I'd like to add that mine are pretty high with most of the missile support skills at 5 and the 2 painting skills at 4 and 5. The ceptor pilots were only traveling around the 4km/s speed and not faster.
I did find the high damage cruise made a difference but only by a few HP's of damage but that was to be expected.
For your first question about target painters... you just need to look at the stats of your precision cruise and you will see they have a 20m explosion radius. Its allready smaller then any ship therefore a target painter will do nothing. (at least with my skills, it will be lower now i think, got the skill that helps with that to level 5 now).
second question: no its not the case, load both a precision and a normal missile look at its stats you will see the difference.
3rd question: Refer to question 1, small explosion radius so mwd or no mwd damage do to ships signature is the same, therfore it comes down to there speed. For me at least a Flat out mwd inty coming right at me i hit for almost nothing (like 10 damage or something), one thats orbiting 200+ damage a missile, one thats sitting still or not mwding i hit for crazy amounts. (again painters wont do anything, your missiles explosion radius is smaller then any ships signature radius).
lastly, yep painter should do nothing, your test were acurate , although next time it would be faster just to look at the missile information and save yourself some testing.... again never hurts to test though.
Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner. 
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.01 22:01:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/05/2006 22:02:44
Originally by: cytomatrix Whenever someone mentions t2 cruise precisions and Stealth bomber you show up and say your "OMG stealth bombers are stupid blah blah blah " bull****. Seriously whats your problem with Stealth bombers? They are not overpowered. You need alot skills to fly it properly. They are not I-WIN button. Still you want to remove stealth bombers? why? Is your interceptor getting omgwtfpwned by a Stealth bomber? Only stupid interceptor pilots get killed by solo Stealth bombers. If you want a bs killing frigate ask ccp to create one for you instead of changing an existing ship. Leave the stealth bombers alone!!!
No, actually prescisions have nothing to do with it, I did it long before prescisions to "JUST" bombers. And my particular Claw setup can ride out TWO bomber volleys, even from a Manticore.
What's broken is they're taking a chunk out of the role of the AF for no good reason, they have a hidden bonus against frigates and so on. That they NEED that hidden bonus to be useful. They're bombers. Bombers attack big things.
If some bombers want to keep a cloak, fine, but they all need to lose the cruise and get (more) heavy rocket launchers.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |

Gordon Red
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Posted - 2006.05.01 22:19:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Turix Any competetant inty pilot can kill any bomber any time.
For example my kill rate 1v1 vs bombers (me in inty) is 12 killed 0 lost. I rarley loose shield.
IHMO Bomber is a bad inty killer solo, in packs tho *drools*
5 bombers can kill pretty much anything 
IMHO this was the first usefull post in this thread! I don't understand why people flying ALONE in their bombers(and engange low cost ships like frigs(interceptors or not))?!? Stealth bombers are designed to shoot FIRST, not to fly ALONE shoot AND kill first AND fly away after the first shot.
Bring more bombers in and hunt in a pack => like submarines in the WW2 => one is lost => a pack wins!  ____________________________________________________________
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.05.01 22:40:00 -
[50]
4 LOM thanks for you reply.
As regards the question about precisions I did allready know that but it was a question to the peeps on this thread who said they use them. I have checked the stats of both but wondered if there was something obvious that I missed. Plus sometimes the attributes in the info are wrong or confusing at best (not necessarily for these mods though).
Also afaik your equiped missiles won't show the effect of painters on them as they don't effect the missiles but rather the sig of the target. That is why I asked about ppl's success with them because as I said it seems that its the speed thats the factor when hitting Ceptors.
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Ahric
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Posted - 2006.05.02 02:30:00 -
[51]
Here is what Cruise Missile Launcher I's use on my manticore, and I only have Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3 and Covert Ops 4.
http://www.oxygenwasters.com/eve/manticore.JPG
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twit brent
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Posted - 2006.05.02 11:28:00 -
[52]
Even if you can fit 3 cruise launcher I's and 2 ballistic controls can u even use tech II missiles in them?
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.05.02 11:56:00 -
[53]
Originally by: twit brent Even if you can fit 3 cruise launcher I's and 2 ballistic controls can u even use tech II missiles in them?
No. To use T2 missiles you need T2 launchers. You cannot use them with named, faction or officer launchers either.
The same goes for gun turrets as well.
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