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Infibutar
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:19:00 -
[1]
if your warp lands you within 15km of the gate, you get a 10 second penalty before the gate lets you start jumping.
Reason: the lock-on sensors of the gate have trouble scanning for ships that close.
If you land 15km or farther away it has a lock on you already, and is just waiting for you to get close enough to jump. If you have a MWD that gets you to the gate in less than 10 seconds, from 15km away, you can still jump right away at 2km.
If you're cloaked, you suffer no penalty, as your warp within 15km would still mean you would be cloaked while waiting for permission to jump.
Only ships that might still benefit from instas would be ones that could hold off getting locked by campers using modules. Shuttles would not be so lucky.
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abraheam
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:26:00 -
[2]
"if your warp lands you within 15km of the gate, you get a 10 second penalty before the gate lets you start jumping."
/not signed.
Instas are the only thing that in a lot of times stand between a ship and getting insta popped. On one thread you have people complaing about getting ganked in high sec. And all of the responses state instas as a certified way to combat this.
Although I dont hang out in empire, instas should not be nerfed. You guys can still get plenty of kills on people to stupid or lazy to use them. If you cant, find another profession. Or you could move into 0.0 where you can set up warp bubbles and negate instas the REAL way.
Also since I dont live in Jita and am 50 jumps from empire I am not auto piloting all the way to empire, not because I am afrad of getting popped but because it would take to fricken long.
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:28:00 -
[3]
Ok, thanks for killing the game.
The reason why they dont want to touch this system is because every person in eve relies on them...heavily. Massive fleets are moved with instas. Haulers would never survive in low sec/0.0 (or with the more recent things, in high sec as well).
That is the problem with removing/changing instas. Everyone has become soo dependant on them, that it would KILL the game.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:34:00 -
[4]
Horrible!
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Augustus Emperius
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:38:00 -
[5]
then why not get rid of the 15km rule all together? instas are keeping people away from joining EVE, considering once they find out that it takes hours to copy instas into your bookmark folder, even though you've already bought them. I have over 1400 bookmarks that I can put into my folder and use as instas, but that would take hours of the single dumbest work ever.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2006.04.29 19:43:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: jbob2000
Ok, thanks for killing the game.
The reason why they dont want to touch this system is because some people in eve rely on them...heavily. Massive fleets are moved with instas. Haulers would never survive in low sec/0.0 (or with the more recent things, in high sec as well).
That is the problem with removing/changing instas. Everyone has become soo dependant on them, that it would KILL the game.
There i fixed it for you. Personally I don't have a single insta and I refuse to copy a single one in my people and places. Instas ruin the game and need to go. Simple as that.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:21:00 -
[7]
Yes, because you've evidently studied them and their effects and know that removing them will be trouble-free. Wait, you won't use them so you don't know. Heh.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Augustus Emperius
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:29:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Augustus Emperius on 29/04/2006 20:28:54
Instead of trying to make the game better and more accessible to new players, you all just whine and ***** about an exploit CCP won't deal with in a timely fasion.
I just can't wait until CCP nerfs the things and all you whiny babies come here crying your brains out. I will laugh, and laugh hard.
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wierchas noobhunter
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:40:00 -
[9]
all ok with instas we dont need any "solutions"
nice mode ON/off
Naughty - don't discuss moderation on the forums! - Cathath |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Augustus Emperius
Edited by: Augustus Emperius on 29/04/2006 20:28:54
Instead of trying to make the game better and more accessible to new players, you all just whine and ***** about an exploit CCP won't deal with in a timely fasion.
I just can't wait until CCP nerfs the things and all you whiny babies come here crying your brains out. I will laugh, and laugh hard.
I'll be too busy killing mouthy people like you to whine if this solution is implemented.
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Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:46:00 -
[11]
CCP are dealing with this...
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=330288&page=1#5
Listen to the Dev Fest - they clearly explain in there that they are sorting instas/ wcs out in kali...
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
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Dev ARQ |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:49:00 -
[12]
And the transcripts are... ?
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Ramez Baltar
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:53:00 -
[13]
They could always just make bubbles more powerful, cheaper, or less skills to use. I think bubbles are a reasonable solution anyway.
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zoreka
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Posted - 2006.04.29 21:35:00 -
[14]
what i find interstion is that people want to make this game as close to real life as posible, unless it affect gankers and gate campers, then it is unfare. in real life ijbm would be called pirate warp points. Just like in the battletech universe all it take is the time to get correct record of the jump area.
also notice how i did nto use pvpers. I do not see ganker and gate campers as true pvpers.
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Lord Slater
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Posted - 2006.04.29 21:54:00 -
[15]
Ive heard of this 'solution' before. Pretty bad it was them too. 
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methosbhunter
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Posted - 2006.04.29 21:55:00 -
[16]
Edited by: methosbhunter on 29/04/2006 21:58:25
i say anyone that complains about instas needs this to happen
1. take note of there name and set standings to -10 and kill them whenever you can.
2. use search agents to find them to make this possible to do.
3. Stop complaining if your such a nub that you cant kill someone with instas i feel bad for you i have corp m8s that do it all the time yes a insta will put you on a gate so you can jump instantly but what about the gate they are comeing from.
you got to remember they still have to line up and warp from that gate and yes use warp bubbles handy little buggers. if still haveing a problem get a better profession piracy is fun but there is alot more profitable things out there and most people that comeplain about this subject is alliance members that cant seem to catch that little bugger instaing through there space
Let me state something instas are a very important thing to the economy one they allow for items out of manufactureing to get to station to be sold much quicker and through zero sec this can be handy.
they are a much faster way to travel and also they are a bookmarked location which people use bookmarks for more then just insta warps to station they use them to bm there safespots , hidden astroid belts , and so many other things to do away with instas is to do away with bookmarks and i dont know about you but if that ever happened i would stop playing eve along with 20 thousand other people. so quit your whining and get back in the corner like mommy told you to and have a nice day 
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Lavintol
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lavintol on 29/04/2006 22:02:04
Anyone whose against instas should really look at how many ships they will lose at gatecamps in low sec and 0.0
I am a pirate and I like gatecamps, but without instas, no ship is going to take the pounding decent gatecamps will put out.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yes, because you've evidently studied them and their effects and know that removing them will be trouble-free. Wait, you won't use them so you don't know. Heh.
Well yes i do have studied them extensively. Most likely a lot better than you and exactly because of that I decided to get rid of instas. I refuse to use something that is ruining the game.
Will removing them be trouble free? Of course not, too many people play lazy and rely on them. But because of that every new player also starts relying on them and they will never look for a solution. Damage keeps going up on ships. why? well because travel setups are virtually nonexistant now. Why fit for travel when you can simply instajump around? Why sacrifice a gyrostab or a heat sink for a nanofiber or an overdrive? Speed is not important anymore.
Why bother trying to start a small market in aridia when people simply insta to julai and buy everything there? Why bother trying to defend your borders? People simply insta through the gatecamp and then go so fast you can't catch them.
Bubble a gate? Oh please, if you really think that that works then you obviously have never used them. Sure if you have 30 minutes time and 15 med bubbles you might be able to close down a system. Otherwise they will only catch the very stupid.
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methosbhunter
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:18:00 -
[19]
ok heres the long reply again sigh... ok here goes you so freely state that they are lazy to use but do you really understand all the work it takes to use them one you have to find the bookmark amongst god knows how many in each system you jump into and use the right one.
you use the wrong one you end up god knows where and have to find your way again i know do it all the time and 14k bookmarks aint easy to sort through.
also it aint lazy takes alot of work and attention lazy is hit the autopilot and go watch a movie or something :P
if you are seriously going to keep pushing on this subject i think you need to get nerfed.
and shall i say it yes indeed i shall for your post of wanting to nerf instas here ya go
RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE!
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:19:00 -
[20]
The game is working remarkably smoothly for something which is "ruined", and a lot of the ships and gameplay systems are based arround instas.
It's not playing lazy, it's using the gsme systems to your advantage. If I didn't use insta's, I'd never have left Empire. It's too risky without them - you can't move as much as a T1 frigate without a cloaked scout, which is a stupid overreaction.
Damage has gone up because of T2 amo, no other reason. THAT is entirely broken.
Speed is still absolutely critical for many parts of the game - that your activities and focus don't happen to include missions, or cargo running on insta-routes and burning the remaining distance slowboat...or loads of other things dosn't mean other people don't use them.
And why bother? Well, you can't without having to relocate your entire operation because of sales order limits. THAT is why the market hasn't spread. Players don't WANT to have to travel for goods, they're not going to travel (and here's a hint: Yulai hasn't been a major trade hub for most goods for a LONG time, although it is for a few things) if there's the option...but the major sellers are just unwilling to relocate rarther than expand.
Just because you can rely on blobs and cleared space does not mean that the vast majority of players in Eve can.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Dukath
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: methosbhunter
ok heres the long reply again sigh... ok here goes you so freely state that they are lazy to use but do you really understand all the work it takes to use them one you have to find the bookmark amongst god knows how many in each system you jump into and use the right one.
you use the wrong one you end up god knows where and have to find your way again i know do it all the time and 14k bookmarks aint easy to sort through.
also it aint lazy takes alot of work and attention lazy is hit the autopilot and go watch a movie or something :P
if you are seriously going to keep pushing on this subject i think you need to get nerfed.
and shall i say it yes indeed i shall for your post of wanting to nerf instas here ya go
RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE!
tsk, do you realise that you can organise your bookmarks into folders? And that you can actually change the name of the bookmark? Instead of 'spot in <systemname>' you could call it pf-346 -> orvolle (insta)' . Then unless you area complete idiot it will take exactly 2 seconds to pick the correct bookmark. 2 seconds is still much below the uncloak timer when jumping into a system.
So using the wrong bookmark as an argument to claim that bookmarks are 'difficult' only makes yourself look stupid.
Btw: please set me to -10. Please come over to delve to kill me. I can't be difficult to catch right? Since i don't use instajumps.
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methosbhunter
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dukath
Originally by: methosbhunter
ok heres the long reply again sigh... ok here goes you so freely state that they are lazy to use but do you really understand all the work it takes to use them one you have to find the bookmark amongst god knows how many in each system you jump into and use the right one.
you use the wrong one you end up god knows where and have to find your way again i know do it all the time and 14k bookmarks aint easy to sort through.
also it aint lazy takes alot of work and attention lazy is hit the autopilot and go watch a movie or something :P
if you are seriously going to keep pushing on this subject i think you need to get nerfed.
and shall i say it yes indeed i shall for your post of wanting to nerf instas here ya go
RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE!
tsk, do you realise that you can organise your bookmarks into folders? And that you can actually change the name of the bookmark? Instead of 'spot in <systemname>' you could call it pf-346 -> orvolle (insta)' . Then unless you area complete idiot it will take exactly 2 seconds to pick the correct bookmark. 2 seconds is still much below the uncloak timer when jumping into a system.
So using the wrong bookmark as an argument to claim that bookmarks are 'difficult' only makes yourself look stupid.
Btw: please set me to -10. Please come over to delve to kill me. I can't be difficult to catch right? Since i don't use instajumps.
oh really now first of all i must tell you all of my bookmarks are properly labeled and in folders individualized by region as all of my bookmarks are direct from the postpatchbm king him self i have almost every region.. and second of all you try warping into a 6 gate system and pick out the right one in less then a second with like 40 bms in a list.
and it does happen to hit the wrong one ask anyone that uses them im sure they have done it once or twice or hit the one comeing from the wrong gate and end up 30km off the gate thats happened also..
and my friend Dukath you make your self sound like a idiot buy complaining about this subject and still seem to forget even though it under the uncloak time the ship still has to line up and warp which is not a easy feet for ships larger then a cruiser and that is prime time to warp and gank so do us all a favor and just shut up.. your annoying and no one wants to hear it. :)
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methosbhunter
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:54:00 -
[23]
oh and to let ya know man i wont come to system to kill ya and i wont set ya to negative ten as this is my alt of a alt that does nothing but sits in a station manufacturing and reproccessing every once and a while i will bring him out to mine kind of hard to kill anything with a carebear :).
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Glyn Davish
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Posted - 2006.04.29 23:09:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Glyn Davish on 29/04/2006 23:09:38
Grammar is your friend.
Discussing insta-bookmarks is tricky because they are used by so many people and are used to great effect. The only problem I really have with them is that they greatly reduce risk. Without a measurable amount of risk the game begins to stagnate. Who needs a convoy to protect goods when you can just click a bookmark? The game is still very active and there's still plenty of risk, but it's not crazy to envision a day when no one will be able to kill anybody that isn't alt-tabbed or a macro miner because they can just insta-jump to safety.
The solution won't be getting rid of them entirely, nor will it be keeping the mechanic the way it works currently. I think we need to keep insta threads civil and try to get some ideas flowing that both sides can agree to. A module that allows you to jump instantly? A limit on the number of times you can insta-jump per hour? A payable transport service? I don't have the answer but I think that we can all agree that we need to compromise.
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Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.04.29 23:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And the transcripts are... ?
check the link, 38 minutes out... as I said.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
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Dev ARQ |
Augustus Emperius
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Posted - 2006.04.30 06:00:00 -
[26]
if instas are just a great idea, then why the hell not just get rid of the 15km rule. Seriously, making them is a ***** and trying to put all the ones you buy into your folder is incredibly tedious and stupid. Either ditch the 15km rule or make installing them into your folder easy. It's incredibly stupid to keep the status quo, because no new players will join if this keeps up.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2006.04.30 06:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: methosbhunter
oh really now first of all i must tell you all of my bookmarks are properly labeled and in folders individualized by region as all of my bookmarks are direct from the postpatchbm king him self i have almost every region.. and second of all you try warping into a 6 gate system and pick out the right one in less then a second with like 40 bms in a list.
and it does happen to hit the wrong one ask anyone that uses them im sure they have done it once or twice or hit the one comeing from the wrong gate and end up 30km off the gate thats happened also..
Since I did use them extensively before I realised what damage they are doing to the game i'll even give you a hint. Don't group bookmarks by region. Group them by function. So have one folder called instajumps, one folder called safespots and a folder called POSes etc. Since inside a system the game will only show you the bookmarks from the system itself you just need to select the correct instajump out of all the instajumps in one system. (this varies between 2 to max 20 i'd say). And if you have such a hard time finding the correct one then i really have to say they aren't labelled well. Labelling does not only have to be correct but it has to be easy to select the correct item.
Maja Rkell, there are lots of systems that are apparently doing well on the outside while dying on the inside. Do you really believe capitalism is doing well with the massively growing number of poor people? Do you think our environment is doing well? Our energy consumption? We are using up a buffer now, once the buffer is gone then everything will go ape****. The same with instajumps, the effects are visible but not yet gamebreaking. But they are getting worse.
And if you think that only t2 gear is responsible for the increase in damage all around then it shows how little you really understand the game. There are many factors of which t2 gear is one, better skills are another and not having to fit travel is a third, beter organisation and focus fire, ...
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