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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
423
   |
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:00:00 -
[151] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The software automates one button push to 19 other clients. Nope. The software mirrors non-automated input. Without manual input, nothing happens, because no automation is going on. No matter how angry you get over this issue and no matter how much you try to redefine the terms, this very simple fact remains.
Implying I am angry. Nope.
Implying I am redefining terms. Nope.
Definition of AUTOMATION
1
: the technique of making an apparatus, a process, or a system operate automatically
2
: the state of being operated automatically
3
: automatically controlled operation of an apparatus, process, or system by mechanical or electronic devices that take the place of human labor
Note the third definition.
When you manually press one button, the software automates that single action to 19 other clients, substituting that from the necessary human labor of manually pressing that same button once on each client, to a total of 20.
I'm sorry, Tippia. I'm just flat out much smarter than you are. I know it chafes you to no end, but me, it just amuses. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2068
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:00:00 -
[152] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk.
Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk.
Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting.
More money for CCP from a given number of players.
This is not a signature. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20222
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:02:00 -
[153] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Definition of AUTOMATION
1
: the technique of making an apparatus, a process, or a system operate automatically
2
: the state of being operated automatically
3
: automatically controlled operation of an apparatus, process, or system by mechanical or electronic devices that take the place of human labor GǪand none of those apply to multiboxing software since the operation of the ship is manual.
No input GåÆ no ouptut.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
423
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:04:00 -
[154] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
: automatically controlled operation of an apparatus, process, or system by mechanical or electronic devices that take the place of human labor
GǪand none of those apply to multiboxing software since the operation of the ship is manual.
No input GåÆ no ouptut.[/quote]
The operation of ONE ship is manual.
The operation of TWENTY ships by means of software, is AUTOMATED.
You do not manually control 20 ships. You control 1 ship. The software automates that action to the remaining 19.
Read the definition again. My god, you really are dim. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20222
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:05:00 -
[155] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The operation of ONE ship is manual.
The operation of TWENTY ships by means of software, is GǪalso manual.
No input GåÆ no output.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
423
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:08:00 -
[156] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪalso manual.
No input GåÆ no output.
You input one manual action.
What then results in 19 additional outputs?
Magic?
Go back to school, dilettante. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20222
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:10:00 -
[157] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪalso manual.
No input GåÆ no output. You input one manual input. GǪand without that input, nothing happens. Thus, no automation.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
423
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:12:00 -
[158] - Quote
Tippia wrote:You input one manual input]GǪand without that input, nothing happens. Thus, no automation.
You really are full pants-on-head stupid.
Even the most sophisticated bot system on earth requires atleast one manual input to activate.
With one manual input, the software automates 19 additional outputs.
You don't have to push 20 buttons. You push one. The software pushes the other 19.
That is automation. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1531
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:27:00 -
[159] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Sentamon wrote:You al need to quit crying and help CCP out by buying more accounts.
Teared up soloists spinning in stations don't so squat for the game, fleets of ships doing things create content. Yeah you are right, the guy who can do everything by himself and only plays with himself and his 30 alts is really creating content. 
Compared to the noob crying in the forums, yes he is. As an added bonus, he's not flooding Local with stupidity like your average player does.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1531
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:31:00 -
[160] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Is it automation? Yes.
No, it's repetition. You clearly have no idea what automation is.
A car that drives itself is automation, software that presses the gas petal on 20 cars is repetition, and it can't automate squat.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
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Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
963
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:46:00 -
[161] - Quote
Monkeys arguing over the correct way to peel a banana; The input of one player on one account then is certainly different than the input of one player instantly on 20 accounts (That, regardless of definition, requires some form of automation), Is that game breaking? I don't think so. Might be a little immersion breaking, but not game breaking.
Is it demoralizing to someone that does not (Or can/will not) use the same? Probably.
It still boils down to; Is allowing one guy to run 20 accounts good for EVE? It's probably not.
Is allowing one guy to pay for 20 accounts good for CCP? Without a doubt, yes.
So should CCP hamstring themselves by stopping one guy from cashing in 20 PLEX a month? Not if everyone else, not using ISB, wants to keep playing the game. You have to put up with some dirt if you want to play in the mud, sorry.
Things that keep me up at night;-á
Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs?
Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:51:00 -
[162] - Quote
The problem is not with isoboxer. The problem is with concord. Nerf concord and there will be no more isoboxing miners.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2337
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:56:00 -
[163] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:The problem is not with isoboxer. The problem is with concord. Nerf concord and there will be no more isoboxing miners.
get out of hisec.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
423
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:01:00 -
[164] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Is it automation? Yes.
No, it's repetition. You clearly have no idea what automation is. A car that drives itself is automation, software that presses the gas petal on 20 cars is repetition, and it can't automate squat.
I refer you to the following bolded definition of "automation":
1
: the technique of making an apparatus, a process, or a system operate automatically
2
: the state of being operated automatically
3
: automatically controlled operation of an apparatus, process, or system by mechanical or electronic devices that take the place of human labor |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2337
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:03:00 -
[165] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:\
I refer you to the following bolded definition of "automation":
1
: the technique of making an apparatus, a process, or a system operate automatically
2
: the state of being operated automatically
3
: automatically controlled operation of an apparatus, process, or system by mechanical or electronic devices that take the place of human labor
Defining "automation" is pointless, as its okay to automate some things and not okay to automate others.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
740
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:14:00 -
[166] - Quote
why its allowed? Because CCP makes tons of money with it.
Everything else is not allowed for automation. |
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:15:00 -
[167] - Quote
Personally I feel ISBoxer should not be allowed in EVE Online but CCP has taken a decision that it is alright to use that program. I expect as others have said it makes CCP more money either by increasing the amount of PLEX bought so the ISBoxers can buy PLEX with ISK or if, less likely, they pay for multiple subscriptions with RL cash. You can't blame CCP as they need to make money and first & foremost they are a business.
Users of ISBoxer are probably damaging to the economy of New Eden in various ways but the nuisance value in a local sense is probably more of a problem. I saw a probable ISBoxer fleet of about nine Nightmares no doubt of to do Incursions recently. I have nothing to do with Incursions though so I don't know what effect that has.
The main problem with ISBoxer use is large mining fleets staying in one or two systems constantly and decimating the belts. This can be very annoying for local small mining operations and manufacturers. The ISBoxer fleets I have encountered so far do not speak English so it's nearly impossible to communicate with them so they understand what I am contracted to do.
ISBoxer mining fleet pilots will invariably all have been 'born' around the same date and will usually, although not necessarily, have very similar or unimaginative names. They also tend in the worst cases to be logged on up to 18 hours a day and are therefore partially AFK a lot of the time. If you see this happening and it is personally causing you hassle I suggest try communicating with them. Failing that destroying their ships is the best option. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2341
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:27:00 -
[168] - Quote
ISboxing miners are good because they allow a lot of mining needed to be done by a few dedicated people, meaning low prices for everyone else. This is only bad for miners that use only a few accounts.
Bethan Le Troix wrote:The main problem with ISBoxer use is large mining fleets staying in one or two systems constantly and decimating the belts.
Only if you insist on mining your own ore, identifying you as a miner who is sad about competition and low ore prices rather than a serious manufacturer.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:54:00 -
[169] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tippia wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The software automates one button push to 19 other clients. Nope. The software mirrors non-automated input. Without manual input, nothing happens, because no automation is going on. No matter how angry you get over this issue and no matter how much you try to redefine the terms, this very simple fact remains. Implying I am angry. Nope. Implying I am redefining terms. Nope. Definition of AUTOMATION 1 : the technique of making an apparatus, a process, or a system operate automatically 2 : the state of being operated automatically 3 : automatically controlled operation of an apparatus, process, or system by mechanical or electronic devices that take the place of human labor Note the third definition. When you manually press one button, the software automates that single action to 19 other clients, substituting that from the necessary human labor of manually pressing that same button once on each client, to a total of 20. I'm sorry, Tippia. I'm just flat out much smarter than you are. I know it chafes you to no end, but me, it just amuses.
Umm you do realize you just totally disproved your point... look at the last part of the 3rd definition you yourself referred to. Isboxer program doesn't take the place of human labor... that is strictly speaking what a bot does. It doesn't need any input from a person once the program is activated. Isboxer DOES indeed need human input to work which is why by your own definition... Isboxer is NOT automated.
For clarification here is the definition of Manual:
1a : of, relating to, or involving the hands
b : worked or done by hand and not by machine
2: requiring or using physical skill and energy
Hmm... Isboxer requires MANUAL input so that in conjunction with your definition of automation, especially the part I underlined defines the fact that Isboxer is not a violation of the EULA.
Thanx for playing.
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LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:55:00 -
[170] - Quote
It seems logic and reason just bounce off ISboxer defenders.
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
742
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:07:00 -
[171] - Quote
Storm Novah wrote:
Umm you do realize you just totally disproved your point... look at the last part of the 3rd definition you yourself referred to. Isboxer program doesn't take the place of human labor... that is strictly speaking what a bot does. It doesn't need any input from a person once the program is activated.
in your opinion, auto transmission in a car isnt automated at all, since it needs human input from gas pedal after all, right? |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2343
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:09:00 -
[172] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:It seems logic and reason just bounce off ISboxer defenders.
At least they're agreeing with CCP's stated explanation. People that hate ISbox on the other hand are often just wrong about the basic facts of CCP policy and ISbox functionality, and they tend to base their decisions off seeing one mining fleet and going "grr i don't like that!" which is emotion, not logic.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20236
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:09:00 -
[173] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:in your opinion, auto transmission in a car isnt automated at all, since it needs human input from gas pedal after all, right?
No, the gas pedal does not operate the transmission. Gear stick does. In an automatic-transmission car, that input is being automated.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
742
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:13:00 -
[174] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:in your opinion, auto transmission in a car isnt automated at all, since it needs human input from gas pedal after all, right? No, the gas pedal does not operate the transmission. Gear stick does. In an automatic-transmission car, that input is being automated.
you mean like your mouse does not operate all 20 clients but isbox? Right. |
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:14:00 -
[175] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Storm Novah wrote:
Umm you do realize you just totally disproved your point... look at the last part of the 3rd definition you yourself referred to. Isboxer program doesn't take the place of human labor... that is strictly speaking what a bot does. It doesn't need any input from a person once the program is activated.
in your opinion, auto transmission in a car isnt automated at all, since it needs human input from gas pedal after all, right?
LOL... totally out of context. Seriously this is the best you can do? We are talking about software and you bring in cars? Yea... have a nice day. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2343
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:15:00 -
[176] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Tippia wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:in your opinion, auto transmission in a car isnt automated at all, since it needs human input from gas pedal after all, right? No, the gas pedal does not operate the transmission. Gear stick does. In an automatic-transmission car, that input is being automated. you mean like your mouse does not operate all 20 clients but isbox? Right.
Not a good analogy. An automatic transition turns a complex series of actions into a single button press (macro'd keystrokes), or it does that function entirely on its own (checking RPM, speed, and accelerator and making a decision to shift or not). Neither is comparable to ISboxer functionality.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
742
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:15:00 -
[177] - Quote
Storm Novah wrote:
LOL... totally out of context. Seriously this is the best you can do? We are talking about software and you bring in cars? Yea... have a nice day.
just trying with something simple, any idiot should be able understand. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
742
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:17:00 -
[178] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Not a good analogy. An automatic transition turns a complex series of actions into a single button press (macro'd keystrokes), or it does that function entirely on its own (checking RPM, speed, and accelerator and making a decision to shift or not). Neither is comparable to ISboxer functionality.
why not a good analogy? Whats the difference? Autotransmission changing gears in dependence of RPM (wich in turn depends from gas input) - isbox is clicking depending on users input somewhere else. This is a perfect analogy. |
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:27:00 -
[179] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Storm Novah wrote:
LOL... totally out of context. Seriously this is the best you can do? We are talking about software and you bring in cars? Yea... have a nice day.
just trying with something simple, any idiot should be able understand.
Wow... what is it with the name calling. It's a friendly discussion and I don't know that much about cars to be honest but that doesn't make me an idiot. I just don't understand how that is relative. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20238
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 17:32:00 -
[180] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:you mean like your mouse does not operate all 20 clients but isbox? Right. No, I mean like your mouse does not operate the seeker head on your old-fashioned platter hard-drive.
ISBoxer is a steering servo GÇö it doesn't drive the car; without input, you'll still end up in a ditch.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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