I am reasonably certain that more than one CCP exec stays awake late at night, worrying that Star Citizen, or some other like game, has game mechanics and moderators that actively discourage the type of sociopathic behaviour that CCP embraces and celebrates.

When that game is finally built, even if it half as visually appealing as Eve, and one-quarter the depth of the Eve, will be the catalyst of an exodus of paying customers. No doubt a significant percentage of the Eve player population will cheer that exodus, giddy that all the "carebear losers have finally left THEIR game", but the accountants know better.

I eagerly anticipate that day as well, but clearly not for the reasons that the myopic sadists do.

I think you're vision of human behaviour is mostly based on ideals and dreams instead of reality then.

EvE being a sandbox, experiences are variable and not as uniformly stark and dire as you profess, as in real life there is good and bad everywhere. The difference (and what makes EvE special), is that CCP doesn't bubble-wrap you from the bad (not completely yet anyway...), it's up to YOU and all new players to put brain and vast web resources to bear in avoiding the bad, just like in real life.

However...

When you go from 'how do I..' or 'can someone help me', into crossing that heretical line of espousing 'things should be nerfed..remove ganking...' to suit your carebear refusal to learn, I must regrettably add a +1 to the Kill-It-Forward queue.

In fact, your heresy against HTFU was so extensive, I am forced to do something I have never done...I am actually adding a +2 to the Kill-It-Forward queue.

F

Personally I think that many Eve players will try both Star Citizen and eventually Elite Dangerous (because Elite), while continuing to play Eve. With the amount of hatred for Eve players on the SC forums I suspect that SC players are destined to live in interesting times.

Neither of them is going to kill Eve off, just as STO, Black Prophecy etc never killed Eve off, either through never materialising or being just plain bloody terrible.

TL;DR Star Citizen won't kill off Eve, it may leave a temporary dip in subscription numbers and snag all of the people that play Eve despite actually hating it, but it'll have no long lasting detrimental effects for CCP.

My worry is that CCP are backing a horse and letting the status quo be. This is effectively an "all clear to continue" nod from the heavens for dickery.

They *have* backed the wrong horse. They have very few cycles to abandon that idea as changes to the game will take far longer than the projected time line of new spaceship games will allow.

Exciting times from the side lines.

My wallet doesn't have any emotional attachment to a game that promotes detachment. Whoever wins gets my $

Yes, as are pirating and ganking.

Generally EVE players can be relied on to say that they're not against piracy "in principle" or piracy "in its place"; they're only opposed to "the kind of piracy that affects me".

Not to get too technical on all this, but there may be elements of EVE that you do not perceive as issues, owing to your current vantage point.

In another thread I took some pains to illustrate the ridiculous extremes some multiboxing ice-mining operations, for instance, have gone to.

Whereas from your perspective, you see a group of griefers and extortionists who's only goal is to ruin the lives of respectable, active and generally benign citizens of the EVE universe, from their perspective, owing to what they do, they all too often actually encounter just how many people there are out there exploiting (deliberately and maliciously) the high-sec mechanics of safety to leverage enormous of wealth.

Surely you agree that multiboxers that critical mass beyond a certain point of reasonability and sustainability, as well as botters, need to be addressed by the community, ingame, in some form or fashion?

Since you are not the one who is prepared to do anything about, as you are too busy doing other high-sec activities such as missioning or your own (hopefully respectable and reasonably active) mining operations, it falls upon others to do something.

Have you ever had the chance to talk one on one with cops that you know personally, about how what they see everyday (that most people don't, in large part thanks to the efforts of these cops to keep these fringe behaviors in check) affects their perception of society at large?

Here's an anecdote from my experience yesterday, if you care to read it.
It involves ice-mining and the behavior of players involved in it, and raises the question in one form atleast, of "who are actually the bad guys poisoning the community well with their attitude and behavior towards others:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4344248#post4344248

But even a noob in a mining barge is quite safe if he takes the necessary precautions to tank his vessel.
Ofc there is the possibility that he will be ganked anyways, but that would come at a net loss to the aggressors.

As to bumping, the miner can simply relocate his operation.
This kind of relocation of activities due to the intervention of other players is not unusual or counter EVE's general design principles.

In many ways miner bumping is not much different than a Mackinaw/Orca fleet showing up and starting to ferociously stripmine the hell out of exactly the one rock you had your puny lasers aimed at. Would you consider that griefing as well, and the acts of a "herd of dickheads", as you put it?

You can thank CCP for that, when the New Order was first started James wasn't trying to sell permits, he was bumping people because they were afk, and because he could. CCP stepped in and told him that this modus operandi wasn't acceptable, therefore James had a discussion with the GM about what was and what was not acceptable, it turns out that doing it with a profit motive was acceptable to CCP, and thus the New Order was born.

Turning it into a quasi religious cult was a stroke of genius, people who raged hard when ganked raged even harder when confronted with gankers preaching quasi religious dictats that make the lore of the Amarr Empire look like a childrens book.

Eh. I don't give a ****. I don't take kindly to someone coming in and arbitrarily removing content from a discussion because they don't like what's being said. The sad part is this particular member of ISD probably has a vested interest in keeping the info out of the public view for fear of certain entities being shed in a bad light.

Oh well. There goes a perfectly good threadnaught. Thanks ISD Ezwal!

Well there is one more thing...

Can we have your stuff?

So your plan is to get CCP to do all the protecting for you by banning people who attack you from high sec.

See this is exactly why people like you get shafted time after time. You do nothing to protect yourself and think that CCP should be protecting you. This game is not like that, if you want protection then you have to do it yourself, there are more than enough tools in game to defend yourself with.

So post-mortem: Over a hundred "likes" on my first post ever, not bad, right?

"I can't be asked to fit or fly ships correctly, so give me the most overpowered anything possible, that'll show em!"

If you thought high sec had rules in the 1st place, it demonstrates that your thinking is indeed as bad as IRL "Gun Free Zones".



CONCORD are like real police, in that we deter and arrest but not "protect" in the purest sense. In the same way that Police don't relieve you of your personal duty to protect yourself, the existence of CONCORD doesn't relieve you of your personal duty to use the various tools the game gives you to protect yourself. Everything from mods to tactics to awareness to friends.




No it is not. EVE gives players sooooo many defensive tools it ain't even funny. IRL all I can do is wear my vest (and hope the vest catches the bullet and that the bullet didn't get fired from a freaking rifle) stay aware of my surroundings and perhaps shoot 1st. I'd trade actual body parts if my partner could "remote rep" me during a fight, or if I could hang a "Damage Control"necklace around my neck, or plug "implants" into my head that would give me more "ehp" against some dude trying to kill me because he doesn't want to go back to prison.......

In other words, there is nothing wrong with the game, the problem is you.

IRL if you are going to shoot the guy shooting at you, you need a gun.

No different in EvE. The choices you make determine the options you have available. If you don't have a gun, you can't shoot. So either fit some to your ship and make lower ISK/hr, or get friends with guns.

No, you don't, not even in the US.
However, you can easily call upon someone who does and have them help you out. Kind of like how you assign guards to ride along with the cash truckGǪ

Ok, fair enough. I somehow read it as GÇ£doGÇ¥ rather than GÇ£canGÇ¥.

Still, the answer remains much the same: maybe you can, but you don't. The same goes in EVE: you could carry a gun, but you don't. And just like with that choice, even if you do, it won't really help against the determined attacker unless you bring back-up.

That's a really odd, and grossly hypocritical, response.

But in anycase I tend to agree with most things I see Tippia post.

You're fortunate that she's obviously enjoying playing your forum games, as it's pretty much the only thing that gives your comments any kind of credence at all. She obviously enjoys the sparring practice lol

I'd get bored with that quickly myself. It's obvious what you're trying to do and I'm not interested much in getting involved myself because everything you write is superficial bullshit aimed at perpetuating a simple argument (note I said argument, not debate). You are a very simple forum troll. Period.

Least I hope you are, as if you truly believe the stuff you say then...uhgg, Tippia has a point about you needing to step away from the keyboard and seek help.


Tell that to the awesome Badger bait that cost my alt her Proteus lol (and almost my bomber too).

Ships require balance. It's silly to expect a mining barge, designed for maximum efficiency at one task (mining) should also be an elite PVP vessel. Next you'll ask for covops everything, and frigates that can fit battleship grade weapons. Stop asking for tools to enable laziness and instead use the tools you already have to survive, or fight, smarter.

It will take extra effort, yes. Sorry but it's unavoidable.

No, I lost a T3 ship to the T3 gang for whom the Badger was bait for.

Quite an awesome battle badger fit actually. The guys who murdered me were nice enough to give me it's fit afterward when I congratulated them on an awesome bait.

I've arrived late, I don't know whats happened here exactly... talking about defending mining ships?

Let's get back on track here and highlight the real problem again:
EVE is filled with grown men who log into an online space game for the purpose of angering other grown men for their own personal amusement.

The OP is a breathe of fresh air. I have done almost everything "evil" this game has to offer and not a single time have I been rude about it. Not once have I extracted a tear or made someone want to quit the game through my words and attitude. If I can do it, so can they. They aren't special and neither am I. This has nothing to do with game mechanics, the issue is that of human interaction. I've ganked many ships and not once have mistreated the people behind the keyboard over it. The same cannot be said for the legion of sad RL losers who use EVE Online to make themselves feel better at everyone else's expense.

CCP doesn't do a single thing about it because they want subscriptions. That means us players only have one reasonable response: Unsubscribe.

I have not payed CCP a single dime since I saw someone having his "tears extracted" in local about 6 months ago. I sent in petitions about the players involved and they saw no repercussions, not even a suspension that put them offline for a week or something.

It's up to us normal functioning adults to show our displeasure towards CCP's lack of action. Anyone and everyone who agrees that the personalities in this game need a culling should stand with me on this. Unsubscribe and just grind for the ISK if needed. It sends the right message to CCP: If you're going to allow all this non-sense in your game to maximize subscriptions, you're not going to maximize subscriptions.

What were you in, what were you doing, and where were you when you blew up?

I'm sorry, but either you did not read my post, or chose to disregard its contents.

In either case, you did not reply in the format I had suggested would be conducive to a more organised and concise discussion of what exactly it is that OP and like minded individuals want done. I proposed it not for my "personal interest", but in order to better facilitate understanding of everyones specific positions and proposals.

Therefore I am forced to disregard the contents of your post, just as you chose to disregard the contents of mine.

I'm sorry, but you really leave me no option in that regard.

It is very confusing to me, why you would deliberately make the choice to respond to my post of which the contents is ONLY a suggestion for a format of discussion, in a fashion that is completely contrary to the only contents of my post, which is to ask for people to use the format I proposed.

Please reformat your post to fit the model I proposed, in order to facilitate discussion on this matter in an organised, informed and concise manner.

:@ OP and other like minded individuals


What exactly are you proposing?

Please provide a conscise numbered list with specific wording of what exactly it is that you want done.

Please append a short explanation to each numbered entry, if it requires elaboration.

Something similar to this:

---

1) Change x to y:
-Reasoning and elaboration

2) Implement mechanic z:
- Reasoning and elaboration

---

This will enable the community to address and consider specifically what it is you are proposing in an informed and organised manner, whereas right now, Inand of thers have no idea what exactly it is you have in mind.

Thanks.

That's an abomination of a ship, it deserved to be aborted, in fact it should never have been conceived.

Just for clarification:

I don't scam

I don't gank

I don't laugh at people who are bad enough that they get killed by somone who players as badly as me

I make a habit of helping new players

I do play in an NBSI alliance in 0.0 but I don't awox or spy

But

I want my choice to play that way to have meaning. If I were forced to play that way then my choice to do would mean nothing; I'd be just a clockwork orange, and I'd soon quit the game. Because the only reason that EVE Online, A Bad Game gets people to log in is because of the player interaction.

I accept that this choice means that I will sometimes be at a disadvantage. I am self secure enough to laugh off attempts by players who choose a different path to try and make me feel bad when those choices cost me. Generally I manage to turn the attempt back on them and have a laugh myself.

I am content that my choice has overall been to my advantage ingame: my word is good, there are many people in game ready to lend me ISK or assets (Bliss if you're reading this I'll trade the Rev back when the rugby is over and I log in OK?) but win or lose, my choices, my consequences, my responsibility: my game.

Seriously, few shabby pirates with guns can capture whole tanker with cargo worth millions in real life? This game is completely fair when you look at that from this perspective.

Ok well, you can say it's stupid - but I'm the one who's having a good game experience playing my way.

I apologise for not being as thin-skinned as you think I should be. No doubt it's a personal failing of mine.

Ooh the anger is rising in this one.

Such a moral person. So much dignity and restraint.

You think a ship fit and intended for a resource/haul activity should be capable of fighting off a ship fit and intended for destroying other ships?

What planet do you live on exactly?

The tanker captain was equally without a clone and could also be killed the same way. Are you sure that's the balancing change you want?

This exchange demonstrates the divide between us (the Malcanis' ...Malcanii, whatever of the world) and them (The Kyperions and the rest of the cry squad on these forums). The one side as a sense of personal responsiblity and adulthood, the other, a sense of deep entitlement.

The responsible players (in game and out) tend to be happier, the irresponsible ones are mad at the world for not conforming to their desires 'just because'. At some point , all I can do is feel sorry for all these angry/sad people.

I live in 0.0, where you can shoot anyone you like for whatever reasons seem good to you.

Do you?

Its a PvP game, morality has nothing to do with it.

You do realise that technically mining, trading and mission running are all forms of PvP right?