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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6671
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Great change.
What's happening to conquerable stations? Do conquerable refineries remain 50% (and un-upgradable) instantly rendering them obsolete? Do conquerable factories remain refinery-free? I understand if the answer is yes, too much trouble to fix them/balance them for too little gain but I'd like to make sure.
Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6671
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations.
They are better than all NPC stations.
I also think they're already somewhat high. I'm not a fan of skill-free refining that's as good as an upgraded outpost that costs something like 40b. This change is so far-reaching and great I don't want to complain but the refining arrays are certainly on the "good enough, probably too good" side and definitely not on the "needs a buff" side. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6673
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
a mere 200 days to max out refining skills :suicide: Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6673
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
You've made a mistake, here:
Quote:As such, to keep ratio fairly identical, we are going to boost all minerals and ice products gained by reprocessing ores and ices approximately by 38.1% (1/0.724). This will apply to all the unrefined alchemy material as well.
Because alchemy uses scrapmetal which is getting nerfed, you need to boost it by its own percentage (instead of the ore percentage) to get it back to where it is now. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6674
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
The table does not have the new volumes of compressed ore. Is that deliberate? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6674
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Opner Dresden wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Dis gone be good. Seriously though industrialists everywhere rejoice. I spend 10 hours a day mining in null, I build everything from frigates to titans... this change is pretty much ****. SERIOUSLY... it's not broken, fix something else. i'm sure you mine for 10h each day and maybe make frigates in highsec but i'm quite sure the rest is a lie Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6674
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Orion Guardian wrote:[think about how easy it is to buy minerals in Highsec and how unlikely it is to have the same amount or ore bought....] and now this will change, obviously
think a little more Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6676
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Orion Guardian wrote:Weaselior wrote:Orion Guardian wrote:[think about how easy it is to buy minerals in Highsec and how unlikely it is to have the same amount or ore bought....] and now this will change, obviously think a little more I did, and yes it will change, but seeing the high Mineral consumption in Highsec I am not sure it will change much. Unless I am missing the point: Nullsec is not the biggest user of Minerals in itself (most of it is build in Highsec after all). So the Minerals are needed there as well. So if the stuff is left as ore to be exported to nullsec it is missing as potential quick sold stock in high. It gets alot more complex and the missing part of converting minerals back into a compressed state (The compressed ore -> Mineral side is quite easy, the backward-reaction that used to be Module compression is negated.) The economic system will adapt, but like a chemical reaction: If the backward path is completely blocked there are consequences far greater than just "tweaking the system" i'm going to put up buy orders for compressed ore and pubbies will fill them, because the ore is worth 14.4% more to me than them
the way they get the MOST money is to compress it, or sell it to someone who will compress it
you're fixated on compressing minerals instead of buying pre-compressed ore Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6676
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Unable to refine ore for profit?
Sell it, so someone else refines it.
Where's it written that Miners have to be the ones who refine ore? Especially newbie miners? one problem with that, generally I found that most ore buy orders were set about 10% below the regular market price for the ore while the minerals were generally much closer to the market value. There is nothing to stop a new syndicate forming that only buys ore at massively reduced price and then forcing the market price for the minerals up currently, only idiots sell ore because it's so trivial to get 100% refines in highsec, so the ore buy orders have an idiot tax in
it'll narrow Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Opner Dresden wrote:I don't get how CCP can take industry, especially low/null industry, and just give it a clean across the board nerf. Not mining, mining gets a minor nerf... but industry... just got a swift kick in the balls and more hoops to jump through. So for any sizable project, not only do we get massive spreadsheets to do the actual build, sourcing materials gets one as well, since finding the right minerals in the ore compositions is going to be a pain. Or we can do it ourselves, and run another POS (yes, just what I wanted to do, and in HS no less) and haul the heaviest stuff in eve all around in pitiful amounts.
And if you're goal was to make rorqual compression more useful, you failed, miserably. if you think this is a nerf to null industry you're utterly nuts Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
i look forward to drinking the milkshake of all the fools in nullsec who think this is a nerf Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Gilbaron wrote:assuming Weaseliors numbers are correct you can get 14.4% more minerals from your ore in nullsec than in highsec. that does not really sound like a nerf to me. No, it's an outright and desperate attempt of CCP to force more people into 00 sec - like cattle to the butcher. grow some balls and teeth. when we had the chance to choose between hotdropping carebears in providence and russian carebear renters we chose providence. mainly because the russian renters were fighting back. Why am I not surprised to read that? Oh ... right, because that is what 00 sec is about: Killing of those who cannot defend themselves instead of fighting those who fight back. And that is the environment CCP wants to force more people in. Rejoice! you're not being forced in, you're staying at exactly the same level of income as you cower in your hole
it's merely that the people who take greater risks can reap greater reqards Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
June Ting wrote: Please look at the issues with NPC null stations vs. sov null stations wrt alchemy I mentioned upthread please while you're looking at balancing alchemy yield.
NPC and sov null stations refine alchemy at the exact same rates: upgrades don't affect scrapmetal, only ore and ice. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:and as always, lowsec will get the biggest hit in the nuts......
CCP, why don't ou get rid of low directly instead of nerfing it every expansion?
nerf over nerf over nerf.......really?
this is already one of the most difficult place to live in, and it has the lowest income possibilitys, and you are making it worse EVERY SINGLE TIME....stop this lowsec recieves the 54% pos refinery, a net buff
it's not nerfed Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Arrendis wrote: So just to check, if I'm reading this right, the major advantage of compression for ice will be making it easier to haul it to the refining location - but that refining location will need to be in sov-null, or you're just throwing money away. If you're selling in high-sec, you're losing money on this change no matter what - either you don't get as much product, or you refine locally and need more JF runs to get the product to market.
Am I missing something, or is that an accurate assessment?
You'll sell your compressed ice in jita, then another null alliance buys it for the LO and brings it back. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Weaselior wrote:you're not being forced in, you're staying at exactly the same level of income as you cower in your hole
it's merely that the people who take greater risks can reap greater reqards ROFL ... greater risk. Never heard a better joke. you're crying about how 0.0 is too dangerous for you, then you post this
you should think a little harder next time Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote: no, this thing will still be worse than station refining we have now, and said station refining will be nerfed, making the pos array better but still worse than the curent situation -> it's a nerf
and i don't even talk here about the alchemy, where it is also nerfed, providing a de facto buff to null
wrong, as mineral composition is buffed so 50% is the same as it used to be, the pos is better than the current situation
it is a buff
also, alchemy (once they fix the math goof) is precisely the same everywhere after this as it is now Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ. Are there any changes to the effectiveness of ice compression? Those tables aren't updated - I assume because they're not changing but I want to be sure. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6677
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kuda Timberline wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong (the forums are good at that) but this is a nerf to those of us that took the time to theory craft mineral compression using modules.
Do I dare call this another dumbing down of EVE? you took the time to google all the work that was done years ago? this is much harder math-wise now: give me the ratio of ores to most accurately match a me1 erebus
you have ten minutes
(with railguns it is 35,400 railguns + some loose highends, something that took me under thirty seconds to figure out) Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6678
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote: Don't suppose you have a list of the minerals required for an ML 1 erebus? Just to save me doing the addition?
Capital Armor Plates420 Capital Capacitor Battery525 Capital Clone Vat Bay525 Capital Computer System420 Capital Construction Parts525 Capital Corporate Hangar Bay525 Capital Doomsday Weapon Mount525 Capital Drone Bay0 Capital Launcher Hardpoint0 Capital Jump Bridge Array525 Capital Jump Drive525 Capital Power Generator210 Capital Propulsion Engine420 Capital Sensor Cluster420 Capital Shield Emitter315 Capital Ship Maintenance Bay525 Capital Turret Hardpoint420 Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6678
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So let me get this straight. Joe high sec mission runner, who is currently getting 100% refine on modules, will now have to have a hugely expensive implant, plus weeks of skills, to achieve a 27.6% nerf in his mission loot income.
So what null sec cartel corp do you have your alt in?
i don't think you grasped how scrapmetal works in the current system, implants don't affect it and you're getting 55% of what you get now at most Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6678
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Orion Guardian wrote: And: Are there any changes to the time needed to compress? The BPs hat run times, which made compressing Ice kinda obsolete (you could mine it faster than you could compress it ;))
compression is instant now Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6682
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cheekything wrote: The 30 odd billion isk you have to sink into an minmatar outpost to tier 3 with maxium skill and implat 6% should net 100% refine
it nets better than 100% refine you twit, using today's rates
it is a buff you just are getting hung up on the percentages instead of understanding what those percentages mean to you Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6682
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:Weaselior wrote:a mere 200 days to max out refining skills :suicide: Which is why that particular change is ridiculous in that aspect. And even with those perfect skills, you will stil need perfect standings on top of the necessity to use a reprocessing implant to net the same yield you can in empire space right now. This is not an example of good design, as it places another tremendous barrier of entry to a young player who would like to get involved with mining and industry in the empire space. a newbie mining in empire space doesn't need arknor V or any of the other highends that don't spawn in highsec, which are most of the 200 days for me
veld V is 3d Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6682
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
One thing though, I'm concerned about compression in highsec needing a POS. The issue is that when you're transporting to a pos, you can't outsource: I have to do the hauling myself instead of courier contracts or the like. That puts a big dampner on the ability of compression to get done and done well, which has a real risk of throwing wrenches in the gears of nullsec industry as compression just can't keep up. I think it would make more sense for compression to be a station activity (though in station perhaps it does take time). Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6683
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sir HyperChrist wrote: However for the first part: if I area-buy compressed ores, someone else is doing the same tedious stuff, which makes it more expensive. The end result is the same.
you pay them part of the profit from your better refines, and you both profit Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6683
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote: what about outsourcing by simply buying compressed ore ?
I am concerned that with it being pos-only the supply may not match the demand. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6683
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sir HyperChrist wrote:Weaselior wrote:Sir HyperChrist wrote: However for the first part: if I area-buy compressed ores, someone else is doing the same tedious stuff, which makes it more expensive. The end result is the same.
you pay them part of the profit from your better refines, and you both profit We both lose compared to the current game...... you just admitted you gain by your increased yield Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6691
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
SOV OUTPOST UPGRADES DO NOT AFFECT ALCHEMY REFINES OR ANY OTHER SCRAPMETAL REFINES AND EVERYONE DOES THOSE AT EXACTLY THE SAME % STOP WHINING ABOUT ALCHEMY
(except 30% npc stations lawl) Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6691
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:so this is the industry revamp?
what about the terrible UI?
what about all the pointless clicking?
this is the result of the industry survey? really? this is the first post about a patch three months away
stop acting like it is the entire patch you nutjob Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6692
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:Emilia Istis wrote:as you know there is a little veldspar in null Have you ever even been in a null belt? Also because of people saying **** like this null ores were jammed full of low-ends, so cram it. have you?
did you see how you were the only person there? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6693
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Adellle Nadair wrote: The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null.
wrong Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6696
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
mkint wrote:Numbers come into play, yes. But you're forgetting one important thing... Nullsec would be great if it weren't for the people who live there. The people who like industry type stuff, don't like the kind of people who like to live in nullsec. The people who like to live in nullsec are joiners, followers, anti-entrepreneurs. People who want to do industry have a vision of themselves as forging their own path, creating something, finding the secret levers to make themselves powerful. What the budding industrialists don't realize right away is that even if all the mechanics were in place for them to be able to do unimpeded industry in nullsec is that it's trivially easy for any of the nullbear follower joiners to just roll and indy alt to fill their own needs. wrong Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6696
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sir HyperChrist wrote: Ehh, my corps' set of capital bpo's, jump freighters, mineral buying pipeline don't count? A silly 15B station isn't that expensive if you're talking capital construction on any relevant scale....
a tier3 station is about 60b and can be taken away from you forever, unlike your capital construction bpos which are never at risk Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6701
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
mkint wrote:There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it.
i'd just like to laugh again at the idea that if you want power what you should be is a highsec industrialist Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6701
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:It will be interesting how much the cartels will be telling people how to play the game when Star Citizen, or some other similar game, hits the market. and in 2020, we'll consider it Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6702
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote: So what are we talking about here? In the situation that null miners were not feeling that they were too good or too chicken **** to mine a belt, it would be the same as high? God forbid.
what we're talking about here is that your idea of what is in a null belt and what is actually in a null belt are two very different things and your ideas are wrong and you should correct them Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6702
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote: I have to agree with this guy. Past efforts to increase the value of mining has only lead to a devaluing of income from players who actually play the game and an increase in the incentive for large Coalitions to lock down huge sections of null sec and make sure that very little of it is used and then have large scale mining bot operations deep in blue territory. I saw this first hand in scalding pass a few years ago with that Russian prince who got outted with that RMT scandal back then and I doubt a whole bunch has changed since then.
These changes will only further alienate and discourage actual players and further incentivise bots.
what kind of nutjob thinks we conquer space for the mining Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6702
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 20:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Weaselior wrote:Gilbaron wrote: what about outsourcing by simply buying compressed ore ?
I am concerned that with it being pos-only the supply may not match the demand. Then it will become profitable to compress ore, and it will be worth your time to do it. it will literally never be worth MY time to do it, i've seen how much hauling is involved
we're talking endless freighterloads into a pos Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6703
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 20:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
Raquel Smith wrote: CCP is touching a part of the game which is sacred: perfect processing;
you need to get out more Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6705
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: You don't take more risks. that's the entire problem with your believes.
then surely you can compete just as easily with us by coming out to 0.0 Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6706
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
mkint wrote: I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about people. I'm talking about what it is they want out of the game, what their ambitions are.
The odd thing is, you in particular, and your alliance in general, are being the noisiest and least clever supporters of this change. No arguments, just noise. Noise does not make you right. You probably see as clearly as I do how this benefits the nullsec alliances.
This change will lead even further to nullsec stagnation. This change is bad for the game.
the arguments are laid out clearly in the devblog and the many things we've posted before on this subject
we don't need new arguments. if you had any we'd rebut them but all you have is screeching and rending of garments and generally hilarious mistakes about how the game works, so we can just point and laugh Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6706
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
no miner anywhere in highsec who has three braincells to rub together and can comprehend the tiny change to his routine to profit off this expansion loses a penny of income
needless to say we have a lot of miners who don't fit that bill in this thread Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Close. It gives null a handy advantage for anything made out of junk (and is sitll far lower than it used to be). For everything else, highsec will still be the source of the minerals. null has no scrapmetal bonus: everyone refines scrap the same Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
someone explain to me the gaping [insert logic here] in mkint's thinking on how this increases mineral prices while decreasing ore
does he think the margin for buying ore off 4-4, refining it, and relisting the mins will be huge despite the fact a single guy in jita can handle all of highsec's refining if that gap opens up Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Melek D'Ivri wrote:Weaselior wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So let me get this straight. Joe high sec mission runner, who is currently getting 100% refine on modules, will now have to have a hugely expensive implant, plus weeks of skills, to achieve a 27.6% nerf in his mission loot income.
So what null sec cartel corp do you have your alt in?
i don't think you grasped how scrapmetal works in the current system, implants don't affect it and you're getting 55% of what you get now at most (only scrapmetal processing, which is now 2% affects scrapmetal, nothing else, so 50% *1.10=55%) Both Refining and Refinery Efficiency affect modules reprocessing pre-nerf. As well as Implants. You can use an implant and skip Scrapmetal Processing currently, so yes, if you have Scrapmetal Processing and Implant is useless, but only then. You can currently get 100% yield on an item VERY easily with Standings (just need about 3 weeks of training instead of 6) i was unclear, i meant in the system in the devblog, which works how I said it does Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
mkint wrote:Weaselior wrote:someone explain to me the gaping [insert logic here] in mkint's thinking on how this increases mineral prices while decreasing ore
does he think the margin for buying ore off 4-4, refining it, and relisting the mins will be huge despite the fact a single guy in jita can handle all of highsec's refining if that gap opens up You really expect all refining to happen by 1 person from now on? Can we all sit down and think about what this goon is saying? From now on, EVE will only have 1 refiner everybody. We can all call it a day. Problem solved. All hail our goon overlords, come with healing in their hearts and joyous news on their tongues. nope, but i'm not surprised with reading comprehension skills and critical thinking skills like this you think this is a bad change
i will give you a few more breadcrumbs: if a single guy can pocket effort-free profits doing this, what's going to happen to the profit margins when guys two through two thousand try to get in on it Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
mkint wrote: And all it'll take is the skillpoints of a titan pilot. Thank goodness that's a normal state of affairs!
yeah uh no, that's not how many skillpoints it would take
a titan is two years of training
the 200 days was me, and much of that is highend ores, you can bust out all highsec ores easily by patch day, and that also included ampV because i was inattentive to my skillplan (whoops)
since i am an overman and live in null i may have need of highend refining as well so i'll do that but someone with zero refining skills can become a perfect veldspar refiner in under 30d then its about 5 days max for each additional highsec ore, so the people scrabbling in the dirt in highsec don't have that sort of training time
but yes, people more skilled than you should get more rewards but it takes like three guys with the skills in jita to drive profits down to minimal levels Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
I don't really get the rage over the implant, it's only like 300m, if they were asking people for a cosmos implant or something maybe that would be an issue but the 4% is like nothing, not even the cost of a normal set of +5s Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Krom Thomson wrote: and how do you get that we don't need the skills? some of us do refining for a living other see the saving in buying the ore and refining it to make are stuff
well if you're doing refining for a living you shouldn't complain you can specialize even more now Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6709
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
Krom Thomson wrote:Weaselior wrote:I don't really get the rage over the implant, it's only like 300m, if they were asking people for a cosmos implant or something maybe that would be an issue but the 4% is like nothing, not even the cost of a normal set of +5s the inplant is not what pi sses me off its the fact that you need it for perfect or well the new perfect of course you should need it to be the best highsec refiner you can be, what would the point be otherwise Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6709
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote: the inplant is not what pi sses me off its the fact that you need it for perfect or well the new perfect
It is not the new perfect, the new perfect can only be achieved if you are an alliance holder in null sec with a minmatar fully upgraded station. To be honest I have no problem with this, but at least extend some of the benefit to low sec and npc null.[/quote] you got benefits, you get free 54% no skill required refines
asking for what we get with stations that can be taken away from us would be unfair as you'd be getting the same reward without any of the risk Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6709
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: One option: form a corporation, make friends who are industrialists too. Then each of you can focus on different refining skills. Ultimately you'll get that 4 -> 5 training done much faster by having each corp member specialise until the entire corp is capable of perfect refines. Then you can all "backfill" the other refining skills over the entire 200-day period required.
Weaselior is only complaining because he has no friends and is not a team player. Or maybe he just likes complaining.
i do so love to complain
sadly the thing is only one person I know has a perfect refine guy handy, and since i deal with a lot of our mineral importation i need to be able to do it myself so i'll be training everything (plus, it lets me help out newbies and the like). that said though, i'll just target the same highsec ores everyone in highsec will be because that's the ore I need to refine, and I can be completionist once it's done Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6709
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote: I'm simply suggesting something along the lines of a 55% station for low sec or npc null. That would make something in low sec which is actually worth fighting for.
but they gave you that, a 54% pos
the station would be strictly superior to anything but a fully upgraded amarr or minmatar outpost, something that costs 60b all told (~40b to upgrade from the base outpost) so that would actually be unbalanced Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6717
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 03:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
Grendell wrote:Took some time to understand the blog, due to the wording. I still fail to see the logic behind half the numbers they have proposed. Overall thumbs down. Swing and miss. Try again. thats some fine number-reasoning there lou don't strain a muscle thinkin that hard, let alone all that writin Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6717
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 03:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:So building capitals is now the domain of sov holders as well as supers. How can anyone else compete in the market losing 27.6% when everyone in null is losing only 13.2% .
I honestly can't see how there will be any margin>
Look at the Moros Current Cost: 1930m New Sov Cost: 2185m New NPC Cost: 2463m
Difference: 278m
How can anyone compete with the sov holders when they will have a 280m margin? You aren't meant to compete with them. This whole change is precisely tailored at bringing in the long time request of large null sec alliances (expecially one) to have everything made the best for them "because we fought to hold sov". Therefore you are meant to either suck up and join them or close shop. sounds like you're complaining that you can't compete with us in any respect
that sounds like a personal problem, when you can't compete don't come begging for handouts Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6717
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 03:19:00 -
[57] - Quote
oh dear me in order to compete economically with nullsec i might have to put in a fraction of the effort they do?
heavens to betsy this can't be happening what kind of monster would put in a change that would do that
mommmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6718
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 03:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Rain6637 wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4365984#post4365984
i just think if it means moving, joining someone else, maybe it should be considered. if you're capable of building ships and making it happen on your own, I imagine there are people who will have you. I don't want to move and join other people. I am happy where I am. If null sec people are having a hard time finding warm bodies to do things for them, perhaps they should change their politics can not whine to CCP to change the game. actually, it sounds like your not happy where you are because even the slightest change made you unhappy
maybe you should contemplate branching out from just reprocessing mission loot, there's a wide world out there Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 13:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
Scaugh wrote: can you actually show me where this is a fact and not as a result of what you are saying.
go out and test, and you'll find out
if you don't believe the facts when we tell you them, what else are we going to do, tell them to you again? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 13:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: All player-driven industry should be better than any NPC-driven industry.
Rather than allow compression at stations, it should simply be possible to arrange for courier contracts to deliver things to POSes in some manner: for example a CHA anchored outside the shield (or a removal of the need for a POS shield at all).
Then there's always the option of replacing courier contracts with buy orders.
I'm happy with that plan, but I imagine its infesible programming-wise because it requires more effort than they're willing to give (though it would be a huge, huge deal that I think should be done). Otherwise there's ways to make station compressing not as good - require it to use manufacturing slots and taking time (you could repurpose all those compression bpos!).
Today I plan to work out exactly how many freighterloads of hauling people need to do to a pos to compress reasonable amounts of minerals, I have a sneaking suspicion its something obscene though since ore is bulky as all hell. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:admiral root wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:TL;DR: "we're privileged fucks who cannot be arsed to tap the income sources that are bread and butter for hisec residents, yet we complain about hisec being OP".
i think you should reconsider your messaging there... I think you should improve your understanding of the phrase "risk versus reward". i understand risk versus reward very well, thank you very much. the fact of the matter is that in deep sov 0.0, mining is arguably more safe than in hisec. and no, the investment it took to take the space does not count because you already have it, be it for ratting, moon mining, PI or just for epeen. the space is already there, you just want it to be even more profitable than it already is at the cost of people who prefer to play in a way different from yours. it is arguably more safe in the sense that if you ignore reality you can argue anything
it is not arguably more safe in the sense that there are legitimate arguments it is more safe Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:24:00 -
[62] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote: Furthermore, if you would take your own advice and "read back a few pages" you will plainly see that I pointed out that I have lived in null sec and know how the asteroids work just fine. It might just save you some typing next time. Apparently I also did the impossible while I was out there... since I ran a mining and manufacturing operation. All of my trit and pyerite came right off the market at less than Jita prices thanks to those annoying hauler spawns in neighboring NPC null.
i and one other person at one point were using an api parser to alert us to hauler spawns that people in our corporation had killed, back in the belt ratting days, and would then go take them in a rorqual (because nobody ever did because no ratter spends his day hauling trit back in an iteron). we basically collected all of the hauler spawn in the region, so I have a very good idea how many minerals that is.
the flow of minerals from hauler spawns was infintesimal compared to the needs of any alliance living in that space, and that was back when belt ratting was a thing (it no longer is thanks to the chaining nerf). i basically did it solely because it was hilarious and provided enough minerals for the alliance project i was working on, but it doesn't support any amount of industry and that is in the most heavily ratted nullsec region in the game
so you clearly don't actually know anything about nullsec industry and hauler spawns are a hilariously dumb suggestion here Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Crappeshotte wrote:TLDR, but I have a question for the Devs...
I own junk - ships and modules - across four hisec regions which I have bought specifically for the purposes of reprocessing. If I were to reprocess them all today - which isn't practical - they would convert into perhaps 20 billion ISK worth of minerals.
If I understand correctly - and I accept that I may not - after this change is introduced, the quantity of minerals I'd get back - and hence their value - would be dramatically less, even if I skilled up to the max (I'm currently at Scrapmetal Processing 4, Refining 5 and Refinery Efficiency 5) and despite having 8.0+ standing with two NPC Corps.
Am I missing something here, or is a lot of time and financial investment about to be wiped out? fortunately for you, they've announced this change months in advance Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 17:18:00 -
[64] - Quote
Yeah, I did the math as well: mineral compression is not as good as 425mms. I'm guessing that CCP made a mistake and assumed that, if you did a 100% refine the compressed ore is as good as 425mms are now. That's wrong though, it should be as good as 425mms are if you did a 86.86% refine, the highest you can get. That requires packing the ore a little bit more densely.
CCP Ytterbium: Could you take another look at the compression values and make sure they're where you want them to be, assuming you refine at a 60% minmatar instead of a hypothetical 100% refine? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 17:25:00 -
[65] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: However, if you increase the base yield of Minmatar stations, you easily run into the situation where lowsec builders cannot compete with nullsec builders. To be frank, lowsec has similar levels of risks as nullsec. The efforts to build ships there is roughly the same. So, with little increased effort, and little increased risk, I don't see the justification in increasing reward.
This is not at all true. A lowsec builder builds in station: he is utterly invulnerable and can never lose his station or have his bpos locked up. He also has a factory/refinery: perfect refines, 50 slots. It's the latter that nullsec has been utterly unable to compete with, as nullsec has no factory/refineries.
Even if minmatar refines are boosted, a lowsec station is better than an un-upgraded minmatar station because the minmatar station doesn't have any factory slots (it only has 5, making it impossible to produce caps well there). You'd have to be building at a pos, and placing yourself at greater risk of losing your baby ships (something a lowsec producer can never lose).
In addition, in null, you can lose your build station: even if I spend 60 billion making an improved factory/refinery I can build in-station, I can lose that station and have all my caps/cap bpos locked up. No lowsec producer ever faces that risk. The lowsec producer simply moves in and doesn't have to work for his space, pay to upgrade it, defend it, and risk losing it. Nullsec producers must do all four. It's nonsense that they face "little increased effort" and "little increased risk", as a lowsec builder needs to expend no effort and suffer no risk. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 17:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Krom Thomson wrote: you mean logging in having a intel network that tells you a hostels is coming from 40 jumps away the station only you guys can dock in the best rats in the game the best rocks in the game the best moons in the game...... but yet when you null pricks get bored the first thing you do is come up and suicide gank indy and mission runners. and ***** cause you are so hard done by with all your supers and tech moons.
worthless highseccers often compare the risk that a nullsec miner faces when he and hundreds of his friends expend constant effort to reduce their risks, to their risk when they are afk mining without taking any steps to reduce their risk whatsoever
given any amount of effort you are always, always, always far safer in highsec than in nullsec. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 17:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: ok then, let's stick to reality: - in contrast to hisec, sov holding alliances are already organized to provide intel on any intruder, who could possibly disrupt a mining operation. - in contrast to hisec, non-blue locals are very few and very far between in deep sov 0.0. - the same as in hisec, any new local can be on his way to disrupt the mining, but in contrast to hisec, you rarely see one, so you have a much smaller frequency of false positive threat assessments.
any argument about protecting your space, locked in assets etc. is inherently invalid when applied to the supposed profitability of mining, as obviously, the space you hold is already valuable enough to hold with or without mining, so there is no reason to provide any extra value to it (especially considering the stance of GSF towards mining displayed in this thread).
"if you put huge amounts of effort into being safer, you can be safer than if I do absolutely nothing to protect myself and indeed play like i'm roleplaying a bot"
we are able, through effort, to make ourselves safer. that amount of effort in highsec would make us much safer than we are now. there is no sense in which null is safer than highsec, your argument is merely that a higher caliber of player exists in nullsec: but these overmen would be a higher caliber anywhere Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 17:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:The main reasoning for it appears to be to appease the nullsec community which it largely fails to do as it drops a spanner in the works of their industrial capability. all the other errors in your post have already been corrected earlier in the thread, but I wish to note for the record everyone who understands nullsec industry recognizes that this is a long-needed improvement and many have posted to that effect in this thread (such as myself)
please do not try to make bad arguments speaking for other people Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 18:24:00 -
[69] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:You bring up some good points.
1.) Don't get me started on the imbalances of the Sov system. Ill admit that the current system makes it very risky for small entities holding sov, which is why nullsec production will generally be found in the "Safer" homes of larger coalition entities. From such positions, the risk of loss is pretty much identical to that of a lowsec producer. Stop the propaganda and be honestly, unless you are in a small alliance/coalition, this is a very small risk your BPO's get locked up in a station.
2.) I did not realize the nullsec Minmatar stations only have 5 MFG lines. Even upgraded, you aren't going to have too many MFG lines. This is a legitimate reason to boost Minmatar station refining. To be honest though, minmatar stations are primarily built FOR their refining potential. It makes sense they should refine better than other stations, I just don't know where that level should be. They are regularly upgraded to Tier 1 stations, and I firmly believe that the POS Intensive refinery should refine better than the Tier 1 Minmatar Outpost. I like the 54% POS, 53% Tier1 Minmatar balance, and would recommend reducing the efficiency of "Other" outposts rather than increasing the efficiency of the Minmatar ones.
1) The largest alliance (at the time) got butchered like a hog only a few months ago. Nothing in 0.0 is guearanteed: while GSF is relatively secure for the moment, it also was relatively secure when it was an ally of the old Northern Coilition (which collapsed) and our capital was sieged, and it was relatively secure in its old incarnation as Goonswarm when it collapsed completely in a light wind. Just because we've put a great deal of effort into securing ourselves doesn't make us invulnerable - nor does it justify nerfing sov 0.0, which requires far more effort and requires placing far more at risk to enter or hold than lowsec. A sov 0.0 capital producer is far more at risk than a lowsec producer who is never at risk. You'd think the BPOs would be safe and only the minerals/caps would be at risk, but well IRC managed to lose all theirs once.
2) There is no justification for a system that must be built at great expense (and risk, the egg can die), paid for, defended, and that can be lost to be inferior to any npc outpost. There is no justification for a lowseccer to have a station that is strictly better than an outpost. Yes, lowsec will no longer have its absolute superiority over sov null (which has never had a 100% refinery with meaningful amounts of slots). Anyone with an outpost in 0.0 will be able to equal a lowsec producer. They will have the option of spending huge amounts of money and take on greater risk to outcompete (and anyone using those 60% refineries will be building in a pos, at vast risk compared to a station where your build can't die, or moving uncompressed minerals to another station, a huge expense and risk lowsec doesn't need to do).
You're asking that your risk-free effort-free station outcompete sov 0.0. Thats nuts. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6725
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 18:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: you are already investing this effort, with or without mining. if the space you hold is not worth it without mining, either start ******* mining or abandon 0.0 and join fw. seeing as you are unwilling to do either, the effort is probably worth it and the intel network can be considered free, as far as mining ops go. the same amount of effort would be highly inefficient (or even impossible) in highsec and would have exactly 0 benefit beyond safer mining. again, reality, not *what if we were idiots who didn't know how to intel*.
correct, we should be properly rewarded for the amount of effort we put in that we put in the effort does not make the effort free and does not entitle a lazy highseccer roleplaying a bot to anywhere close to the same level of reward: to the extent it does the game needs fixing Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6725
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 18:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: again, from first hand experience i can assure you that the new order will take on anyone it wants and the amount of tank is much less relevant than you seem to believe. 'tank your ship' is just as much a straw man as nullsec mining 'effort'.
tanking your ship is no excuse to go afk. it does, however, mean that while you are having your computer legally bot for you, it takes many people to take you down. but there should never be a situation you are free of risk while you are legally botting Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 19:23:00 -
[72] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Would something like this be reasonable in your estimate?
Non-Minnie Outpost: 50, 52, 54, 57 Minnie Outpost: 52 (best a highseccer can get), 54 (Best a POS can get), 57, 60.
Yeah, that's completely reasonable. Honestly the unupgraded minmatar thing isn't a huge deal since everyone always slapped a tier1 upgrade on it anyway (to get to 100%). Your method also cuts down on the possible refine levels which is nice. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 19:41:00 -
[73] - Quote
Mylea Chanlin wrote: I'm generally ok with reprocessing being better in low/null. But 40% better? That's a bad mechanic. Low and null already have better minerals, better rats, better missions, and PvP T2 salvage. We don't need to make high sec yet another 40% disadvantaged. It's overkill and unnecessary.
It's not 40% better. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 19:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
Again, something I've posted many times before: everyone refines scrap metal exactly the same. Outpost upgrades do not increase scrap metal refining rates. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 19:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
you can't read, and that doesn't mean what you think it means
a minmatar t3 station is 20% better than a highsec 50% station. the math is stupidly easy: minmatar t3 is 60%, highsec is 50%, null has a 20% advantage
you can do out the math of the formulas but you'll find i'm correct Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 19:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
here is the actual table for comparing highsec to nullsec, in three different formats so you can pick whichever you choose:
http://i.imgur.com/jfbpBm7.png
reminder: this is only for ore. everything scrapmetal is 50% base, 55% with skills, period (except 30% highsec refineries) Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 19:52:00 -
[77] - Quote
no change should affect even the most trivial, stupid of professions in any way, apparently
people can't come up with new ways to make money, they're too set in their ways and can't afford job retraining :ohdear: Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 19:53:00 -
[78] - Quote
also why are people going to the mat for what they admit is a thankless boring profession
sounds like the ideal profession to eliminate as a byproduct of changes Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 19:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: and if I don't want to do FW to generate isk?
that sounds like your problem, not an imbalance Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 20:00:00 -
[80] - Quote
Mylea Chanlin wrote:Weaselior wrote:here is the actual table for comparing highsec to nullsec, in three different formats so you can pick whichever you choose: http://i.imgur.com/jfbpBm7.pngreminder: this is only for ore. everything scrapmetal is 50% base, 55% with skills, period (except 30% highsec refineries) Thank you for confirming my very point. The 30% stations are in high sec. The 50-55% corresponds to low and null outposts. And guess what? It's 30-40%. Ah,if you want to get nitpicky, its high-20s to high 30s, but who cares? It's too much. highsec has 50% refineries you idiot
jita 4-4, a station you may have heard of, is 50%
highsec happens to have 30% ones but nobody uses them because 50%s exist usually in the same system Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 20:02:00 -
[81] - Quote
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Jita
every single jita station is a 50% refinery
how dumb do you have to be to opine in a thread on reprocessing without even knowing the base highsec refine rate Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 20:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
Mylea Chanlin wrote: Saying something to the effect of: "It isn't a nerf to your profession because you can do another profession" isn't a valid rebuttal.
This isn't about Pro Synergy anyway. It's about an severe nerf to an entire profession as an unintentional side-effect of efforts to fix something else entirely. Hell, salvaging is presented as a career option in the tutorial missions. Did CCP forget that?
i should think that a change that pushes people pick a different profession when their most fervent champions admit their profession is boring unfun garbage would be exactly the sort of rebuttal that works when discussing making a game better Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6726
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 20:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
I should also think that someone who thought highsec refined at 30% would bow out of a discussion on reprocessing in shame, rather than claim to be some pro reprocessor who didn't even know highsec had 50% refineries Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6727
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 20:45:00 -
[84] - Quote
Orion Satar wrote:One thing that I didn't see getting mentioned regarding the reprocessing arrays. Will we be able to overfill the arrays by reprocesing?
From what I've seen, after the patch, the reprocessing arrays will have 2,000,000m3 of cargo space. Compressed Veldspar, for example, will have a volume of 257m3 and contain 690,500 units of Tritanium (6905 m3). With the intensive array, I'll get ~78% yield on that so 538,590 units or 5385.9m3. This means a full array with 7,782 blocks of compressed veldspar (1,999,974m3) will reprocess to 4,191,307,380 units of trit, or over 40 million m3.
You're able to overflow any other array, don't see why they'd special-case this. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6728
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 20:46:00 -
[85] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:You are only limited by what you are afraid to lose. My Battleship is just as vulnerable to a gank in HS or LS mission as you are in NS. nope Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6728
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 20:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Concord doesn't give me any safety, they dish out punishment for people who break the law. Are you unsure how the system works?
wrong
concord, through its timer, is a protection mechanism: given my ehp, i am absolutely invulnerable to ganks with dps lower than is required to kill me within that time
any ganker would have known that, and known that concord protects victims and gives them a level of safety. it's just not perfect safety, but your posting indicates you have trouble grasping the distinction between more safe and less safe and can only really grasp "can die" and "cannot die" Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6728
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 21:15:00 -
[87] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:If you have 20 people in local then your interceptor friend isn't going to readily combat you unless he has 20 friends sitting on the other side of a gate, or on the ass end of a cyno. Which you should be able to have intel on, and if you don't you need better friends.
Justifying nerfs based on cowardice and unwillingness for a group of people to exploit what they have is pathetic. sounds like you just hit upon yet another inherent protection in highsec: no cynos Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6729
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 21:16:00 -
[88] - Quote
Querns wrote:You have to be deliberately obtuse to think that highsec is less safe than nullsec. ding ding ding Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6729
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 21:18:00 -
[89] - Quote
i appreciate that mario putzo is here to demonstrate the type of thinking about the game you need to oppose this change Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6729
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 21:23:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Weaselior wrote:i appreciate that mario putzo is here to demonstrate the type of thinking about the game you need to oppose this change Well maybe if coward coalition spent more time running mining opps and not forum CTA's then there wouldn't need to be a change. maybe if everyone acted stupidly then we would never need to rebalance anything ever Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6729
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 21:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
it is true, an eve full of mario putzos would not need balancing because nobody would be able to figure out what the best thing was and do that Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6730
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 21:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Unrequired, I can see how much mining goes on in nullsec as I romp around your coalition space plexing in my mach laughing at how pathetic your arguments about HS being superior are. Thanks for the isk brosef.
i think we can all agree that in your reality anything could be true, even you actually being right
but let's get back to actual reality instead of your dreamworld Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6731
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 21:57:00 -
[93] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:You are digging yourself even deeper which is why you tried to recover by the post immediately after this, that was funny, and yet you are most likely thinking you won that. my friend i have read your posts and there is no finer example of someone thinking they're clever while looking dumb Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6731
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 22:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Thats because they are to cowardly to take ships that can make bank out into space. After all if people are going to awox mining barges, what will they do to a 2B Mach.
you have an impressive schitzoform disorder and appear to just mix phrases together and hope they come up with a coherent thought but no, people don't rat in **** trusec because you don't make bank there, you make "bank" in high-trusec systems where you spawn good anoms
you have failed yet again to comprehend how anything works at all Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6731
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 22:15:00 -
[95] - Quote
the reason that people don't rat in -0.01 trusec in mario putzo's mind is apparently they don't realize they'll make bank undocking a ship there
not that it wouldn't be worth it ever because the anoms are **** Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6731
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 22:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
Kazanir wrote: No, you didn't understand my post. I am saying that there is plenty of ratting in the parts of those regions where the TRUE SECURITY of the space justifies it. Do you know what truesec is?
i'm going to save you a lot of time and tell you with 100% certainty that he does not Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6731
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 22:22:00 -
[97] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Wait so only Deklein matters in a discussion on why 0.0 needs to have its mineral procurement buffed, and why lowsec and highsec are seeing arbitrary changes to mineral procurement.
Well lati da. look at that. It is a Goon problem afterall. Who cares about the rest of EVEs regions as long as Deklein is making bank.
we're not discussing the change right now, we are discussing your incoherent babble
what is relevant to the change and what is relevant to mario putzo's house of crazy are two very different things Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6731
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 22:22:00 -
[98] - Quote
i will admit however you are utterly immune to mind tricks Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6750
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:48:00 -
[99] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:And as an added benefit it becomes very lucrative to ship stuff to null to refine, then ship it right back to jita to sell. Goons for arbitrage, anyone? fuel ain't free
nothing in highsec would be worth doing that, except in certain border stations with a freighter (and in those, drag bubble the freighter for some hilarious kills) Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6772
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 23:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
I think that compression has to be moved into station, and here is why: http://www.firvain.org/ss/20140324134105689.png
What you're looking at is a calculation of approximately one jump freighter full of compressed minerals: a decent amount, but not a huge amount of minerals: sufficient to build a good number of battleships or the like or do an initial seed of the market. Nothing crazy though: you certainly couldn't build a titan with that.
That one jump freighter of minerals requires forty eight round trips in a freighter (at least, I just eyeballed it) to get the ore to a pos for compression. That's insane: that's an obscene amount of work even if all the ore is already located in the system itself. It's far, far more than you need right now (as the ore is bulkier than the minerals you'd haul before to compress).
That's a ludicrous amount of insanely boring grunt work - that you can't even pay someone else to courier because it has to go to a pos. It doesn't add any content for anyone else: a freighter warping to and from a station is invulnerable as long as they can be bothered to dock up if someone tries to agress their freighter. It just adds a lot of unneeded human misery to the game that can't be fun for anyone.
I think there's value in maintaining pos as a possibility (or even an improvement): let people compress with the bpos in station, requiring them to waste slots on their alts and in the station, and making it take time. That will encourage people to use a pos (or put one into their routine, unloading into the pos instead of a station) but allows people to work with ore that someone's put on the market in a way that isn't pointlessly cruel to the poor sucker who does forty eight round trips in a charon and pretends he's having fun in a video game. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6778
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:48:00 -
[101] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Market, contracts, whatever. The stuff in the outpost isn't lost, though it may be difficult to access. You can just conquer the outpost back and pick up where you left off. The same is not true for a POS: once it's blown up, it's gone. this is one of the dumber posts in this thread and that's saying something
the absolutely massive amount of effort it takes to conquer an outpost make this much, much stupider than saying "just remine the minerals you lost in the pos" Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6778
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 16:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
Inspiration wrote: One of the purposes of these changes is to get away from the 'lame' un-eve like game play surrounding refining and recycling. More of industry needed to be part of the sandbox and exposed to possibly explosive player to player interaction.
And it fails. A freighter going to a pos from a station and back, in highsec, is invulnerable. That's why this should be a station activity: because putting it in a pos adds a gigantic amount of human misery that has no benefit. You can't gank the freighter because he just docks up if he's agressed. You can't drag bubble or anything in highsec that would let you catch someone freightering. You can't blow up the pos for profit because compression is instant: the freighter just mashes it then returns with the compressed ore.
I am all for situations that create more possibility for human interaction. POS compression does not. It just adds pointless busywork that does not create more human interaction. It can't even create human interaction by subcontracting: you must do it yourself because you can't subcontract hauling to a POS.
All of this was explained in my post. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6778
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 17:27:00 -
[103] - Quote
Inspiration wrote: Mobile compression will be mostly a tool for miners to lower their hauling sores and make it more practical to operate in further away systems. It is clearly not meant for the current compression specialist which buy refined minerals in bulk, compresses them and put them back on market with a markup using a clearly broken game mechanic. Some will do this, but work with relative low volumes. Sourced from beginner systems with few stations.
Compression at a POS is going is remove more dull activities then it will create. And any less PvP exposure as we have now, is clearly impossible, thus i fail to see your augment there. We can disagree how much PVP interaction it will introduce, but i can assure you it will be more then having compression at stations, which clearly is replacing one broken mechanic for yet another.
Any miners moving too much compressed ore in a freighter will certainly have their chance to feel PvP consequences.
Your argument makes zero sense. Sure, many large-scale miners will simply integrate compression into their routine. That's not what I'm discussing.
The rest of what you're saying is nonsense ("It is clearly not meant for the current compression specialist which buy refined minerals in bulk, compresses them and put them back on market with a markup using a clearly broken game mechanic."). Compression may not have been originally intended, but the devblog is quite clear it has been accepted as a desired activity and mechanism and is being deliberately preserved - just changed - hence targeting the exact current compression rate. Your dislike of current compression is noted, and irrelevant. We can safely discard all of your arguments that flow from that and your nonsense about 'broken mechanics'. You don't make massive changes deliberately designed to preserve broken mechanics.
Compression in station compared to POS have the same PvP exposure - zero - for the addition of mountains of pointless unfun busywork that you're studiously ignoring. Nobody wants to try to gank the freighter full of uncompressed veldspar leaving the station that can just dock up. It is pointless unfun busywork where someone engages in a mindless riskless behavior that creates no content for anyone. Accordingly, it should be eliminated.
Compression in a station does not make a miner moving compressed ore from that station anywhere else the least bit safer. He'll be compressing in his home system and moving it to jita. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6778
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 17:29:00 -
[104] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:The refining upgrade alone is worth more than 200 large pos's.. lol wut? Do you have any idea how much a Large POS costs? http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=12235That's 254M each. At your purported price, the implant would cost 50.8B isk, or about as much as a supercarrier or AT first prize ship. . he's talking the outpost upgrade not the impant dude which makes him correct, a fully upgraded minmatar t3 outpost costs about 60b to deploy and upgrade Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6779
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:39:00 -
[105] - Quote
Inspiration wrote: 1. NPC compression is bot heaven!
yeah bots will never be able to outcompete human beings in the complex task of warping a freighter to a pos a bazillion times Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6800
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:27:00 -
[106] - Quote
Alexia Marhx wrote: First of all, like I wrote earlier, low sec, and especially null sec, are literally BATTLEFIELDS. High end facilities are very unlikely to be developed in such conditions. Workforce there would be terribly expensive, if any would volunteer. That is why high-tech industries tend to prosper in stable environment. Would you build a computer factory in todayGÇÖs Syria or Baghdad, or in the US, UK, etc...?
who cares
literally why should anyone balance a game around your idea of what is ~realistic~ in a spaceship game featuring faster than light travel and spaceflight that more resembles submarine warfare than actual space travel Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6811
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
your entire multi-foot post can be summed up as "i disagree with station compressing because it will reduce the use of pos compressing"
that is the point: pos compressing is just too awful to be used as a routine matter due to the absurd number of freighter round-trips it requires to compress ore
if the pos compressor can be made better great, otherwise it should be an additional option for station-free systems that offers people a new choice instead of being "the proper way to compress"
nothing you say actually addresses the mind-numbing tedium of gankproof roundtrip ore hauling Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6811
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:13:00 -
[108] - Quote
a necessary mini-industry founded on human misery is a bad mini-industry to add to the game basically Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6812
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 23:07:00 -
[109] - Quote
Yeah, there's no way that an industry that is literally just flying a freighter in risk-free round trips doesn't get botted to hell and back immediately because the amount of human beings broke inside enough to do that for fun does not come close to meeting the demand. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:23:00 -
[110] - Quote
Inspiration wrote:I like that it can be taken out, the pvp element is certainly there. But there are ways around it botters will exploit. They can sit at a station undock of a quiet system and simply dock up as soon as anything is on grid. a botting compression pos is 100% safe
Inspiration wrote: These arguments I have already debunked in lengthy posts...go back and read again. Your feature will not do what you claim it does, it only creates loopholes to be exploited and even hurt the players you champion in your posts, the most.
It is sickening really, you should go into politics.
you haven't debunked anything, you've just repeated bad arguments over and over again and demonstrated fundamental misunderstandings of how the game works and good game design Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:31:00 -
[111] - Quote
really, you have to have a completely fundamentally absurd idea of what risk in eve is to think that a highsec pos that never holds anything of value whatsoever is at risk to anyone, short of you pissing off someone so badly they'll waste hours of their time to cost you pennies
in no situation will your compression pos ever be at risk. in no situation will your freighter going to and from your compression pos ever be at risk. you have to imagine an insane sequence of incredibly stupid events to even have the slightest risk your 100m small pos is killed. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:33:00 -
[112] - Quote
let me put it this way: i wouldn't even bother finding and killing your compression pos once this went up and we delight in making people suffer in-game for their terrible posting
i would not bother because it would be trivial to evade and you would not suffer any real loss even if I managed to kill it, i would merely be trolling myself by trying Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:07:00 -
[113] - Quote
Inspiration wrote: You are not reading, just a mere few posts ago i demonstrated using current game mechanics it is not safe. It can be taken out, you cannot simply retract it and get away with it if the enemy party is prepared for that. Disputing that is just a hollow claim, repeating lies does not make it truth.
i addressed that
the idea anyone, ever, would reinforce a small compression pos and that having one is a risk in highsec is so stupid we can dismiss your arguments outright for the reasons i stated
i am a being of virtually pure spite and i wouldn't bother Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:47:00 -
[114] - Quote
Inspiration wrote: The reason to bring up POS / corporation was to have the user of compression facilities have exposure to PvP. Only corporation members can use the facility and being in a war, pretty much excludes use...if they reinforce it or not! For all we know, they are just interested in the moon, then it becomes a conflict driver.
There is more to EVE then thousand man alliances vs thousand man alliance. You seem to have forgotten this and are not doing anyone a favor with it.
the user of the compression facilities has absolutely no exposure to pvp whatsoever
they use the pos while they have no wardecs, then if wardecced they empty it out and dock up and the attacker gets the joy of shooting a pos twice for absolutely no gain: something they would do only if the owner had pissed them off so much they were willing to waste an inordinate amount of time
that is if the pos owner is too lazy to scoop the pos before the dec goes live
basically there is no exposure to pvp whatsoever, no pvp content is created, and you continue to be unable to grasp how the game works Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
EXCITING PVP CONTENT:
freighter warps from docking ring (effectively invulnerable) to inside pos (invulnerable)
dumps ore into compressor, hits compress, takes ore back, warps to docking ring (effectively invulnerable)
repeat a million times
OH NO A WARDEC
well the pos is completely empty: just unanchor the compression module and empty out the pos and put it in the station. depending on how frisky you want to be, dickstar the tower, pull it, or just leave it as a bare stick
whoever wardecced you gets nothing interesting out of this whatsoever and you have been incredibly minorly inconvinenced. you can just hop to your backup corp or just wait out the wardec.
THIS HAS BEEN EXCITING PVP CONTENT, BROUGHT TO YOU BY INSPIRATION Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:57:00 -
[116] - Quote
the mining is not affected one bit, that is another one of inspiration's nutjob ideas that have no relationship to reality Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:58:00 -
[117] - Quote
a moon in highsec, an incredibly common thing that anyone can get with much greater ease than bothering a mining corporation, has become available
EXCITING PVP CONTENT Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:00:00 -
[118] - Quote
Inspiration wrote: Unless you also care to defend it, it is just more valuable target. Counter party deploys 20 Dominix, with sentries (which do not get targeted by the pos) and go watch a movie for a couple of hours. They don't need locks to hit your POS and hit it well.
going afk in 4b worth of ships to shoot a pos afk for hours and hours because the target has become "more valuble" thanks to the addition of 30m in mods
BRILLIANT ECONOMIC THINKING AND EXCITING PVP CONTENT BROUGHT TO YOU BY INSPIRATION Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6820
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:03:00 -
[119] - Quote
part of the genius of a dickstar is ecm mods are hilariously high hp so if you start shooting them boy are you going to be there a long time
and if you bother to be at the dickstar you'd just online a few guns and start blasting dominixes out of the sky, or make a smartbomb run at them to kill off all the drones, warp out, then gun them all down personally (afk dominixes can't tackle) Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7046
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 13:10:00 -
[120] - Quote
Querns wrote:Regarding unification of compressed ore types, you could also do it in the opposite direction.
E.g.: (numbers are not based on reality since I can't remember the actual numbers and am too lazy to look it up) 100 veldspar = 1 compressed veldspar 95 concentrated veldspar = 1 compressed veldspar 90 dense veldspar = 1 compressed veldspar
This is a good idea, and if the math makes it feasible, I'd like to see it happen. oh god please do this Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7046
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 13:13:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Small update!
After sacrificing many Devs to the dark development gods, we are now able to confirm we will have reprocessing skills affect Starbase Reprocessing Arrays - if not for the Summer release, shortly after. thats awesome, thanks! Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7048
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 14:37:00 -
[122] - Quote
mkint wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Small update!
After sacrificing many Devs to the dark development gods, we are now able to confirm we will have reprocessing skills affect Starbase Reprocessing Arrays - if not for the Summer release, shortly after. So... an even bigger nerf to those people who hoped to at least break even from this fiasco? the lazy and unskilled?
that, uh, sounds like exactly the sort of group that should get nerfed Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7048
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 15:27:00 -
[123] - Quote
mkint wrote:You know what bull crap smells like? That comment. Let's see the numbers that prove that the average nullbear works any harder than the average guy trying to find a niche for him and maybe his small corp. The guy who decides to build his own little mini-empire in opposition to the "oh, just join one of the herd alliances" mentality is sooo much lazier. Hey, be louder. Maybe it'll make you sound a little less wrong. Or not. the "average nullbear" also has his skills matter and would have had a (better) skill-free pos refinery he is also losing you nutbar
pos refineries not using skills benefited only the lazy and the unskilled compared to the people who trained the skills, not highsec compared to null Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7048
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 15:41:00 -
[124] - Quote
mkint wrote: Rewind a little bit. How does "lazy" come into the picture? Are you telling me that sitting-on-ass waiting for a skill to finish is hard work?
Ah, so lazy is grinding up the isk for your own tower when you have nothing, paying fuel when you have nothing, working out the math to scratch out a slim profit. And hard work is waiting for your alliance to buy you an outpost. Now I understand. Thank you sooo much for the enlightenment oh wise one.
you've been given months to train the skills, so yes being unable to muster up the strength to click on them is pretty goddamned lazy
you keep trying to paint this as a ~highsec vs nullsec~ thing. it's not. it's people who can be bothered to train the skills vs those who can't. you can't be bothered, you don't deserve the rewards someone who does gets
this is more a buff to highsec than nullsec: highsec has a small list of low-rank skills they have to train, null has to train them all (and the ones for null ores are high-rank so they take much longer). i already trained all the highsec ore skills, but the lowsec + null ones are going to take me months
you're just trying to wrap your "i don't want to train skills" laziness in a ~down with nullsec~ cloak but i doubt you're going to fool anyone but dinsdale (and even he might see through it) Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7049
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:30:00 -
[125] - Quote
mkint wrote: Full disclosure? I'm not a miner. I'm so bored with skill training, that I've already had my refining skills done long long ago. My stake? I'm tired of gameplay in EVE being a dead end. It boils down to "go null or gtfo". And this industrial expansion that was was promised years ago with Quantum Rise was asked for by the small operation industrialist? Now that all those people who wanted it so bad back then have long since quit, the decision is to take away the parts of industry that at least somewhat worked and straight up give it to nullbears. Not just nullsec dwellers, but full blown risk-averse, money-grubbing, herd-mentality nullbears. And why? Who the hell knows. Either dev incompetence or corruption. And when they left a little back door to make life suck just a little bit less for everyone who doesn't wait for daddy to buy them an outpost? Slam that crap shut!
it is being given to me, my friends, and our enemies who have survived the brutal darwinian struggle in 0.0
such is life that the strong outcompete the weak, you have made a fine dinner despite being an evolutionary dead-end
none of that, of course, has anything to do with your current whining which is about pos refineries needing skills, a thing utterly unconnected to the overmen outcompeting the lower animals Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7050
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:45:00 -
[126] - Quote
mkint wrote:Topic being the reprocessing mess, yes, the POS change is EXACTLY about limiting the ability to compete. limiting the ability of the unskilled and lazy to compete with those who train the skills, yes
which begs the question why you keep ranting about nullsec Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7050
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 16:55:00 -
[127] - Quote
mkint wrote: Why do you keep ranting about "laziness"? SP =/= effort. time =/= effort. I keep going off on nullsec because that's EXACTLY what the POS change is about. readingcomprehensionfail.
the pos change has nothing to do with nullsec you nutbar, i know you think it does but again, nutbar
in highsec, before this pos change, skills were irrelevant: those who chose to skill up and become better refiners were no better than those who did not, because the right answer was always a skill-free pos refinery
now, those highsec refiners can outcompete those who are too lazy to train the skills: a win for highsec because there is greater differentiation and more varied gameplay in highsec and they have lost nothing in relationship to null
edit: whoops, wrong word in there Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7050
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:02:00 -
[128] - Quote
just screaming "don't believe those goons" when you can't actually knock down the argument is the last refuge of the fools with strong opinions who don't actually know anything about what they're talking about Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7050
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:11:00 -
[129] - Quote
mkint wrote:Weaselior wrote:just screaming "don't believe those goons" when you can't actually knock down the argument is the last refuge of the fools with strong opinions who don't actually know anything about what they're talking about Ignoring all points of argument and repeating "lazy and unskilled" verbatim doesn't demonstrate any mastery of the point of discussion either. You're a politician trying to sell a pork barrel project. Nothing more. mate, you've not had an argument, just a rant
nullsec had a 16% edge over highsec pos refineries before this change. it has a 16% edge over highsec pos refineries after this change. your response to this blindingly obvious bit of information has been ranting, screams that goons are lying, and...
well that's it
i get it, people have emotions about things they're not quite capable of understanding all the time and i'm sympathetic to that it's got to be frustrating to you that you have a feeling that doesn't match reality but the fact of the matter is you're wrong and only getting wronger and it's reality that matters here
this change is a good change because it makes refining skills matter everywhere, it's purely a buff to those who train skills to excel at a profession and a nerf to those who are too lazy to do so: and both groups exist in all bands of security space Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7050
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:21:00 -
[130] - Quote
mkint wrote: When argument fails, result to impugning character. I have no horse in this race. This isn't about my own margins. It's about a systemic disparity favoring those who already have power, much of it given to them with no effort on their own part. This is about the devs clearly favoring not just a playstyle, but specific groups of people. This is not the first time. Why don't you just embrace the truth? CCP already has.
your nonstop ranting suggests otherwise
this disparity favors those who train skills to excel in a profession over those who are too lazy to do so
when i hop in a battleship that i have trained only to the bare minimum to use along with its weapons, i do not expect, nor should i, to match those who bothered to train the skills for that battleship. if i choose to rat in it anyway i will pay a price for my laziness and lack of skill through dying more often and taking longer to kill things
so too now will highsec refiners who are too lazy to train refining skills get outcompeted by highsec refiners who choose to specialize in that
the skills take only a short time to train and do not require "power" and are not a "specific group of people" beyond just "those who are able to understand and adapt to a change instead of throwing a hissy fit, throwing their toys off the pram, and stomping home to mommy" Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7050
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:32:00 -
[131] - Quote
mkint wrote: Given a choice, I'd rather sit-on-ass and train some skills than go through the hassle of setting up a POS. Especially if the highsec POS restrictions weren't going to change. It's not about effort or laziness. That's not even a part of the equation. In this very damned thread, the original dev quote was along the lines of "oh, well, we want some way that other people who put in a ton of work (re setting up and maintaining a highsec POS) can get the same yields." Well, at least until nullbears whined.
you need the skills AND the pos to get 52%
previously you would get 52% with the pos regardless of skills, or 50% with max skills and no pos
now you get 52% in a pos (modified by skills) or 50% in a station (modified by skills)
you still get a reward for the pos: the reward is just the extra refine not the complete lack of skills being required
the original devblog was just covering for "oh god making a pos refinery require skills is a lot of work lets try to avoid touching that awful code"
like i am struggling to figure out what has short-circuted in your brain here because you clearly don't understand anything that's going on, but in a unique and unusual way
Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7050
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 17:46:00 -
[132] - Quote
mkint wrote:Querns wrote:Furthermore, I guess I don't get the whole "this was some sort of equalizer in the eternal war of highsec vs. nullsec." You do realize that I can erect a POS in nullsec, right? In fact, if I do so, I would have had access to a superior refinery installation in the 54% efficiency pos module, and would have been able to maximize my refines against this number without skills taking it into account. Your apoplexy is just strangely founded and I wonder what led you to these conclusions. Because nullbear babies just can't stand not having an advantage in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF THE GAME. Yes, you could have put up your POS refineries, but then you'd have had to pay fuel plus shipping costs, where shipping costs might have made it worth tipping the balance. yo can you elaborate the vast gap between:
1) highsec pos will now use skills for refining but maintain the same refining rate with max skills
*space missing*
3) NULLSEC IS BENEFITING FROM THIS
like that's why you're being treated like a nutbar, there is no conceivable step 2 Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7054
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 18:23:00 -
[133] - Quote
mkint wrote:Because you're hoping everyone would forget this, which was graciously linked just a couple posts ago. you were too witless to realize that was being linked to prove you were wrong you nitwit
the dev said there was a "huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained"
the dev did not say ""oh, well, we want some way that other people who put in a ton of work (re setting up and maintaining a highsec POS) can get the same yields."
it is saying how people should act in the system not why the system is the way it is
furthermore it has nothing, whatsoever, to do with nullsec
like seriously you actually seem mentally ill Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7065
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 14:11:00 -
[134] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:Weaselior wrote: nullsec had a 16% edge over highsec pos refineries before this change. it has a 16% edge over highsec pos refineries after this change.
I get the part about null sec having an advantage after the summer expansion. But I don't get the part about null sec having any advantage today. In null sec today, I need an implant along with the ore-specific reprocessing skill trained to 4 in order to get the same refining I can get (with 6.67 NPC standing) in high sec without an implant. I meant for the summer: contrary to mkints ludicrous ramblings the advantage nullsec gets in the summer is exactly the same if pos use skills or not. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7143
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 15:53:00 -
[135] - Quote
Capsuler Rhea wrote: Nulsec is for people with something to prove, I personally don't want to be a part of that and I don't need to prove anything, I'm fine wasting my time on missions and NPC corp chat, I'm fine with the changes pertaining to refining, you need to max the training in order to maximize refining output, but giving reprocessing modules a huge nerf and giving, AGAIN, nulsec more advantages, my question is why? Isn't better moons, better asteroids, better PI, better DED sites, better signatures, higher bounty rats not enough? Almost 5 years of running missions and I'm still broke, and CCP is still going to nerf that. With the playstyle I've chosen, I can't even sustain PLEX'ing my toon thus I have a recurring subscription.
have you considered that if you've been running missions for five years and you're broke you're probably doing a whole lot of things wrong Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7148
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 16:38:00 -
[136] - Quote
Capsuler Rhea wrote: To reiterate, that's the play style I chose, sandbox is defined as such, you can do everything you want, no? Now, in terms of doing something wrong, perhaps, I almost always log everyday, but I only do a few missions a day on average. I don't do missions for LP, I don't do missions as fast as I can. I experiment on ships, and having more than 43 million sp on ships alone and without 1 sp on capital ships suggests that I fly almost every subcap. I haven't lost a ship in L3s nor L4s, and I only lost 1 in an L2 roughly 4 years back that i attributed to a freak lag spike.
So, tell me, am I doing things wrong? aside from the play style I choose, that is...
well you've got scads of ways to get more profiability out of running the missions you're running, you just don't take advantage of them
you're basically whining that you refuse to attempt to earn more money but that you don't have enough Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7156
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 18:47:00 -
[137] - Quote
Galies wrote:Ok, so what about me Weaselior? I use MTU's, dedicated salvage ships, and all sorts of tricks to maximize my earning potential, but the simple truth is the value of mission running has gone down DRASTICALLY over the years. At one point in time I was able to plex 2 toons a month, just with what I made running missions, and I didn't have to grind them every day. Now, i'll be lucky to be able to plex one toon with what im making. maybe you should get a real job instead of a space job Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7358
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:09:00 -
[138] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:So, I was perusing the alchemy tables when I realized that some of the newer alchemy reactions returned 95/100 of a certain material. Coupled with an 11% bonus in a fully upgraded nulsec refinery, would that not return more material than what was put in?
1 unit of Unrefined Neo Mercurite requires 100 Mercury and 100 Cadmium. Under the old skills and stats, perfectly refining this would return 95 Mercury and 40 Neo Merc. Under the new skills and stats, it will return at least 105 Mercury and 44 Neo Mercurite.
I'm fine with the extra Neo Merc. But creating moon goo out of thin air doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe just cut the 100% returned Mercury to 90 like all the other recipes. Pretty sure its just 7 recipes. refine ipgrades dont affect scrapmetal, just ore Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
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