Yep, and it's that same guy who has the single highest post count in the thread that got locked, the thread where he tried to internet lawyer a guy into a ban for being toxic to the community.

It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s

Why did you change your post?

Easiest way to prevent real life harassment: Don't be a corp thief, don't AWOX.

Not saying you shouldn't do those ever, but if they know any of your info someone might get ideas. (i've heard people joke around about sending this guy that stole stuff from one of my old corps hatemail/weird stuff in the mail, or possibly flame him on facebook)

"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."

to expand on what mynxee said there is that the person with the position of power in the situation is the one with the responsibility to ensure that it doesn't cross the line. Erotica1 signally failed to do this. She very precisely articulated the philosophical issue with what he did (as opposed to a mere emotional reaction), and expressed clearly what he did wrong. Like yourself, I wanted a good definition of "the line" before being comfortable with CCP proceeding. There it is.

One time incident versus repeat offender. Public apology versus laughing it off.

All the "meta" aspects of the game are more entertaining. EVE on its surface is a terribly uninteresting game. But when you have a collision of personas and narratives, and the meta game is being played in forums, news sites, comms what have you. Thats when the real beauty of EVE is on display.

This game is more about cultivating a persona and finding your place in the universe than it will ever be about shooting red crosses, or mining rocks...because frankly limiting yourself to just that you may as well play minecraft alone in your room.

EVEs beauty is the meta, not its gameplay.

So anyone that kills miners/missioners in high sec is what youre saying. The guys that "farm tears" so Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, all that is forbidden now?

Because "for no reason other than to goad [them], IS the ADVERTISED reason FOR those things.

Ya but thats the thing. My line could be a tiny dot compared to someone like you (hypothetically of course) My judgement says, singing a bunch of songs while being scammed is fine. The victim of the scam must realize they have been had. Should responsibility also not fall up on them to say when enough is enough.

That is what is arbitrary about it and why we had 380 page thread (400 including this) discussing the "line". We all don't have the same limits on what and what is not considered harassment.

If I gank the same miner a dozen times in a night because he hasn't learned how to defend himself, or go find a different place...I see that as taking advantage of someone who is being a moron repeatedly, he might consider it griefing and harassment.

Which one of us is right? There are hundreds of systems he can mine in, and nothing prevents me from killing him every time he undocks. Should I have to say, well I killed him 11 times already I guess ill let him go the 12th time just incase he says im harassing him?

Or does it only apply to TS related things, and at what point does it become the "victims" responsibility to remove themselves from a situation they may find uncomfortable.

We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox. It would be nice to know at what point we reach the limits of the sandbox, so EVERYONE knows where that line is, otherwise it amounts to personal opinion, and that changes from me to you, to the next guy, even CCP Employees have differing individual opinions.

Sorry this may have been over the top but this thread is driving me nuts. People have been saying links of this and links of that and not giving them up.

I actually am trying to look at this from a neutral stand point. I have stated that ero's behavior wasn't great and borderline harrassment where I believe the line was stepped over on a few occasiond. I've just been trying to get my concerns addressed regarding this issue for about 300 pages now and all I get in respond is trolling from "White Knights"

1) You cant tell me that CCP didn't know what has been going on in the bonus round before now. The scam has been all over the forums since I started playing the begining of last year. Hell there is even a thread over in C&P that got locked a few weeks ago that linked this particular bonus round.

So for the 100th time between the 2 threads, Why the out cry now and not a long time ago?

2) Given from a neutral position of not caring either way. Both by the evidence presented here and the other thread (That being the origional recording, The blog post, CCP origional knowledge (Or should have been anyway) and the various replies to the thread (Minus the trolling), I think the only reasonable conclusion is this is a witch hunt.

Seriously as stated earlier in this thread and in the other, both by myself and others this was known issue long before this recording was ever taken. And if CCP wasn't they should have been when ISD was locking those threads. I mean ISD is suposed to be a volunteer group that is an extension to CCP right? Then if this was all god awful and CCP didn't know, why wasn't ISD forwarding copies of those threads to the game masters for investigation?

This is obviously a witch hunt for ero's head by the dude that wrote that blog for personal reasons. He stirred up a **** storm that incited a riot not only be alot of the eve community, but other gaming communities as well. Then CCP was pretty much forced into actioning ero's account weather they wanted to or not. This probably got the victims account actioned as well too...

If I am wrong I'm all ears for any counter proof you may have that doesn't involve taking a goons word for it. Its all I have been after this entire thread. Instead I end up getting stuck in circular arguments with everyone.

Not willfull ignorance.

People want a clear line so they can dance right up to it, Xenos paradox style

And I have to say, having sat through pages and pages of tripe about the tears being shed for the victims of harrassment and the tears soon to be shed by those who favour vaguely civilized behaviour IRL the irony (in the modern rather than classical sense) is bitterly amusing here given the tears being shed by folks who want a line drawn in the sand so they can walk just one side of it be be not-quite-abhorrent-enough-to-ban.

Seriously, as with most of life, if the answer to "will I get into deep trouble for doing this?" is "I don't know". They the response should probably be not to do it. Or expect to suffer the consequences. Seriously - is that so hard a concept? Or is it just to gritty a thought that you have to cope with a little bit of grey rather than black or white?

CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.

Can I summarize your posts thusly:

"If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner"

That distill it all down?

I think you're confusing your definition of harrassment with CCPs. Skirt your's and there's no problem. Skirt CCPs and you risk banning. Those are the EULA and ToS you've singed up to and if you want to risk violating them in the eyes of CCP and I'm not to argue that you shouldn't. You know the consequences and if you didn't before then this incident has been a reminder/useful prompt. If you don't agree those rules you've basically got a range of choices:

1. ***** about it uselessly here (and provide those that are interested in harvesting your tears amusement - no, I'm not one of them).
2. Speak to CCP and see if you can persuade them to change their mind.
3. Speak to your CSM representatives and see if you can persuade them to speak to CCP on your behalf.
4. Stand for CSM, get elected and speak to CCP direct.
5. Take your chances with the EULA/ToS and see if you get banned.
6. HTFU and accept that this is CCP's game and they make the rules and they decide how to articulate them.
7. Find a game more to your liking.

So... it this a thread to ***** for likes now?

Well trolling exercise too.

Tell you what.

Write up your questions, and address them to CCP directly.

You are asking people who try to answer them, but are not actually in any position to do so.
Hence, everything they answer, is just their opinion.

Write em up and address them to CCP.

Are a lot of messages getting deleted or something? I've been an EVE player for a couple of years, but this is my first full week actually posting on the forums.