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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
307
   |
Posted - 2014.03.15 00:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why do so many people think we need subcaps specialized in killing capitals? We're arleady capable of doing it with subcaps. Take a quick look at evekill on some of the ratting or lemming carriers/super carriers that get killed by gangs of less than 50 people. There's plenty of them. Loads of them in fact. Capitals aren't that un-killable by themselves or even in small enough groups. It's when they get huge fleets that it becomes a more difficult task, which is completely reasonable. At that scale of warfare, it really does come down to who has more capitals, which is the same for any engagement where the doctrines are similar. Aside from carriers, capitals have a harder time punching below their class, which makes them vulnerable to a sizable force of smaller ships. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
308
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 00:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Chusa Unholy wrote:Carriers are significant anti-capital ship threats with their fighters, and both Dreadnoughts and Carriers/Motherships are deadly to this class of ship.
No. Oh hell no. Fighters are definitely not anti capital weapons, much less anti-anything weapons. They suck in their current form.
Also, even with massive MWD bloom a seiged dread is going to have a headache trying to hit a BS of any kind that isn't in the turret range sweet spot. And if the dread is not in seige, then the dps is about as good as a BS and still crappy tracking,but not nearly as bad. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
308
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 01:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chusa Unholy wrote:Anhenka wrote:Chusa Unholy wrote:Rowells wrote:Why do so many people think we need subcaps specialized in killing capitals? We're arleady capable of doing it with subcaps. Take a quick look at evekill on some of the ratting or lemming carriers/super carriers that get killed by gangs of less than 50 people. There's plenty of them. Loads of them in fact. Capitals aren't that un-killable by themselves or even in small enough groups. It's when they get huge fleets that it becomes a more difficult task, which is completely reasonable. At that scale of warfare, it really does come down to who has more capitals, which is the same for any engagement where the doctrines are similar. Aside from carriers, capitals have a harder time punching below their class, which makes them vulnerable to a sizable force of smaller ships. But you can always change the doctrine. And part of this is to change the doctrine, to put more pressure on capital ship builders so that they will either need to build more or move to guerrilla warfare styles. My bad, did I just hear the phrase "guerrila warefare" used in conjunction with ships that need a broadcasted cyno to enter, need to recharge all their cap to leave, and dreads which have to spend 5 minutes sitting in one place to do anything? And can all be pinned down for several minutes at a time by a 50 mil isk dictor? One does not "Guerrila warfare" with a tank you know. Also, nobody cares about cap ship builder. The people who are flying them are honestly the only ones that matter. Well, when you're hunting whales you don't use a surfboard. You get a boat.
You know they used to use small row boats to get in close and harpoon the whales, then have larger ship come pick it up to be used. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
308
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 02:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chusa Unholy wrote:256 of these ships firing at the same ship work out to--this is using your own numbers here--2 capitals killed every 5 seconds, so, what is that, a 30% increase in kill efficiency? 20%? Try 66%
Chusa Unholy wrote:Why not put a missile in a man's hand, instead of building another supersonic fighter to dogfight it out? Capital ships are powerful and useful? Sure. That's the point. Sub-capitals are powerful and useful. Yep. That's also the point. A Berzerker is also useful and powerful, in it's role. Last I checked the missiles i can launch by hand and those launched from a plane were very, very different. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
314
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 19:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:Have you ever fitted an Archon? Because your numbers are so way off it's ridiculous. A t2 fit Archon has 3.95m EHP, 4.6m if it gets an Erebus fleet bonus. A t2 fit dualrep triage archon that hasn't refitted to a tank fit yet tanks 21.5k dps. I'm gonna need to ask where you're getting your numbers because I'm only getting 3.8 mil T2 fit, slave implants, damnation, and Erebus. Which, even in massive fleets in the hundreds of carriers, don't normally (if ever) have. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
314
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 19:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:
EANM RAH DCU one of each t2 hardener set of trimarks heat.
Ah, ok. I always forgetting the overheat |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
316
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 02:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Chusa Unholy wrote:scimichar wrote:Chusa Unholy wrote:There is a very important role in the EVE microcosm that is completely vacant. There are no sub-capital ships specifically designed to kill capital ships,.. Tempest. Thread over. Sub-caps can kill capital ships. Collect your internet prize on your way out the virtual door.
You seem to have solved your own problem without knowing it. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
316
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 04:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why would we need to? Your post is about the apparent need for a subcapital ship to kill dreads, because you say there is no ship to fill this role. There are ships to fill this role. They already exist and perform their tasks.
I don't see what distinction you were trying to make there. Enough frigates can kill a battleship, enough battleships can kill a capital, enough capitals (or battleships) can kill a supercapital. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
316
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 04:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Damn forums doin weird ****
(double post) |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
316
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 05:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:You're confusing CAN and DESIGNED FOR. I guess since several badgers can kill a vagabond, anyone who wants to hunt a vagabond should get fleetmates into badgers.
Certain ships do specialize in certain areas but like your example with the badgers, you don't necessarily have to follow their intended uses to get the desired results. Not that it isn't already common logic to bring heavy tanking, high dps ships that most people can us: your everyday T1 Battleships. The ships doesn't need to have the name "Anti-Capital Ship" for it to be used in such a way. I doubt dreads were ever designed with PVE purposes in mind, but there are people who use them effectively in wormholes.
We don't need a ship to have special bonuses against capital ships when there already are ships that can and do get the job done. |
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