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Shiva Seran	Posted - 2006.05.02 06:51:00 - [1] if you end up getting killed by a suicider, "only" because you carried 500mil of t2 stuff in a t1 hauler (just an everyday example), please consider two things: 1. it's your fault because you jumped into the lake full of piranhas for a bath being as careless as can be 2. it's a business after all, and we do this just as you do yours. so please, reduce the amounts of swear words in your multiple hate mails. it is a business between respected members of society, so we expect to be called Sir/Madam as you do. we are not lawless people, we just have another sense for "law" as CONCORD has. after all, we do it for the benefit of our people and children. in the end, i just want to say thank you to many, on behalf of many others.
Amerrus Eka	Posted - 2006.05.02 12:33:00 - [2] /signed And this is from someone who makes all his money hauling in Empire.
Lanfear's Bane	Posted - 2006.05.02 12:45:00 - [3] /lacks content. I'd lock it if I was a mod. Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _ Now selling T2 Mushrooms.
Bl4zer	Posted - 2006.05.02 13:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Shiva Seran if you end up getting killed by a suicider, "only" because you carried 500mil of t2 stuff in a t1 hauler (just an everyday example), please consider two things: 1. it's your fault because you jumped into the lake full of piranhas for a bath being as careless as can be 2. it's a business after all, and we do this just as you do yours. so please, reduce the amounts of swear words in your multiple hate mails. it is a business between respected members of society, so we expect to be called Sir/Madam as you do. we are not lawless people, we just have another sense for "law" as CONCORD has. after all, we do it for the benefit of our people and children. in the end, i just want to say thank you to many, on behalf of many others. Just 2 points 1. If you are killing in high sec you are breaking the law of the area that you are in, so you are lawless. Its like when merkins spout on about these amendment thingies to us Europeans, its just meaningless noise. 2. Getting hate mail is good, the nastier the better, it increases the enjoyment I get from killing an evil miner. If you can't cope with this, get out of the high sec killing business. Save the Ubar asteroids
Treborprime	Posted - 2006.05.02 14:04:00 - [5] its too easy to get into an industrial. Im now 17 days old and I can fly a Skill 4 Indy. Cause its so easy those that do not fully understand what a suicide attack is will be understandably miffed at it. That being said a suicide attack is not realistic in the terms of piracy. You are exploiting game mechanics in a scenario that has never had any place in the halls of piracy since the high seas. Pirates sacrifice nothing to make a profit. If they have to sacrifice anything its already not very profitable. But because haulers are so weak pirates throw themselves at it knowing they are getting around game mechanics to make a profit. Thats cheesy I'm sorry. There is never profit to be had in suicide running a hauler...well there is in Eve but there shouldn't be. The solution is simple. Make haulers more difficult to fly so people stick with their cargo cruisers or BS's at the same time haulers need to be tougher defensive wise in armor and shields. The wing commander and privateer games had it right with cargo vessels. Make the consequences of a suicide run 10X more severe than they are now when taking place in High sec space. My logic is that the term suicide run means already some getting around of game mechanics is happening. If you are in Green space you should be safe. Move down to yellow and below well yellow means caution...
Lanfear's Bane	Posted - 2006.05.02 14:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Treborprime My logic Hahahahahahaha. I missed that part. Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _ Now selling T2 Mushrooms.
Usul Faust	Posted - 2006.05.02 14:31:00 - [7] all non-consentual pvp is rape! ban the griefers! haul! mine! prevail! no skills, just luck.
Jaos Nekri	Posted - 2006.05.02 16:40:00 - [8] All I can say is that I wish there was a good, non-defensive way to protect yourself against highsec piracy. At least in lowsec you have the option of firing first at a pirate.
Ayame Mishima	Posted - 2006.05.02 16:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Jaos Nekri All I can say is that I wish there was a good, non-defensive way to protect yourself against highsec piracy. At least in lowsec you have the option of firing first at a pirate. Errr... those ships that are being destroyed there would be destroyed in low sec as well. There's not much difference there. Would you shoot a BS with a T1 indy?
Malka Badi'a	Posted - 2006.05.02 16:51:00 - [10] High-sec only remains as safe as it is now because we allow you that comfort. All the CONCORD deployed in the galaxy wouldn't be able to push back a massive invasion of pirating forces. --------------
Iroquois	Posted - 2006.05.02 16:56:00 - [11] Originally by: Bl4zer 1. If you are killing in high sec you are breaking the law of the area that you are in, so you are lawless. Its like when merkins spout on about these amendment thingies to us Europeans, its just meaningless noise. I'm usually very supportive of retards or mentally handicapped people who play video games, but you are beyond the limits of my good nature. Retard posts - 4tl.
Netto	Posted - 2006.05.02 17:31:00 - [12] Hah, there is a new sport developing, which I personally find hysterical. Haul T2 bpc's in your cruiser :D. Too big for kessies, perfect for those T2 suicide armageddons though ;). Saw three geddons try and pop a friends hac (was tanked for Em/therm) when he was moving 5 different T2 bpc's. Was quite a show :). Oh and whining about people whining is funny. Netto Celestial Fleet - We care.
Katrina Coreli	Posted - 2006.05.02 17:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Malka Badi'a High-sec only remains as safe as it is now because we allow you that comfort. All the CONCORD deployed in the galaxy wouldn't be able to push back a massive invasion of pirating forces. You allow us? Bring your army and well see if your any match for CONCORD plus any anti pirates who would care to come along. Im afraid your big words will nead to be backed up by actions before i take any ntoice
Malka Badi'a	Posted - 2006.05.02 17:43:00 - [14] Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 02/05/2006 17:44:10 Quote: You allow us? Bring your army and well see if your any match for CONCORD plus any anti pirates who would care to come along. You must be new here. You don't remember the dozens upon dozens of times when singular corporations fitted up expendable battleships and tanked off the sentry guns and CONCORD to leave incredible wakes of devestation at Jita gates and similar? A fleet of 500-600 pirates would decimate a constellation, and a conjoined force of 2,000-4,000 pirates overtaking a high-sec region would be a peice of cake. Don't believe me? Search the forums, plenty of places where a pirate corp grew sick and tired of CONCORD law and invaded with amazing results. CONCORD is not god, you simply have to tank long enough to cause destruction and then let your tank run out on purpose to avoid the exploit. I mean, for the love of toast, high-sec griefing and invasion went on long before m0o. Who here remembers Zombie corp and them single handedly bringing down the CONCORD forces with such perfection that CONCORD had to be upgraded? --------------
Pyrok	Posted - 2006.05.02 17:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Malka Badi'a Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 02/05/2006 17:44:10 Quote: You allow us? Bring your army and well see if your any match for CONCORD plus any anti pirates who would care to come along. You must be new here. You don't remember the dozens upon dozens of times when singular corporations fitted up expendable battleships and tanked off the sentry guns and CONCORD to leave incredible wakes of devestation at Jita gates and similar? A fleet of 500-600 pirates would decimate a constellation, and a conjoined force of 2,000-4,000 pirates overtaking a high-sec region would be a peice of cake. Don't believe me? Search the forums, plenty of places where a pirate corp grew sick and tired of CONCORD law and invaded with amazing results. CONCORD is not god, you simply have to tank long enough to cause destruction and then let your tank run out on purpose to avoid the exploit. I mean, for the love of toast, high-sec griefing and invasion went on long before m0o. Who here remembers Zombie corp and them single handedly bringing down the CONCORD forces with such perfection that CONCORD had to be upgraded? So are you offering to take over the logistical and political nightmare of convincing every high-sec pirate to join your little war against nothing? With extreme losses and little gain? Who's going to reimburse the guys that lose ships but don't grab loot? Just because something is physically possible doesn't mean you can do it.
Malka Badi'a	Posted - 2006.05.02 17:55:00 - [16] Quote: So are you offering to take over the logistical and political nightmare of convincing every high-sec pirate to join your little war against nothing? With extreme losses and little gain? Who's going to reimburse the guys that lose ships but don't grab loot? My war? When did this become a war? I have no intention on launching anything into empire because I'm far too busy mopping up low-sec. "We" pirates does not singularly encompass just myself, but all pirates in EVE. The people who every so often invade high-sec and tank off CONCORD. The pirates who war-dec 30-40 corps at a time and gank away in high-sec. The ore thieves who can now fire upon and destroy the miners besides just taking their ore. The few creature comforts in high-sec exist because "we" as a group don't push it farther, even though we've done it in the past to prove that we could. It may be time for another move like that, as it's been a few months and the crowd is starting to get the*****y "bleh, concord will just pwn, we don't understand how game mechanics work". Will I lead it? Hardly. I'd vote up ex Zombie members or any vets of TLBC. --------------
CrushProject	Posted - 2006.05.02 18:22:00 - [17] Pirates of the universe unite bishes!
Hunters Presence	Posted - 2006.05.02 18:34:00 - [18] Quote: All the CONCORD deployed in the galaxy wouldn't be able to push back a massive invasion of pirating forces. Forgive my lack of knowledge on this particular subject, but isn't the CONCORD response directly proporational to the 'rogue' forces that are commiting crimes? If I were to attack, one concordokken squad appears, if my mate then gets involved another squad appears? Therefore, surely CONCORD have infinite resources given the current game mechanics? Lots of presumptions here on my part, I'm just intrigued which one of them is wrong. I don't bother poking CONCORD to test their stimulus like everyone else does :p ----- Lead Games Programmer @ Quasit-Rushyo Games \| Me!
Malka Badi'a	Posted - 2006.05.02 18:39:00 - [19] You are correct in how they respond yes :) My origonal statement was just meant as a "threatening mockery" rather than fact of CONCORD fleet size. As the number of invasions continued the CONCORD fleet would grow proportionally. However, it's still a matter of logistics and how many CONCORD would be needed against even a group of 6-7 apocs kitted for heavy tanking and low but high RoF damage. --------------
Netto	Posted - 2006.05.02 19:21:00 - [20] Edited by: Netto on 02/05/2006 19:23:23 Er.. Maybe you haven't been concordokened lately but you may want to rethink that "Tanked apoc" idea. These aren't the concord of old that were technically beatable. No mass invasions of Jita will be happening anytime soon. Let me know if you do try, though. It would be fun to watch your fleet get mopped up in seconds, assuming the node just didn't die. But the literal aspects of it aside, it's fun to threaten n00bs with waves of ebil pi-rats.. YARR! Netto Edit: Well, maybe a complex tank setup with multiple remote repper ships. Wouldn't use an apoc though, more like a scorp. Celestial Fleet - We care.
6Bagheera9	Posted - 2006.05.02 19:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Iroquois Originally by: Bl4zer 1. If you are killing in high sec you are breaking the law of the area that you are in, so you are lawless. Its like when merkins spout on about these amendment thingies to us Europeans, its just meaningless noise. I'm usually very supportive of retards or mentally handicapped people who play video games, but you are beyond the limits of my good nature. Retard posts - 4tl. I really have no feelings here one way or the other. I just wanted to say that this was a nice burn.
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.02 19:53:00 - [22] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/05/2006 19:54:34 Originally by: Shiva Seran 1. it's your fault because you jumped into the lake full of piranhas for a bath being as careless as can be 2. it's a business after all, and we do this just as you do yours. so please, reduce the amounts of swear words in your multiple hate mails. it is a business between respected members of society, so we expect to be called Sir/Madam as you do. we are not lawless people, we just have another sense for "law" as CONCORD has. after all, we do it for the benefit of our people and children. I've never smack talked in local, and I've never hate mailed. I know that PVP is part of the game. However, your point #1 is ridiculous. It is not their fault that they got ganked in high sec. They did nothing that directly caused them to get ganked in high sec. For that matter, it isn't your fault either; nor anyone's fault. It is simply part of the game, not considered and exploit of game mechanics, and thus is a reasonable tactics for those you want to do the ganking. You play the role of a lawless person. Expect to be hated. I don't hate pirates or gankers, but I do what I can to escape and avoid them. They are playing the game the way they want to, and I am playing the game the way I want to. Hate mails and smack talk are as much part of their role as and podding is part of your role. I'm not even what you could call a 'typical' role player. I don't make up character backstories, or make up attitudes for my character to have. I don't 'role play' in the typical sense. However, I do play a role in the Eve universe. So do you. Let others play their roles; and may you have luck playing yours. Gotcha! I bet that got ya all hot under the collar, didn't it?
Pyrok	Posted - 2006.05.02 20:16:00 - [23] Originally by: Malka Badi'a Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 02/05/2006 17:56:59 Quote: So are you offering to take over the logistical and political nightmare of convincing every high-sec pirate to join your little war against nothing? With extreme losses and little gain? Who's going to reimburse the guys that lose ships but don't grab loot? My war? When did this become a war? I have no intention on launching anything into empire because I'm far too busy mopping up low-sec. "We" pirates does not singularly encompass just myself, but all pirates in EVE. The people who every so often invade high-sec and tank off CONCORD. The pirates who war-dec 30-40 corps at a time and gank away in high-sec. The ore thieves who can now fire upon and destroy the miners besides just taking their ore. The few creature comforts in high-sec exist because "we" as a group don't push it farther, even though we've done it in the past to prove that we could. It may be time for another move like that, as it's been a few months and the crowd is starting to get the***y "bleh, concord will just pwn, we don't understand how game mechanics work". Will I lead it? Hardly. I'd vote up ex Zombie members or any vets of TLBC. Quote:** Just because something is physically possible doesn't mean you can do it. I feel like I'm the only person playing this game. No one noticed the many, many, high-sec invasions into 0.9 and 1.0 systems? Because it isn't a matter of telling us we can't do it, because it's already been done time and time again. I never said it couldn't be done on a small scale among friends or corpmates, with one or two systems, but the idea of uniting 600 pirates out there under the same banner with little to no promise of reward and a high fatality rate is completely laughable, and exactly what you suggested be done, the mere thought of it happening with four THOUSAND is insane on a good day. Who's going to organize it? Who's going to be responsible for the logistics? Sure, the encompassing "pirates" might have the firepower to take over all of empire space, but they don't have the command, the coordination, the leadership, the tactics, or the motive to do it.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.05.02 20:28:00 - [24] Lamest brag thread ever. Ban Shiva for no content. Wherever you went - here you are.
picture	Posted - 2006.05.02 20:58:00 - [25] ban Ghoest for bumping a bannable thread then, too!
Ma'lice	Posted - 2006.05.02 21:17:00 - [26] 1 Concord fleet per combatant. Now would that include the repping support ships? as combatants that is? WTF is up with singularity? DAMMIT!
Treborprime	Posted - 2006.05.03 00:59:00 - [27] Edited by: Treborprime on 03/05/2006 01:02:21 Edited by: Treborprime on 03/05/2006 00:59:32 cargo vessels in the history of mankind have been 1) weak but escorted. I suppose suiciding could be akin to WWII and the convoy game. But the risk vs reward was always very high against any Uboat commander. What risk do Suicide runners in Eve have ? 2) or they have been defensive juggernauts in that they can take a beating till they can get away. Making a suicide run at a hauler in High sec space should cost you at least to be immediately podded by concord. Does it ? I am not familar with this hole concept of suicide runs... but I gather a gate camp occurs and when a hauler appears a frigate makes a run at it... banking on the fact that a hauler will go down very fast and that concord will take at least that amount of time before reacting and destroying the offending ship. So the pirate loses a small ship and loses basically nothing and suffers what he or she would normally suffer for attacking anything from a piracy stand point. A friend of theirs then goes and loots the cans from the hauler. If thats the case the reprocussions of such are kind of lame. The easy solution is to beef up the haulers armor. Shields will always be weak and they have no firepower. At least make the suicide runners WORK for their ISK. Risk vs reward for suiciding a hauler in high sec space is way out of balance and needs to be adjusted. There is no logic that can be presented to say it is not. You are exploiting game mechanics plain and simple. Again I ask what RISK does the suicide runner take for getting the reward of a juicy hauler in high sec space ?
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2006.05.03 01:22:00 - [28] Look at it at both sides... the risk haulers take and the risk pirates take. Haulers take the risk of getting ganked in high sec with several hundred millions of loot... if they own that money to carry aroundin a t1 hauler you must have enough money to replace it, right? The pirates take the risk of loosing their ship... may not sound that big, but when loot goes p00f, you're screwed. Also security hits are much harder in high sec than in low sec afaik. I don't get your argument about suicide runs being unrealistic... know how many people drive cars into stores every day?
Treborprime	Posted - 2006.05.03 01:58:00 - [29] heh those cars into stores eh ? I'm pretty sure they get arrested and thrown in jail each and every time ;). But ok they take higher security hits... whats that mean to a pirate ? Nothing really. They take security hits all the time. Whats one more going to do ? So yes I suppose the hauler takes a risk. But their risk is 3000 times fold higher than a pirate thats going to lose a frigate and take a relatively small by comparisons security hit. Risk must be equal on both sides. So whats adequate risk for a suicide runner ? The point of this debate is that its not high enough when compared to the risk a hauler takes. The equation must equalize ;) .
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2006.05.03 02:27:00 - [30] Meh.. wanna avoid being ganked? be a girly man and use instas Instas rox!

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