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Is it possible to get around warp distruption bubbles?

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CyberChick	Posted - 2006.04.30 05:33:00 - [1] If there are two gates A & B - B has a bubble directly in the path of ships warping from A, would warping to an asteroid belt to the side (that is not directly in the path between A and B) of B at 100km work - say for a covert ops to bring a fleet to the side of the bubble....
spiderbaby	Posted - 2006.04.30 05:36:00 - [2] Possibly. It depends on the position of the bubble, the size of the bubble and the position of the point you warp to the gate from. But yes, you can avoid bubbles like this. However any decent gate camp will use 4 or 5 bubbles specifically to prevent this
Beef Nipples	Posted - 2006.04.30 05:54:00 - [3] wcs
BoB Fanboi	Posted - 2006.04.30 06:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Beef Nipples wcs WCS have no effect on warp disruption bubbles. Generally the best strategy is warping in at an odd angle (the planet closest to the bubbled gate is usually a good angle). However, as one of the above posters said, a good gate camp will have the gate sufficiently covered to secure against other angles.
Benglada	Posted - 2006.04.30 06:17:00 - [5] Originally by: CyberChick If there are two gates A & B - B has a bubble directly in the path of ships warping from A, would warping to an asteroid belt to the side (that is not directly in the path between A and B) of B at 100km work - say for a covert ops to bring a fleet to the side of the bubble.... Lol Im assuming you didnt pass 3rd grade math? :S --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Ernest Graefenberg	Posted - 2006.04.30 07:01:00 - [6] Feeling inferior today Benglada? Its a perfectly valid question about the geometry involved. Anyway, going by experience the angle needs to be sufficiently off, but you can definitely avoid being sucked into anything that does not cover the gate directly. If you absolutely have to do it in some low budget way, either use an observator to get an offplane SS and warp-approach from there until you're at a really odd approach point from the gate or more conveniently just warp within 0.33 AU of the target gate (really carefully), relog, bookmark and then have your cloaker setup a warpin. Realize however that an interdictor can both cover the gate perfectly and follow you through should you make it regardless. You can however initiate warp while the bubble is down if you're feeling really, really gutsy.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.30 07:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: CyberChick If there are two gates A & B - B has a bubble directly in the path of ships warping from A, would warping to an asteroid belt to the side (that is not directly in the path between A and B) of B at 100km work - say for a covert ops to bring a fleet to the side of the bubble.... Lol Im assuming you didnt pass 3rd grade math? :S This is not to do with geometry but game mechanics. You would do well to drop that mocking attitude, it won't make you any friends worth having. It is said that warping to an end-point anywhere on the same grid as a bubble causes you to be pulled into the bubble. I am not sure of this but I have definitely experienced times when I have hit a bubble on the far side of the gate rather than in front of it, which shows that perhaps it is true. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2006.04.30 07:17:00 - [8] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 30/04/2006 07:22:04 Originally by: Benglada Originally by: CyberChick If there are two gates A & B - B has a bubble directly in the path of ships warping from A, would warping to an asteroid belt to the side (that is not directly in the path between A and B) of B at 100km work - say for a covert ops to bring a fleet to the side of the bubble.... Lol Im assuming you didnt pass 3rd grade math? :S Uhm, you know that a bubble in direct line with two gates, but 15 km BEHIND the gate, sucks most people into the bubble, who come from the other gate ? And that a warp to 100km to a gate doesn't prevent you from landing inside a bubble that's right at the gate ? To me its still a mystery, when exactly I'm in danger to get sucked into a bubble at the gate and when warping to a bm near the gate is safe. (And I've seen quite a few bubbles since I started with EVE. ) ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Macmuppet	Posted - 2006.04.30 07:40:00 - [9] I warped in to a gate, when the bubble was 30k at the other side of it, and still got sucked in when i warped to gate at 15km Belt im coming from-------------15au-----------------------Gate--30km---Bubble Was in an inty so got out fairly easily, still something wrong there though
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:16:00 - [10] I want a module that makes those bubbles have no effect... But i guess that would create a million threads about it being cowardly to use it. --- Please keep your signatures eve-related and within the rules - Ivan K
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:20:00 - [11] probably like wcs
Lord Slater	Posted - 2006.04.30 12:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Jim McGregor I want a module that makes those bubbles have no effect... But i guess that would create a million threads about it being cowardly to use it. I think bubbles were introduced for 2 reasons. 1. First reason and most important as a way of dealing with WCS'S Till then a apoc with 8 WCS's and a MWD was pretty hard to stop after all unless you had like 9 Warp Jammers for example and a couple of webbers. 2. A good way of Getting people to work in a groupe situation when it comes to gate camps.
CyberChick	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: CyberChick If there are two gates A & B - B has a bubble directly in the path of ships warping from A, would warping to an asteroid belt to the side (that is not directly in the path between A and B) of B at 100km work - say for a covert ops to bring a fleet to the side of the bubble.... Lol Im assuming you didnt pass 3rd grade math? :S Thanks for the unwanted response to a serious question Thanks everyone else for the welcome response to a serious question
Auraurious	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:40:00 - [14] You can also make a bookmark a few 100 km below or above the gate. I have never been sucked into a bubble using a sniperspot type bm. _________________________________________________________
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:53:00 - [15] covert ops can work too, if flying at the gate they will never see you arrive. just warp to the gate at greater then 15km while cloaked of course.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.30 18:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker covert ops can work too, if flying at the gate they will never see you arrive. just warp to the gate at greater then 15km while cloaked of course. Doesn't the bubble decloak you? Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Snake Jankins Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker covert ops can work too, if flying at the gate they will never see you arrive. just warp to the gate at greater then 15km while cloaked of course. Doesn't the bubble decloak you? No, same with interdictor spheres, you only decloat if you are within 2 km of a can, ship, drones etc. or maybe the bubble-generator in the center of the bubble itself. Weird, but good to know. Gas clouds will decloak you so I assumed the bubble also would. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:06:00 - [18] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 30/04/2006 19:06:28 Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker covert ops can work too, if flying at the gate they will never see you arrive. just warp to the gate at greater then 15km while cloaked of course. Doesn't the bubble decloak you? No, same with interdictor spheres, you only decloak, if you are within 2 km of a can, ship, drones etc. or maybe the bubble-generator in the center of the bubble itself. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Xtopherus	Posted - 2006.04.30 20:46:00 - [19] Will a bubble stop you from jumping though? I was caught in one the other day while traveling in a shuttle and I tried to make it to the gate. While they got my shuttle my pod made it to the gate but it wouldn't let me jump. Kept clicking jump but it wouldn't do anything. (had auto pilot on also) One thing I did learn though is not to assume they haven't had time to setup a bubble and try and insta past them. The map had not updated yet (showed 1 person in system and there was 7 or 8 no ship kills) so I thought well maybe they haven't had time to bubble up or maybe they are doing something else... I gambled...I lost.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.04.30 21:16:00 - [20] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 30/04/2006 21:17:25 Originally by: Xtopherus Will a bubble stop you from jumping though? I was caught in one the other day while traveling in a shuttle and I tried to make it to the gate. While they got my shuttle my pod made it to the gate but it wouldn't let me jump. Kept clicking jump but it wouldn't do anything. (had auto pilot on also) One thing I did learn though is not to assume they haven't had time to setup a bubble and try and insta past them. The map had not updated yet (showed 1 person in system and there was 7 or 8 no ship kills) so I thought well maybe they haven't had time to bubble up or maybe they are doing something else... I gambled...I lost. Actually i was in the same situation today... i was in a shuttle and tried to warp to a gate that had multiple bubbles. I came out of warp 7 km behind the gate, but i could quickly turn around and use the jumpgate without problems. Maybe its something in the way the bubble is setup that makes jumping work or not work? --- The Eve Wiki Project
Arkani Gera	Posted - 2006.04.30 22:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Xtopherus Will a bubble stop you from jumping though? I was caught in one the other day while traveling in a shuttle and I tried to make it to the gate. While they got my shuttle my pod made it to the gate but it wouldn't let me jump. Kept clicking jump but it wouldn't do anything. (had auto pilot on also) One thing I did learn though is not to assume they haven't had time to setup a bubble and try and insta past them. The map had not updated yet (showed 1 person in system and there was 7 or 8 no ship kills) so I thought well maybe they haven't had time to bubble up or maybe they are doing something else... I gambled...I lost. in this case it was the fact that they killed your shuttle that prevented you from jumping, when you lose a ship you are unable to dock/jump since the session change thingie makes you unable to do anything useful except warping for the next 30-something seconds...now, i've tested and verified this with docking, but not with jumping, however, assuming stuff might work this time Ohnoes! not in the same corp as Don Zola anymore =/ The corp is mother, the corp is father.
Kryss Darkdust	Posted - 2006.04.30 22:15:00 - [22] Warp bubbles are one of the things in the game that are grossly unfair because their is simply no defense. In any game mechanic that has no option of defense is bad for the game. Warp scramblers for example are great, because you can counter them with Warp stabilizers. It requires the defender to make a conscious choice to use up one of his limited ship slots to have the protection against scramblers, plus scrambler strength vary and hence you have a bit of a struggle in both directions this is called "Balance". Warp bubbles need some form of counter or detection method. It would be enough for example to have a module that warns you of a warp bubble in a certain location. Something that gives you a chance to avoid it. As it is right now the only way to avoid warp bubbles is to simply not fly through unsecured space and that is quite frankly a stupid game mechanic and the devs really need to rethink it.
Rawthorm	Posted - 2006.04.30 22:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Kryss Darkdust Warp bubbles are one of the things in the game that are grossly unfair because their is simply no defense. In any game mechanic that has no option of defense is bad for the game. Warp scramblers for example are great, because you can counter them with Warp stabilizers. It requires the defender to make a conscious choice to use up one of his limited ship slots to have the protection against scramblers, plus scrambler strength vary and hence you have a bit of a struggle in both directions this is called "Balance". Warp bubbles need some form of counter or detection method. It would be enough for example to have a module that warns you of a warp bubble in a certain location. Something that gives you a chance to avoid it. As it is right now the only way to avoid warp bubbles is to simply not fly through unsecured space and that is quite frankly a stupid game mechanic and the devs really need to rethink it. How about do a long range scan before warping to a gate? Your eyes and your brain are your best defence...
Red Knight	Posted - 2006.05.01 02:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Rawthorm Originally by: Kryss Darkdust Warp bubbles are one of the things in the game that are grossly unfair because their is simply no defense. In any game mechanic that has no option of defense is bad for the game. Warp scramblers for example are great, because you can counter them with Warp stabilizers. It requires the defender to make a conscious choice to use up one of his limited ship slots to have the protection against scramblers, plus scrambler strength vary and hence you have a bit of a struggle in both directions this is called "Balance". Warp bubbles need some form of counter or detection method. It would be enough for example to have a module that warns you of a warp bubble in a certain location. Something that gives you a chance to avoid it. As it is right now the only way to avoid warp bubbles is to simply not fly through unsecured space and that is quite frankly a stupid game mechanic and the devs really need to rethink it. How about do a long range scan before warping to a gate? Your eyes and your brain are your best defence... If the bubble is anchored around the gate and jump into the system then you're toast, unless you have mwd and can get far enough fast enough. But an arbitrarily large blob + bubble around gate = i-win button against anything short of a battle fleet. I guess this is probably the intent of the devs, without this ability alliances could never lockdown 0.0 and make certain sections of territory their own. Without bubbles that 8 wcs apoc spy will almost always get through - if an alliance commits the force necessary to pop ships before they can mwd+warp, they get to keep the space safe. Would be nice though to have some way of turning tail and running away or knowing that the bubble was up, but then who would snigg be able to loot in MHC? ------------------------------------------ Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 400 pixels in width, smaller than 120 pixels in height and less than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques The Royal Guard, Currently Recruiting! Contact RedKnight or join =TRG= Chat ingame!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.01 08:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Arkani Gera Originally by: Xtopherus Will a bubble stop you from jumping though? I was caught in one the other day while traveling in a shuttle and I tried to make it to the gate. While they got my shuttle my pod made it to the gate but it wouldn't let me jump. Kept clicking jump but it wouldn't do anything. (had auto pilot on also) One thing I did learn though is not to assume they haven't had time to setup a bubble and try and insta past them. The map had not updated yet (showed 1 person in system and there was 7 or 8 no ship kills) so I thought well maybe they haven't had time to bubble up or maybe they are doing something else... I gambled...I lost. in this case it was the fact that they killed your shuttle that prevented you from jumping, when you lose a ship you are unable to dock/jump since the session change thingie makes you unable to do anything useful except warping for the next 30-something seconds...now, i've tested and verified this with docking, but not with jumping, however, assuming stuff might work this time Quite useful information... this will save my ass some day. --- The Eve Wiki Project
James Lyrus	Posted - 2006.05.01 09:16:00 - [26] A bubble will 'catch' you if your vector intersects with it. So even if you warp in at 100km, you may well still end up in that bubble. Thus setting up bubbles behind the gate is not uncommon, since you can just 'approach' an insta, and then anchor the bubble there. Arriving off an odd point, such as another planet which isn't 'close' to a gate (except maybe the one you're going to) gives good odds that you won't run into a bubble. Of course, a 'good' camp, will have bubbles on lots of incoming vectors, but these are relatively infrequent. -- We are recruiting We sell Chimeras.
Passepartout	Posted - 2006.05.01 12:44:00 - [27] Originally by: James Lyrus A bubble will 'catch' you if your vector intersects with it. So even if you warp in at 100km, you may well still end up in that bubble. Thus setting up bubbles behind the gate is not uncommon, since you can just 'approach' an insta, and then anchor the bubble there. Arriving off an odd point, such as another planet which isn't 'close' to a gate (except maybe the one you're going to) gives good odds that you won't run into a bubble. Of course, a 'good' camp, will have bubbles on lots of incoming vectors, but these are relatively infrequent. I believe that to be true too. If your "extended direction/vector" goes through a bubble in the same grid, you get vacuumed. 99,99% sure thats the rule. But my experience after trying on friendly bubbles is that if you land behind the bubble, you are unaffected. Thats based on my own limited testing, 95% sure thats the rule. That would be even more a reason forplacing them behind the gates.
prsr	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:42:00 - [28] The thing that matters is indeed the vector of your aproach. If it intersects with the bubble you will get drawn onto the edge of the bubble. A long time ago I was escorting new players through a bubble camp, I gave them a bookmark that was ca. 200km of the gate without any warpable objects behind them and positioned my covert-ops 10km past the gate from that point. The new players warped to the bm, then warped to my covert ops and were able to jump right through without running into the bubble since none of their warp vectors intersected the bubble. I'm not sure if it works the same with interdictor spheres.
Laura Briggs	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:57:00 - [29] On a related issue... Will a MWD work inside a bubble or interdiction sphere???
Stormhold	Posted - 2006.05.01 15:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Laura Briggs On a related issue... Will a MWD work inside a bubble or interdiction sphere??? Yes.

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