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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2014.03.28 22:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Danalee wrote:
Yes, harassment = BAN THE WITCH.
Harassment needs a victim -> No victims in this case.
Harassment needs to be reported -> No report made.
Harssment in game (which the EULA applies to) needs to be verified in the logs -> logs show nothing.
Guy with issues (greed, whatever) conned into the whole scam culminating in bonus room. Guy with issues (rage, whatever) stays in bonus room and says terrible things as he is deliberately humiliated for the entertainment of the scam's organizer and friends long after all his in-game assets are theirs. I note that the moment they had all his stuff, this no longer had anything to do with EVE.
Scam organizer and friends publish recording outside of game for public LOLz. Most normal, reasonable people find this repugnant. Forum shitstorm ensues.
CCP and CSM, being for the most part normal, reasonable people, agree and take action.
Sorry...the fact that the scammer and friends conned said guy with issues to come back to their TS channel and say nice things (wonder what they offered him that was not on the TS chat they published) does not undue anything that went before. It does not excuse or erase anything.
Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. This game is a service provided by CCP. They run it pretty fast-and-loose which is part of the appeal but still Their property. "No shoes, no shirt, no service" and so on. If I don't like the way they run it I am free to stop using their service. If they don't like the way I use it they are free to kick me out.
Arguments about rules, laws, TOS, EULA...irrelevant. Arguments that nothing happened because no formal complaint was made...likewise, irrelevant (especially with the original recording out there for all to hear). This is private property.
Strikes me that if anybody is not OK with this outcome, or finds the notion of the service provider acting to protect their reputation and brand somehow unjust, maybe they ought to leave the game. I'm sure EVE will survive without you.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2014.03.28 23:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Have I gone beyond a gank if I trash talk in local? Having the guy sing a few songs is not much different. Plenty of things in this game are not done for any real gain.
Trash talking after a fight is all about your ego. Personally, I find players who feel the need to do that to be weak. They are just like children on a playground, trying to paper over their own insecurity with posturing. It's a waste of time. As is responding to it.
You say something repugnant enough while you are trash talking, you will find yourself wondering why that banhammer hit you so hard. Even if you personally can't understand. Seen people banned for stuff said/posted in local. And every time they acted surprised, as if they couldn't imagine why.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2014.03.28 23:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote:I'll say something silly: No rules have been broken and I have the EULA, the TOS and international law to back it up. D.  Yes, that's silly. Because it's obviously wrong. And I have a CCP decision to back it up.  What decision was that? They dont seem to have made any changes. And yeah, cause CCP are infallible too, right?
Decision didn't go your way. Rage and tears flow.
CCP made their decision. Their brand, their service, their right to interpret their rules however they see fit.
Get over it. You are free to leave if this is not acceptable.
Freedom to leave...now that *is* real freedom. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2014.03.28 23:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I can understand your issues with this. Sohkar actually sought Ero out, not the other way around. Late in the stream Ero did contract Sohkar around 1.5 bill in assets.
I'm not going to respond you your conclusion because you are entitled to your opinion, but I did want to clear those points up.
Fair enough. Everybody is always free to form their own opinions and judgements but unless you are able to interpret those in the right context, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
I don't have to agree with the way CCP has come down on this issue. I have a choice: accept it as given and carry on or take my toys someplace else.
Simplez.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.03.28 23:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Freedom, and responsibility, are two diametrically opposed elements that nonetheless are intrinsically linked.
There can never be one, without the other.
What this means in practice for EVE and the sandbox, is that the more responsible everyone is for their own conduct, the greater freedom all of us can enjoy, commensurately.
It is bad apples like in this case that force restrictions on the rest of us, because of those people abusing the freedom they had in ways that are ultimately irresponsible.
What Erotica1 was doing, has placed a great deal of non-rule violating conduct and "emergent gameplay" in EVE, at risk.
He did that, with the ridiculous extremes he chose to violate the games inherent freedoms with.
This is not some martyr of freedom. Its someone who's irresponsible conduct placed all of our freedom at risk.
This supports why it is good that CCPs statement, though clear on the conditions it does stipulate, still keeps a wide margin of interpretation.
Some of you are perceiving that wide margin as a threat, in terms of being afraid you might fall into it accidentally.
But you are not realising that that wide margin of interpretation also protects you from exactly that, by allowing CCP room to maneuver and interpret on individual cases, whereas if the rules where absolute and very rigidly defined, youd be SOL.
I wouldn't worry that this statement significantly narrows anyone's freedom in the game.
It is however, a reminder that there is such a thing as "too far", and though that point where action exceeds that is intentionally vague, that is exactly to allow greater freedom. But it does come with responsibility attached, meaning you should not deliberately try to push the limits of that vagueness. +1 HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD
+2. Good effect on target.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.03.29 00:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
That's actually all crew served weapons, not just Ma Deuce.
3-5 second burst is the way to go. You only go "rock and roll" in movies.... or if you're suffering from a mid-firefight emotional break, and have totally lost your crap.
(Note: that was the way I learned, but since then, Drill Sergeants aren't allowed to say that, anymore, because Congress told us to be nicer and not remind these kids that they've literally signed up to kill people for money)
When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic... |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.03.29 00:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
The EXACT SAME freedom the guy getting scammed had the ENTIRE TIME he was getting scammed.
That freedom you mean?
Yes. Precisely. But keep beating the dead horse of your lost cause.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.03.29 00:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
So wheres the line?
How many ganks is too many? Define that moderation.
Thats what has been being asked for something like THIRTY ******* PAGES. How hard is this?!
Strikes me that you may not comprehend where you stand, let me clarify that for you.
CCP, the company that owns and operates this game, made a decision to punish some behaviour that they felt was getting out of line. They deliberately did not do this by introducing new rules. They did this by selectively enforcing an interpretation of existing rules. Their interpretation. Of their rules. Within a service they operate. And want to continue operating. Which requires good press, to attract new players and generate new revenue not to mention revenue growth. Nothing they can do will make everyone happy so they did what they think will be the least damaging thing.
You demand clear lines. You demand absolute rules. Very well.
Take up Erotica 1's torch. Become the arch-scumbag that anti-EVE blogs are made of. I'm sure you will find out where the lines are.
But recognize that for all your rage, your demands, your righteous indignation - that battle already ended and the side you are rooting for lost.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2014.03.29 00:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
lol but recognize, that for all my blah blahblah, you missed the part where I already told you where I fall on this and its not MY cause.
roflmao, this is a fun game man
So you're actually just an attention seeking **** stirrer? An emo kid kicking the thread for his infantile jollies and the "hey, look at ME!!!" factor?
I'm cool with that.
Carry on, forum warrior.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2014.03.29 01:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment Right, and Kugu was punished for the very reason you say the publisher of this blog SHOULDNT be punished for. Bringing it to the players' attention.
Ripard was not busting on a CCP employee for misconduct. He was highlighting some pretty deviant behaviour by a group or players. Fundamental difference there.
He decided to go crusading, for his reasons. Many rallied to his flag.
CCP recognized a problem and decided to do something about it. Maybe they knew earlier. Maybe they didn't. Maybe it is not fair. Maybe that is irrelevant as it is their service to operate as they see fit.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2014.03.29 10:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Because - customers who play eve are more important than meta-gaming scammers who never undock and who only work hard at making people quit and harming CCPs reputation?
This.
Rinse, repeat. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2014.03.29 15:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Think of Eve as a guest house. A funky little B&B with a bit of a roach problem in the kitchen.
All this pro-Erotica spew is like a bunch of very vain, self-entitled cockroaches bitching because the lights got switched on for a bit and the king roach got stomped.
They could just scurry off under the cupboards and chill because soon it will be all dark and cozy again.
Instead they stand out there moaning about it, not realizing they ought to be thankful that CCP didn't bust out a can of Raid (e.g. introducing new rules severely restricting or even banning some of their favourite gameplay). Meanwhile, the guests enjoy stomping the roaches, who appear to be too dumb to realize what's happening. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2014.03.29 22:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Seemed to work well for him. I'd like to convince more of my coworkers and friends to try EVE, but if I had to answer the question of "Well, what do you DO in EVE?" with tales of begging in Jita and luring people to the glorious Bonus Round, not only would they not want to try the game but they'd also think I was not someone they want to be around. I continue to be amazed that anyone's willing to defend the practice.
There are plenty of basement dwelling social misfits and closet sociopaths who will defend it.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.03.31 10:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out...
And it still goes on.
EVE = an online entertainment service (a game) operated by CCP.
CCP, as the service provider, makes the rules and interprets them as they see fit. Including, from time to time, banning users who they feel have behaved in a manner that could damage the service or bring their brand into disrepute.
It just so happens that CCP likes to keep the rules pretty fast and loose, to enable all sorts of emergent game play and role play. But, inevitably, there are those who will go too far.
Don't expect somebody to hold your hand and tell you exactly where the boundaries are.
Do pay attention and, when somebody crosses a line and gets banned, remember what they did. That's probably a useful indication of where one or more of the boundaries might be. You might want to adjust your play style, if necessary, to avoid a similar outcome.
If you are too thick/immature/selfish to understand that, please, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
The sheer volume of puerile, self-entitled b.s. evident in this and related threads is staggering.
[EDIT: to specify the quote this is in response to] |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2014.03.31 12:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Danalee wrote:So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better? Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned. Don't fret, If you are too thick/immature/selfish to even consider a fair warning to be in the best interest of everyone involved I implore you to keep sticking your head in the sand. Quoting the good pastor Martin Niem+Śller; First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me. D.
Sounds like you can't handle ambiguity. Maybe when you grow up you will be better able to accept that things won't always be the way you want them to be. So sorry CCP doesn't do things the way you want all the time.
Warning? Never said I am against warnings. Warnings - like any other threat - are worthless without enforcement. Maybe Erotica 1 was warned before. In any case, still irrelevant - complaining about CCP's enforcement of their rules in their game is about as pointless as complaining about the weather.
As for quoting Niemoller - Do you really equivocate the holocaust with CCP banning some videogame assholes from a videogame for being assholes? Are you really that disconnected from reality?
You have an obvious choice. Nobody is forcing you to play.
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2014.03.31 17:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Danalee wrote:For the one thing that is clear in the EULA, Racism: people are actually making excuses for the person who blatantly broke that rule?! D.
Do quote one person excusing racism on this thread or any related thread.
Just one quote. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2014.03.31 18:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I don't compare anything related to eve, teamspeak or even hurt feelings to anything related to the holocaust because that would be SICK, can't imagine who thinks like that.... Oh wait. Thanks. D.
Really? Just after you quoted Niemoller's famous quote about the Holocaust to make your point about how you disapprove of CCP's enforcement actions?
Inconsistent much?
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Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Haytrid wrote:IF Ero1 was banned for out-of-game harassment related to Sohkar and as a result of the "evidence" of the public recording of the bonus room then Sohkar should also be banned for the same reason as a result of the same piece of evidence and that ban should happen right now. . . today.
If Sohkar is not banned than the Ero1 ban should be reversed and warnings issued publicly about any wrongdoings observed by CCP so that there is a clear sense of what was done wrong and that *that action* specifically will not be tolerated in the future or at what point *that action* became unacceptable.
I am personally in the camp that no harassment transpired here whatsoever, towards Sohkar at least, and branding the bonus room as "harassment" is a very dangerous definition and will most certainly continue us down the path of limiting our Eve "freedoms".
This is just another step in destroying the unique Eve Online experience and replacing it with generic rubbish found in all other MMO's.
Seven year player here and I know nobody cares but I am seriously considering un-subbing both of my accounts in protest over this.
Enjoy your new theme park Ripard Teg and followers. Some few years from now you'll be discussing why Eve is such boring spoon-fed mush and you'll wonder at whatever happened to the player inspired emergent game-play. You'll still be in denial that it was you, this issue, and your continuing agenda that is to blame.
Yes, EVE is dying. You know where the door is.
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