| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
266
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Something you see on the forums all the time is the question "How do we get more people out to nullsec?" The problem isn't getting people out to nullsec so much as it is keeping people in nullsec. Tackling the latter problem before figuring out how to resolve the former. The former problem is much harder to solve, but there is some bleed over into the former by solving the latter.
It doesn't matter if you're a hardcore PvPer or a dedicated carebear, when it comes to making ISK, people gravitate to the method that causes the least amount of annoyance. Currently, highsec incursions have the highest ISK per hour earning rate for the least amount of frustration. (Outside of moon goo, but few people have access to mine it.)
You need to make the fast ISK when you're done with your small gang Delve PvP, your forays into IRC space, tickling the underside of Goonswarm in Fade, or talking in angry cyrillic in the eastern regions. You need more ISK so that you have more ships that can be blowed up good. To make that fast ISK, you're going to make sure you can earn that ISK with as little annoyance as possible. Highsec it is. Your average nullsec player, he spends some proportion of time hanging out in nullsec, being a badass, making it a fun place to be. For some other proportion of time he is making his monies out in highsec. The nullsec population becomes a little ragged. I'll even go so far as to suggest that some of these players are spending increasing proportions of time in highsec, rather than nullsec.
How to get them back? You can manipulate highsec missioning and highsec incursions. Incursions are currently the most popular and best method of earning ISK quickly. Certainly a bonus that incursions are also a social activity (and nullseccers, by their nature and the nature of nullsec, are social animals.) So concentrate first on making highsec incursions a little less attractive to the nullbear, make it not quite worth their while to trek out (or clone jump or log on alts) to highsec.
How to increase the annoyance factor in highsec incursions? There's already a fair bit of competition over highsec incursion sites with the dedicated carebears (but not enough that everyone can't earn an excellent amount of ISK.) So you either drop the ISK rewards from highsec incursions, or as Ripard Teg suggests (I've come to prefer his idea best), you decrease the highsec incursion spawn rate, so that there are fewer high security constellations hosting Sansha over a given time period. This increases competition at the incursion sites. By however much the highsec spawn is decreased, you increase the lowsec spawn. I'd also suggest increasing the nullsec spawn rate independently of the two, give nullseccers more reason to stay in nullsec with less travel (increased spawn means greater percent chance that there's an incursion somewhere within 20 or jumps of someone's usual stomping grounds.)
Once you've found ways to keep nullsec people in nullsec, you can begin to worry about enticing other people to head out to the outer systems.
The benefit to spawn rate manipulation is that it creates less yammering from the carebears. Carebears hate to see monetary rewards nerfed. They feel they're very much hard done by having to earn slightly less than similar activities in lowsec and nullsec (incursions, planetary interaction, mining, NPC bounties, etc.) They forget that their earnings come with a very low probability of bad-things-happening. They have little risk in their ventures, but they forget that fact easily. There will always be people who will stay in highsec, no matter what manipulations you perform to try to get them to do otherwise. They are not the target audience. You're looking for the people creasing their butts on the fence. Radical changes are not necessary. Just enough to get them to choose the grass on the other side. A reduction in highsec incursion spawns could be just that bit of fertilizer the grass in nullsec needs.
I've gathered this impression of where nullseccers go to make ISK by chatting with them on my trips through nullsec. A question I always like to ask, to learn more about living in nullsec, is "How do you make your ISK?" A common answer is "Incursions in highsec." It's a small sample, obviously, but one person who goes to highsec to earn money isn't doing so alone. People like to do these activities with the people they're most comfortable with -- other corp and alliance mates.
(original post) EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic |

Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
83
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lots of truth here
"gravitate to the method that causes the least amount of annoyance"
And lots of shite
If you nerf highsec people will quit.
When people first go to nullsec they go to establish themselves and it will never happen as
All routes from high to null seem to be camped 24 hours a day
once you are in nullsec its populated by gankers all the time.
Dotlan/eve maps lets people know exactly where you are and what you have been up to. Ganked before you have even started. (KILL THIS OPTION OR JUST STOP MOANING ABOUT NO ONE BEING IN NULLSEC.
Want to quietly slip into a system and establish yourself. forget it. you will be blobed to death by people who then moan and dispise people who stay in highsec....Or you will have a 24 hour a day cloaker in your system. Good luck with that
I supposed you could join the Goons if you want to pay money to join a website and hang out with the Etards for three months before joining the Etards in EVE |

Gazmin VanBurin
Go Petition Blizzard
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
I have been in a number of null sec alainces, some good some bad, and it wasent really the isk that drove them back to high sec, it was the reason why null sec sov is so boring.
A: killing sov structures is a boring task, be it the new SBUs/TCUs, or the old POS towers, they arnt other players that shoot back, they arnt that much of anything to brag about killing, and there are allot of timers that deal with taking sov.
B: once you take sov, you get to put your name on the system, and maybe take the station for yourself if it has one, then of course up grade your system to build a jump bridge and maybe a cyno jammer (because upgrading your ssytem isent much good for anything else)
So to keep people interested in null sec, you have to either make taking sov fun, or you have to make systems somethign really worth fighting over, not just the moons in them, Maybe do both.
There is enough ways to make enough isk in 0.0 to buy pvp ships for everybody, but it boils down to did they enjoy the reason they lose those ships.
my 2isk |

Written Word
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
You really need to go away. |

Opertone
Signal 7
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
can't analyze thoughts
please post in thesis, leave the theory out (most forum people can figure, no need to scientifically justify)
please use short paragraphs, less you say more will be heard
please, 0.0 is invitation only. I can't access 0.0 because of my North past.
|

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
266
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:If you nerf highsec people will quit. Bull****. These carebears would have went to WoW and other risk-free games a long time ago. This game doesn't exactly have riveting solo play, the game kinda of sucks in that regard. These people are here for other reasons. Whether it's the sci-fi, the idea that they could get into danger (if though they avoid and whine about it like the plague), or the social aspect.
EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic |

Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
140
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Utter nonsense. Most people who live in nullsec make tehir isk in nullsec too. Many do have empire alts fro doing things but thats out of convenience, such as hauling and so on.
Most of us live in 0.0 99/9% of our time. |

Florestan Bronstein
The Waterworks
162
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
high-sec incursion: 10.5m ISK + 1,400 LP per vanguard, random rag-tag fleet
0.0 incursion: 15m ISK + 2,000 LP per vanguard, decent fittings and competent pilots
43% better payout for exactly the same work (a 10man AHAC/T3 fleet with 3 logis is scary enough to be left alone by almost all similarly-sized opponents)
so hard to make money in 0.0 compared to high-sec....  |

Tarikla
Projet Aurora
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Opertone wrote: please, 0.0 is invitation only.
Pretty much This . Unless you manage to gather thousands of pilots and then do a BIG push into nullsec (as BoB or more "recently" Goonswarm did) , you can't join 0.0 without joining a Powerblock (either enter in a corp already in or (more difficult) get your own corp into the Powerblock) . And that's the thing killing 0.0 .
Because it's NOT FUN do be the 1857th or the 3495th grunt in Alliance X , and having to respond to pretty much all CTA , where your name will not being said a single time (only the name of your corporation if you're lucky) , and being popped after 1/5/10/20/never (pick one) minutes because suddenly you got primary by (X)XX ships .
Also , yes , Sov Warfare is just boring as hell , and when you combine all of these factors , you got your average Powerblock , sadly .
@OP : if you nerf High-sec , people will leave . They are not in high-sec because it's safe , but because they just DON'T LIKE the other areas of the game . For them , Eve is all about BEING IN A SPACESHIP and the MMORTS thingy , they just love Eve for it's basics , not for anything else . |

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
267
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:high-sec incursion: 10.5m ISK + 1,400 LP per vanguard, random rag-tag fleet
0.0 incursion: 15m ISK + 2,000 LP per vanguard, decent fittings and competent pilots Very few people do 0.0 incursions. Check the incursion page in-game. Very few of them see any activity at all, much less get acted upon to completion. Just because you can make more money doing 0.0 incursions, doesn't mean anyone is actually doing it.
If the money is so good, why the **** aren't you out there doing them? Oh right, because the money in highsec is much much better given the risk (none). EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic |

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
267
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tarikla wrote:@OP : if you nerf High-sec , people will leave . They are not in high-sec because it's safe , but because they just DON'T LIKE the other areas of the game . For them , Eve is all about BEING IN A SPACESHIP and the MMORTS thingy , they just love Eve for it's basics , not for anything else . And that is why they won't leave, even if highsec is nerfed. EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic |

Tarikla
Projet Aurora
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Tarikla wrote:@OP : if you nerf High-sec , people will leave . They are not in high-sec because it's safe , but because they just DON'T LIKE the other areas of the game . For them , Eve is all about BEING IN A SPACESHIP and the MMORTS thingy , they just love Eve for it's basics , not for anything else . And that is why they won't leave, even if highsec is nerfed.
Ther's a limit to what a man can take before going loose . Most of these people subs with PLEX , not Gé¼/$/whatever , and if it's too much of an hassle to pay this PLEX every month with enough money to keep enjoying the game , they'll quit (and i would not be surprised if it's the reason CCP want to keep PLEX price from going trough the roof) .
If suddendly you tell your employee that they'll need to work like , 2-3 times more in order to get the same pay , they'll leave immediately , even if they love theirs jobs . |

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
267
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tarikla wrote:Most of these people subs with PLEX , not Gé¼/$/whatever , and if it's too much of an hassle to pay this PLEX every month with enough money to keep enjoying the game , they'll quit (and i would not be surprised if it's the reason CCP want to keep PLEX price from going trough the roof) . CCP is doing little to discourage high PLEX prices. In fact, they're using the high prices to advertise the sale of PLEX (which could decrease prices if enough are purchased, but so far it's had no effect.)
PLEX is increasing because CCP is removing risk from the game (especially highsec). People are earning more and losing less. EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic |

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
283
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Given that high sec is about 1000% less risk than the next least risky thing, good luck. Until you promote and encourage more CVA like entities with open doors to new comers, some sort of NRBS player policing along with more activities people can run individually your not going to get anything near like what a lot of people claim to want, because like it or not, there is just too much risk, for too little gain for the small entities and individuals. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
267
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:Until you promote and encourage more CVA like entities with open doors to new comers, some sort of NRBS player policing ... You're suggesting a game mechanic that enforces an NRDS (assuming you meant NRDS, because what exactly is NRBS) in nullsec? Holy ravioli! The carebear attitude in this game is out of control. EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic |

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:... "How do you make your ISK?" A common answer is "Incursions in highsec." It's a small sample, obviously, but one person who goes to highsec to earn money isn't doing so alone. People like to do these activities with the people they're most comfortable with -- other corp and alliance mates.[/i] ( original post) That is not unusual or limited to just that small sample of yours.
Many folks who do not buy / sell GTCs or are permanently funded via T2 BPOs use high-sec incursions to ISK it up. I know because I chat with them every day.
High-sec Incursions are the new level 4 missions, frankly. 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
283
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:Until you promote and encourage more CVA like entities with open doors to new comers, some sort of NRBS player policing ... You're suggesting a game mechanic that enforces an NRDS (assuming you meant NRDS, because what exactly is NRBS) in nullsec? Holy ravioli! The carebear attitude in this game is out of control. 1/10 for reading comprehension.
You can encourage NRBS policies with financial or sov related intensives for the alliance holders.
And what's wrong with having more carebears in 0.0 for random small gangs to shoot at? 
I mean, a lot of this HUUURFBLUUUUFFF i'm a hardcore pvp'er attitude is incredibly short sighted. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |

Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries Dark Phoenix Rising.
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 20:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Incursions broke eve's economy; discuss |

JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 21:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:Until you promote and encourage more CVA like entities with open doors to new comers, some sort of NRBS player policing ... You're suggesting a game mechanic that enforces an NRDS (assuming you meant NRDS, because what exactly is NRBS) in nullsec? Holy ravioli! The carebear attitude in this game is out of control. I think you're reading my mind. I was just saying it was ironic that some of the same voices complaining about people camping out high were the selfsame individuals who hated NRDS and cheered when Provi fell. So essentially you are upset at the results of your own actions? |

Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 21:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
The OP has highlighted the nullsec problem rather well. unfortunately nerfing highsec will do lil to buff null.
Annoyances is the right idea many people will flock to the less annoying methods of game playing. This basic idea is what is wrong with null to begin with . Increasing the annoyance level in high will not make null less anoying.
The real answer is to invest in the player base and give them the tools and mechanics necessary to make null desirable in the first place. This should be done through a player maintained infrastructure and logistic simplification . running and living in nullsec is a logistics nightmare simplifying and adding mechanics that add to player capabilities will aid in attracting and keeping more people in null.
Things that need to be really looked into that will make null desirable .
MARKETS:
Enabling the players to create profitable markets that are able to compete or even better best the markets in highsec.
TRADE: Enabling players so they can decrease risk to transporting goods.
All constellations should have something they excel in, something they are devoid of, or lacking in. these things can be minerals, goo ,parts ,or rat drops. while this may be already implemented there are no tools or mechanics that allow for the players to properly benefit from this.
Curbing the exportation of goods out of null, the majority of products acquired in null is exported to highsec. Null will never have an economy when the majority of goods are removed .
SECURITY:
this is a two way street their needs to be tools or mechanics in place that allows players to increase security through out systems. At the same time hostile forces need tools to be able to nullify the security
INDUSTRY:
Players need to be able to create uber goodness in null this plays into crafting. Buffing industry in null sec should be something that is seriously looked into.
CRAFTING:
crafting in null should allow players to create unique and better items than those found through out the game.
|

Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
127
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 21:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:If you nerf highsec people will quit.
Calling bullshit. Both the CFC and other alliances routinely run low/null incursions and if highsec incursions get nerf some will probably just do the switch. Additionally, high sec incursions are causing inflation and devaluing the lp system hurting many areas of the economy. If people quit they are worthless jewbears. |

Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
105
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 22:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Null sec apparently sucks so much that the Goons are coming to high sec to kill people. Why would we want to go there? |

Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
157
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 22:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
ANOTHER qq Thread Poetic? Do you take time out to log in or do you pay entirely to qq on the forums?
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:Until you promote and encourage more CVA like entities with open doors to new comers, some sort of NRBS player policing ... You're suggesting a game mechanic that enforces an NRDS (assuming you meant NRDS, because what exactly is NRBS) in nullsec? Holy ravioli! The carebear attitude in this game is out of control.
then please quit. Do the game a favor. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722
My stance on WiS |

Jita Alt666
509
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 22:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
^^this thread is not really QQing. There was a nice post by someone on page 1 - I even liked it. |

Reislier
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 22:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
It is an erroneous assumption that everyone would prefer null over empire if only the barriers to entry or learning curves were not so high. Those barriers are nonexistant to the player who actually wants to be there and irelevant to the ones who don't. |

Thomas Orca
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 23:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:highsec Incursions broke eve's economy; discuss
Probably. |

Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
157
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 23:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Reislier wrote:It is an erroneous assumption that everyone would prefer null over empire if only the barriers to entry or learning curves were not so high. Those barriers are nonexistant to the player who actually wants to be there and irelevant to the ones who don't.
true. Goons do it all the time. They recruit ppl that dont even play, bring them immediately to 0.0, and they seem to thrive
an Jita, every time I SEE the OP its in a whine thread. So you gotta expect Im gonna see whine. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=255722#post255722
My stance on WiS |

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
268
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 23:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:@Jita, every time I SEE the OP its in a whine thread. So you gotta expect Im gonna see whine. Arguing for more conflict in the game, rather than less ... well, sue me. :)
EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic |

Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 23:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Florestan Bronstein wrote:high-sec incursion: 10.5m ISK + 1,400 LP per vanguard, random rag-tag fleet
0.0 incursion: 15m ISK + 2,000 LP per vanguard, decent fittings and competent pilots Very few people do 0.0 incursions. Check the incursion page in-game. Very few of them see any activity at all, much less get acted upon to completion. Just because you can make more money doing 0.0 incursions, doesn't mean anyone is actually doing them. If the money is so good, why the **** aren't you out there doing them? Oh right, because the money in highsec is much much better given the risk (none).
So it's highsec's fault that people aren't doing nullsec incursions? Right, totally makes sense.
No it's because nullbears are chicken wits and won't go do an incursion in nullsec unless it spawns in their own backyard where their systems are bubbled to **** and they have intel channels that will warn them before the enemies have even loaded ammunition! quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
269
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 23:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:So it's highsec's fault that people aren't doing nullsec incursions? Right, totally makes sense.
No it's because nullbears are chicken wits and won't go do an incursion in nullsec unless it spawns in their own backyard where their systems are bubbled to **** and they have intel channels that will warn them before the enemies have even loaded ammunition! It is CCP's fault for making the risk/reward ratio favour highsec incursions over lowsec or nullsec incursions. The risk one takes in lowsec or nullsec doesn't come close to the reward one can obtain. People will naturally flock to the most ISK for the least amount of risk.
Double or triple nullsec incursion rewards, while reducing highsec incursion rewards by 20%, and you may find people actively pursuing the nullsec reward, because the reward might actually be equal to the risk.
There is no risk in highsec. It is all reward.
Naturally, earning 10M ISK per hour for no risk (highsec) is preferable to 15M ISK per hour for substantial risk (nullsec). EVE Online: Incarna - New Coke EVE Online: Winter Expansion - Coke Classic |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |