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Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
369
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Posted - 2014.03.28 09:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently Isthar is to overpowered weapon platform - both for PVE and PVP. It is the only HAC that can get 700+ DPS while keeping all their tank and mobility.
Idea is very simple, reduce damage per level to sentry dones from ship bonuses from 10 to 5% per level while keeping 10% for other drone types.
Isthar Changes LVL 5 Missions in Nullspace |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
465
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Posted - 2014.03.28 10:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
So sboot the sentries if they bother you. You dont get that option with other weapon systems. |
Seliah
0mega.
103
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Posted - 2014.03.28 10:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: It is the only HAC that can get 700+ DPS while keeping all their tank and mobility.
You don't keep "all your mobility" when using sentries. They can't follow you around, so while your ship can still move, your DPS source is anchored in a specific point, and that's a huge constraint in many cases (prolly not in PVE though). |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
52
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Posted - 2014.03.28 10:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
The problem is they get battleship class weapons with better range and tracking.
Its like having a Munnin that can fit 1400mm artillery and 800mm autocannons, with bonuses applied to them.
Maybe the fix is to introduce medium sized sentries. |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
369
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seliah wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: It is the only HAC that can get 700+ DPS while keeping all their tank and mobility.
You don't keep "all your mobility" when using sentries. They can't follow you around, so while your ship can still move, your DPS source is anchored in a specific point, and that's a huge constraint in many cases (prolly not in PVE though).
Actually you are keeping all mobility on a grid - you just have to keep distance from the drones.
Yes you can loose drones during rewarps , but that cannot be explenation for 700 + dps on a HAC that can keep all the tank and grid mobility.
Isthar Changes LVL 5 Missions in Nullspace |
Sato Page
BLOORDOGY
9
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
HAC should do around 500dps max with very good skills. Ishtar clearly needs to be nerfed, heavily. +1
edit: While a gank fit enyo can do 400dps, I still consider it to be well balanced. The Problem with sentry Ishtar is the combined effect of good mobility, good dps and good damage projection. A good solution would be to restrict the drone damage bonus to only heavy/medium/light drones. This way the projection of sentry is balanced by reduced dps. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
397
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm on the fence with this.
Not sure if it's OP or balanced.
I do however feel that sized sentry drones would be the best thing to be introduced to the game. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
337
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm not entirely sure about what you mean with tank.
My PVP Shield Ishtar has 750 DPS with a tank of 29k EHP (active EM hardener) and a damage range of 30-50 km. My Zealot has ~49k EHP with damage of around 530 DPS at 20-30 km.
The drones of the Ishtar can be easily countered by orbiting the drones and shooting them, the Zealot needs to be hunted down. Drones can be shot and destroyed and are non-replenishable, Zealot's weapons cannot. Ishtar's drones need to be recollected or abandoned to chose another range or damage type, which you can only do so often, Zealot's weapons just need to switch crystals, or in case of other HAC, ammo in general.
I don't see much OP here. |
Bertral
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:It is the only HAC that can get 700+ DPS while keeping all their tank and mobility. The Deimos hits harder and has a better active tank. The problem isn't with it's tank and mobility. It's the range at wich it's able to project that much damage. As said before, sentries are battleship class weapons. It's like having a talos with HAC ehp. I get that sentries have downsides but come on : - you can change damage types - you have range and tracking bonus from omnidirs (unlike missiles) - you can adapt your range, just like swapping ammo, by swapping sentry types - you deal BS-class damage at BS-class range with almost cruiser-class tracking - you don't need capacitor to keep them shooting - hell, you don't even need to lock you target - and most importantly : you can change WEAPONS SYSTEMS during a fight (launch light drones to kill frigs, ECM drones to gtfo, ...). It's like you could swap to light pulses/beams while fighting in a zealot and get a bonus to it.
Downside : - You can lose them.
Wow. |
Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
17
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
I do not agree. To keep sentry drones alive means to be around to scoop them back so mobility is pratically null. If you use heavies the enemy can easily shoot them down. Ishtar drones are in line with gallente ship philosophy. More DPS than other races overall at the cost of increased exposure to agression. |
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Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
369
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Your shield isthar is way more mobile than this zealot - you can even fit 100AB on this isthar. Remember that you are tanking then using both signature and speed.
Yes it can be refitted way to easily. Yes you can loose drones - but carrier sitting on a pos can refil drones for a whole fleet.
Isthar Changes LVL 5 Missions in Nullspace |
Red Teufel
Conflagrated Authority
369
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
downside: not mobile once deployed, can be destroyed not easily replaced easily countered would rather fly a tornado or naga |
Jint Hikaru
Truly Transdimensional The Nova Foundry
1150
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
To make any changes to your sentry drones you have to go to within 2500m of where they are positioned. Your enemy knows (should know) this, and should be ready to act on it.
Not to mention the PITA of Sentry drones creep, where they drift apart. No you have a real problem scooping them one by one, if there are enemies on the field.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
170
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rab See wrote:The problem is they get battleship class weapons with better range and tracking.
Its like having a Munnin that can fit 1400mm artillery and 800mm autocannons, with bonuses applied to them.
Maybe the fix is to introduce medium sized sentries. Since when has any type of drone been 'Battleship class' weaponry?
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
370
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Very simple. Light drones = Light Guns Med Drones = Med guns Sentry drones / Heavy Drones = Heavy Guns Fighters / Fighter Bombers = Capital Guns
Isthar Changes LVL 5 Missions in Nullspace |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
170
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Incorrect.
Fighters/Fighter bombers are class specific by virtue of their (relatively) huge volume, and were released specifically for a specific class (Carriers/Supercarriers)
Drones on the other hand have never been class specific, light/medium/heavy from release, sentry drones from (can't recall) whichever expansion it was.
Any classification, as you have made there, is purely that - just your classification.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Liam Inkuras
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
904
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Posted - 2014.03.28 13:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Very simple. Light drones = Light Guns Med Drones = Med guns Sentry drones / Heavy Drones = Heavy Guns Fighters / Fighter Bombers = Capital Guns
Not in the slightest. Heavy drones are a cruiser class weapon. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
304
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Posted - 2014.03.28 13:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
I have to admit the Ishtar is damn strong but i prefer the Deimos.
The Reason is simple, you can move freely across the field.
At the moment you reach the Sentrys you can destroy them and the Ishtar DPS Drops to zero, and even he supports his own sentrys your so close they barely hit you so its the same result.
Honestly a Brawling Berserker Ishtar is much more terrifiying.
But maybe i am not eligible because i prefer brawling over sniping anyday! |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
170
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Just to further clarify my last:
Look at ship bonuses:
"...bonus to Small Hybrid..." "....bonus to Medium Hybrid...." "...bonus to Large Hybrid..." - demonstration of 'class specific' weaponry,
Now look at your bog standard standard drone bonus:
"...bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage"
it is not, nor ever has been class specific, ergo, drones are not class specific (no, the Ishtar does not have 'Battleship class weaponry' and note that Heavy drones do even more. damage..)
Just as all us old timers know.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
370
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Posted - 2014.03.28 13:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well try to mount XL sized guns on cruiser weapons. They are only designed to be used by Capital ships like Fighters and FB.
And yes we don't have a specific split for drones except : subcapital , and Capital class.
Still based on this that Sentry drones and heavy drones require the same amount of Bandwidth we can put them in the same class. They behave differently - Heavy drones have to fly - sentry drones act more like guns.
Now when we make the classic split : Large/Medium/Small using as argument drone bandwidth then we will have Large : Sentry \Heavy drones Medium : Medium drones Small : Light Drones
In case of the sentry drones we have also base specification :
So range/tacking Warden I : 50 + 25 /0.01 425mm Railgun I : 48 / 0.01010625 rad/sec
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/425mm_Railgun_I https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Drones:Combat_Drones:Sentry_Drones
In case of the guns we have usually Optimal Range Bouns OR Damage Bonus Now in case of drones we have both for certain type of ships.
This is acceptable for Dominix , as drones are specific, but in case of a cruiser that already use full set of oversized guns - this is very OP. Isthar Changes LVL 5 Missions in Nullspace |
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
270
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Posted - 2014.03.28 13:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:So sboot the sentries if they bother you. You dont get that option with other weapon systems.
This. |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
370
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
One of the solution is doing 2 changes. 1.Limiting all Cruiser class ships to have bandwidth = 100 Mb 2.Reducing Bandwidth need for heavy drones from 25 to 20
This way only battleships will be able to field 5 sentry drones, and isthars will loose 1/5 of their current dps. Gilas with changes suggested by the CCP will not be affected by this.
I think there is no other (standard ) cruisers capable fielding 5 sentry drones atm.
Isthar Changes LVL 5 Missions in Nullspace |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
304
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Touch my EOS and i gonna **** you tonight! >:-[ |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
370
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Touch my EOS and i gonna **** you tonight! >:-[
No way , my wife will DD you. Isthar Changes LVL 5 Missions in Nullspace |
Psychoactive Stimulant
84
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Posted - 2014.03.28 15:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
What's a tier? |
marVLs
576
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Posted - 2014.03.28 15:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ishtar is ok, nerf it even a little and it will be crap |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
156
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Posted - 2014.03.28 15:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sentries in general are brokenly overpowered.
The Vexor is far too powerful, the Ishtar is a tech 2 version of this overpowered class.
Ishtar has been broken since it's existence, but you won't see a fix anytime soon. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
318
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Posted - 2014.03.28 15:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
A serious question (i'm in a pensive mood): if the ishtar and vexor are so overpowered why isn't everybofy with enough skills flying them above every other class of ship? |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2530
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
I give up a LOT of tank in order to get high dps from my armor ishtar. The thing has absolute crap HP too unless i give up one of my 5 lowslots for a plate. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
683
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
the ishtar itself is not OP ..it is quite hard to fit to utilise the full range of sentries .. sentries on the other hand are OP
gardes - 660 dps with 2 DDA's max lv5 skills upto 50km ish with omnis ... even a Talos would have a hard time doing comparable damage at that range.. bouncers doing 580 dps upto 110km then falloff is as far as you can control your drones about 150km with 3 DLA's Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
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