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Kelgen Thann
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Posted - 2006.04.29 18:54:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
Which all comes back to my "imbalance" posting. IT is almost impossible to fit a ship to say rat well in low sec WHILE at the same time covering all the possible you might be ganked scenarios meaning your always toast, if your alone and you get scouted out by a covert op ship set up to warp while cloaked.
That's the point of Eve. You are always at risk outside >.5 space.
If you're solo ratting in lawless space where you can get ganked by anyone for any reason you take precausions...
Fit 1 Multi spec ECM jammer, it has a % chance to jam. you WILL jam the ship eventually so you can warp away. Or fit a mwd that you turn on when you need to. no penalty if you don't activate it.
Fit 2 WCS, this blocks all scramblers.
carry light drones.. they Destroy frigs, make sure the drones are the opposite damage type the rats need, this makes pirates vulnerable (ex. You're fighting Sansha, and doing EM damage, Pirates will tank to absorb EM damage)
Fit energy Neutralizers in your unused primary slots, you will devastate the frigs cap, and shut off his scramblers
Fit FoF missles he has a lock you will hit him.
There are other options, but just not as effective.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:22:00 -
[32]
Theres a lot of good replies here.
Mine isnt what you want to hear but I''ll say it anyway...
"Stop asking for the game to be changed because you died"
For heavens sake, one setup beat you (in a specialized setup) and now the game is terribly imbalanced?
Reality check!
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.04.30 02:21:00 -
[33]
FFS are you guys dense or just soo used to whining that you assume any comment is whining. I couldnt give a "rats" ass i died lol. The problem is the issue where I was unable to do anything to try to fight back, that is all very simple. The guy was able to warp in cloaked (another issue most pvp games have learned is lame perfect invis is unbalanced), scramble me and hold me for 3+ minutes. Again I don't care if I die, that is part of the fun I just want to fight back have a chance etc.
So I made a post asking for advice and presenting what I had perceived as problems. Your allowed to disagree but I am afraid if the answer comes down to warp to a safe spot and log out if someone shows up in local, then indeed the game is broken. Added 1 Stab is stupid because anyone set up to tackle is going to tackle me with or without 1 stab, not sure why people reply with such simpleton answers lol (like somoene else suggesting I use my 1 drone in a enyo LMAO yes that is rip him a new one and fast!).
Anyrate I appreciate the few good replies, I will try a jammer maybe next time or maybe a little longer range set up. I still think there is a problem in a pvp game where someone can essentially lock you down for a long period of time and it is "guarenteed" I certainly cannot equip every stinking mod to cover every situation and still be successful at what I am doing in game in the first place :)
Why do people keep being puzzled by the fact he warped in cloaked? You can warp while cloaked with a certain ship type I thought?
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Nebuli
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Posted - 2006.04.30 02:38:00 -
[34]
You can only warp cloaked with a cov ops frigate (I assume this must have been it as you mistook it for an inty so must have been small, theirs force recons but theyre alot bigger) ,which means that one drone you keap laughing at could probably have done quite a decent amount of damage to him as cov ops ships arent much stronger than a shuttle.
Basicaly you got beaten fair and square, this is the way pvp works in EVE, if youre set up for short range as you were and a faster ship comes along set up for long range and is faster than you then he can stay out of your range and keap you scrambled.
Paper, scissors, stone, had you had a mwd you could have mwd out of range or into range he would have died, if you had got rails you could have just killed him, you had a weakness in your set up and the guy exploited that weakness, simple as that.
Their is NO imbalance here, learn from it and move on, at the end of the day the same rules apply to everyone, everywhere, you can do the same thing to someone else, thats how pvp works, know the ship youre fighting, know what its "likely" to have fitted from experiance and know a way to counter it.
What I would have done is, I assume you were in low sec, you didnt mention the exact sec, but unless its 0.0 and killing BS's you dont need blasters anyway, but I go on a tangent, pull local out of stacked chat windows, place it above your normal chat window and make it small, click the little button at the top to make it opaque.
Now watch local all the time, as soon as someone enters you dont know warp to a safe spot then start scanning, move around the system scanning untill you find him and his ship type, is it a threat? if so dont just carry on ratting, go somewhere else, do something else, or wait it out untill he moves on, continueing ratting when someone is in local with you who you dont know and isnt allied with you is just asking to get ganked.
CEO - Art of War |
Lord Slater
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Posted - 2006.04.30 02:59:00 -
[35]
Scramblers have short range try flying away from him next time or fit a WCS no shame in it perfectly legit too.
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.04.30 03:01:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
*snip* or just soo used to whining that you assume any comment is whining. I couldnt give a "rats" ass i died lol. The problem is the issue where I was unable to do anything to try to fight back, that is all very simple. The guy was able to warp in cloaked (another issue most pvp games have learned is lame perfect invis is unbalanced), scramble me and hold me for 3+ minutes. Again I don't care if I die, that is part of the fun I just want to fight back have a chance etc....
This is starting to sound like a "My rock is great against scissors but ZOMG nerf paper cos it's unfair" thread. CovOps tacklers are no picnic to fly and they are far from the invulnerable killing machines you make them out to be. I thought you said an inty first of all but a CovOps you should have easily gotten in range to kill it with a MWD fitted. Let me guess, no MWD? bad idea on a short range ship not to have the speed isn't it?
You had a bad setup and you lost fair and square. I used to fly a short range wolf which I lost to a tackling inty with a mate blasting me from 25km in a cruiser. I lost that Wolf and built a new one that has enough range to kill anything that gets close enough to tackle it. That first wolf was my tuition fee and I learned a lot from it.
Effective setups come from the crucible of actual combat. A good PvP ship should be able to take on rats no problem. Not as easily as a dedicated ratting setup but a ratting setup will normally see you in a pod should you be engaged by a player. Nothing needs to be fixed except your setup, your ship was too slow to have such short range. Increase speed or range (on an AF I'd go for range myself). Learn from this experience and build a better ship and get back out there. Complaining that cloaks are unfair or that you couldn't fight back in that particular ship is just a waste of a lesson that you have already paid for.
>> RECRUITING << |
Rebell
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Posted - 2006.04.30 03:06:00 -
[37]
Nanobotter, you said you were hunting npc BS in low sec. I found that when I do that in my Jag/Wolf I barely have to tank as they miss me all the time.
So I think you could compromise on your armor tank to fit 1 WCS. Another thing you could try is fitting a MWD. Yeah, it it kills your cap, but if an inty orbits you outside of your web range, you can try to turn on your MWD real quick and makeing an unexpected course change that might throw off the inty's orbiting distance.
Bye the way, I know how you feel. I was npcing in my Ferox once and a Crusader locked me down an orbited me at 12km. There was nothing I could do as I couldn't use precision missiles. It felt like crap, but hey, I still thing it is balanced.
As somebody above said, half the battle is won on the ship fitting screen.
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Dak Hakin
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Posted - 2006.04.30 03:09:00 -
[38]
If it is too difficult for you to fit your ship for NPC'ing in low sec, perhaps you should not be in lowsec? Not to be a ***** or anything. While Eve is pretty open, its not a sandbox.
_______________________________________________
I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devils work.
Mr. Grumpy-sour-pus
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Kelgen Thann
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Posted - 2006.04.30 03:33:00 -
[39]
ohh and When a ship decloaks they have a targeting delay, based on their skills.
If a cov de-cloaks get close and open fire or warp away.
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Karl Shade
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Posted - 2006.04.30 03:39:00 -
[40]
1. You donŠt need WCS to rat in lowsec. Just a bit, a tiny tiny bit of thinking ahead and paying attention.
2. If you go where there be pvpers fit for pvp. If I can rat in a pvp fitted T1 friggie in lowsec between targets you sure as hell can in an Enyo.
3. Interceptors can not warp cloaked. Either he warped in and then cloaked, in wich case you should have seen him (see pt1), was sitting cloaked in the belt waiting or he was flying a stealthbomber, in wich case your single drone could have most likely forced him to warp out.
4. "Being held indefintely waiting to be killed it stupid" you know that works both ways right? Unless heŠs set up a trap with a friend him locking you down without being able to kill puts him at just as much risk as you.
Oh and just as a small aside, if you fit for "ultra short range" fit for max speed or have a speedy friend with dual webs with you.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2006.04.30 03:50:00 -
[41]
You don't even understand half of what your talking about, a cloaked inty warped into a belt? you realise they can't even warp in cloaked, and if he cloaked when he came in, you would know he was there. Even if you missed that there is the sensor recalibration time.
So what are you talking about again? 
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2006.04.30 05:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Why do people keep being puzzled by the fact he warped in cloaked? You can warp while cloaked with a certain ship type I thought?
Yeah but its got crap offense and really crap defense...you were flying a enyo right?
You have a drone bay...granted it fits one light drone...belive it or not that should have been sufficent to get him to warp out, if it was a covert ops ship.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
gfldex
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Posted - 2006.04.30 06:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
can warp to my system
If he can hinder you from doing your business in a system it's _his_ system and not yours.
In EVE we got a concept called power. And power is inbalanced by definition.
--
$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Benglada
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Posted - 2006.04.30 06:38:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Benglada on 30/04/2006 06:40:08
You can rat with four rails, it will take a little longer to kill npc battleships but you will ROAST any inty that gets close
Also, if your ratting in 0.0 in a decent place (i.e not on a pipeline and at least 8j from empire) you can generally sit there and rat for like 5 hours without seeing anyone, so the one time you do see someone its not much of a compromise to go sit at a ss for 5 minutes.
BTW: the one frigate class that can warp cloaked is the weakest frigate variant in eve, even weaker then t1 frigates, you should be able to 1 volley it in an enyo (btw, enyo can carry 1 small drone, if you have decent drone skills that 1 small drone should be able to wipe out a covops frigate within about 60 seconds)
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Originally by: Wrangler
Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote.. 
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Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.04.30 06:51:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 30/04/2006 06:52:49
What a classy OP. Lashing out at people that actually have a remote concept of what they're talking about and going on to live in his fantasy world.
Its simple enough - you were totally oblivious, because there is no such thing as a cloaked Interceptor (unless he uses an Improved or Prototype cloak, which does not allow him to warp cloaked nor move very fast while cloaked). You also don't understand the concept of a 1point disruptor, which just so happens to only put on one point of scramble - ie if you absolutely need to, you can fit 1 point of stab and be brilliantly impervious to his scrambling.
And really, you don't need anything to rat effectively in lowsec, much less a frickin' Enyo. What have you been fitting, cargo expanders and civilian railguns?
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.05.01 05:15:00 -
[46]
OMG you people who keep quoting me as saying an inty warped cloaked GO DIE! lol. I just said inty it obviously wasnt an inty it was a covert ops ship...
Again much thanks to the people who gave alot of great advice ( which is what i wanted, not a fleet of flamers telling me to stop complaining because i died heh again for the record dying is have the fun! )
Big mistake was using an AB2 instead of a MWD drive, and I guess my drone would have helped didnt realize ships can be that paper thin in eve :) Once again thx to those who posted with advice I learned alot in this thread and am gonna re-equip and head back out for another kick at the cat :P
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Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.05.01 10:34:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
OP said...
Here's the problem:
An inty with a cloak on must take at least 30 seconds after decloaking, before he can start locking you.
If you were to warp out during this period he has no way to stop you. UNfortunatley it seems you weren't keeping a close eye on local chat and your overview - which is an essential part of ratting in low sec or 0.0
However dont feel bad, I've lost apocs stacked with expensive gear to small gangs of frigates because i wasn't concentrating before. Just shrug and carry on, and don't make the same mistake again.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.01 11:21:00 -
[48]
U learn from youre mistakes u have learnt one never fly more than u can afford to loose and all that. U will be fine join a PVP corp or alliance that does some NPC (better stillg et out into 0.0 make some friends and enemies and have fun)
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Sin Koon
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Posted - 2006.05.01 12:13:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
The problem is the issue where I was unable to do anything to try to fight back, that is all very simple.
Lol. As you say in a later answer, you didnt even tell your drone to attack. So you werent very keen on fighting back, were you? Did you do anything at all? Or just sit there?
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Again I don't care if I die, that is part of the fun I just want to fight back have a chance etc.
Then fit accordingly. If you cant kill the 00 rats anymore then, go rat in lowsec.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Your allowed to disagree but I am afraid if the answer comes down to warp to a safe spot and log out if someone shows up in local, then indeed the game is broken. Added 1 Stab is stupid because anyone set up to tackle is going to tackle me with or without 1 stab, not sure why people reply with such simpleton answers lol (like somoene else suggesting I use my 1 drone in a enyo LMAO yes that is rip him a new one and fast!).
How long do you think an inty can have 2 disruptors and an mwd running?
Plus the tips given to you were not only safespotting. You were told several counters, you just cant be arsed to fit (or even do!) any of them.
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.05.01 12:29:00 -
[50]
Theres no problem with the game, its the nanobotter guy who screwed up. The best advice I can give is to keep playing, maybe you'll learn eventually.
------ Originally by: Gazon
In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
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sallyr
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Posted - 2006.05.01 12:41:00 -
[51]
there are much more unfair things in the game other then scramblers lol
ew, nos etc
but i think it kind of works as it is
how about just fit wcs next time or a jammer that will work with the rats as well
also nothing in the whole of eve other then a covert ops cruser and frig can warp cloaked
the only thing they can do is cloak in 1 place and fly around VERY VERY SLOWLY!!!
with a large recalabration time
the enyo could not have attacked you in the way you are discribing, you are simply mistaken.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.05.01 13:08:00 -
[52]
Fitting 1 WCS (Warp Core Stabalizer) shouldn't ruin your ability to kill rats. In .4 - .1 the biggest ship your going up agenst are battlecruisers. I find that top grade guns (neutrons/medium pulse/280mm artilleries) requires to much pg/grid for NPC'ing. Instead med or low are preferred, gives you much more flexibility.
And about you getting killed, that was fair. You wasn't fit to fight the covert ops. 1 wcs would have fixed that problem in more ways than 1. If the covert ops/tackler had a 2 point scrambler on, you could web him as it only has 7.5km range. Otherwise you could just run out.
Anyways, glad you have learned from your mistake. Keep up the spirit 
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.05.01 23:38:00 -
[53]
Will 1 WCS allow me to warp when I get tackled by a cov ops ship with a bank of scramblers? getting ready to head back out again and wanna be better prepared this time :)
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Daddy's Princess
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Posted - 2006.05.02 00:18:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
[Orange] The problem is the issue where I was unable to do anything to try to fight back,
Don't take this as a flame, but there are plenty of these situations in eve. And it's usually due to the other player preparing ahead.
Take being sniped from 180km. Nothing you can do once you fall for the trap but you could have avoided being in that situation.
Warping into a bubble camp. Same as above.
I could go on. So please, stop claiming imbalance. It is actually a perfect balance. For every action there is a reaction. The thing is in eve, it often plays out before the fight even begins... oh wait, aren't most real life battles like that too?
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Ignasi
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Posted - 2006.05.02 00:19:00 -
[55]
If you want to rat in 0.0 without stabs, keep an eye on local and get to a safe spot when a person appears in local that you cannot kill. If you suspect they can probe you, cycle safe spots.
If you fit stabs, you can keep ratting when such person appears but your ability to rat will be damaged. Plus chances are you'll still have to leave when the person appears in your belt. Not recommended, but possible on larger ships with a lot of low slots.
It sounds like you want the best of both worlds-the ability to rat in low sec undisturbed even when enemies appear in local. This just isn't how EVE works, because it would remove the risk involved in making lots of isk in low sec and then in turn make the game boring. Perhaps you should consider an essentially PvE only MMO, like WoW?
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I buy/sell any and all faction ships. Drop me a line if interested in doing business! |
Ishen Villone
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Posted - 2006.05.02 00:25:00 -
[56]
Am I understnading this right in that the OP wants to have a setup that can rat well and "cover all bases" for PvP?
But what if the enemy fits the same uber setup... 
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Lyra VX
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Posted - 2006.05.02 01:06:00 -
[57]
So you were flying an Enyo with blasters (which, as you know, trade range for damage), and got caught by an Interceptor that stayed out of your miniscule range?
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but you _could_ have chosen rails instead. Blasters are not cemented to Enyos. The bottom line is that your setup did not account for interceptors that stayed at range at all.
Also, a cloaked inty will have had to wait several seconds (6 I think with cloaking level 4) before he could even lock you. Ergo, you sat there for that time before he even began to attack you.
Not all the game's fault, methinks. |
Jaddor
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Posted - 2006.05.02 01:41:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Last night I encountered what i feel is a pretty terrible game imbalance. I am fairly new to pvp in EvE was in a low sec system and a cloaked inty warped to the belt i was ratting in, and then preceeded to warp scamble me and hold me there for a few minutes till his friends came to kill me... Nothing I could do nothing at all, he was out of my range and i was configured for ultra short range fighting and he was FASTER than me. ( i was in a enyo with a AB and a webber but he stayed just out of webbing range and was faster than I )
Is this a troll post or are you just whining like a noob?
Seriously think before you post, you are a new player, you learned a lesson, don't make the same mistake twice.
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Attractive Spokesmodel
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Posted - 2006.05.02 01:49:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Setup vs Setup, that's really all it amounts to... There are no dice rolls...
This isn't directly about this thread, but the "no dice rolls" thing is what I've always seen as a minor weakness.
We fly these ships on missions and in PVP. We traverse the width and breadth of space through the most hostile environment imaginable. Doesn't it make sense that every once in a while a module might not work properly.
Perhaps an X percent chance of failure based on time elapsed between services?
I'm not even sure if I like the idea and its my idea, but sometimes I think these little details might add a touch more realism and might tip the balance in a fe2w fights here and there.
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Lisento Slaven
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Posted - 2006.05.02 01:51:00 -
[60]
I think the game is balanced. It's just that you were not aware of what precautions to take when going into a low security area.
If you are not going into a low security prepped for PVP, then you should fit something to help you get out of PVP (warp core stabilizer is the biggest aid in that). Otherwise...always rig your ship with t he possibility of PVP when going into low security or even during war in high security.
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