| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .. 18 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
510
   |
Posted - 2014.03.24 01:51:00 -
[91] - Quote
I love ISBoxer!
....the tears it generates are delicious. |
Belt Scout
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 01:54:00 -
[92] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Belt Scout wrote:Nidal Fervor wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Bots are bots. If it requires automation, it's not the player performing it.
The person who wants to run multiple clients should be required to give those clients their orders individually.
Using a bot to automate the giving of commands is using a bot.
And what's the policy on botting?
Ban ixboxers Exactly. They require 3rd party software to send the commands to the other clients, as many as they are running. The effect is the same as botting in every way. Ok there's clearly no showing you the errors in your comprehension of the eula. Please stop bothering to quote it until you have a clear and concise understanding. Let me ask you one final question. What if I used, say, 10 accounts, and EACH ACCOUNT was on a separate computer with its own keyboard and mouse, and I used an assembly of sticks to press the buttons ALL AT ONCE. Would this still be 'illegal' game play? oddly enough that is how ISK boxer works. I bet they would call it botting as well if you posted pictures on the internet of it.
Man, I was taking a sip of my coffee while googling "multiboxing with sticks" and this came up. My ribs hurt now. By the way, love ur sig.
http://gizmodo.com/5515135/mmorpg-multiboxing-gallery
|
Belt Scout
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 01:58:00 -
[93] - Quote
Klymer wrote:I love ISBoxer!
....the tears it generates are delicious.
You'd have to see iskboxer attack a gate camp. Its a freakin riot. Drop in at 25km, oooo, look at the pretty raven, blap alpha shot, move to next target, rinse and repeat.  |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 02:07:00 -
[94] - Quote
This topic is new and exciting!
Belt Scout wrote:
Let me ask you one final question. What if I used, say, 10 accounts, and EACH ACCOUNT was on a separate computer with its own keyboard and mouse, and I used an assembly of sticks to press the buttons ALL AT ONCE. Would this still be 'illegal' game play?
Well, according to this* german GM: yes, it would be illegal, since it doesn't matter how you brake the rules and "if a (mouse) click is distributed to multiple clients, thisparallelization also falls under 'automation' ".
google translate version of the german GM:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.eveonline.com%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fg%3Dposts%26m%3D3592753%23post3592753&act=url
Of course this whole debate is completely pointless, because CCP would never enforce those rules anyway. All those multiboxed accounts mean a lot of money for CCP.
|
Dalto Bane
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 02:16:00 -
[95] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:stuff about how is boxer not fair, blah
"Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep." |
Caviar Liberta
Moira.
Villore Accords
492
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 02:21:00 -
[96] - Quote
Belt Scout wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Belt Scout wrote:Nidal Fervor wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Bots are bots. If it requires automation, it's not the player performing it.
The person who wants to run multiple clients should be required to give those clients their orders individually.
Using a bot to automate the giving of commands is using a bot.
And what's the policy on botting?
Ban ixboxers Exactly. They require 3rd party software to send the commands to the other clients, as many as they are running. The effect is the same as botting in every way. Ok there's clearly no showing you the errors in your comprehension of the eula. Please stop bothering to quote it until you have a clear and concise understanding. Let me ask you one final question. What if I used, say, 10 accounts, and EACH ACCOUNT was on a separate computer with its own keyboard and mouse, and I used an assembly of sticks to press the buttons ALL AT ONCE. Would this still be 'illegal' game play? oddly enough that is how ISK boxer works. I bet they would call it botting as well if you posted pictures on the internet of it. Man, I was taking a sip of my coffee while googling "multiboxing with sticks" and this came up. My ribs hurt now. By the way, love ur sig. http://gizmodo.com/5515135/mmorpg-multiboxing-gallery
But but but sticks is giving an advantage. Must ban sticks  |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
227
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 02:24:00 -
[97] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:If the advantage the 3rd party program provides cannot be matched by the persons not using the 3rd party program, then it's abusing the advantage offered by a 3rd party program.
You got no ground to stand on. Based of your other threads and replies you are even worse then the troll that started this thread.
I'm disappointed in you. How can anyone consider your arguments valid when upon you being presented with an argument you can't refute, you resort to insulting the person proving your logic is flawed?
Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |
Belt Scout
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 02:32:00 -
[98] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:But but but sticks is giving an advantage. Must ban sticks
California will prolly jump on that whole stick banning bandwagon first.
|
Dalto Bane
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 02:43:00 -
[99] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:If the advantage the 3rd party program provides cannot be matched by the persons not using the 3rd party program, then it's abusing the advantage offered by a 3rd party program.
You got no ground to stand on. Based of your other threads and replies you are even worse then the troll that started this thread. I'm disappointed in you. How can anyone consider your arguments valid when upon you being presented with an argument you can't refute, you resort to insulting the person proving your logic is flawed?
What's the advantage? Alpha? Flawless Fleet coordination? Give me a break. Risk vs reward...I pay, I risk more, by undocking multiple accounts, whereas you may have one. When things do go wrong, they go way wrong. Bottom line, there is no statistics or study that has concluded that 20 accounts being multiboxed has an advantage over 20 corpmates with individual accounts. If anything, it is the individuals that have the advantage.
"Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep." |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
227
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 02:56:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:If the advantage the 3rd party program provides cannot be matched by the persons not using the 3rd party program, then it's abusing the advantage offered by a 3rd party program.
You got no ground to stand on. Based of your other threads and replies you are even worse then the troll that started this thread. I'm disappointed in you. How can anyone consider your arguments valid when upon you being presented with an argument you can't refute, you resort to insulting the person proving your logic is flawed? What's the advantage? Alpha? Flawless Fleet coordination? Give me a break. Risk vs reward...I pay, I risk more, by undocking multiple accounts, whereas you may have one. When things do go wrong, they go way wrong. Bottom line, there is no statistics or study that has concluded that 20 accounts being multiboxed has an advantage over 20 corpmates with individual accounts. If anything, it is the individuals that have the advantage.
The advantage is time. You say 20 individuals working against one botter with 20 accounts, they have the advantage.
If you spend 1 hour, with 20 accounts, it's still only 1 hour of your time. 1 hour.
20 people to fight your 20 accounts for 1 hour equals 20 hours. Because you're utilizing a 3rd party program that gives you the ability to do something you could not do out of game efficiently such as control 20 accounts in an quick effective manner.
3rd party programs that offer an advantage over others should be banworthy.
You argue that someone using an automation bot that will effectively play for him is illegal? Well according to your logic, that person "could" do every action manually, just as an isboxer could alt tab and input each action manually.
You say you risk 20 accounts worth of ships when you undock, Ok cool. That's nice i guess, but you're still there to save your own 20 account risk by telling them all to warp away and dock. Someone afk botting is taking a much larger risk because he's not there to decide when to and when not to warp away and dock.
an AFK botter is a GREATER risk than your 20 accounts. That leg is not strong enough to support your argument.
You don't want to manually alt tab to each instance of eve and input the commands seperately? Well someone else doesn't want to have to manually select a rock to target and manually press the f1 button.
You want to draw the line straight through the middle of automation, to pick and choose which one should and shouldn't be allowed, whichever one suits your desired playstyle.
I want no automation whatsoever. If you want to fly twenty ships, alt tab alot.
Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |
Muestereate
Minions LLC
199
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 03:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
Didn't read the middle of the thread but everybody with Google should know that bot scripts come with ISBOXER. WHy so many giving a hard time on an obvious bot thing? |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 03:32:00 -
[102] - Quote
it is allowed because it is making money to certain ppl.
it is also huge benefit to person using it farming to his / it heart content inflating / deflating prices / market x times faster than single person or group of persons would do promoting rotten gameplay that comes with it.
but since eve is game of alts this was a long time coming.
would like to see 10 char no is box farming multiboxing incursions it would last one site before hi would found his 10 chars in pods.not to mention that starter or badly fitted real ppl group would loose every single contest with is boxer getting shafted by single no lifer hungry for more plex purchases.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2732
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 03:45:00 -
[103] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk.
And people still have to manually control each one.
Quote:Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk.
And the botting accounts are handled by scripts and are automated without any player influence required.
Quote:Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting.
Because the former doesn't break the rules, the latter does.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2732
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 03:48:00 -
[104] - Quote
Muestereate wrote:bot scripts come with ISBOXER.
No they don't. And just because someone says something on the internet and you can find it with Google, it doesn't make it true.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Pew Terror
Green Associates
TITANS.
157
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 04:04:00 -
[105] - Quote
Confirming New Eden Openj showed ISBoxers are OP... |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 04:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
Confirming NEO is ALL of eve all 120km of it.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1524
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 04:14:00 -
[107] - Quote
Pew Terror wrote:Confirming New Eden Openj showed ISBoxers are OP...
Did the IsBoxer mining fleet win again?! Something must be done about this outrage.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Led Zeppelin420
Midnight Plague
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:27:00 -
[108] - Quote
EVE must be a capitalist universe. Why would such a flagrant violation of rules be tolerated. Only becase they make the rule makers more $$$$$. |
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:40:00 -
[109] - Quote
I just have to sit here and lol at the OP and their limited understanding of what botting really is. Bots are usually set up with a very user friendly and very simple design and after setting a few pre-defined configurations on what you want the bot to do you push a button that activates the bot and then you can walk away and do whatever you want to while that bot does everything in game for you. This usually occurs at a faster rate than what is normally accomplished. Isk Boxer is NOT a bot because commands to it MUST be "manually" issued. That means by its very definition... by hand. Bots do not operate this way once you have started it. Every single command from that point forward is issued by automation. This is also the reason that any program that activates or imitates a key press by an automated command is ALSO not allowed by CCP.
CCP has chosen to clarify this when they say that a program is allowed as long as it isn't gaining anything more than another single account can gain or accomplish in the same way and in the same amount of time as a normal solo player. That is their choice... as long as the person using the program is "manually sending the commands" and not using a program that is "automating those commands" then there is no breach of EULA or TOS regardless of what YOU want them to say. That's how it is... that is how it's been and I am fairly certain it will continue this way. I personally have no issue with it.
As per the comment about the AFK miner having more at risk than an Isk boxer... ummm no they have more stupidity than the Isk boxer but the risk is NOT greater for the AFKer. The AFK miner deserves anything that happens if they don't stay and watch their game... which is also true of anyone that goes AFK during any activity in this game if they are not docked up in a station.
Just my thoughts.
|
Led Zeppelin420
Midnight Plague
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:59:00 -
[110] - Quote
A bot program in the classical sense did exactly that for one click you got a whole series of command and things happening. Ok so isboxer may not be a bot program in the literal sense but you definitely gain an advantage when you can run 5, 10 or 20 accounts at once. isboxer is some kind of bot, macro, whatever program you want to call it. It gives users an advantage. Personally i don't care cuz it doesn't effect me in any way. But you cant trutfully tell me that a program that lets you run 20 accounts at the same time is legit.
Everyone knows why its ok to use. CCP like everyone else loves the almighty dollar, or EU i suppose. They will never ban anything that makes people want to have more accounts no matter how ridiculous it might be they will word it just so it change the rules just so to allow it. Its the world we live in.
Person A has 20 accounts and isboxer. Person B has the gnarliest comp ever and has 20 clients open and running and is alt-tabbing between them. Both go mining. Who gets more mined. You all know the answer, how is that not some kind of macro/bot program.
My final conclusions CCP people need to be government officials they talk the talk very well. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1909
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 06:25:00 -
[111] - Quote
It'd be good to have similar boxing functionality built directly into the client. Seems odd that we're playing a game that somewhat forces a player to use multiple accounts but with no support for multiple accounts.
Led Zeppelin420 wrote:
Person A has 20 accounts and isboxer. Person B has the gnarliest comp ever and has 20 clients open and running and is alt-tabbing between them. Both go mining. Who gets more mined. You all know the answer, how is that not some kind of macro/bot program.
My final conclusions CCP people need to be government officials they talk the talk very well.
Person A is paying a subscription for that extra ability.
How about Person A has a 5000 dollar gaming rig.
Person B has a 250 dollar laptop.
Person A can run 20 accounts easily.
Person B can barely run 1 account.
Should be we ban gaming rigs then?
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
680
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 06:39:00 -
[112] - Quote
@OP:
Have a look here for the last official statement of CCP on ISBoxer (at least the last I know of).
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3588651#post3588651
and
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3592753#post3592753
Remove insurance. |
Led Zeppelin420
Midnight Plague
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 06:46:00 -
[113] - Quote
Paying for the ability to cheat the system....
So your theory is if you cant compete just cheat
If someone wants to alt tab between 20 accounts let them. your still only acting on one account at one time with one account responding not acting on one and 20 respond.
I have a $279 ASUS laptop from best buy.
I could give a damn what people do I just don't like seeing the people who make rules word their way around them just for a few extra bucks. That's what makes this world ****** up.
But it all doesn't matter cuz in 5 maybe 10 yrs the EVE servers will power down permanently and CCP will have all its $$$ and nothing we say or do on here will change anything. |
Led Zeppelin420
Midnight Plague
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 06:54:00 -
[114] - Quote
Well that's all well and great but supposedly isboxer gets u nothing at an accelerated rate... so we all just wasted our time reading that. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1388
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 07:06:00 -
[115] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Nidal Fervor wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:
Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would?
Do you even understand how thing work?
Corps do not even come into this. A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster? Explain... Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums. And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time. The minute those corp members or players start automating the process without actually clicking then you move into the realms of botting. Learn the difference...
i guess you have never been to 0.0 sov battles?
When FC orders: primary - X, secondary - Y, fire!
And 50% of fleet target X, 50% of fleet - target Y....
When 10% of fleet warps to gates instead of align, or they just don't align at all and get behind the fleet.....
I guess it's a dream for every FC to just make ISBoxer fleet instead of regular players 
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1909
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 07:08:00 -
[116] - Quote
Led Zeppelin420 wrote:Paying for the ability to cheat the system....
So your theory is if you cant compete just cheat
If someone wants to alt tab between 20 accounts let them. your still only acting on one account at one time with one account responding not acting on one and 20 respond.
I have a $279 ASUS laptop from best buy.
I could give a damn what people do I just don't like seeing the people who make rules word their way around them just for a few extra bucks. That's what makes this world ****** up.
But it all doesn't matter cuz in 5 maybe 10 yrs the EVE servers will power down permanently and CCP will have all its $$$ and nothing we say or do on here will change anything.
The definition of cheating is breaking the rules of a game. Since no rules are being broken its obviously not cheating.
20 accounts, whether alt tabbing or using ISBoxer will always get you more than one account. I alt tabbed for the 9 years that I first played EvE and it was annoying. The main difference is its more natural to play with ISBoxer. There is not massive jump in income.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
680
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 07:44:00 -
[117] - Quote
Led Zeppelin420 wrote:Well that's all well and great but supposedly isboxer gets u nothing at an accelerated rate... so we all just wasted our time reading that.
That pretty much depends on whether you look at the player or the account.
Remove insurance. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1165
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 07:47:00 -
[118] - Quote
Last English statement I saw on ISBoxer by CCP was that they would neither confirm or deny if ISBoxer was strictly speaking allowed instead referring to the EULA.
Some ISBoxer functions 100% break the EULA, as it allows macro recording. Which comes under Botting.
The client 'modification' it does to display several clients in one window is edge case.
As is the click propagation. Since there is an argument that it allows accelerated clicking compared to not using the program, since you couldn't click 15/100 clients manually as fast as you can with ISBoxer.
TLDR version
Under a strict interpretation of the EULA, ISBoxer should actually be illegal, but CCP have decided to let it slide. Much like Cache scrapping. |
Sarah McKnobbo
McKnobbo Universal Traders
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 07:48:00 -
[119] - Quote
Led Zeppelin420 wrote:EVE must be a capitalist universe. Why would such a flagrant violation of rules be tolerated. Only becase they make the rule makers more $$$$$.
What violation? It's pretty clear that CCP allow multiboxing software. |
Nidal Fervor
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 08:15:00 -
[120] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:It'd be good to have similar boxing functionality built directly into the client. Seems odd that we're playing a game that somewhat forces a player to use multiple accounts but with no support for multiple accounts. Led Zeppelin420 wrote:
Person A has 20 accounts and isboxer. Person B has the gnarliest comp ever and has 20 clients open and running and is alt-tabbing between them. Both go mining. Who gets more mined. You all know the answer, how is that not some kind of macro/bot program.
My final conclusions CCP people need to be government officials they talk the talk very well.
Person A is paying a subscription for that extra ability. How about Person A has a 5000 dollar gaming rig. Person B has a 250 dollar laptop. Person A can run 20 accounts easily. Person B can barely run 1 account. Should be we ban gaming rigs then?
That would be a hardware advantage, not a software advantage, that's not in Eula because forcing players to downgrade their computers to play EVE would cost them much of their player base. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .. 18 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |