Yes but it is probably the most profitable thing a new player can do when they just start out, they're introduced very early on in the tutorials and they give them a good stable income (about 2 million an hour) while their training up for other stuff like combat ships. If they aren't making much money then their going to give up.

You do that anyway.

And I called this huge attack on high sec for the last patch.
Guess I was just off by 6 months.
Every high sec mission runner just got totally screwed by you and the rest of your cartel buddies.

a newbie mining in empire space doesn't need arknor V or any of the other highends that don't spawn in highsec, which are most of the 200 days for me

veld V is 3d

Speaking as a missioner that doesn't blitz, I get probably a third of my income from good meta1-4 drops. I keep meta 4's to outfit kitchen sink ships. I reprocess anything worth <30k isk per unit, and use it to make manufacture ammo. Everything else sells.

I even trained up my industry alt to be a solid refiner. This change is going to hurt both sides of that equation.

I don't like it - mainly because I don't understand it.

If I did, I'd probably love it.

;)

Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.

The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.

I remember how the huge loot nerf they did a couple years ago was supposed to "fix" mining and still you need to run 3 accounts to make the same isk / hour mining as you do ratting.

CCP - congrats, you continue to find ways to screw me over.

Numbers come into play, yes. But you're forgetting one important thing... Nullsec would be great if it weren't for the people who live there. The people who like industry type stuff, don't like the kind of people who like to live in nullsec. The people who like to live in nullsec are joiners, followers, anti-entrepreneurs. People who want to do industry have a vision of themselves as forging their own path, creating something, finding the secret levers to make themselves powerful. What the budding industrialists don't realize right away is that even if all the mechanics were in place for them to be able to do unimpeded industry in nullsec is that it's trivially easy for any of the nullbear follower joiners to just roll and indy alt to fill their own needs.

There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it.

The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.

So to fix that you make null the only place viable to do production? Can't there be an equal divide.....

I don't think that fixing null industry and not nerfing empire industry are really mutually exclusive. Null industry can be fixed without driving the empire industry to the ground.

Some lessons I've learned in life:
If someone says trust me, they are lying.
If someone says I'm not trying to **** you, they are trying to **** me
If someone says I don't want to intrude, they are about to intrude.

If someone were truly acting in your best interests typically they will not tell so but rather give you the ability to check it out for yourself. Trust is only ever asked for or even needed when someone is attempting to abuse that trust.

I never said you were lying. Of the 3 examples I gave the only one that relates directly to what you said is "he and the rest of the CSM were not out to screw high sec". The others were just examples of other ways people usually say the opposite of the truth. In this case you said you were not out to screw high sec when you just in this post now indicated that you always have been. So thank you reinforcing my point.

huh? I think you replied to the wrong post. what you said here doesn't make any sense in relation to anything I've said much less anything linked here. I never stated anything even remotely close to that. Please tell me that was a posting error on your part.

CCP Ytterbium, if the Minmatar Outpost once fully upgraded is the new "100%" could the numbers not be adjusted to reflect this? Some players may (and probably will) get extremely cranky to invest so much time and isk into getting there refining to perfect skills and implants only to see they refine at 86.8%

You do not get back to back blocades, missions are randomised so no, what you are suggesting cannot happen.

since when that became a lot of isk for "we so rich bla bla" folk? indestructible asset if you lose it you can reclaim it later

Nullsec facilities will be able to yield roughly 20% more minerals relative to highsec facilities. This seems like a rather significant buff. Eve being all about risk/reward balancing, with this large increased reward for nullsec, where is the corresponding increased risk?

(And please don't say "hauling it to nullsec is the risk", as highsec ore haulers are just as possible to blow up, something demonstrated daily in Niarja.)

MDD