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Darko1107	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:24:00 - [301] Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Originally by: Darko1107 When bob lose a hac they dont lose anywhere near the ammount of isk/time/morale/power as an alliance without the BPO. The oppertunity cost whatever stuff is just bollucks. You tell a bob hac manufacturer "Oh i lost a hac damn" Reply: "Oh well only cost us 40Mil". Thats how they see it, thats how much it is WORTH TO THEM. It doesnt matter how much you think it should be worth to them because they couldnt give a ****. Whereas when VC member y says to none existent VC industrial leader x, "Oh i lost a zealot" he replies with "I HATE U, DIE". Imp just blame it on foyle stealing 4534798769428676985042980698025572390245 quadrillion isk. Wow, just wow. I Know! Thats ALOT of isk!
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:28:00 - [302] pffft Xirt mines that amount in Trit in a week .... Real men use blasters
Lone Bear	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:35:00 - [303] Who took away my Honey Jar ?
MrMann	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:36:00 - [304] Edited by: MrMann on 28/04/2006 15:39:27 YAWN . . . BoB thread. YAWN . . . . BoB vs. IMP/VC usual flaming. Please allow me, MrMann, on behalf of the Welcome to Aridia Civic Association, to state the facts: Aridia is perfectly safe right now. I'd advise staying out of Fountain, but Aridia is a miner's paradise. <whispering> Why I hear tell that there is actually Araknor to be mined in areas of Aridia that very few people know about. <nudge nudge> Trust me. So, please, ignore the hype and come to Aridia to claim your fortune. Oh, and remember to load up with lots of good Tech2 gear. You'll need it to mine the good stuff and to hold off those really high ISK belt rats. Aridia - It's a Great Place to Mine.
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:45:00 - [305] Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 28/04/2006 03:43:29 Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: Dirtball In delve I fear imp I do not fear bob due to never engaging unless at a gate with 10+ on the other side or with 10+ in local. <- Period Dont listen to all the propaganda from the same peeps that have been whoring the forums for years now no matter what corp they are in. If bob says I dont belong in this thread check you killboard and search for dirtball. If bob was in no danger from imp they would not have war dec'd them. <-Period im sry, dirtnub, but i heard u on ts (when u were d2) and ur sick anti-bob passion isnt healthy. maybe taking a break wouldnt be to bad... Didn't you quit alliance politics? All the blue? All the pos crap? Oh wait.. you are back right where you started. i feel sorry for you cause u were never rly up to date and fate I'm sorry but its hard to keep up with someone who changes so often. From whining about 5 stabbing to fitting stabs on Vagas yourself. Moaning about BOB having naps, while having more blues than BOB by far. Crying about blobs/no fun fights while being the least fun alliance to fight with. Begging BOB for a NAP so you could fight ASCN, then moaning to BOB for napping others to gain an upper hand. dude, all ur "knowledge" is from teh forums. stop it, u have ZERO clue about all the points u made. Z E R O --------------------------------
Metal Dude	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:46:00 - [306] Man Buan, when you get going about ISK, thereÆs no end in sight. However, this is not Xanadu. BoB actually supports their PVP and does not charge them market value for ships like Xanadu did. BoB does not care about profit like Xanadu did by milking every possible ISK out of their members. BoB does not care about market value like Xanadu did and actually builds ships for their members. BoB cares about their PVP force to have fun, not like Xanadu did not. BoB delivers the ships for the cost, unlike Xanadu that did not pay out their points to members for the work they did for the corp. ThatÆs why BoB is a power house and Xanadu does not play EVE anymore, but IÆm sure in WoW they have more money that they can spend. Maybe you should go join them, since you care about profit so much. The truth will set you free
Nelson Vandermark	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:46:00 - [307] Originally by: fuze Cheating is possible in Eve so it happens. But if you take the original example: Corp produces HAC for 40M and sells it to a member at cost. Declining 120M profit. With that profit the corp could have bought materials for 3 new HAC. (theoreticly) But instead the corp uses (moon)mining/refining to get the resources and building everything themselves. That takes more time than buying the resources. But guess what, the ennemy also spends time to gain resources in order to buy a new HAC. But he's also paying for the overhead from sellers that you guys don't have. So there is certainly an economic advantage but it's not the profit made for a HAC sale. The exact numbers are impossible to calculate though. Its end of month and this thread needs to die, this might speed up the process. bob hax0ring -
Scifa	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:56:00 - [308]
Silvero	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:56:00 - [309] Edited by: Silvero on 28/04/2006 15:56:30 Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 28/04/2006 15:48:14 Originally by: fuze Cheating is possible in Eve so it happens. But if you take the original example: Corp produces HAC for 40M and sells it to a member at cost. Declining 120M profit. With that profit the corp could have bought materials for 3 new HAC. (theoreticly) But instead the corp uses (moon)mining/refining to get the resources and building everything themselves. That takes more time than buying the resources. But guess what, the ennemy also spends time to gain resources in order to buy a new HAC. But he's also paying for the overhead from sellers that you guys don't have. So there is certainly an economic advantage but it's not the profit made for a HAC sale. The exact numbers are impossible to calculate though. Its end of month and this thread needs to die, this might speed up the process. wonder how much of the 10TB of bandwidth can get used up :P bob hax0ring Well just beacuse it was more then a month ago you managed to kill something, dosen't mean the thread has to die.
Kaeten	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:57:00 - [310] IMP & VC = joke, nuff said
Dianabolic	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:58:00 - [311] Originally by: Nelson Vandermark bob hax0ring gahahahahahahahah AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA So bitter, so wrong, what an idiot you are. How was that video that you whined at us to remove, after you had posted it? hmmmmmmmmmzoooooooooor. Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
Bozse	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:00:00 - [312] Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 28/04/2006 15:48:14 Originally by: fuze Cheating is possible in Eve so it happens. But if you take the original example: Corp produces HAC for 40M and sells it to a member at cost. Declining 120M profit. With that profit the corp could have bought materials for 3 new HAC. (theoreticly) But instead the corp uses (moon)mining/refining to get the resources and building everything themselves. That takes more time than buying the resources. But guess what, the ennemy also spends time to gain resources in order to buy a new HAC. But he's also paying for the overhead from sellers that you guys don't have. So there is certainly an economic advantage but it's not the profit made for a HAC sale. The exact numbers are impossible to calculate though. Its end of month and this thread needs to die, this might speed up the process. wonder how much of the 10TB of bandwidth can get used up :P bob hax0ring Ohhh look im mentioned as a haxx0r , does this mean im famous now ?
Hast	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:04:00 - [313] Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 28/04/2006 15:48:14 Originally by: fuze Cheating is possible in Eve so it happens. But if you take the original example: Corp produces HAC for 40M and sells it to a member at cost. Declining 120M profit. With that profit the corp could have bought materials for 3 new HAC. (theoreticly) But instead the corp uses (moon)mining/refining to get the resources and building everything themselves. That takes more time than buying the resources. But guess what, the ennemy also spends time to gain resources in order to buy a new HAC. But he's also paying for the overhead from sellers that you guys don't have. So there is certainly an economic advantage but it's not the profit made for a HAC sale. The exact numbers are impossible to calculate though. Its end of month and this thread needs to die, this might speed up the process. wonder how much of the 10TB of bandwidth can get used up :P bob hax0ring might be better if you actually could spell Exploit tbh. P.S. English is not my first language either I cheat in poker
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:04:00 - [314] Originally by: Alberta Baun: While you're right about there being an opportunity cost associated with our HAC losses, and on some theoretical levels the loos of a HAC to by one of our pilots has the same effect as a loss by somebody who bought off the market, in practice this simply isn't true. The simple fact that our pilots keep posting that a HAC loss means little to them should tell you all you need to know. No, all that means is that your program doesn't cause large losses to your pilots. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Scifa	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:04:00 - [315] Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 28/04/2006 15:48:14 Originally by: fuze Cheating is possible in Eve so it happens. But if you take the original example: Corp produces HAC for 40M and sells it to a member at cost. Declining 120M profit. With that profit the corp could have bought materials for 3 new HAC. (theoreticly) But instead the corp uses (moon)mining/refining to get the resources and building everything themselves. That takes more time than buying the resources. But guess what, the ennemy also spends time to gain resources in order to buy a new HAC. But he's also paying for the overhead from sellers that you guys don't have. So there is certainly an economic advantage but it's not the profit made for a HAC sale. The exact numbers are impossible to calculate though. Its end of month and this thread needs to die, this might speed up the process. wonder how much of the 10TB of bandwidth can get used up :P bob hax0ring Ohhh look im mentioned as a haxx0r , does this mean im famous now ? No it means your lame!
Bozse	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:06:00 - [316] Originally by: Scifa Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Edited by: Nelson Vandermark on 28/04/2006 15:48:14 Originally by: fuze Cheating is possible in Eve so it happens. But if you take the original example: Corp produces HAC for 40M and sells it to a member at cost. Declining 120M profit. With that profit the corp could have bought materials for 3 new HAC. (theoreticly) But instead the corp uses (moon)mining/refining to get the resources and building everything themselves. That takes more time than buying the resources. But guess what, the ennemy also spends time to gain resources in order to buy a new HAC. But he's also paying for the overhead from sellers that you guys don't have. So there is certainly an economic advantage but it's not the profit made for a HAC sale. The exact numbers are impossible to calculate though. Its end of month and this thread needs to die, this might speed up the process. wonder how much of the 10TB of bandwidth can get used up :P bob hax0ring Ohhh look im mentioned as a haxx0r , does this mean im famous now ? No it means your lame!
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:08:00 - [317] Originally by: Avon Baun, you would do better if you refined your terminology. Not making 100mil ISK profit is not the same as losing 100mil ISK. Don't confuse the two. They are effectively the same thing. If you consider total wealth, they are the same thing. When you produce a HAC your total assets are increasing by the market value of the HAC. When you fail to realize the value of that HAC you are losing money. People don't think its the same thing because they won't bankrupt their pilots themselves by failing to realizing profit. This is what many of you are trying to argue. While its true, it doesn't change the value of the ship thats lost. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:10:00 - [318] Originally by: Metal Dude Man Buan, when you get going about ISK, thereÆs no end in sight. However, this is not Xanadu. BoB actually supports their PVP and does not charge them market value for ships like Xanadu did. BoB does not care about profit like Xanadu did by milking every possible ISK out of their members. BoB does not care about market value like Xanadu did and actually builds ships for their members. BoB cares about their PVP force to have fun, not like Xanadu did not. BoB delivers the ships for the cost, unlike Xanadu that did not pay out their points to members for the work they did for the corp. ThatÆs why BoB is a power house and Xanadu does not play EVE anymore, but IÆm sure in WoW they have more money that they can spend. Maybe you should go join them, since you care about profit so much. I was wondering when the man of no paragraphs and no ears would show up. I'm not asserting that you care about isk. YOU are asserting that you care about isk. If you don't care that you are losing alot of money by losing HACs, great, just don't try to tell people that losing HACs is insignificant. P.S Xan doesn't play WoW. They play an even worse game :O The Enemy's Gate is Down
Wizie	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:11:00 - [319] Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 28/04/2006 03:43:29 Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: Dirtball In delve I fear imp I do not fear bob due to never engaging unless at a gate with 10+ on the other side or with 10+ in local. <- Period Dont listen to all the propaganda from the same peeps that have been whoring the forums for years now no matter what corp they are in. If bob says I dont belong in this thread check you killboard and search for dirtball. If bob was in no danger from imp they would not have war dec'd them. <-Period im sry, dirtnub, but i heard u on ts (when u were d2) and ur sick anti-bob passion isnt healthy. maybe taking a break wouldnt be to bad... Didn't you quit alliance politics? All the blue? All the pos crap? Oh wait.. you are back right where you started. i feel sorry for you cause u were never rly up to date and fate I'm sorry but its hard to keep up with someone who changes so often. From whining about 5 stabbing to fitting stabs on Vagas yourself. Moaning about BOB having naps, while having more blues than BOB by far. Crying about blobs/no fun fights while being the least fun alliance to fight with. Begging BOB for a NAP so you could fight ASCN, then moaning to BOB for napping others to gain an upper hand. dude, all ur "knowledge" is from teh forums. stop it, u have ZERO clue about all the points u made. Z E R O Its knowledge from your posts on the forums... you need to spam less I guess.
dabster	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:11:00 - [320] Originally by: Metal Dude wow the bitterness just wont stop huh. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:15:00 - [321] Originally by: Irimi Nage WTF Baun makes no sense at all. If we sold all our HACs for 200mil, in the end we'd have to buy them at 200mil (since I know all our HACs get used for something). We have enough players and things to trade for to use all our built HACs. By selling them all we actually gain _nothing_ since we have to buy them back, but we lose market tax. We also lose the ability to have on-demand access to HACs. Therefore selling the HACs would actually cost us more in-practice. --- Its a zero sum game. If you sold the HACs at 200mil to your players then your corporations would realize profit at their expense. If, however, your players were not the only consumers of the HACs then your corproations would realize profit at the expense of others. Of course, if you were charging market price with your BPOs then the price would actually be lower than the current market price. It doesn't matter who is consuming the ships though, someone is taking a loss. In your example the players are taking the loss by paying the profit margin and the way you actually do things the corporations are taking the loss by not receiving the profit margin. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Nira Li	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:17:00 - [322] Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Its end of month and this thread needs to die, this might speed up the process. wonder how much of the 10TB of bandwidth can get used up :P bob hax0ring it feels so nice to be so good at this game so that ppl think you are exploiting You Will Cry My Name Funny Guys
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:18:00 - [323] Originally by: Aloysius Knight Well baun sure we could sell at 150mil or what ever for hacs...or we could have a large surply of cheap T2 ships for pvp? i mean 40-50mil for a hac?, that insures that our fleets are the best fited that they can be who cares about the isk? we get some money back to the corps AND have our fleets pimped out in t2 ****, FUK YEAH This seems to summarize why you guys are willing to take the loss on not selling them. You want your members to have ready access to what you percieve to be the best combat ships. You don't care about isk. So, you eat the loss for the sake of these two reasons. I am sure that the BoB members are thankful for this. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Svett	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:23:00 - [324] I'm still looking for my 40mil isk hacs, can't seem to find them on escrow or the market. :(
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:28:00 - [325] Edited by: Baun on 28/04/2006 16:34:16 Originally by: DoctorGonzo Because we make them we only ever lose the production cost when one is destroyed. Your arguement only works if we make and don't fly them. Things are not worth their production cost they are worth their market value. Quote: So as you can see it's only lost opportunity if we don't fly HAC's. As soon as we do then it's only ever the production cost we lose, whether we sell internally or externally. This is the same confusion I dealt with earlier. Simply because you fly the ships does not mean that they do not have a vallue on the market thats higher than the production cost. If we follow your idea through and assume that all of your HACs are consumed internally at market price then ~200mil per HAC flows from each HAC consumer to the corporation per HAC. What is happening when you sell the HACs below market price is that ~60mil per HAC flows from each HAC consumer to the corproation and the corporation EATS the ~140mil of the rest of the value. So, in the first case the corp takes both the loss and the gain. The corporation itself gets the ~140mil profit and the pilot pays for that profit. In the second case the pilot pays for the cost of the ship and the corproation loses the ~140mil profit. In both cases, either the pilot or the corp is losing ~140mil. The only reason you are arguing otherwise is because the 140mil lost profit isn't subtracted from the liquid isk on hand. Instead its subtracted from the valuation of your total assets. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:30:00 - [326] Originally by: Shin Ra Baun is right in pure economic terms. But there are so many other factors to be taken into account that your are infact all wrong. Putting a pricetag on a BoB hac loss would be very difficult and as such is not worth aguing about. All thats left to say is that killing a hac is a significant loss to anyone, BoB included. However you dress it up with opportunity costs or internal markets, it is still a loss. But, it is not as much of a loss as Baun is suggesting and it is more of a loss than the doc says. End of. As should be apparent to you at this point, I like discussions :p. The only way in which it is less of a loss than I am presenting is because IF BoB sold their HACs then the HACs would be worth less. THis has already been extensively addressed in the post, perhaps you missed it. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Amthrianius	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:34:00 - [327] I prefer the P3EN vid myself Nelson. ---------------
Dianabolic	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:35:00 - [328] Originally by: Svett I'm still looking for my 40mil isk hacs, can't seem to find them on escrow or the market. :( U new guys are too nub to get the real deals ;) Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
Himo Amasacia	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:36:00 - [329] I finf this tread amusing to say the least. I;'m Aradia every second or third day and I have not seen a trace of BOB anywhere. ASS and Huff, yes. BOB, not a sniff. In fact the first time I saw a Bob ship was last night and they were in Solitude, and they were camping one of the gateways into Syndicate. Oviously something in treads like this has stung.. Oh and well done on the raven. Pity your killboards won't recognise that despite you going 6 BS vs 1 it had one of your guys within a sliver of going down before your guy ran. Impressive, to say the least..
Alasse Cuthalion	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:37:00 - [330] Originally by: Amthrianius I prefer the P3EN vid myself Nelson. This one?

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