Does this mean capital modules will have their volumes adjusted to a more reasonable level now?

This seems like a huge nerf for alchemy done outside of sov null. While Ytterbium is going to fix the 50% drop in yield in all alchemy, the lack of a strong refining station is going to hit alchemy especially hard. This is in part because the refining array module only gives its balancing high efficiency refines to ore and ice. This seems to cut into the ability to run alchemy reactions of non-sovholders pretty heavy, by giving the max base refine for them as 50%. The sovholders already have a fuel bonus in producing the reacted goo, and are now getting an additional (relative) bonus due to having much higher potential refine.

My understanding is that the primary purpose of this change is to nerf mineral compression and buff local mining/industry, but it seems that alchemy as a whole was not properly considered in this rebalance, especially considering the earlier oversight with ore/ice having yields increased at the same rate as alchemy products.

I feel that the proposed changes should probably gone over with a fresh eye to consider what effect each change will have on it, especially as one of the main purposes of alchemy's introduction was to break up large moon cartels. Giving sov null a heavy bonus to the alchemy means that they can at any time price e.g. npcnull out of running these reactions, making it potentially ineffective.

tl;dr
This nerfs alchemy extremely hard for anyone who does not hold sov. I don't think this was intentional.

Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.

so this is the industry revamp?

what about the terrible UI?

what about all the pointless clicking?

this is the result of the industry survey? really?

Have you ever even been in a null belt?

Also because of people saying **** like this null ores were jammed full of low-ends, so cram it.

So,

Overall this makes me extremely unhappy, its tearing the very fabric of T1 production in the game into shreds.

Currently

Mine Minerals

Build whatever you want, when you're bored of it repro it into the 100% base materials and build something else. Module compression for production was a side effect of this. It also meant that a useless unfavored module / hull could be scrapped in favor of something useful, minus rigs(well except this *extra minerals* business)

Get bored of it entirely make something more profitable out of it and market it.

After ReproGeddon.

Mine Minerals - Get more minerals than before
When something is built its built that way for good.
No more clay molding materials Back and forth into whatever.
All hail the miners that supply everything, long live the mining bots.

Other Things
So the mineral compression blueprints are being bought back, what about module compression blueprints? Theres going to be alot of useless bastion module, 425 railguns, tachyon and other blueprints.

So this will also affectively nerf the reprocessing of drops that get reprocessed by ~50%? post change will rat / mission drops be adjusted? I mean most of what drops is useless and gets repro'd anyway with a minor amount of things being put onto the market because they sell higher than they repro.

If nullsec mining is to be a *thing* could we get the sov indicies removed from the map? this has always been a terrible thing and never used for its intended purpose of nice built up sov, ill take that. Its only been used for griefing.

Speaking of griefing, since you're cracking into things that have been that way for a long time and really probably should have been changed a long time ago how about a change to AFK CLOAKY CAMPING?

The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.

After years of reading these blogs and seeing the results I can only conclude one of two things. Either the CCP Devs are totally and completely incompetent or they are lying. Spoken more directly option 2 would be that they are working behind the scenes to reduce the amount of players that can pay for game time with in game money. Since they have allowed PLEXs to be moved and thus lost to the RNG gods and with the aurum scandal a few years back and now ship painting for aurum it seems like option 2 is more likely.

Just had a thought - since scrap metal reprocessing will have a heavily reduced output, what are the chances of reintroducing drone alloys into the game, perhaps in smaller total amounts?

It will be interesting how much the cartels will be telling people how to play the game when Star Citizen, or some other similar game, hits the market.

So what are we talking about here? In the situation that null miners were not feeling that they were too good or too chicken **** to mine a belt, it would be the same as high? God forbid.

I have to agree with this guy. Past efforts to increase the value of mining has only lead to a devaluing of income from players who actually play the game and an increase in the incentive for large Coalitions to lock down huge sections of null sec and make sure that very little of it is used and then have large scale mining bot operations deep in blue territory. I saw this first hand in scalding pass a few years ago with that Russian prince who got outted with that RMT scandal back then and I doubt a whole bunch has changed since then.

These changes will only further alienate and discourage actual players and further incentivise bots.

Mining is yes but restricting the profits of it to only those who live in null sov space I feel is a little off

Oh so now High/low sec (and btw I no longer mine or produce but I know many who do) miners shouldn't rely on there own stocks they should buy there minerals from there null sec overlords. Bows to the CFC

It would be nice to see you answer something without spin once in a while. Clearly, nosec is totally unrewarding and no one wants to go there. Only by stripping hisec of everything will nosec be rewarding.

You do realize it's not a zero sum game, right?

That is only true for Ores.

Modules will not receive this boost, and modules are heavily used in mineral compression to move massive amounts of materials around.

Null is actually getting a nerf at the same time it is getting a buff.

So like I was getting at the problem isn't that there isn't a mountain Veld, or Trit if you prefer, in null. It's just that people don't feel like actually taking it.

More lies. Anomalies in high sec are mined out very quickly. There is system after system of belts in null sec with great ore that you guys can't seem to figure out how to take safely. Either that or you are too lazy to take it.

The bigger problem seems to be though that null sec blocs don't like taking in industrial corporations. I've had my time in null sec and I've always noticed that the industrial corporations that did make it into an alliance were frowned upon by other corps. There are plenty of large industrial corps that could easily take over a large part of the external production and mining locally, if only they were accepted as part of a healthy sov holding entity. I'm not entirely sure what the reasoning behind this is though. Maybe it has something to do with maximum numbers allowed in alliance or something.

Empire is not getting nerfed? True IF You have PERFECT Refining Skills AND PERFECT Standings AND the 4% Refining Implant

So an industry player will have to train Reprocessing to 5, Reprocessing Efficiency to 5 and waste a clone to have the 4% implant (which requires Cybernetics 5 to plug-in BTW) ......... OHHH AND grind missions for XYZ months after training Social to 5 and all the skills required to run missions just to get a 1.2% "buff"

I thought CCP was trying to attract more people to this game.....

How is a maximum refining yield of 72.4% supposed to be attractive to anyone let alone a beginner?
Especially when it will now take months if not years of skill training and mission grinding to be able to get "decent" yield in 1 npc corporations stations.

I also notice the true minimum yield was never stated as the lowest yield quoted was for a character with Reprocessing 5 Reprocessing Efficiency 1 and PERFECT Standings......

I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about people. I'm talking about what it is they want out of the game, what their ambitions are.

The odd thing is, you in particular, and your alliance in general, are being the noisiest and least clever supporters of this change. No arguments, just noise. Noise does not make you right. You probably see as clearly as I do how this benefits the nullsec alliances.

This change will lead even further to nullsec stagnation. This change is bad for the game.

This will also kill starters profits.

It was very unprofitable to manifacture stuff as a starter. Now it will be even worse...

All of the minerals will start to dry-up and there will be nothing but ores in high sec. Mineral prices will go up like mad and all of the industrials specially new characters will start to loose money in high sec.

You have to do bunch of stuff to take your old profit again within low&null sec with the propability to loose all of the tings u carry

CCP, i wonder why we pay you money to work like slaves to get some fun from a game?

At least the reprocessing implant (slot 8) does not compete with the already competing ore mining and ice harvesting implants (slot 10).

The numbers ... consider this?
Station Equipment 50%
Refining 5
Refining Efficiency 5
Ore Processing 4
No implant

So you're saying that the skills and implants are actually meaningful now? Excellent.

GǪif you're refining scrap metal, which you shouldn't be doing in highsec anyway. For everything else, you can either outsource it for more cash or just do things better and faster in high now than you could before.

Close. It gives null a handy advantage for anything made out of junk (and is sitll far lower than it used to be). For everything else, highsec will still be the source of the minerals.

How about giving low sec and npc null sec some much needed love as you suggested in the Blog ytterbium. I assume you are referring the POS changes being the buff to low sec, even though it will still be much easier to use the POS in high sec.

Increase the base reprocessing rate of stations in low sec and npc null sec to 55%.

Smelt.

You smelt alumina to make aluminium

You also smelt aluminium scrap to make aluminium.

The process of rendering "stuff containing the metal I'm after" into "the metal I'm after" is smelting.

If I read the blog correctly, then 55% would put low sec just above a POS, but still below a null sec outpost which is 60%.

I don't really get the rage over the implant, it's only like 300m, if they were asking people for a cosmos implant or something maybe that would be an issue but the 4% is like nothing, not even the cost of a normal set of +5s

It is not the new perfect, the new perfect can only be achieved if you are an alliance holder in null sec with a minmatar fully upgraded station. To be honest I have no problem with this, but at least extend some of the benefit to low sec and npc null.

I'm not asking for what you get, I am simply asking for a modicum of benefit over high sec stations. And conducting industry in the back ends of low sec or npc null is not without risk.

An upcoming industrial overlord needs somewhere to start, and we cannot all jump straight into null sec with a fully upgraded minmatar outpost.

I'm simply suggesting something along the lines of a 55% station for low sec or npc null. That would make something in low sec which is actually worth fighting for.

So the idea is to make the economy jump everything in cost by 30% or to make all the indie players quit so nothing get's made at all. great plan.

minners are also not the once who do the ungodly mark ups its the people who move stuff in via jf or carrier and wh on the off occasions

At least then it would take some effort to benefit from the changes instead of just a freebie gift to dev-bros. I mean, nullsec doesn't HAVE to be better at absolutely everything. I never saw that written down anywhere by anyone who matters. But if the devs are gonna give free stuff to their bros, it could at least take a little bit of effort.

ok you guys ***** about the upgrade cost but forget who makes the prices on them

I'm not completely sure about this, but does this mean that even if you train scrap metal reprocessing to five, module reprocessing is going to take a massive hit in the nuts?

As this is a big part of my mineral influx ,im not sure i will be very happy about these changes.

TLDR: You can do whatever you want so long as we aren't telling you what to do at the time.

way too long dev blog...... wtf

This is not even remotely close to the same reproc rate.

An occupation of scooping trash has become trash.

Maybe there's a smaller trash heap inside?

Actually thanks to the new profession/career/PvP we know and love called Miner-Bumping & Ganking nulsec belts are quite severely safer than what we have in high sec. 5 seconds away from our keyboard means we come back wherever we had our clone at. 5 seconds away from your keyboard means the neut is still 7-8 jumps away from you so you can decide if it's time to dock up.

Taking nearly 30% of a yield is not a small change by any means, I now have to do 30% more to match miners who now have to do 10% less, and null folks who do nothing to suckle on the teet of R32/R64 Passive moongoo.

I shouldn't have to contemplate branching out, I shouldn't have to contemplate moving, the only reason for this change is to appease null sec groups and CCP's ridiculous fascination with reading news reports about how 4K nolifes spent 18 hours fighting in .01% real time.

I get you are Goonie, and have blued 3/4 of EVE already, but I don't feel that forcing folks to kiss a ring of a null lord is promoting emergent game play. It makes no sense and only further decreases the value of living and operating in Low Security space.

[quote=Querns]
Then make your recruiters do their stinking jobs and get 3 day old guys in ventures out there mining that crap. 1,000 guys in Ventures have to be better than your trit-drip you see. With changes to corp members allowed you guys have plenty of free space to get them doing gruntwork and still pay them worth their time.

What world do you live in? I still see ice belts and planets to do pi at in highsec. We have the SAME ice belt mechanics in null as you do in empire.

Hasnt it always been like that?

Don't forget that CCP already dropped their shorts to the Goons when they added trit and pyerite to the mid grade ores a while back. Does anyone remember King windbag's pompous diatribe about farms and fields?

I guess that didn't work so now we have to try to rig the game some more to enable these people to be even more lazy than they already are. I invite anyone here to stop listening to the Goonswarm windbags who flood these forums with their crybaby antics and pick any path through null sec and visit system after system of belts that are never touched by a mining laser. Billions upon billions in ore and ice that never gets touched by a player. Yet all we see is post after post about how these people can't get enough minerals to make their precious supercaps. It is comical that these supposedly hardcore players who control hundreds of systems and have 20,000 members can't manage to put together a few billion tritanium.

And to top it all off, it is the "carebear" that is ruining the game!

You realize you are ridiculing the people that elected you into your role as CSM right? If you dislike being CSM so much why not just drop your position?

Perhaps this is what it means.

Dense Veldspar [old] Batch Size=333; produces 1100 Tritanium: Dense Veldspar [new] Batch Size=100 produces 457 Tritanium or 1377 @ 300

an increase of 25.18% in mineral yield.

Funny to see goonies telling everyone how mining works when across their vast 3/4 of null asteroid belts sit untouched. "Oooh the mechanics" What a load of **** Mynnna. I respect your grasp on economics in the game but this is a pretty weak reach for justifying the fact that all across CFC space there are thousands of roids untouched. Its not the mechanics, its cowardice and laziness. Im sure if you could passively grab those rocks like moongoo you and your friends would have stopped complaining years ago.

Let me guess its the afk cloaky dudes fault. Maybe you should have Martini ask for another round of forum alt warriors to spread the news.

What a joke.

Actually its because most of the null players don't actually play unless there is a timer and jabber ping telling them to form up. Then they send as many warm bodies as they can to said fight and replace the lost ships with their passive income from Moongoo. They don't need to mine because they just buy all the stuff from highsec and jump it out to null sec in jump freighters.

That is why they have no one mining, they don't need to, and they don't have the players willing to do it. Most of their folks unsub unless its wartime, or some new nullsec group shows up that they can easily farm for kills without expending effort or risk.

But several months of whining on EVEO about how imbalanced mineral acquisition is between Null and HS is entirely relevant. Give me a break son. Go ask Mittens for another cup of koolaid and more talking points. You can't spend half a year whining about something when you completely refuse to do the process yourself.

Well you can, but trying to play it off is pathetic. But hey parrot away.

Thread-naughts have a way of reaffirming interest in a specific topic. Which is why Mittens doesn't hesitate to call posting CTA's for certain thread topics. I am sure as this change gets closer we will see even more CFC forum warriors arrive to ramp up the page counts with useless drivel about how the pubbies just don't get it.

You are probably correct here. No one could possibly know about respawn rate timers on rocks day to day and the arguments on popping rocks vs leaving traces in them, popping roid sites to respawn new ones, or anything of that nature. Nobody reads or researches in their spare time.

you are going to pretend like mittens (a.k.a. the mitani) and the Devs don't have circle jerk parties when he goes to Iceland and that his time as a CSM has not gained him a personal realtionship with them? Or are we going to pretend like the Devs haven't been caught more than once helping out their favorite null sec alliance like the Free BPOs they gave to BOB. The guy is not making some conspiracy theory he's pointing out a cozy relationship that does exist between the CCP devs and the big null sec alliance heads and a history of those cozy relationships leading to favoritism and in some cases outright cheating.

Oh Daniel, you don't believe their lies about how null sec belts work either? These guys act like no one can fly out there and see system after system of rocks that have sat for YEARS. They act like the respawn rate of the rocks has anything to do with the fact that they can't be bothered to mine themselves or compel their members to mine for them.

I figure once this new change fails to generate any significant amount of mining in null sec (outside of attempts to manipulate markets of course) that the Goons will just ask CCP to bypass all the other game mechanics that they can't be bothered to use and just put Supercaps directly in their hangars.

Oh dear, a member of the Turdswarm "economic cabal" can't refute what I have to say so we get a cutesy post.

Obviously they set the bar quite low for that particular brain trust.

Oh thanks for the primer on rock size and spawn rates. That completely explains why you can't seem to get in a mining ship and mine.

Math is hard after the change if you have max skills you will get the same yield out of a block of veld as you would pre patch. People in null will get slightly more yield out of the same block of veld if they have upgraded their station.

Obviously an across the board 14.4% advantage in refining changes this situation of "no low end minerals" dramatically.

Of course by "dramatically" I mean not at all and I can't figure out why you are so dense that you just tried to offer that as a point.

At some point, you or your members are going to have to get in a ship and mine if you want to build things. You know...."HTFU!" and play the game if you want the shiny toys. Even after this patch goes live you will have to do that.

Furthermore, if you would take your own advice and "read back a few pages" you will plainly see that I pointed out that I have lived in null sec and know how the asteroids work just fine. It might just save you some typing next time. Apparently I also did the impossible while I was out there... since I ran a mining and manufacturing operation. All of my trit and pyerite came right off the market at less than Jita prices thanks to those annoying hauler spawns in neighboring NPC null.

Regarding the Minmatar Outpost providing no advantage over the other racial ones when it's not upgraded, that's a good point, will look into that one.

One question for everybody.

Will you be able to reprocess stuff in low sec at higher ratio?

For example at 0.4 sec you ll get 60% at 0.1 90% and at null 100%?

If not then i suggest it

JF's should not be able to carry Compressed Ore or have a special bay which can limits the amount they can. In that way conflict is driven by having to move freighters into Low Sec.

AKA still not competitive with 0.0, unlike what it is right now.

No thanks, keep compression a proper profession for which you either need a Rorqual or a POS, I would even suggest that the POS module should use the same skills as are necessary for the Rorqual to compress.

I love how Nullseccers quickly switch their stance on their opposition to dumbing things down when it is about to affect their production chains. Just suck it up and deal with it like everyone else is going to have to.

If there intended goal was to nerf compression why not just change the m3 values of the modules themselves, I mean its not very realistic in the first place.

No one said that they cannot participate. But there is a difference between participating and being able to do everything straight of the bat.

If compression is made as easy as you suggest, then there will be no point in the Rorqual, and no point in this new POS module.

Also you only need the ore processing skills to level IV to use the rorqual compression blueprints currently, the same should be the case for the POS module too.

funnily enough, i lost at least three tanked macks to ganks exactly this way...

the new order takes on skiffs and even orcas. i know this first hand because i'm not always on the receiving side.

By that you mean to pay them the extortion money?

again, from first hand experience i can assure you that the new order will take on anyone it wants and the amount of tank is much less relevant than you seem to believe. 'tank your ship' is just as much a straw man as nullsec mining 'effort'.

If this change comes through, you will nerf income with which i support my pvp activities and increase the amount of isk that i require to actually pvp.

So effectively you reduced the fun/money ratio of my subscription. Again. Bad move, CCP, bad move.

Guess after this change I'll just use up the scraps of isk i usually keep around, trash the now worthless rest of my resources and biomass myself after.

for the third time, 'being obnoxious' has 0 impact on who gets ganked. being in the wrong place at the wrong time does, as does having no tank, but even if you do everything right(tm), the risk is still greater than 0 and thus greater than in a properly organized 0.0 mining op.

Some folks don't do it for the isk/hr. Some folks do it to build themselves ships they buy with LP. Many folks do actually. Typically you would get enough ore to produce the ship you want by doing the missions to get the LP you need to buy the BPO. With this change you would need to do 33% more missions in order to achieve the same effect.

As a self reliant player this is an unacceptable change.

i'm contemplating about if i should be so obnoxious as to claim that these mining ops just wern't organized properly. hello there, true scotsman...

Why not put bubbles on the gates and have a gate camp fleet. Not taking precautions means you asked for it to happen to you.

No one should die in 0.0 just like no one should die in HS. All of you are bitchmade if you think losing a ship is an example of risk taking. Losing a ship means you ****** up and suck.

and if your miners got caught, they are ****. or your intel is ****.

Then again given how empty your space is it doesn't shock me that you have no intel on who is where. Garbage pilots lose ships, good pilots don't.

But hey look at my exception guys! this is why Nullsec needs to be put on a pedestal!

Right so we agree, that "safety'" is relative and applies solely to the pilot sitting behind the keyboard. So how is the "safety" of HS at all relative to game balance if it is ultimately as "safe" as null sec

All that Nullsec requires over HS is time and effort in gaining and holding systems. Which is rewarded in the moons, and minerals available to pilots to retrieve. It is rewarded in the superior isk generation of Anoms, and other such sites (exploration).

So maybe it is time to drop the whole risk/reward thing, and focus on the effort/reward thing, which would require CCP to acknowledge that Sov mechanics are crap for the benefits you receive.

CCP MAKES BIG ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THE SUMMER, CONTAINING:

• No new ships
• No new play styles
• No new content
• No new reason to play the game

BUT THE INNOVATION DOESN'T STOP THERE!

Oh no. We get to take salvaging and reprocessing--a boring and thankless necessity--and make it 40% more thankless.

Not your brightest move, CCP!

Right but why do they need to change the mechanics of HS as well.

Minerals in NS are not readily available in HS so there is no apparent competition in that regard. NS would provide the higher end stuff, while HS supplies the baseline stuff.

The only reason to change HS is out of some ill placed false belief that one is more safe then the other. Since we have established that HS and NS are effectively as safe as each other, then what is the reasoning behind the nerf to HS?

Light nerf?! Did you even read the article. In high sec, module reprocessing returns drop 30-40% at any skill level. That's not a light nerf. That's a heavy kick in the groin nerf.

I'm generally ok with reprocessing being better in low/null. But 40% better? That's a bad mechanic. Low and null already have better minerals, better rats, better missions, and PvP T2 salvage. We don't need to make high sec yet another 40% disadvantaged. It's overkill and unnecessary.

But it is in the nerf (nearly one third of resources procurement), and ultimately it doesn't change the capacity for people to bring ore in the form of modules. All the change does is encourages people to ship to NS compress or make more trips with with modules for the same effect.

I am sure you see how this change ultimately accomplishes nothing but reduce further the capacity of LS space to generate meaningful income. You either move to HS and benefit from the changes there, or move to NS and benefit from the changes there. Mining in LS and Mission running in LS both take a hit to the overall comparable capacity, while taking all the risk same risks of NS (and HS) with none of the defensive capability that NS and HS provide.

Ultimately the cost increase of LS production is increasing while HS is staying relatively the same, and NS is getting even cheaper. This becomes a big detractor for a region of space that has already been shat on numerous time in the past by CCPs forever war with balancing NS and HS.

If you can't secure the space you are in, then you don't deserve the space and should live in HS.

Fact is though there are more safety measures available in NS.

Concord doesn't give me any safety, they dish out punishment for people who break the law. Are you unsure how the system works? They are as effective as having 20 dudes sitting in local with you. Maybe the issue you have is to much space and not enough people actually using it, except your 20 friends are allowed to shoot first.

get better friends?

Like I said if you can't secure the space, then you don't deserve the space. If you are not maximizing your potential profits in that space because you are afraid of being shot, you either have to much space, not enough active friends in that space, or are just risk averse and afraid to actually embody the whole "risk vs reward" thing you flaunt around like some holy grail.

Its not game mechanics that makes you earn less than you should. Its your choice to do that.

If you have 20 people in local then your interceptor friend isn't going to readily combat you unless he has 20 friends sitting on the other side of a gate, or on the ass end of a cyno. Which you should be able to have intel on, and if you don't you need better friends.

Justifying nerfs based on cowardice and unwillingness for a group of people to exploit what they have is pathetic.

Heh an interceptor ganking a plexer/ratter or miner.

Just tank your Mack brah and put drones on him. No Corp fits in GSF for tanking mining ships I guess?

Oh interceptor is out but now the T3 is in? hue hue hue. Come on guy, keep grasping.

You don't mine because you choose not to, not because you can't. You make less money plexing because you choose to not because you can't make more. There is no mechanics that put NS at a disadvantage pound for pound everything in NS is better isk wise, and more profitable market wise.

Choosing not to exploit that is based on your own unwillingness not because of lopsided mechanics. Perhaps if 90% of your systems weren't uninhabited you would see different results, but I am sure its hard when the vast majority of your alliance and coalition mates only log in/show up for timers and jabber pings.

And Baltec, that battleship comparison was the most stupid thing I have yet seen you come out with, a unfitted BS on a gate in null compared to a unfitted BS in Jita on a gate. If it was a bing fitted BS they are likely do die much faster in Jita, you Goons are losing it if you come out with pap like that!

Generally you have to actually do something in order to do it. You know like actually mining asteroids in order to get the minerals. But I know I know bad isk/hr, so lets reduce that isk/hr everywhere else while not increasing it at all in the apparent problem area. Good Fix to a non-existant problem guys!.

Because people do missions and plexes in unfit ships. Come on GSF are these the best posters you got?

vi-+gnette
vin-êyet
noun
1. a brief evocative description, account, or episode.
2. a small illustration or portrait photograph that fades into its background without a definite border.

Only proof here is that GSF can't secure even their home region, and have a lot of bad pilots. Hey guys we lose a lot of ships in our home region, so obviously HS needs a nerf. No no its not our fault for being bad and having terrible pilots who die to interceptors in our home region of space!

Not sure what you are trying to prove other than the fact you guys can't provide security and lack the initiative to do so. But hey lets blame it on HS having Concord and claiming it is infinitely safer despite doing nothing to prevent it.

You should go ask Mittani for some more talking points yours have become laughably stale.

"Hey guys we need to import lowends from High Sec, Ya we export Highends, but its not the same!"

You are digging yourself even deeper which is why you tried to recover by the post immediately after this, that was funny, and yet you are most likely thinking you won that.

Unrequired, I can see how much mining goes on in nullsec as I romp around your coalition space plexing in my mach laughing at how pathetic your arguments about HS being superior are. Thanks for the isk brosef.

Null entities don't use what they have because income is in passive moongoo and renting. Nerf moongoo into the ground and see the tears really flow because making isk from plexing and mining requires :effort: much easier to let moons pay the SRP and only undock when Mittens summons you to a timer.

Yet when you linked it a little bit ago it was concrete evidence of activity. Come on Goonie your mind tricks don't work on me, I am immune to the koolaid.

Corp tax to the alliance?

You might not be but i have been discussing what merits this change the whole time.

Nothing warrants it. CFC and N3/PL don't use the space they have currently. So why should Low Sec and High Sec take a hit because Null Sec alliances refuse to use what they have?

Then you need to get a system in place that collects the minerals/ores and tax them according to their value. Shouldn't be too hard for an entity with your capacities.
I, however, was more referring to that corps pay taxes (sort of membership fees) to the alliance. It's not unheard of, has been used in the past already and it is up to the corps to organize the taxation of things that you named. For miners the minerals/ores are collected by the corp and taxed as described, for ratters and plexers their bounty tax should be enough to pay their chunk.

there is absolutely nothing stopping CCP from simply doubling the minerals in meta 1-4 loot. there is a chance that part get's nerfed/fixed and i really hope they adjust it a bit. i need to know some better numbers before i made a definite statement (how much loot is actually reprocessed and how many minerals come from it)

Kind of pissed I didn't think of it 62 pages ago.

And as an added benefit it becomes very lucrative to ship stuff to null to refine, then ship it right back to jita to sell. Goons for arbitrage, anyone?

I own a rorqual and the only reason I had it was to compress the ore that was mined in the WH.


Then came change 1... Seems me ore sites no longer were hidden. Seems someone thought it was too much work to actually get skilled at scanning and to learn to scan. You could mine in a WH and hit Dscan when the probes showed up you ran. At least the null guys have local. Now in WHs there are no warning probes and no warning local. Consequence: Mining in WHs is basically suicide unless you have no WHs open into you. Guess what, mining basically stopped in our WH... well except that new guy that just lost his hulk due to the above.

Now this change... I love the new interface, don't get me wrong. I love the compression changes except for all that training I did so I could compress every ore out there. But... do I need a rorqual? Absolutely not! I have a 1.5 billion dollar paperweight sitting in my POS. If I ever mine again in my home I am setting up my refinery. after all I only compressed the ore so I could haul the ore out and refine it in a HS station that did far better than my refinery at the POS.

Seems with the new compression module to add to your POS the only use the rorqual had is gone. So CCP while you are giving me my money back for all those BPOs how about reimbursing me for the rorqual as well?



On to refining skills.

If the argument is that to be good at something you should have to skill it should apply to every way that you do something regardless of where you live. My skill 4s and 5s should mean something if I am refining ore at my POS. That investment in training should mean something important. It should provide me with an advantage over the guy that has no skill. Regardless of where you are and what you are using, when you use it, whether its an AB, a 150mm gun or mineral refining, your skills should give you an advantage over the guy without skills.

And there you are again with your ISK/hour mentality. There doesn't need to be a buff to income, you can get 15M+ ticks in belts as it is, with proper chaining.

do you seriously believe that people are going to buy raw ore, refine it in null and ship minerals back to highsec ?

I could see it being more beneficial either to make the ore compression a station service or a deployable or to make the compression mineral based instead of ore based. Either way, I think that the Rorqual should compress more efficiently that the POS module.

large scale moon mining operations ? the moon goo is send to jita and sold. in some cases it's sold to the member corps or individual players. those then do reactions. on anonymous alts in lowsec. btw: did you know that reactions are entirely different from other industrial stuff ? mainly because they don't require sov, don't require outposts, don't require slots. all you need is an anonymous pos in lowsec.

The subtle corollary of the Refining* amendments ie. to dislodge the parasitic capitalists of Highsec, is laudable; however I cannot support the changes as they stand as I foresee that the greatest burden of the changes will fall on the most disadvantaged of New Eden citizens, namely, Rookies.

At the moment, Rookies, of limited means and in NPC corps may refine to the best of their ability with 5/4/1, losing perhaps 2.5% thru imperfect standings. After the change, each ore commonly found in Highsec shall require further training of approx. 125hrs for V/Sc/Py/Pl and 250 hrs for O. The Highsec anomaly ores K/J/Hem require 250 hrs, and Hed 375. Thus, the average Rookie player with a smattering of +3/+2 implants who has already trained 5/4/1 will require another approx 31 days training in order to refine the belt-sourced ores - yet to an inferior degree to which they can presently. (The 4% implant is out of the reach of most Rookies, even if they know it exists, and so expensive as to require a jump clone which also will be out of the reach of the average NPC member Rookie). In order to have perfect refining for all Highsec ores, the average Rookie will need to spend a total of approx. 80 days training.

Random numbers. I could also have taken 10/1 or 10/7, doesn't change the fact.

I turn around words in other's mouths, find loopholes in other's logics or extend their's in ways they don't want to see it extended, I grudge other's theoretical and practical success, and want to see others wriggle like an eel when they justify their logic and their way to play the game. There are more ifs connected to everything in EVE, there is no non-if-able solution in EVE, so I just do what is obvious. Makes me the perfect EVE player in the current state of things, doesn't it?

Because it does solve none of the more fundamental problems in the game and kicks tons of existing problems just further down the road. Moreover, there is already more than enough reward to be had outside of High sec, as stated before (unless the posts were deleted in CCP's "private cleaning party"), but people just cannot be bothered to reap them and put effort into. This change also does not change any of the reasons for many people to not go into 00 sec space, because many of their reasons are not solvable/changeable by changing game mechanics. It only makes their lifes more difficult, nothing else (also as stated before and in other threads).
Another example are the immense and exuberant expectations that people have and are driven to have with regards to SRP. What is your SRP again? Pay people double the price of the ships they fly? Something like that at least. That's sick, on the one hand, and it turns people into spoiled crybabies who don't know the effort, investments and time that is needed to create these things and they don't need to invest time and effort to earn these things. On the other hand, the more people demand such SRP, the more easy money the alliance needs to make, which turns into an neat spiral with a very well-known end. In High sec, people at least fly around in their stuff they have earned through mission grinding or mining (or botting, if you wish), but certain 00 focused entities foist the impression on me that they depend entirely on being able to provide people with such extensive SRP to keep them on board. I am convinced that this is not something that should be supported further than it already is.

No, I do not say that you should build your ships on your own, that is nonsense and what industrialists and miners are for. But thanks for trying to turn my words into your favor. What I say is that people should not be entitled to a life with a silver spoon in the mouth, but to earn their living.

Because these organizations try to shape the game in way it's favorable to them, not for the game. For instance. So I have every right to be concerned and concern myself with the matters, because I don't pay money to fund your game.

Because not everyone is wiling to invest as much time and money into living in 00 for reasons that better money there cannot compensate (family, job, social life, other hobbies, other games, ...). Not everyone can and wants to dedicate themselves to a live in constant motion, but just wants to enjoy spaceships. That is something you cannot have in 00 all the time; 00 demands your dedication because of wars, CTAs, defense fleets, etc. (I repeat myself here)
Because botters in 00 need more maintenance than in High sec and can be easily disrupted.

You've already forgotten about the lengthy fights in B-R and HED? Your Hell Camp of N3s staging system in Detorid? Your funny token system for fleet participation, and if not done sufficiently you get booted from the alliance? This is the stuff I am talking about and this is "sure as hell" your alliance.

Right, your coalition call it strat ops ... Oh wait ... ... CTA Strat Op even... Are we really down to letter picking now?

If your a serious miner your going to want to be able to refine everything at perfect levels to get the most out of your activity. Hence 20 million skill points now required instead of previous 5.5 million for perfect.

so evil high sec traders and industrialists use magic to spown all moon mining materials for t2 production and all high end minerals coming from high sec belts and evil risk free wh dwellers helping evil high sec bears to live in prosperity while poor sov null can only have 200% SRP, pay sov bills for hundreds systems (mostly empty). where have you got money to buy everything from jita?

yeah that last part makes no sense. Why train the skills if a player can use a PoS that "pretends" you have max skills.

Why is that not changed then? What is the point of this station role splitting anyways? PVP driver, because people need to move stuff around? That's working very well right now, with JF and Rorqus jumping the stuff around. Why not remove this split roles, at least for the industrial stuff.

It still makes sense to have an Administrative Outpost because administration always requires extra space, and the Science Outpost (while absolutely with the docking and so on) makes sense because Research and Invention are, at least in theory, dangerous and can lead to undesirable mishaps. But Refining/Reprocessing and Manufacturing should be available in 1 Station.

So you don't want to be Foxconn but you want to be Foxconn. Do I understand that correctly?

126 million in fuel is less than the cost of the 4% refining implant, which is currently going for 250 million.


Not to mention if we count the PLEX worth to train almost a years worth of refining skills to max refining the PoS starts to look like a steal. Infact it would take almost 5 years to break even on that training time to make a the skills for refining better than what you can do by default at a small PoS. Thats just absurd I think.

one year of plex = 7.4 TRILLION isk
one month of pos fuel = 1.5 billion

Break even = 4.9 YEARS for skills to be better than simply paying for the PoS fuel.

i dont wanna repeat myself but i answered this point above. just buy the ore and enjoy the +4% spread in refining

right, but I am saying your better off paying the reoccurring cost for the PoS fuel than bothering to train the skills.

A POS doesn't need to be online or even there all of the time. Anchoring and on-lining the POS and/or ORE compressing structure as needed is the way to go for mobile and const conscious mining groups. The online/anchor times are reasonable these days and do not tie you down to one location. You require maybe a few hours of fuel a day and after the mining is done.

Use a dedicated corp with one or two good toons in there that have all around good standing to raise posses in the region your interested in and your golden versus the competition. The 2nd guys is a ORE hauler that can use these structures and is in fleet. Being the hauler just got a tiny bit more interesting :)

I said too much already, before you know it i am optimizing all your EVE endeavors...where is the fun in that? Be creative, be smart about it and adaptive...then you will love this change to get more rich game play!

You can un-anchor them at great speed, it doesn't need to be offline at all, it can....not be there!

I wonder how many "producers" have spent or will spend, the 100+ days to skill up for just highsec ore compression / refining. To date the only reason those skills were required was to compress in a Rorqual, they will now be required for reprocessing (as it is being called). Skills along with a +4 implant, which is likely to run for between 1 and 4 bil, turns what was easily done by all in a station into a large investment in time training + isk and will be just as easily achieved by a pos module with no skills required.

There's no point in arguing back and forth on any of these "improvements"; CCP's going to introduce them to the game with possibly a small tweak here and there but, there will be no major changes. They've invested too much into what they presented in the blog to do otherwise.

There's been no kind of official response to any of the questions or issues raised in over 60 pages and I'm not holding my breath for any.

CCP's happy, the null dominated CSM signed off on this, the null bloc advocates are happy so, that's all that matters. Who cares if it kills off a source of income for high sec missioners and makes things tougher for rookies? Those chumps don't matter anyway, right?

Yay rig prices are gonna go up even more -_- , Seriously just leave it where it is.

CCP, are you really going to allow minerals to be created, above and beyond what is contained in ore?

Your formulas show rates of above 100%. Is 100% the hard limit, or are you just going to be silly and poof minerals out of thin air and harm the economy?

I think that compression has to be moved into station, and here is why: http://i.imgur.com/OzN40XM.png
What you're looking at is a calculation of approximately one jump freighter full of compressed minerals: a decent amount, but not a huge amount of minerals: sufficient to build a good number of battleships or the like or do an initial seed of the market. Nothing crazy though: you certainly couldn't build a titan with that.

That one jump freighter of minerals requires forty eight round trips in a freighter (at least, I just eyeballed it) to get the ore to a pos for compression. That's insane: that's an obscene amount of work even if all the ore is already located in the system itself. It's far, far more than you need right now (as the ore is bulkier than the minerals you'd haul before to compress).

That's a ludicrous amount of insanely boring grunt work - that you can't even pay someone else to courier because it has to go to a pos. It doesn't add any content for anyone else: a freighter warping to and from a station is invulnerable as long as they can be bothered to dock up if someone tries to agress their freighter. It just adds a lot of unneeded human misery to the game that can't be fun for anyone.

I think there's value in maintaining pos as a possibility (or even an improvement): let people compress with the bpos in station, requiring them to waste slots on their alts and in the station, and making it take time. That will encourage people to use a pos (or put one into their routine, unloading into the pos instead of a station) but allows people to work with ore that someone's put on the market in a way that isn't pointlessly cruel to the poor sucker who does forty eight round trips in a charon and pretends he's having fun in a video game.

Then there are the ones who will load up a Venture and go mining...but the reduction in yield means they have to sell ore and not minerals

I would imagine the loss in income potential for those mining would be the biggest problem.

In high sec, at a pos, since it just magically assumes max refine, The best refiner ever will be a Trial user.
1. They are not paying for the game yet
2. They get max refine at a PoS since it magically assumes max refine, due to ccp's lack of ability to fix there PoS code.
3. They get to laugh REALLY HARD at the guy with 15 million skill points in reprocessing as there skill set is irreverent at a pos in high sec.
4. They are already in high sec anyway, and are playing for free! (The guy with 15 million sp in reprocessing can't, hes off trial!)
5. Profit just as much as someone who actually pays for the game for years to train all the reprocessing skills to max.

You can join a player corp though that has one.

You can't be serious?
You don't see a problem with that statement, I am so glad you don't do my taxes.
Your basing your assumption on ore selling for 10 - 20% more than it does now?

So unless miners can sell ore for 20% more than they could get "now", they will be losing income.

Having outposts being more efficient at refining than POSes violates the principles of interaction (you can't negatively interact with an outpost apart from reinforcing it: there's no risk of loss) and entitlement.

You know I swear I heard the devs tell us awhile back that when they re worked the ice belts it would make things better too, and that it was so null sec corps would want to ice mine more and make it more reasonable for prices cause no they null sec alliance would be able to mine there own ice easier. I really start to wonder if they even play this game cause when they reworked the ice belts all it did was drive the prices of ice and ice products up, for things that need ice even fuel blocks and jump fuel. So now when the rework the refining this will drive the prices off all ores up cause the high sec miners will not get as good refine and in order to get perfect refine we need to buy a implant that means you have planned to break something that is working fine. Well ccp is driving itself to ruin cause instead of fixing things they are damaging them and with no real content for the basic player IE new mission, and storylines the game is losing its luster and they have had less subscriptions then normal and more players seem to be leaving then staying. maybe they need to leave the reprocessing they way it is and work on something that is really broken

^^^^This^^^^
Why did I waste my time training it? I hate mining so I rat and repro the loot for my mins to build with. Now I have to buy a POS and monthly fuel costs, a refining array and a jump clone with refining implants just to get CLOSE to what I'm getting now.

So much for the "New Player Experince". I hope they like their noob ships. They're going to be in them a looooong time now. Ship prices are gonna jump again. I can see 400mil Domis by the end of the second week after the expansion. Great for the indy's,not so great for the new people.

Just buy your ores compressed.. There you go, a bazillion less JF warps required by you.

The null sec caretels

Having compression available in stations would completely kill the Compression Array in all of hisec due to the prevalence of stations.

Like building capitals in low sec is risk-free.

originally,
"Amarr, Caldari and Gallente outposts can be upgraded to further increase ore and ice reprocessing by 2%, 4% and 7% (for a total of 52%, 54% and 57%)
Minmatar outposts can be upgraded to add further 3%, 7% and 10% on ore and ice reprocessing rates (for a total of 53%, 57% and 60%)"

so now Minmatar starts at 52% then 54%, the remaining tiers r 57 and 60 , or we add a further 10% on base to end up with 62% as max?

I absolutely do not understand why CCP is so vehement about not allowing people reach 100% refine rates even with perfect skills/implants.

Translation: CCP ****** up hardcore with making everything use PLEX so now they're trying to fix the inflation by messing with compression, refining, and reprocessing.

I'm not sure if it's already been asked (I am not going to read 80+pages).
But now that all Outposts have the same starting base refinery then doesn't that make the Minmitar station near-useless untill upgraded.
It has limited offices and factory slots in comparison to the other stations.

Will it have additional factory slots or offices etc to make up for the boost your giving to the other stations ?

Given the option between unlimited station storage and a very limited capacity POS module, which do you use? Station, of course. Anyone that says otherwise is a bald faced liar. Your example is completely incomparable to the station/POS differences being discussed because of the practically limitless capacity of station hangers.

Should we now bring up the number of Research Labs currently in use in hisec as a replacement for the total and complete lack of research lines in stations? Those are pretty important. Or perhaps the fact that Drug Labs and Reactors cannot be anchored in .4 or higher sec space? Should we then allow boosters, moon reactions, and hybrid polymers to be made in nul/lowsec stations, too? What do you think would happen to all the moon reaction farms? I'm pretty sure they would disappear overnight.

Running a Small POS with a Compression Array is about as easy as it gets and it can be done with just a blockade runner, though in hisec it will most likely be done with a T1 industrial. 2km3 for the POS + 6km3 for the array leaves at least 1km3 for fuel, assuming you are max cargo expanded. Literally drop ore in, press butan, get bacon. When the hauler goes out to deliver the ore, it comes back with fuel.

But I think I can understand why goons seem to want station compression. It has nothing to do with entry barriers for newbros, since a newbro can simply sell the ore on the market for mineral cost, thus getting the full mineral content value of their ore rather than refining it and losing a significant portion of the value to poor skills and taxes.

It has to do with the fact that station compression will allow a single nulsec market alt to acquire everything he needs for a massive production effort such as supercap/titan production or hundreds of Megathrons without ever having to interact with anyone except their own jf and cyno alts, thus allowing them to cut out the extra costs and losses associated with the current mineral compression scheme.

Large-scale mineral consumers will not want to pay someone else to compress their "minerals" for them. Nor do they wish to run back and forth dozens between station and POS just to get their stuff ready to move. That will cost them even more than what they are paying now as either direct isk costs or opportunity costs. The most logical alternative for them is to advocate for station compression and claim it will be a quality of life improvement for everyone.

Goons' advocacy of station compression will cut out an entirely new subform of industry and take profits away from well-organized mining corps and PI manufacturers, and dump them right into their own pockets. It is in fact a counter to smart industrialists that put forth the effort to do things right and favors those that take the easy way out.

Those numbers are insane. As in bad game mechanics. (Unless you're trying to encourage botting.)

Anyway, it sounds like an opportunity for an Ore Compression Deployable. Or adding a compression module to an Orca. Or just getting rid of compression by making ore smaller.

The NullSec alliances will get a 20% benefit to reprocessing of ore. This difference can be used to pay people in HiSec to do the boring grunt work with compressing the ore at a POS. So for up to a 20% markup you could buy compressed ore in Jita instead of a pile of 425mm railguns, and the total mineral cost for your supercap production, once the ore is reprocessed in NullSec, will stay the same.

Your drive for station compression has a big fatal flaw IMHO.

It assumes there will be enough uncompressed ore on the market to begin with, which is highly disputable. In my view even absurd to expect and use as a basis. There will certainly not be many freighter loads per system per day.

The big miners that make up most of the mined ore volume, will simple compress in a POS and where they mine, they do not need stations for that. They do this because stations are too far out if they want to mine where rocks aren't all 70% eaten. They also do this because it simplifies their operating logistics. All your proposal does is make it easier for small time miners is to stay away from corporations that give them more industrial benefits then compression alone.

Including miners, the source of the ore, in your picture totally disrupts your argument that all hauling sores will be done by bots and puts players at a disadvantage somehow. Having compression in station actually is easier/safer for bots as it requires no corporation. This means there is nothing to target by players to disrupt the operation.

Your previous discussion partner is right that the combination of NPC station compression and high null-sec refine means that all non-compressed low end ore will be bought by null alliances, compressed and shipped out. They can always outbid the other market players every time they try to break in, thanks to the refine ratio advantage they enjoy at home. The end result will not be higher ore prices for the miners, but near exclusive below market value ore for those with refine access. Even if the per-system volume is rather low, it will stack over time and several systems, thus there will be few players/corporations exploiting this.

The fact is that station based compression actually helps bottling and drafts new miners as a working class for those with null outpost refine access. If history is anything to go by, those early miners will not get any benefit, they would be helped more by joining a corp and get mining bonus and POS compression early in the game.

Do you really want new miners to sit in NPC corps? I cannot think of anything more detrimental to new player retention than sitting in the NPC noob corp doing everything alone.

Again, the miners won't be making 25 trips back and forth between POS and station. If they have any sense at all, they will haul the ore directly to the POS from the mining site and compress it there prior to hauling it to a major market hub or local station for courier contracting.

Requiring them to join a corp and use a POS will encourage meaningful player-driven sandbox-style interaction within the game universe instead of making them reliant on NPC services.

Eve is best played with other people. Not by sitting in station flipping through NPC chat dialog boxes in a themepark-based setting.

The POS array will mean that it is somewhat less painful for me to set up shop in a system with no station, at least if I plan to stay for a little while.

In short you wan't players in NPC corporations to have all the same options as those in corporations. Avoiding the risk of getting to deal with a war declaration. If this underlies your whole reasoning, then I guess have to question if you are playing the same game as everyone else is.

Opting-in on one part of the game (the benefits of compression), but opting-out on the downsides (competing/fighting over resources) is very much not in the spirit of EVE. Do you really expect CCP to push the game in that direction instead of the other?

Individual miners that are not in a corporation are not going to mine anywhere near the volumes that require compression to begin with.

And is this "we" you speak of?

Do you live in null? Do you think the professional miners in high sec will not be able to deliver a steady supply of compressed veldspar? So much even that you want to buy raw ores and do compression yourself without effort, to close the gap?

There is such a thing called supply and demand, it affects prices. It will work itself out and miners will learn to move to locations and organisations where they can get a good price for their effort.

Mineral compression will no longer be a profession, nor will ore compression become a serious one. Those that try to make the step from one to the other are thinking too linear and too small in scope. I am pretty certain of this as it has to do with the benefits of POS based compression and refining to the miners (the source of the ore).

Compression will most certainly move down in the chain of events to the organised miner side. Refining, will split up a bit, it depends on the ORE and the volume the minerals in it and the availability of outpost refining. Miners who also train these skills for their T2 crystals will sort this out.

@Querns

You keep going back to situations where a lone wolf miner with large volumes of ore (for him) has fewer options and disadvantaged in other ways compared to people we organize.

Your replies assume, the situation is permanent and that miner has no option but to sit there doing the same thing he did before the changes and be forever disadvantaged.

It seems you replied to statements you did not understand and you even made several false presentations. You dismiss my arguments about being part of a corporation as if that alone would bring magic access to compression without any effort.

* You misrepresent that due to 24h notification, the POS driven PvP risk in high sec is a absurd. I can see this as trolling or plain ignorance, but will reply with a few points:

1. It is not just the POS, which ** underideal circumstances ** you can remove and rebuild later. Your mining fleet is at risk just the same and jumping between corporations has its limits these days.

2. While removing the POS, other corporations can simply take the free spot..no way you get that back without a fight.

3. Corp standing is not static, you might been able to anchor a pos at one time, but a few new member in your corp that draw the average down will undo that.

And they can suicide your ass and you cannot go back to said corp for another 7 days. You will be caught up unless you have an unlimited supply of corporations with proper standings ready.

Your counter argument is a fairy tale at best, an excuse to get whatever YOU want!

These arguments I have already debunked in lengthy posts...go back and read again. Your feature will not do what you claim it does, it only creates loopholes to be exploited and even hurt the players you champion in your posts, the most.

It is sickening really, you should go into politics.

I don't understand what the fascination is with instant compression, or instant refining for that matter. Why remove a variable that could make compression in stations doable, but not preferable to a POS?

Why i am even responding to tour continued misrepresentation is beyond even my imagination. You leave out all important details and justify that with a quote taken out of context.

Educate yourself by creating a new corporation using a new character and go straight for anchoring a POS. Anyone that ever anchored a POS can tell you it is NOT easy to get to that point and it involves quite some effort. Yet you say as if its a 30 minute training and 1.6m ISK

You must be the most naive player in EVE and we all would become more intelligent if they just gave you a forum ban...instantly!

Oh, now it is suddenly an effort to get into compression. A minute ago it was..essentially instant and virtually cost-less. New players never had anything resembling compression. Then you bring up reprocessing nerf...reprocessing of what? The 5 modules they get from killing a belt rat? What does that have to do with POS based ORE compresson bing a lure or a stick?

Exactly nothing!

If someone is daft enough to dec us due to the POS, then we will use the 24 hour ramp up to build a Goonswarm Federation approved D!ckstar(TM): Large Caldari POS, 13(?) appropriate hardeners to achieve nearly even 70% shield resists across all damage types, plus even number of racial ECM modules, as many as will fit (4x4 = 16, I believe).

As for the ore volumes...

100 Raw Ore = 1 Compressed ore = smaller in most cases.

Mercoxit has always been an overly dense ore and easier to transport as morphite. We used to mine 20k of it with every medium belt and it was pretty much always converted into morphite for transport. If you have the refining array right at your tower, you'll refine it on the spot. If not, you'll compress and take it off to a minmatar station. Compressed ore is just an intermediate state to shrink it from it's raw ore volume to an easier to manage size. Nothing says that the compressed block's m3 has to be less than what it refines into, does it?

So for regular veldspar as an example ... batch of 100 = 415 trit according to new chart... if we can only get 72.4% (300 units) out of it... what's the point of showing 415 if we're never gunna get that? Are there going to be additional skills so we can keep the 115 or is it just gunna be lost?

Just seems stupid that ccp would redo the quantities to numbers we'll never be able to get with max skills & max facilities

If the intention is to have 'dedicated' or whatever term you used reprocessing pilots then please refund us all our reprocessing skill points so we can make a dedicated alt to do reprocessing.

I'm really curious what will the outcome be, but for the time being the most profitable would probably be unsubbing the extra accounts I used for industry, there's no way the masses could compete with the power blocks. I guess more $$ into the top RMTers pockets... remember null sec is mostly ruled by pyramids with a couple guys on top.

Oh, lord....

Pot and kettle in a tree;
Both including irony.

So... an even bigger nerf to those people who hoped to at least break even from this fiasco?

Not the same thing. That was going to be the only pressure relief valve against the "go null or gtfo." Like the over-funded nullbears even need a buff to keep null stagnant.

And the net of your hundreds of posts in this thread is obvious meta gaming. How much ore did you stockpile before this even was announced?